For those who agonize over the difficulty of dating sites

[Hair stylist]

I personally have never tried any dating sites (unless myspace counts), but i have quite a few friends who have taken it up "to get some easy *****" as they so eloquently put it. My one friend, who isnt a bad looking guy and has a good job and all the qualities of a good person, calls me real bummed out the other night, something he has never done, and tells me that he has messaged like 40 women on this dating site (plenty of fish i think) and almost all of them didnt message him back, and the ones that did were rude and negative, one going to far as to call him an "ugly piece of ****". He was pretty upset and was asking me what to do, and i was shocked that this would get to him so badly. He does not have much problem meeting women in the real world, so this was a slap in the face to him and he had no idea what to do. He isnt the only one, i know a lot of people who complain how hard it is for males in online dating, but they dont know why. Heres what i think it is.

Online it is impossible to show the things about you that words cant say. Charm, wit, good vibes, they are all lost online. The only thing that differentiates profiles really are the pictures. Theres no chance whatsoever for a connection online because you are not standing face to face with the person. A lot of people dont take into account also that, unfortunatly, unnatractive or generally nasty women will make profiles on these sites and have power trips and treat everyone like a piece of garbage because they CAN. The internet allows them to PRETEND they are the last word in woman. So if you get negative messages online or you are ignored, you just CANT take it personally. Unfortunatly, a lot of people seem to get very upset about it. There is NO substitute for real life approaches. Not even close.

Hope this helps

 

[Kaim Argonar]

So ****ing true, thanks for this post

 

[penkitten]

good post

 

[SunnyD]

I personally have never tried any dating sites (unless myspace counts), but i have quite a few friends who have taken it up "to get some easy *****" as they so eloquently put it. My one friend, who isnt a bad looking guy and has a good job and all the qualities of a good person, calls me real bummed out the other night, something he has never done, and tells me that he has messaged like 40 women on this dating site (plenty of fish i think) and almost all of them didnt message him back, and the ones that did were rude and negative, one going to far as to call him an "ugly piece of ****". He was pretty upset and was asking me what to do, and i was shocked that this would get to him so badly. He does not have much problem meeting women in the real world, so this was a slap in the face to him and he had no idea what to do. He isnt the only one, i know a lot of people who complain how hard it is for males in online dating, but they dont know why. Heres what i think it is.

Online it is impossible to show the things about you that words cant say. Charm, wit, good vibes, they are all lost online. The only thing that differentiates profiles really are the pictures. Theres no chance whatsoever for a connection online because you are not standing face to face with the person. A lot of people dont take into account also that, unfortunatly, unnatractive or generally nasty women will make profiles on these sites and have power trips and treat everyone like a piece of garbage because they CAN. The internet allows them to PRETEND they are the last word in woman. So if you get negative messages online or you are ignored, you just CANT take it personally. Unfortunatly, a lot of people seem to get very upset about it. There is NO substitute for real life approaches. Not even close.

Hope this helps

Honestly (and a guy that msg'd me said it himself) if you're not interested, online just makes it real easy to ignore and weed out the ones you don't want to waste time with. I give everyone a chance to a certain degree...but I'll tell you, I have been having a hell of a time finding someone interesting on POF. I get several (50+) msgs a day...and you know how many I reply to? Maybe 1 or 2 every couple days. I KNOW I am going to get flamed for that..and called a biatch and all those other fabulous things...but hey, if guys said to me in person what they say to me online...it would be the same result. A polite brush off and walk away. Online, there's no point in typing a response to something as effortless and vague as "hey sup..." Come on...give me a little more than that. Intrigue me, tell me you actually read my profile and didn't just look at the pictures. Ask me a question to get a response. Like "oh cool, you like sports...whats your favourite?" ANYTHING. Anything other than "sup" or "nice pics." Wtf do you want me to say to that???

