Fit man can charge 10 ft in 1.0 second.

[twentee]

and punch you, from a standing start. hold a coin as high as you can, drop it, and it will hit the floor in 1 second. Not much time and crap usually starts at 6 ft or less, and he can be all OVER you in 1/2 second, from 6 ft away. If he takes one step and DIVES at you, he can be upon you in 3/4 second, from 10 ft away. Some men do the 40 yd dash in 4.0 seconds, guys, from a dead stop. So they are moving faster than 30 fps, feet per second, which is 20mph, miles per hour, or 30 kilometers per hour, or almost 10 mps, meters per second. I say this because in order to AVERAGE 30 fps, he has to exceed that speed a bit, to make up for starting from a dead stop.

What this means is that you have to be VERY aware of others and tactical considerations, and have your hand ON your pistol (in a front pants pocket holster), or you won't get it into play soon enough to save yourself from a real threat. Unless you really are greased lighting from a concealed belt rig, which takes 100's of hours of disciplined practice to attain, you probably won't get the chance to show off your "accuracy", or even "bluff" someone with the sight of your gun. Almost everyone is WAY too slow with their gun. they are lazy and just want to slowfire "plink" at soda cans and bullseye paper targets. Fast draw practice can be safe, cheap, easy, with AirSoft pistols. Google for them. They "fire" a 5mm diameter plastic "bb" at bb gun speeds, for about 1/2 c per shot. good ones use "green gas", are rapidfire capable and cost about $100 US, if you know where to buy. You CAN waste $300 on one, if you aren't careful.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Fit man can charge 10 ft in 1.0 second.

Plus, each guy's arm or leg can reach 3-4 feet when leaning into a strike or holding out a weapon. The real distance to cover when ten feet apart is less than half that distance before strikes start to land. That can be crossed in 1/4 to 1/2 a second.

 

[user43770]

What if I backpedal diagonally while drawing from strong side, IWB at 4 o'clock?

 

[goundra]

no, the 1 second and 10 ft time is ALLOWING for your outstretched arm,dude. What if you backpedal? better be a trained martial artist, or you're likely to fall back on your ass when trying it under real stress. have you tried JUMPING back first, then backpedally IF possible, time wise, that is, for the backpedalling. do you know how to do breakfalls and can you draw as you fall backwards? ever try shooting from supine? gotta watch out that your feet don't "rock up" into your line of fire. Yes i HAVE practiced this, best do it with airsoft gun at first . The shots are fired at a very "high" angle and normally miss most backstops at ranges. Behind the hip is a silly place to carry. hard to "clear" the garment with left hand and if the coat is fastened (ie, rain, wind, cold, decorum) then the "little finger brush" method of clearing it won't WORK. and if wearing a hung out shirt (ie, hot weather) sweater, sweatsuit, etc, same thing, Need to clear the garment with the weak hand. so the navel is the place to carry, but it puts a premium on being fit, with good abs and pecs, and on the gun being light and short. The front pants pocket is superior, really. if you can't see trouble coming, or just always put hand in pocket, on the gun, in "iffy" circumstances, so as to cut off about 3/4 second of 'gun access time", then no pistol or rig is likely to save you. Google for the Diamondback DB9 pocket 9mm. Very lw and compact, $400 retail.

 

[user43770]

Better off going with the Kahr CM9.

 

[bonie]

Well,

I don't agree, altho that's a fairly good gun, it's still a bit large for the front pants pocket. I DO think, tho, that the DB9 is much too lw for the sort of REALLY fast repeat hits that I insist upon. So I added 1 oz to the barrel (3/4' barrel extention) 2 ozs to the slide (so it won't be pounded so hard with high powered ammo) and 3 ozs to the frame. a hole in the pocket lets the barrel extention drop down into it, and keeps the gun the same "depth" in the pocket. The barrel wt also delays the "unlocking" of the tilting barrel from its mortize inside of the slide, which helps with both recoil control and hotter ammo blowing the slide open so quick and hard.

