FR: Double Booked on a Saturday Night...here we go!

[guru1000]

A hot girl on a first date told you to go tell hell 4 times in one hour, ends up taking off her clothes and having sex why you 270 min later? Bro something doesn't sound right.

Usually if the girl rejects you the first time and you try again, she may call the cops to make arrest. I understand the aggressiveness to "push for the bang" and "be a man" and stuff, but you have to be careful. If the girl is having an off day or is a little annoyed at anything, you could end up with criminal record.

Good topic, probably deserving of its own thread. I came across this dynamic about a year ago.

I used to wait till the end of the date for the kiss. And social conventions would state that at the end of the date, the girl is to expect the kiss. This is normal behavior, right? But, what if you are on a date, and out of seemly nowhere, unrelated to the convo, you try to kiss the girl?

Most would think if a girl is attracted to you, she will kiss you almost immediately. I can tell you, unequivocally, that this is not the case.

Four months ago, I was on a date. We were in a bar, and the girl and I were sitting down facing each other. Her legs were together, closed inside my legs which were around her. She was in close proximity. Our heads were 6-8 inches apart. I had my hands on her legs, rubbing her legs, even rubbed her azz twice. I go in for the kiss. She pulls her head back. She does not move though and continues sitting in close proximity. I continue rubbing her legs. Ten minutes later, I go for the kiss again, and she pulls back. I ask her, “Do you want to go?” She states no.

So I continue the date, and don’t attempt to kiss her till the end. At the end of the date, I go for the kiss, she finally accedes with a peck. She is one of my plates today. (Ya, I know Guru didn’t attempt to fvck her. We all have off days)

This dynamic has happened to me at least 6-7 times this year alone. I often go for the kiss relatively early to get the wheels in motion. With the girl from this weekend, I went in for the kiss FOUR times in one hour. The first time, she pulls back, and says “No” or “Not yet.” I respond with, “Who said I was trying to kiss you?” LOL. My next three attempts, she pulls back. After three drinks, she explains to me that she didn’t want to seem "easy" compared to other girls. That makes a bit of sense, as when I’m buzzed, I talk too much, and told her every girl wants me. LOL.

But I think the truth of why women pull back, even though they are attracted to you and besides the ASD, is they are just not ready. Women are not hard-wired like men. We find a hot girl. We want to kiss her off the bat. Such is not in the case with ALL women. Some women need to be feel comfortable and safe. Some women want to know if you are going to stick around or if you are looking for the quick bang. Some girls TEST you. Others have “rules.” There can be many reasons. BUT, what matters, is that if your kiss attempts are rejected, and her proximity remains close (and she is not running out of there, lol), you keep trying.

Now if a girl rejects a kiss attempt at the end of the date, I would no longer pursue her. THE END. Although, my ex-wife rejected my kiss attempt on the first date. And, I was married to her for five years. But then again, I am divorced too, lol.

Normally, what I do now if a girl rejects my kiss attempts is I will go about trying to fvck her and leave the kiss out of the escalation. Once I have escalated to fingering her—all of a sudden—now she wants to kiss. Hey, who needs the kiss then, right?

I actually have been on two dates where my going for the bang backfired and the chick decided i was only in it for sex and that i had no class and backed off. so its not like its a never going to happen sort of thing.

but these are not women you want anything to do with anyways probably.

Alex, reminds me of this post. When I was 25, I could not pull off half the shvt I pull off today. It’s all about social acuity and development. This comes with experience. I doubt any girl I go out with today could state I am classless, as I am a class act. Don’t let those two incidents deter you. Keep attempting. This is what builds social confidence and acumen.

On a side note: The age difference might also be a contributing factor. I usually date 10-15 years younger. So the dynamic is a little different, whereas rather than the women looking at me as a “thirsty” kid, they might think “this is what powerful men of his age do.” It’s the “godfather” dynamic I refer to in several of my other posts.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Ok Guru, I'd like to try an experiment. It appears she might be either intimidated by my aggressiveness or hesitant due to her thinking I bang all women I go out with on the first date. When she asked me "Do I always sleep with women on first dates" I answered "No not always" and she said "I don't believe you".

Worth noting she is relatively inexperienced. Said got married young, was with him 11 years and then dated her ex for 3 years. Claims only been with 3 guys total. Said her ex boyfriend dumped her and she has no idea why, he just ended it one day and I think she thinks I am going to end up hurting her if she continues seeing me. That's the read I'm getting on the situation.

The experiment is seeing if I can get her to chase. Or at least easing her mind over her perception of me. I don't really care what happens in the end so I'm open to any suggestions to see what happens...if it's possible to change her mind and if so how. This can be an open experiment to test theories out I suppose...