I get a lot of "hey I msg'd you before but you never replied..." Yeah I didn't because you gave me nothing to reply to. Engage me in conversation. I also HATE (and here's a tip) "hi, have MSN???" Ugh, atleast get my name before I give you my email...seriously. I have so many gripes about online dating.

The guys that take the time and effort to reference things I have said in my profile will get a response. Even if I'm not sure I'm interested, I'll talk a bit to see. Sometimes these guys end up being great to talk to, witty and kind and not what I inititially got as a first impression.

Another thing, you can have the greatest little write-up to me in the world...but if your profession is "pot smoker", and your interests include "sex, skirts, sex, legs, sex, ladies." I'm not going to give you a second thought.

You're right, online dating is hard....but if people were more real and less "showboating"...they'd have a lot better luck.

 

[My Name is Nobody]

The free sites are a waste of time. You pay for what you get.. and with the free sites you get nada.

 

[Entropy4]

Online dating is a skill of its own.

I have a few friends who clean up online. They pull 2-3 girls a month from dating sites, and they're hot girls too.

I couldn't get a date from an online dating site if my life depended on it. I try every few months, and every time, NOTHING! Which is funny, because I pull more girls in real life than all of those friends combined.

It's a skill. You practice it. You tweak your profile. You learn. Keep trying.

 

[armadon]

I think you have to have a thick skin as a guy to do online dating. It's because when you write about yourself you are putting YOU out for everyone to critique. The bad thing is the critique is negative if you don't recieve a response or a F-off. That's hard for anyone to take. It's why I try and write to everyone woman that sends an email to me when I do online dating to say thank you but I'm not interested.

I suggest people only do online dating for about a week then sign off. Do that every 4-6 months so you can snag up new people and not the AWs that infest those sights day after day.

Last month I sent out 100 emails in 2 days. I think I had around 15 responses + others that I didn't email. out of those 15 I wanted I got the number within the day from about 5. I'm still seeing one of those right now. So I spent about 3 hours total to meet a quality woman but in reality I got rejevted by 95%. That's rough because when I go out I can pull the number from the chick I'm talking to. If you can handle the scrutiny then do the online thing if it floats your boat.

 

[rjones]

I sent messages to almost all the girls in my area and I would only get a few responses from ugly or fat girls but I never got any rude replies before. What did your friend say to them?

 

[Luke Skywalker]

**********

I have given up totally on dating sites and have dismissed them as a waste of time for the reasons the OP stated, and also for the following:

1) It's highly improbable to meet a genuine Christian lady from online, it's better to meet them in the church or small group within the church and know them in common first in a relaxed group atmosphere, and you don't get this stuck up pedistle attitude from attractive girls you get online as they are more down to earth and socialable.

2) My own experience online has been dismal. I've tried improving my photos, because the results were so bad from the improved photos that I demanded and successfully obtained a partial refund and also tried Grant Adam's net2bed-net2wed and couldn't connect with anything he was saying, and didn't seem to connect really with anyone with profile modifications to the slant of that product. I demanded and got a full money back for that product too.

3) The only connections I seemed to make (which all crashed and burned) were actually on self-abasing profiles which were negative expressions that express neediness, clingliness, or looking for a deflower, and ironically, people liked the way I expressed myself and connected with it, and seem to have better results than positive profiles. One positive profile - the 'December Santa-Clause' seemed to be the only thing that helped at connecting, but it seemed only to women I wasn't very physically into, but it had a jovial spirit about it.

4) It seems that I make far and few in between connections and may tend to get jealous of any women I make a connection with because I know she can just skip me for the next person because there are always a tonne of guys sending emails to her wanting to date her, and she has the upper hand to meet more people, while it's a long, drawn out process for me to connect with just one or a few people that I may not even like.

*************

 

[The Deacon]

Online dating is a skill of its own.

I have a few friends who clean up online. They pull 2-3 girls a month from dating sites, and they're hot girls too.