I insist on .20 second repeat hit times (on electronic shooting timer). You can get one for $100 from Shooting Chrony. This is from a 2 handed, eye level firing stance, by a master shottist, with loads that offer 500 ft lbs of power, and the same recoil as the very 'mild' Winchester 115 gr ball ammo. the trick is to drive a 45 gr bullet to 2200 fps. this can be done, but it requires special knowledge and ability as a machinist, smith, and ammo loader.

The distance for the above shooting is 10 ft, the target a 10" circle, the size of a man's vitals. Anyone who will practice even a little bit can get .20 second repeat hits with the $100 Jennings .22 pocket auto, so I insist upon my defensive pistol being able to match that rate of fire. Since the defender by law has to let the attacker at least TRY to "start-first", I will be coming from behind, time wise, and I must hit him MUCH harder than any .22 can, because I must stop him immediately,while he only has to maim or kill me SLOWLY with that .22 hit. I can't let him hit me at ALL, you see.

 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

What kind of world do you live in where "fit men" are charging you and you are immediately going to deadly force? How many men have you shot in your lifetime?

Lay off the bourne supremacy and taken movies.

 

[bonie]

1000's of people are attacked, every day, in most countries of the world. Usually, the "stuff' starts at arm's length distances, or at most one step away. You suffer under the delusiong that such things "never happen", well, personal experience of many millions of people prove you wrong. I've been attacked, or very nearly attacked, many times. all it takes, really, is to go where you want, when you want to go there, and to not back down from anything or anybody. You know, like a MAN, instead of a rabbit, always running and hiding from everything that moves.

 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

I've been attacked, or very nearly attacked, many times. all it takes, really, is to go where you want, when you want to go there, and to not back down from anything or anybody.

Huh? Are you talking about bar fights? How many times have you been "attacked?" Are you a criminal?

I should never back down from "anything?" A train? A bear? A police officer? If I do then I'm a rabbit, not a MAN?

I have been called on scene of many assaults. So far every since one has been preventable with a little common sense. I'm not saying random assaults don't happen and I do encourage people to be prepared with whatever makes them feel safe but quit living in a fantasy world where everyone is out to get you.

If you're that worried about dying then obey traffic laws, eat healthy and exercise.

 

[Huffman]

Fit man can charge 10 ft in 1.0 second.

That's about 3 meters. So what? If that man stretches out his arm, and you stretch out yours, you're almost touching. Doesn't sound like a lot of distance to me.

Also, moving backwards from a guy who's charging into you seems not practical - are you really sure you can move backwards faster than he does forwards? Guys don't rush at you "with 20 mph" expecting to do only ONE punch. I guess if you're quick, then dodging to the side would be good, but I'd probably be too slow for that. Might just manage to deflect the attack in last second and immediately get into a brawl. Just hope the guy is not 2x your weight

I don't think you have time to draw your gun unless you deflect his first blow and/or get out of the line of attack.

 

[goundra]

I can react, make a ccw draw and fire a 1 handed, hip level point shot in 3/4 second, and as I do the draw, jump back at least 1 yd, which "buys" me another 1/4 second (minimum). In 1 1/4 second, I can react to the beep of an actual electronic shooting timer, do the jump back and ccw draw thing, get the gun up to eye level, both hands on it and get a very nice hit on the chest, at 4 ft or so of range, which is where the guy will be by that time. From that position, I am much more likely to get the repeated, high speed hits likely to be necessary.

I don't favor the behind the hip ccw holster position, because's it's awkward/slow when used with realistic concealing garments. If the attacker can make 2-3 steps charging in 1 second, you can make 1 step, to side or rear. , or jump once and then take another step, as you fire. it is very easy to take a step in 1/2 second. I can still execute the simplest, 20 step Taekwando "kata", which uses very "long' (lunging, about 36") steps, involves (2) 3/4 turns/pivots, (2) 1/2 turns, and (3) 1/4 turns, in 12 seconds, and I used to be able to do it in a hair over 10 seconds, as a young man. Each step is combined with either a decending block or a shoulder high straight punch.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Years ago in police academy we had a training scenario with this exact type of situation.

The scenario went as follows...you entered a room and there's a man about 10 feet away from you. As you are talking to him, he suddenly charges you with a knife (rubber for training).

