Fork in the road

[Anticus13]

BLUF: blue pill, serial monogamist on 2nd marriage with three kids, sexual dead bed where the scales have been removed from my eyes by The Rationale Male (and other books/blogs afterwards) to see purple and red and other colors…now the proverbial: what do I do with that?!

Looking at similar posts and threads but I want my own brutal readout of my current reality. I believe I have two choices:

1. Ethically non-monogamous marriage. I’m not the infidelity-type husband so if I stay married I know desire and sex in a relationship is my requirement. Spinning plates makes sense if I wasn’t already in the matrix. I wish I knew monogamy should have never been goal. Wish in one hand and **** in the other…see which one fills up first though. Risks if I broach this with her, may lead to her initiating option 2 below on her terms.

2. Move on. I don’t want shared custody of my kids…part time dad…but reconstructing desire has limited to no likelihood. After consultation with a divorce attorney, the female-slanted court system and the draconian conservative US state we reside, alimony/child support/my retirement split will devastate me financially. Don’t mind “living in a van down by the river” if my mojo and happiness return though.

Unleash the truth.

 

[KirthWGersen]

One other option is to get a posting/job abroad in a jurisdiction with fairer divorce laws (some countries in Europe). Make sure you are the first to file after living there for six months and the divorce will go according to local law.

If you don't want share custody, you are going to have to pay a significant amount to look after your children. There really is no honourable way out of that.

 

[BeExcellent]

There are 2 questions that arise in my mind reading your post.

1. What do you really want in the context of the marriage? In a perfect world do you resolve the dead bed and stay together? What is it ideally that you desire as an outcome?

2. How exactly did you arrive at this juncture? I know you said blue pill mindset…but what are some specifics? The reason this is important is that even if you remove yourself from the marriage you are still you in any interaction with any other woman.

A final question: How do you feel about conflict and about standing up for your needs? Aversion to conflict is often a root cause of situations that evolve into what you are experiencing. That aversion is driven by fear (so is your aversion to leaving, you are afraid of the possible outcomes.)

Take a hard look at what you want and also at how fear is motivating you.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

BLUF: blue pill, serial monogamist on 2nd marriage with three kids, sexual dead bed where the scales have been removed from my eyes by The Rationale Male (and other books/blogs afterwards) to see purple and red and other colors…now the proverbial: what do I do with that?!

Looking at similar posts and threads but I want my own brutal readout of my current reality. I believe I have two choices:

1. Ethically non-monogamous marriage. I’m not the infidelity-type husband so if I stay married I know desire and sex in a relationship is my requirement. Spinning plates makes sense if I wasn’t already in the matrix. I wish I knew monogamy should have never been goal. Wish in one hand and **** in the other…see which one fills up first though. Risks if I broach this with her, may lead to her initiating option 2 below on her terms.

2. Move on. I don’t want shared custody of my kids…part time dad…but reconstructing desire has limited to no likelihood. After consultation with a divorce attorney, the female-slanted court system and the draconian conservative US state we reside, alimony/child support/my retirement split will devastate me financially. Don’t mind “living in a van down by the river” if my mojo and happiness return though.

Unleash the truth.

Monogamy is not the issue per se. If anything I do not believe in open relationships. They are unrealistic and at the core perverse. However, there is definitely a flaw in the judicial system when it comes to divorce, child custody, and child support. Just like there is with the subject of sexual assault. It is simply biased.

The issue has to do with marriage as an institution. There is an absurd belief that in marriage people are to expected to fulfill several roles as a partner: Best friend, lover, intimate partner, etc, etc, etc. This often results in a realistic amount of pressure on both sides and ultimately losing our individuality and in return infecting the relationship with comfort, negotiated desire, and moral ties.

Remember that everytime you enter or agree to a relationship you must remain your own self, and this includes your personal assets. What this means is also taking legal actions to protect those assets. Commonly referred as a prenub.