Entropy is right. My brother dates a lot of girls from online websites. I don't fancy it cause I don't like driving over thirty minutes to see a girl, but my brother gets quality action from it. These girls are also pretty hot. One of them was a model for a bridal magazine.

Dating sites aren't all bad. All my brother does is post the best-looking picture of him and he usually gets great feedback. Your friend may be good-looking, but he probably put up a bad photo. Tell him to dress up in some nice clothes and then take a picture that makes him look 10x better than he looks in real life. Then he'll start getting responses.

And another thing: Neil Strauss said that the "secret" to online dating is to make yourself sound arrogant in your profile, but in person act like you're a sweet guy. I haven't tried this before but if someone did that, I would love to read an FR about it.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Entropy is right. My brother dates a lot of girls from online websites. I don't fancy it cause I don't like driving over thirty minutes to see a girl, but my brother gets quality action from it. These girls are also pretty hot. One of them was a model for a bridal magazine.

Entrophy is right about OTHER guys being successful at this, but he says he cant pick up a girl online if his life depended on it, I have difficulty too, and lots of other guys also have difficulty who say the offline game is better than online.

Maybe what works for the next guy who may be pulling babes left, right and centre, may not work with the guy whose getting a rotten result between being ignored by everyone, or getting insults or negative responses from those who do reply back, or getting extreme low interest if they get an attractive girl that takes them on, or get girls they don't really like.

The question is can this work for anyone who wants it to work, or is it just the case where it just doesn't work for some people?

Dating sites aren't all bad. All my brother does is post the best-looking picture of him and he usually gets great feedback. Your friend may be good-looking, but he probably put up a bad photo. Tell him to dress up in some nice clothes and then take a picture that makes him look 10x better than he looks in real life. Then he'll start getting responses.

So what? Your brother is the 'OTHER guy', again, I don't see how some guys are successful at online dating while other guys (myself included) see this overall as a negative experience. I haven't heard about your experience either.

Just because you know someone who is successful at this, and it's working out that they are meeting lots of women, doesn't really say anything because I'm sure people know there are guys who have no problem picking up people from dating sites - but it doesn't seem to be a fair concept where anyone who wants to succeed in it can as people just seem to fall through the cracks of it, like the person the OP is talking about.

 

[The Deacon]

Skywalker, chill.

I live with my brother. He brings these girls back to our apartment. I've seen them. I don't have the personal experience with online dating sites, but I know what my brother does. Anyone with some common sense can tell you that you're supposed to look your best on an online dating site. If a girl rejects you, the other girls won't see it. Normal social dynamics don't come into play here.

And yes, my brother is the "OTHER GUY," but why can't you be the other guy too? You sound like you have no sense of entitlement. My brother gets flaked on by 50 girls before he finds one. Just play the friggin' numbers game man, it's an online website, no one's going to see you screw up.

 

[MotownMack]

There is NO substitute for real life approaches. Not even close.

Having been online dating on and off for the last year or more, I am finally coming around to this too, and it has a lot to do with why I am here. I have had quite a bit of success actually. But along the lines as Hairstylist is saying here, when you start building rapport with a woman over the phone, etc, and then you meet-it's almost like you're starting back a square one. If she's incredibly attracted to you physically, this isn't a huge deal. If she's luke warm, or you're not projecting the same "image" she constructed in her mind about the type of person you were-it's an uphill battle, and this happens often enough to make it annoying.

Also, there is no substitute for improving your game in the field. You can take those skills with you anywhere.

There is one person who this format will benefit-guys who have very little social skills or little experience dealing with girls. Talking on the phone can be a good way to get more comfortable with women, without the added pressure of feeling "on the spot" like you would if she was sitting across the table. It's a crutch, but it's also a start if you're stuck in this mindset.