Every person tested who tried to draw their firearm failed. There was no time, the attacker was already on top of you stabbing away.

The only way to pass this scenario, was to quickly side step out of the attackers way. Then, when the attacker passes by you, you can draw your gun, or do a hand strike, etc.

The attacker charges so fast they attack in a straight line, right towards you. By stepping to the side, you effectively get out of the way.

 

[Bible_Belt]

By stepping to the side, you effectively get out of the way.

Re-directing your opponents force and not directly opposing it is a fundamental principle of martial arts. It's a lot older than guns, but still very useful. The more out of control the attacker is, the worse of a position he is put into by missing you with his first lunge and then counter-attack becomes easy.

 

[goundra]

one step to the side accomplishes little or nothing, because you are still within the reach of his swing, especially with a club or a knife with a long blade. very few people are fast enough on the draw. A master is 2x as fast as the average guy, normally, taking 1 second to do what the typical man takes 2 seconds or more. that 1 second diff is time enough to hit one man 6x, or hit 4 separate, other men.

 

[goundra]

so you "think' people's arms are 5 ft long, eh? why would YOUR arm be outstretched, hmm? blocks are done close to your person, or they have little or no effect, dude. The guy takes 2-3 steps, either a couple of long, lunging, slower ones, or 3 quick "runnning" ones, A normal step is 30 inches, so no, 2 normal steps doesn't close a distance of 10 ft, toe to toe, including an outstretched arm. Most guys clenched fist means a reach of 30" or less.

 

[goundra]

even a cop who has an openly worn rig, most of them take 2 full seconds to react, draw and hit a 10" circle at 10 ft of distance. A really good man can do this same thing in sub 1.0 second, from real concealment, under a t shirt tail, gun worn IWB, inside of the waistband.

 

[Bible_Belt]

one step to the side accomplishes little or nothing

That would depend upon one's timing. Whether it's pro boxing or street fights, almost all knockouts come when one fighter gets to a 10 or 2 o'clock angle and the other guy does not re-adjust. Everyone is easier to attack when they are not directly facing you. You might be within his reach, but he will have very little power on his strikes.

Plus, getting to the side is the first step in getting behind an attacker. If you can get to his back, that should be the end of the fight. Just break the arm that's holding the weapon.

 

[twentee]

yeah,, right, just get behind him and break his arm. nothing to it. What a crock. he doesn't NEED much force to swing a razor or stab you. I've been attacked, or nearly attacked for doing nothing but walking down the sidewalk or the rural road. several times, actually. All it takes is for some ******* to be having a problem, see you and decide to take it out on you. several got their minds changed for them, and they were VERY lucky to have tried it on me in my early days. Today, after stopping them with the sight of my gun or using my karate on them, they'd get dropped and kicked in the spine until I feel/hear it crunch. People who "think' that they should be free to attack others need a REAL lifelong lesson about such stupidity.

 

[Mr.Positive]

A really good man can do this same thing in sub 1.0 second, from real concealment, under a t shirt tail, gun worn IWB, inside of the waistband.

You mean 1/4 second, from real concealment, to a full draw. That's impossible in real life situations.

You lose 3/4 of second from when your mind tells your body there's a threat.

When a man attacks you, your mind has to process that, recognize it. It's not like a buzzer you are prepared for at a gun range. At a gun range, you are ready. Most likely "if" you get attacked, it will be in normal daily life. You will lose that 3/4 of second to that attacker's advantage. Factor that into your calculations, it could mean the difference between life and death.

 

[twentee]

no, it doesn't. Not for the man who has really trained his draw to a high level. I've been walking across my yard, gun concealed IWB, with a shirt hung out over it, , had a passing car backfire, and had to put my gun away, ! the draw can be REFLEXIVE, just like a block or a strike, and in the time it takes to get it to eye level and both hands on it, the DECISION TO FIRE or not can be made. So the time I quoted, 1 second flat, is accurate, for the very fastest men. Others, yes, it's a lot more like 2.0 seconds or more, so they need to have hand ON gun, in front pants pocket holster. That saves about 1 full second, for most people.