The issue is that for most women (not all) a prenub is a sign of mistrust and disrespect. At least they have been conditioned to think so, because at the end of the day if things go sour, they will be favored in a court of law unless you have tangible proof she is responsible for the demise of the marriage, and especially if they are children involved.

Moral of the story, do not be jaded about committing to someone (it is not blue pill if building a life with someone is in your plans and it aligns with your current life situation and belief system), but take steps to make sure your future looks bright and secure. Keep your individuality.


Modern Man Advice

 

[xuzaki]

You're fortunate to have come across the Rational Male. It opened my eyes a few years back.

Concerning the financial side, consider quietly preparing for a messy divorce. For myself, I would try moving assets to either: a trusted family member's legal ownership; or a secret account like a privacy-based crypto where you hold the private keys rather than hosting it with a broker.

One other option is to get a posting/job abroad in a jurisdiction with fairer divorce laws (some countries in Europe). Make sure you are the first to file after living there for six months and the divorce will go according to local law.

If this is true, it's something to consider. It could be a legal savior as well as an adventure to open a new chapter for you. Though I suspect you might still be bound by US law.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Yeah, you need to address the issues, the fact that your coming to us instead of going to your wife is unfortunately telling about this situation already, your hesitation to just communicate means your both either swamped with the kids or something else but either way I know very few women who just go without in any situation, especially if it was never that way before.

I have never been married, I don't have kids, but in terms of how she is gonna move, I think this largely depends on her lifestyle and age, age and LF to me means you can somewhat gauge her options outside of you as well as if those options can offer a better lifestyle, which based on the court system is almost guaranteed to be the case since shell have dual income between you and her own.

 

[fenix2021]

You kinda don't spell out what is it that YOU want. You don't want joint custody, then what? You want full custody? Why, is she a bad mom (very unlikely)? Kids need you and her and there is this thing called uncontested divorce. You split assets the way you both see as fair (she get the minivan, you get the sports car) then she gets percentage of your gross income as child support. Unless you are a Rockefeller, you DO want decent living for your kids, so what's the problem? Find a scenario where you co-parent (trust me, when you don't see your kid every day your love for them grows and you start valuing time with them that much more). Also don't go divorce right away but rather start with separation - then both of you might discover that being separated (or divorced) is actually a better option and then there won't be a hurt grudge.

 

[Anticus13]

One other option is to get a posting/job abroad in a jurisdiction with fairer divorce laws (some countries in Europe). Make sure you are the first to file after living there for six months and the divorce will go according to local law.

If you don't want share custody, you are going to have to pay a significant amount to look after your children. There really is no honourable way out of that.

That is absolutely new information. Thank you for additional data to make an informed decision.

I was erring on the side of brevity on my post...it has created confusion.

I do not want to be a part time dad, hence, as is so typical with others, I stay in a relationship with unfulfilled passion. Negotiating desire is not a contract I want to continue...continued if this...then that. However, if I travel the road of seeking what I want for me (self care, not selfish), I lose being much of fatherhood. To use a trite truism, you can tell what's important to a man by two things: his checking account and his calendar. The importance of my fatherhood are negatively impacted by the importance of me.

 

[Anticus13]

There are 2 questions that arise in my mind reading your post.

1. What do you really want in the context of the marriage? In a perfect world do you resolve the dead bed and stay together? What is it ideally that you desire as an outcome?

A: Redundantly, I wish I knew then what I know now. I would not want marriage. That being said, the brutal facts of my current reality is reconstructing desire has limited to no chance of success. I have tried to refocus on my premarital activities (gun ranges, former military colleagues, four-wheeling, motorcycles) which admittedly I had suspended in large part since we got married. I have tried direct communication about my needs. I have tried couples counseling, but honestly all the recommendations from the counselor fell flat (my grandmother used to say when gauging someone's intentions,"Watch only movement"...there was none).

2. How exactly did you arrive at this juncture? I know you said blue pill mindset…but what are some specifics? The reason this is important is that even if you remove yourself from the marriage you are still you in any interaction with any other woman.