Actually, SunnyD gave some pretty good tips in her post, and her attitude is pretty typical of many of the girls I've talked to online and met in person. I agree with just about everything she wrote there, so apparently girls can give good advice from time to time

I know she can just skip me for the next person because there are always a tonne of guys sending emails to her wanting to date her

This is probably the biggest reason online dating fails, IMO. And both genders are guilty of it. The fact of the matter is, you're on the market until your profile comes down. I can't tell you how many dates I've been on, where I got home, checked my email, and there were 2 or 3 messages from other girls there.

The net effect of all this (pardon the pun)? No one really takes the time to get to know anyone like they should. Too many people, especially women, are convinced that if they don't feel an "explosion" of chemistry, then it's not worth exploring, since they have 20 other guys who would consider dating them. If this were real life, and you weren't being out 10 times a week, you'd probably take the time to get to know them a little better, and there would be a much better chance something would develop. But with instant gratification, the standard is raised, and it's tougher to make an impression.

then take a picture that makes him look 10x better than he looks in real life

This is a mistake. This will just result in a lot of wasted time and lower that persons self esteem, when he goes to meet girls in real life and they say he doesn't look like his picture. Again, remember what I said above about "nexting" being a huge issue. This will get you nexted quickly and often. Don't put up your worst pictures, but don't put up ones that are way better than what you look like on a daily basis, either.

The question is can this work for anyone who wants it to work, or is it just the case where it just doesn't work for some people?

Good question. Here's the answer I have for you.

It depends on what you're looking for.

For getting laid or just getting out there on some dates, some social contact, yeah, it works- I haven't had any really bad experiences with it, like meeting psycho chicks or anything like that.

The bad news is, both the men and women I've talked to, especially for those looking for a little more than ONS-almost none of them-and I have talked to A LOT-have ever really given online dating a raving review. At best, most are like me-they say it's ok, they've had some ups and downs, some decent dates, met some they liked that weren't interested in them, met others that were into them but they didn't feel the same, etc.

Maybe that's just a commentary on what all dating is like, though. Who knows.

Anyway, it's another avenue to meet someone, but shouldn't be your sole avenue. Since you're asking someone who has experience with it, at this moment, I am leaning towards your original comments. Online dating is ok, but it has some pretty big draw backs that have caused me to move away from it for now. I still occasionally talk to women online and end up meeting them, but I no longer take it seriously at all. I consider it something I do to pass the time, or when I can't get out enough in real life to meet new people.

 

[seasonedplayer]

Yes, I have tried 2 different websites and various strategies. Online dating is a complete waste of time

Some statistics: I have probably spent a total of 50 hours online and managed to set up 15 dates. Of those 15 dates, 10 flaked. then of those 5 dates, the furthest I got was a handjob

the problem is that the ratio is at least 5 men to every woman. that means 3 things:
a) hard to get a date
b) flake rate following a date is 50%+
c) even if you get a date, it is hard to get a second date because the woman has 10+ other guys ready to date her (with false photos etc) and take her out to dinner in an instant

Yeh, some people might get laid regularly but they probably spend 40 hours a week online!

 

[insidious]

....then take a picture that makes him look 10x better than he looks in real life...

Bullcrap.
For a lot of us that means taking a picture with the lights off.

Anyways, online is OK but don't invest too much of yourself into it...in fact,use it to augment whatever else you have going on. FWIW, last Saturday I got laid off an online hook-up, so I can't be too bitter against it. I'm not thrilled with it though.

 

[DonGorgon]

the problem is that the ratio is at least 5 men to every woman. that means 3 things:
a) hard to get a date
b) flake rate following a date is 50%+
c) even if you get a date, it is hard to get a second date because the woman has 10+ other guys ready to date her (with false photos etc) and take her out to dinner in an instant!

This exact problem exists both on and off line... men usually out number women 15 to 1 in the dating game causing a major demand and supply disparity giving women tons of options and tins of power and little incentive to ever make a decision..

The average women who is a 5 or higher in looks is being constantly approached and offered things by desperate men... The more men she has chasing her the higher her standards get cause she never has to go without attention or sex if she does not want to..

