First date in almost years...totally bombed...and went from nice to nightmare.

[harrison9876]

Hey guys...

So I got out of an extremely destructive on and off 8 year relationship just before covid started.

Really glad to be out of it, but when I reflect back on how I was before I met her... I feel that now... like I'm just completely withdrawn from women in general.

I enjoy my life. I own a company here in LA. Own my own home. I'm on my own time so I can do whatever I want, whenever I want. Started learning guitar quite a few months back to do something different. Really focusing on me, and though I've met some really attractive women who I'd love to go out with.. I don't really ask anyone out. Just don't feel it I guess. I also feel so out of practice that I would probably just end up completely embarrassing myself anyways...hahaha

I'm so busy with stuff I'm doing in my life, that I've been resorting to dating apps just to see what's out there. Even though I'm a fairly good looking guy (46, but look like I'm in my early 30s) l rarely get matches...and the likes I get are horrrrrible. In the past year and a half I've had maybe 10 or 12 matches.. with the majority of them being either bots, or women who unmatch after I suggest we get together and meet.

I finally matched with an interesting girl about 2 months ago... who gave me a lot of red flags I ignored. I mentioned her in another thread. This girl only wanted to chat over message, and didn't want to share her phone number, due to previous horrible experiences with online dating.

Whatever.

Against my better judgment I never unmatched this girl (seemed like she had a lot of issues, and mentioned her ex a couple times). We just sort of stayed in contact casually for the past 8 weeks. In conversation she rarely shared anything with me. If I expressed interest in something she was doing or something about her, her answers were short. She said other guys think that she's "mysterious"... To me it was just annoying as fvuck. One thing she never did: ask me anything about me. Never expressed interest in anything that I was doing. Conversation generally revolved around me trying to get to know her, and her not bothering from her side.

So in short, pretty useless unemotional, unimportant unattached chit chat.

She never once ever seemed into me. Mega low IL.

She kept telling me that she's acts like this because she's untrusting of guys she meets online. A lot of bad experiences and she's very suspicious of everyone, so it takes a lot for her to open up. The only person who gets her phone number is her "boyfriend". Guys she's dating, they can only reach her through the dating app.

I think I was just talking to her out of pure boredom.. and wanting to connect with a cute girl. Satisfying my own ego... So I'm to blame for a lot of this.

She works pretty much 7 days a week, and on occasion would hint that when she has a day off we can possibly get together (uh huh)...

A week before Thanksgiving she tells me that she has Thanksgiving off because of it being a holiday. She was hinting that we get together, but I didn't go for it.

3 days later she brings it up again, so I take the bait. As she's French, and I'm Canadian.. American Thanksgiving isn't really either of our holidays. So I had no problem meeting her. Also figured I needed the dating practice anyway.. and it would probably be pretty chill due to the fact that she is so timid and supposedly untrusting of men on dating sites.

After we make plans her attitude towards me changes. She's much more responsive to me and she starts acting like a normal person.

I tell her I'll meet her in her area, and we can grab a drink or just chill somewhere.

Instead, she wanted to go to dinner.. and on top of that, give me her address and asks that I pick her up - complete 180 from someone who's afraid of men, untrusting of men, suspicious of men, and fearful of them on dating apps .

All this behavior confused the living shyt out of me.

I showed up not really that into it.. but as the evening went on she actually ended up being a really cool girl.

But.... With me so out of practice (hadn't been on an official date in like 8 years)... I had no game whatsoever. I just completely bombed with this girl and it ended up feeling like a friend hang out.

My flirting game was awful, if not completely non-existent. And there was no escalation on my part. Part of me didn't feel it, and the other part of me was scared as shyt. I kept hesitating because she drilled it into my head for 8 weeks, that she needs a guy to take it slow with her, and she's so suspicious of men on dating apps.

In person I thought she was really cute and interesting. Very intelligent and artistic. We spent like six or seven hours together

Anyway, after dropping her off (I normally would have walked her to the door)...she gets out of my car turns to me and says, "thanks for the evening I had a good time.. and you can have my phone number".