What Ya got for me Guru?

 

[guru1000]

Kind of reminds me of this chick. If they've been hurt, give them love. See the quote below. It would be much more effective in person, rather than text.

What happened in the text exchange from last night?

Some say that its not possible to seduce EVERY girl, as each has disparate types. I used to share this philosophy, but with experience, my thoughts have changed.

Any DJ despite his looks could technically (meaning under the right circumstance) secure any girl--at least for the short-term. For example, if a girl has daddy issues, and you have Daddy game (appearing as a father figure), she will be drawn to you. If a girl is accustomed only to guys fawning over her, and you are indifferent, she will be drawn to you. If a girl has been played by other Casanovas who never took her seriously, and you tell her you love her because she is special, she will be drawn to you.

The key is to understand your audience. The conundrum with common PUA tactics is that it assumes that one game fits all. This is a fallacy. A real Casanova understands this concept of audience: Ask questions about her past; read facial expressions and body language; decipher what makes that specific girl tick; decipher what she is missing; and give it to her.

Notice with the first girl I banged Sat night, I fed her the "love and marry" game. I sensed based on her stories and attitude that despite her looks, she had been played hard and was seeking a man to love her and care for her for who she is. And that is exactly what I fed her.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Kind of reminds me of this chick. You give them what they need. If they've been hurt, give them love. It would be much more effective in person, rather than text.

What happened in the text exchange from last night?

Inside joke with the goat milking...she asked what I did and I told her I was in the family business and she was like what's that and I told her I milked goats for a living....kept it up for a while before I couldn't hold back the laugh...

Me: Kind of warm out here in the barn milking these goats today, lol....Saw a dump truck with flashing lights today and it reminded me of you, (name)

Her: Yeah it was a warm one. A dump truck huh. Lol. How were the goats today?

Me: Yup...a dump truck...you know...like the one that rides around mall parking lots at 1 am and interrupts people in cars, hahaha...Goats were pretty wild yesterday. How's your morning going?

Her: Yeah I know was just messing with u. Lol. Wild goats huh. Maybe bc of the full moon. Lol. Going good girls r now both at school. My niece I pick up at 10 this week. So one hour for me to clean and do stuff around the house while I am not being bothered.

Me: Haha...it must have been that full moon...well that's always a plus...I had fun spending time with you Saturday, you seem like a really cool person, I'd like to do it again sometime...what night are you available this week to do that?

Her: None this week. Will have the girls. And with school back in session I will be pretty busy during the week. By busy I mean putting them to bed by 8&9. Can't really out them to bed and then head out. Lol.

No response from me...and that's what I figured, she needs reassurance from me that I'm not going to hit and run, and I agree it's better in person, but then it becomes how to get her out in person again.

 

[ubercat]

Interesting thread. Think this is OT. Got this skittish girl I thought was playing games. But in an article she wrote said she was an abuse survivor.

So I ve agreed to drinks at night becoming a brunch date. She tried to organise that too but I said no and set it up. Don't really care how this goes so would like to practice escalating on first date but obviously this one s probably a mine field.

So going to try:

General setup:

Get there early stakeout a nice table in the courtyard
At least befriend the staff so I know a couple of names best case join somebody at their table.
Fallback is to have some work with me so I at least establish that busy guy vibe

Kino

the half hug and kiss on cheek. But not sure what next. Haven't seen ppl even couples kissing in cafes at brekky.

Or do I try and suggest a walk for ice cream or in park. Offer her my arm hold hands across road etc and go for the kiss somewhere more private.

 

[guru1000]

BITG, don't like it. Second date set-ups should be smooth and easy. NO token resistance. She rejects your offer and no counter-offer?

I would just respond, "Gotcha. You seem to have a lot on your plate. If your schedule frees up, let me know, and we'll schedule something then."

She jacked you off and you fingered her. You texted her the very next day, right? Not enough time for buyers remorse to prompt her aversion. Something is missing.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

BITG, don't like it. Second date set-ups should be smooth and easy. NO token resistance. She rejects your offer and no counter-offer?

I would just respond, "Gotcha. You seem to have a lot on your plate. If your schedule frees up, let me know, and we'll schedule something then."

She jacked you off and you fingered her. You texted her the very next day, right? Not enough time for buyers remorse to prompt her aversion. Something is missing.

No, we met Saturday night and I texted her Monday evening around 6:30. And yeah, that's the obvious thing to say, but that doesn't really teach us anything new about how to turn this in our favor. Let's think out of the box on this one.

 

[stevo]

. . .

 

[guru1000]

BITG, it's one thing to game a girl you never met to meet you, to overcome the ASD defense, or even to jack up her IL during the first date. But, her response appears to be one of crashing interest following the first date, not so much buyer's remorse.