The attitudes of modern american women is shaped by these factors and eliminates the need for them to be polite or nice to any males.. Cause they can always get another and another ...

I have concluded that this is exactly why so many average men are opting to be transvestites and become average women instead as they can get much more attention... AND THAT IS VERY SAD INDEED..

 

[slaog]

The free sites are a waste of time. You pay for what you get.. and with the free sites you get nada.

Exactly!
The free sites are full of women who you really wouldn't want to date anyway. They're not serious about dating if they were they'd pay for it.

In my experiance the women on free sites are lower quality women and alot of time they have kids.

Also theres even more men and there is such a big ratio of men to women it means women hold all the power because most of the men are AFC's. The women are being showered with so much attention even if you're not an AFC it's hard to show it..

Unbelievably the other day on plenty of fish i was reading a profile of this good looking girl and she was such a b**** it was unreal. She was saying she's bored of getting 50 messages a day and won't bother replying to any if they don't have their name or don't do this or don't do that etc. I said to myself who'd want to message her with that attitude but looked below and it turns out she was favoured by alot of people (AFC's).

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Exactly!
The free sites are full of women who you really wouldn't want to date anyway. They're not serious about dating if they were they'd pay for it.

In my experiance the women on free sites are lower quality women and alot of time they have kids.

Also theres even more men and there is such a big ratio of men to women it means women hold all the power because most of the men are AFC's. The women are being showered with so much attention even if you're not an AFC it's hard to show it..

This is so true. One date told me that she deleted 695 emails on her inbox and simply couldn't read them. She zeroed on my particular profile as it was unique and was something she was looking for. She was a divorcee & single mom with kids and 30 y/o -- but was blonde and white. 695 men competing to date her and obviously wanting to have sex with her -- she choose me because I didn't come across like I just wanted to have sex with her.

Didn't get a second date with her though, but don't care since I don't date women with kids who are divorcees - but since I'm confident that things will crash and burn or go awry in one way that I take what I can to learn something new. However, the point still stands -- if a woman who is divorceed and a single mother can get 695 emails from guys who are begging for sex, then guys have put women on a pedistle and have spoiled them.

Unbelievably the other day on plenty of fish i was reading a profile of this good looking girl and she was such a b**** it was unreal. She was saying she's bored of getting 50 messages a day and won't bother replying to any if they don't have their name or don't do this or don't do that etc. I said to myself who'd want to message her with that attitude but looked below and it turns out she was favoured by alot of people (AFC's).

Yup. I've given up on this online dating thing a while a go.

I mean, if you want a cure for approach anxiety try online dating for a month. Eventually you'll get so frustrated that you'll have to get over any hang-up you have to approach a girl in real life.

 

[ModernSavage]

I agree that online dating is pretty much a big waste of time, especially if you are using specific online dating sites. I remember a couple years ago I spent a ridiculous amount of time sending out messages on Craigslist and Match, probably sent out over 100 messages, and all I ended up with was one lousy phone number, which turned into flake once I called her.

However, recently I've been trying out MySpace and Facebook as means to get dates and the technique I've learned for this is actually beginning to work. It seems like the way to go is to setup your profile with lots and lots of pictures. Not just glamor shots either but pictures of you with other hot women and doing a bunch of fun exciting things. Think of it like a big collage of your life.

I actually just wrote an online dating article similar to this and it's about how online dating should be only used as a tool for quickly and efficiently getting dates so that you can maximize your time in the field. Because when all is said and done, you can only get laid from practice in the field regardless of where you meet the girl.

 

[yama600rr]

i think dating websites are really hard to pick up good looking women, even average looking women. i mean they have choices to pick from. why should they pick ugly, average looking men when they can pick someone who is better looking just a click away.
I think unless youre good looking, then dating websites is for you, but if youre not good looking then goodluck to you.