A: I did not know the categories or definitions, but evaluating me before (high Alpha, former combat tested cop, fit, driven, dominant, assertive) and me now...I am a self confessed Beta. However, your point is exceptionally well made.

A final question: How do you feel about conflict and about standing up for your needs? Aversion to conflict is often a root cause of situations that evolve into what you are experiencing. That aversion is driven by fear (so is your aversion to leaving, you are afraid of the possible outcomes.)

A: I default aggressive. My direct communication style, and arguably over command presence, has exacerbated the situation. Yes it gives me pause to lose access to my kids and 75% of my accumulated coins if I push her too hard, but I have zero aversion to standing up.

Take a hard look at what you want and also at how fear is motivating you.

 

[Anticus13]

Monogamy is not the issue per se. If anything I do not believe in open relationships. They are unrealistic and at the core perverse. However, there is definitely a flaw in the judicial system when it comes to divorce, child custody, and child support. Just like there is with the subject of sexual assault. It is simply biased.

A: Noted, agreed and appreciated.

The issue has to do with marriage as an institution. There is an absurd belief that in marriage people are to expected to fulfill several roles as a partner: Best friend, lover, intimate partner, etc, etc, etc. This often results in a realistic amount of pressure on both sides and ultimately losing our individuality and in return infecting the relationship with comfort, negotiated desire, and moral ties.

Remember that everytime you enter or agree to a relationship you must remain your own self, and this includes your personal assets. What this means is also taking legal actions to protect those assets. Commonly referred as a prenub.

A: As responded in a post just previous to yours, I know now that the "one-itus" and gravitational pull to her resulted in my sacrificing my own self. Two dynamics that might be germane....she is ten years younger and we have been married eight years, so a prenuptial agreement at this point is a no go.

The issue is that for most women (not all) a prenub is a sign of mistrust and disrespect. At least they have been conditioned to think so, because at the end of the day if things go sour, they will be favored in a court of law unless you have tangible proof she is responsible for the demise of the marriage, and especially if they are children involved.

Moral of the story, do not be jaded about committing to someone (it is not blue pill if building a life with someone is in your plans and it aligns with your current life situation and belief system), but take steps to make sure your future looks bright and secure. Keep your individuality.


Modern Man Advice

 

[Anticus13]

Yeah, you need to address the issues, the fact that your coming to us instead of going to your wife is unfortunately telling about this situation already, your hesitation to just communicate means your both either swamped with the kids or something else but either way I know very few women who just go without in any situation, especially if it was never that way before.

I have never been married, I don't have kids, but in terms of how she is gonna move, I think this largely depends on her lifestyle and age, age and LF to me means you can somewhat gauge her options outside of you as well as if those options can offer a better lifestyle, which based on the court system is almost guaranteed to be the case since shell have dual income between you and her own.

Realizing it is impossible to catch all nuance and understanding in two paragraph post, I have gone to her. This is not seeking you in lieu of, but rather in addition to. Two years of campaigns, angles, conversations and my own journey of discovery. I found truth in the Rationale Male as part of my research and discovery. Seeking this forum was an attempt to logic through and determine my path.

And to be crystal clear, I am not a fortune teller, but everything I know about her and the court system in NC, I am f***** financially and likely custody.

 

[Anticus13]

You kinda don't spell out what is it that YOU want. You don't want joint custody, then what? You want full custody? Why, is she a bad mom (very unlikely)? Kids need you and her and there is this thing called uncontested divorce. You split assets the way you both see as fair (she get the minivan, you get the sports car) then she gets percentage of your gross income as child support. Unless you are a Rockefeller, you DO want decent living for your kids, so what's the problem? Find a scenario where you co-parent (trust me, when you don't see your kid every day your love for them grows and you start valuing time with them that much more). Also don't go divorce right away but rather start with separation - then both of you might discover that being separated (or divorced) is actually a better option and then there won't be a hurt grudge.