It's kind of like saying,"Hey, my gf of one year doesn't want to date anymore. What can I tell her to make her date me."

My answer would be the same. Walk away.

She elected not to entertain the second date. Maybe you were a sexual beast that she was attracted to (hence the physicality), but not her type by profession or financially. She has kids (btw I never date women with kids). Maybe she is looking for beta bucks or a daddy. I don't know enough about you, her, or the ancillary details of the date to analyze the situation accurately. Something is missing; that's for sure. What do you do btw? And did you have any convo about your profession? How old is she? What's her nationality/background? Is she looking for a "better" life? Was her ex-hubby wealthy? How many kids? Need some details.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

BITG, it's one thing to game a girl you never met to meet you, to overcome the ASD defense, or even to jack up her IL during the first date. But, her response appears to be one of crashing interest following the first date, not so much buyer's remorse.

It's kind of like saying,"Hey, my gf of one year doesn't want to date anymore. What can I tell her to make her date me."

My answer would be the same. Walk away.

She elected not to entertain the second date. Maybe you were a sexual beast that she was attracted to (hence the physicality), but not her type by profession or financially. She has kids (btw I never date women with kids). Maybe she is looking for beta bucks or a daddy. I don't know enough about you, her, or the ancillary details of the date to analyze the situation accurately. Something is missing; that's for sure. What do you do btw? And did you have any convo about your profession? How old is she? What's her nationality/background? Is she looking for a "better" life? Was her ex-hubby wealthy? How many kids? Need some details.

She mentioned that I reminded her of her ex boyfriend a few times during the conversation, the one who dumped her without reason she claims after 3 years with no warning. My gut tells me she thinks I only want to fvck her, and will then bounce on her for someone else or cheat on her, hence her asking me all the questions about "do i always do this on the first date", "do I cheat on women", etc...then saying "I don't believe you" when I told her I didn't. Now that I think back she asked me how long my last relationship was and who ended it. I told her that I ended it and she wanted to know why and I wouldn't get into details about it. So if I had to bet, I think she sees me as potentially doing the same thing or showing the same patterns as her last boyfriend that dumped her had. If I had to bet.

I don't think she trusted my motives, which fits the research that women want to fvck muscular guys but don't trust them for a relationship because they think they will cheat on them. Maybe she didn't think she was good enough for me and I would find someone better. I don't know. I definitely got the sense she thought I wasn't trustworthy, from her line of questioning...unsure if it was something I projected or her own insecurities.

I'm not rich by any means, but I do well enough. I own my own house and a decent car. She is 32. She is American, don't think any of the guys she dated or ex husband was wealthy.


UPDATE: She just texted me again "Maybe the weekend. I have to see if I can find someone to watch my niece and I can let you know."

Which is pretty much the same thing she texted me before our first meetup when I asked when she'd be free to grab a drink and I told her "OK, let me know and I'll see what I can do" and she then texted me the next day she found someone....things that make you go hmmmmm....

 

[guru1000]

OK. When she mentioned kids, I got the "hypergamy" red lights. But it seems the weakness is not in your stature.

If your intuition is correct, and she is feeling "buyers remorse" or afraid she will be used and discarded, give her a call tomorrow. You must build rapport. Show her love. Give her beta throws. Throw in:

"You've been on my mind"
"I could def see myself dating a girl like you long-term"
"You're an awesome girl"
"I'm looking for a long-term relationship"
"I'm looking to get married, and raise a family" (In a matter-of-fact statement)

Give her comfort. If your alphaness is her hang-up, mitigate with betaness.


^^ This was written before your "UPDATE." I will leave the above for others in similar over-alpha'ed predicaments. If the date is set, it's set. Leave it alone until the next date. On your next date, beta-ize her.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

OK. When she mentioned kids, I got the "hypergamy" red lights. But it seems the weakness is not in your stature.

If your intuition is correct, and she is feeling "buyers remorse" or afraid she will be used and discarded, give her a call tomorrow. You must build rapport. Show her love. Give her beta throws. Throw in:

"You've been on my mind"
"I could def see myself dating a girl like you long-term"
"You're an awesome girl"
"I'm looking for a long-term relationship"
"I'm looking to get married, and raise a family" (In a matter-of-fact statement)

Give her comfort. If your alphaness is her hang-up, mitigate with betaness.


^^ This was written before your "UPDATE." I will leave the above for others in similar over-alpha'ed predicaments. If the date is set, it's set. Leave it alone until the next date. On your next date, beta-ize her.

I assume the ideal move would have been to realize and be cognizant of what was happening in-date and then react via the above methods while it was going on to prevent any of the fears from arising post date.

I'll also assume the response to that text would be the same one that's already worked once.

 

[guru1000]

I'm starting to get a better feel for you BITG. You over-alpha these chicks. Which is great to sexualize them. But more importantly is, as you say, cognizance of the audience.

Some chicks need beta.
Some chicks need alpha.
Some chicks need love.
Some chicks need indifference.
Some chicks need comfort.
Some chicks need instability.
Etc.

That's the only problem with basic DJ mantras. They take into account neither the DJ nor the target. Every situation, every DJ, every girl is unique. A true DJ analyzes the target and the situation accurately, and adjusts his game accordingly.

Find their needs. Then sell the product in accordance with those needs.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm starting to get a better feel for you BITG. You over-alpha these chicks. Which is great to sexualize them. But more importantly is, as you say, cognizance of the audience.

Some chicks need beta.
Some chicks need alpha.
Some chicks need love.
Some chicks need indifference.
Some chicks need comfort.
Some chicks need instability.
Etc.

That's the only problem with basic DJ mantras. They take into account neither the DJ nor the target. Every situation, every DJ, every girl is unique. A true DJ analyzes the target and the situation accurately, and adjusts his game accordingly.

Find their needs. Then sell the product in accordance with those needs.

Fvckin Tren....lol

Forget to mention she seems pretty simple...minimal makeup, no jewelry, no nail color...low maintenance. She told me she thinks I'm high maintenance, at least much higher than she is. She seems kind of naive actually.

Going to be out of town this weekend, so it's not going to work anyway...what's the play here Guru? Haven't responded yet, do I let it sit til I get back and then call with the "I've been thinking of you" blah blah blah or call before I leave with that?

 

[guru1000]

With space, hang-ups fester, infatuation blossoms. Always address the hang-up (next time I'm sure you will while on the first date).

Call tonight, throw one or two beta hooks to dismantle, tell her you're busy this weekend, and schedule for a specific night next week.

If she responds with babysitter nonsense for that day, respond with, "OK, let me know."

Now you dismantled her inhibition. The onus is now on her to make this work. No longer yours. This will be your last communication until she reaches out to you or until the date.

Keep us posted.

BTW: When she texted you yesterday to schedule for the weekend, was that in response to your, "You seem to have a lot on your plate" text --or--in response to your non-response from the previous day?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

With space, hang-ups fester, infatuation blossoms. Always address the hang-up (next time I'm sure you will while on the first date).

Call tonight, throw one or two beta hooks to dismantle, tell her you're busy this weekend, and schedule for a specific night next week.

If she responds with babysitter nonsense for that day, respond with, "OK, let me know."

Now you dismantled her inhibition. The onus is now on her to make this work. No longer yours. This will be your last communication until she reaches out to you or until the date.

Keep us posted.

BTW: When she texted you yesterday to schedule for the weekend, was that in response to your, "You seem to have a lot on your plate" text --or--in response to your non-response from the previous day?

Got out of work late...the call will have to wait til tomorrow.

Her text was in response to no response from me...still haven't responded, will call tomorrow after I get out of work. Let's see if I can win a beta grammy. I might have to puke afterwards, lol.

 

[zekko]

Let's see if I can win a beta grammy. I might have to puke afterwards, lol.

Wow, look at this alpha place. Looking toward beta game to try to pull some pvssy out of the hat.

You hardcore "gamer" types will disagree, but I prefer to be myself and let the chips fall where they may. If a chick likes me for me, great. If not, forget her.

 

[guru1000]

If a chick likes me for me, great. If not, forget her.

This is the height of hubris. If you are unwilling to change, because you are "perfect" and "omnipotent," then what's your purpose? Might as well kill yourself then. Isn't this the "purpose" of life, to evolve?

One must must be humble, open-minded, and willing to change to evolve. And yes, even us GREAT ones.

 

[zekko]

This is the height of hubris. If you are unwilling to change, because you are "perfect" and "omnipotent," then what's your purpose?

I'm not unwilling to change, and I'm far from perfect. I'm all for self improvement.
But that change has to be consistent with my own convictions.

I do know guys who play the "chameleon" with women, lie to them about their jobs, their age, what they do for fun, etc. I don't deny that this tactic can be used in a successful way. If that works for you, great. It's just not for me.

 

[guru1000]

I'm not unwilling to change, and I'm far from perfect. I'm all for self improvement.
But that change has to be consistent with my own convictions.

Your convictions are also a product of your conditioning.

Do you re-evaluate your convictions periodically, and are you convictions "perfect"--or--are you willing to alter these convictions based on other constructive insights that are brought into your awareness?