I own that lack of clarity in the OP. I just know that I have full custody and access now. If I move on, the stats in the US and significantly worse in NC, is that I will not have custody, will pay child support, and likely heavy alimony, even in a dual income family. For f*** sake yes, I want to provide for the kids. They are my heart and my legacy. The reality is, with all due respect, if you really truly believe the divorce law in the US are somehow even remotely equal, you are misinformed. According to the U. S Census, women win primary custody 83% of the time yet make up 48% of the workforce. It has not changed in 30+ years. Further its never about proving who the better parent is, you have to prove the mom is unfit...not just a bad parent, an unfit parent. And she is not. And I would never smear her reputation as such.

I appreciate your observations on the co-parenting scenario success. That is encouraging and solace.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Realizing it is impossible to catch all nuance and understanding in two paragraph post, I have gone to her. This is not seeking you in lieu of, but rather in addition to. Two years of campaigns, angles, conversations and my own journey of discovery. I found truth in the Rationale Male as part of my research and discovery. Seeking this forum was an attempt to logic through and determine my path.

And to be crystal clear, I am not a fortune teller, but everything I know about her and the court system in NC, I am f***** financially and likely custody.

She just shrugged you off?

 

[SW15]

2. Move on. I don’t want shared custody of my kids…part time dad…but reconstructing desire has limited to no likelihood. After consultation with a divorce attorney, the female-slanted court system and the draconian conservative US state we reside, alimony/child support/my retirement split will devastate me financially. Don’t mind “living in a van down by the river” if my mojo and happiness return though.

The more feasible option. At 52, the financial settlement from this divorce is likely to impact your retirement and your quality of life within retirement. Living in a van down by the river will affect your ability to get new women, both for short term casual sex and for longer term relationships. I don't think it is in your best interests to marry again with 2 failed marriages to your name.

 

[Black Widow Void]

You sound very ethical. Also, a man that prioritizes his children's well being deserves nothing but my respect.

Before walking on (what you may perceive as) "greener grass"... have you thought about marriage counseling?

If you are miserably married, I can only imagine that typical attitudes within this forum will only compound this misery. I'm sure that these are difficult times. Try not to allow outside forces (male strangers on the internet) to influence your decisions.

Maybe the grass will be greener or maybe not. Judging by your character, something tells me that you'll feel better about yourself and the outcome... if you can one day look back on this without any personal regrets.

 

[xuzaki]

have you thought about marriage counseling?

OP mentions above he tried it. Rational Male says its usually bs, and I agree. I know one professional marriage counselor, a guy, and like most guys he is thoroughly blue-pill. Even if you got a red-pill counselor, I'd think that simply being there sends the wife the message that you can't handle her. A single-person man-to-man coaching sounds better, though I'd be leary of most coaches.

I can only imagine that typical attitudes within this forum will only compound this misery. I'm sure that these are difficult times. Try not to allow outside forces (male strangers on the internet) to influence your decisions.

I also see a lot of unnecessary negative outlooks on SoSuave, somewhat black pill and what I suspect to be low-end guys complaining about girls instead of looking at their own failures (i.e. girls aren't stable enough for LTRs, etc). However, there is also a lot of gold from "strangers on the internet", like Pook and Rollo and Roissy and many others. I would say to hear what the strangers say, while always letting your own judgement determine your actions.

 

[fenix2021]

I'm at the begging of my own amicable divorce so maybe i'm holding a live grande in my hand that's about to go off or... so basically you can take my advice up to this point.
Marriage counseling with a good chancellor WORKS. It helps both parties realize that indeed divorce might be the best solution and so they are less bitter, sad and angry about the outcome. We are all broken in some way so a good cancelling will set you on your own journey of clarity.
I still don't know OP's goals. Is it to get full custody of the kids or just completely relinquish it?? Either outcome is terrible for the kids. If you gonna split you will want what's best for kids, no?

 

[Black Widow Void]

xuzaki You raise good points. Do keep in mind that my posting was an attempt to offer some sort of balance on a forum that (I'm sure you'll agree) is tipped more so on the biased and negative side.

It's only when we can see both sides of a situation, that we can weigh out the options and make a better informed decision.