I was a little bit in shock because she told me a few weeks earlier that she ONLY
gives her number to someone she considers a "boyfriend". She was also walking away. quickly and with me feeling so out of it (like a 16 year old kid not knowing what the hell I'm doing)... I didn't close the deal on that. I think my gut was telling me I really didn't want her phone number.

She tells me to message her when I get home, so she knows I arrived safely.

I get home, message her, and she replies by asking what I think of her.

Wasn't really prepared for that one. Wasn't sure how I felt because I felt a lot more confused than anything else...but... nonetheless... I told her I thought she was really cute I enjoyed spending time with her and would for sure like to go out with her again.

Well apparently that wasn't good enough.

The conversation took a bit of a turn...and
within a few sentences tells me that she doesn't want a guy that finds her cute. She wants a guy who will fight for her (aka she wants a guy to chase her)...

ummmmmm...okaaay....

I told her I only just met her...

She then started attacking me over messages telling me that I'm "not ready for a relationship, and clearly only looking for a sexual partner". And if I'm interested in her it's going to "take a lot of time". I believe her exact words were:

"You want a girl who's easy. Casual. Someone who isn't going to be a lot of work."

(In my head I'm like, "ummmm...yeah... That sounds really great!")

"I don't trust guys. I'm suspicious of everyone I meet on online dating. And it takes a lot for me to open up. With me it's going to take a lot of work, and I don't think you want that."

With me clearly having an ego problem of my own.. and getting pissed off that she's attacking me for absolutely no reason.. what ensued was a ridiculous online messaging argument. The arguing was more from her side, and me trying to calm the situation down.

I know, I know.. I should not have engaged and just walked away.

This entire thing was reminiscent of my ex.. it was like I was back to the drawing board with the same type of fvked up personality.

This ridiculous chat went on for quite a bit with her accusing me of having all sorts of terrible personality traits, and me arguing and defending myself.. to the point where she was so angry with me she told me that I'm extraordinarily insecure, and then completely unmatched me.

Clearly the universe was working in my favor and I dodged a major bullet on this one...

But... I keep blaming myself for allowing this to go on. Yes I knew the warning signs. Yes I should have walked away immediately.

For the past week only one thing has been going through my head, "what the hell is wrong with me?"

I mean holy crap... I never ever used to be like this. I would walk away when there was a red flag. I had a lot more self-respect. 2 years have gone by for god sakes..

Besides the complete novel we could write about her.. I am more interested in figuring out me.

Can anyone else relate to what I am going through right now? And how the hell to get out of it?

From my side, it appears my issues are a need for complete ego fulfillment, combined with a lack of self-esteem/self-confidence... Which ironically is exactly what this girl was all about, too.

Sorry for the long post.

Mike

 

[Grounded eagle]

I’ll keep it short.Leave this woman alone.Get the hell off OLD.

If she’s so mistrustful of guys on OLD.....then why the heck is she still on OLD????

 

[harrison9876]

If she’s so mistrustful of guys on OLD.....then why the heck is she still on OLD????

Yup... Those were my thoughts exactly.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Sounds to me like she spread her legs pretty quickly for some chads from swipe apps in the past. Maybe thinking she was going to have a bf when they just pump and dumped her. So now she's super careful not to let that happen again.

 

[Robert28]

Dude! When I did OLD I met a girl almost exactly like this! Only wanted to chat through the app, never even offered her number even though I gave her mine. We went out on a date and afterwards she messages me “you can have my number now!”. I also need to say that she made this claim on our date that she dated this other guy for a month but “wasn’t feeling it” so she broke it off. Said she needed someone who would wait a month to have sex. I laughed and told her I wouldn’t waste my time doing that because if someone I’ve been dating for a month won’t sleep with me I’ll take that as they aren’t into me that much. Would you believe we go out on 4 more dates and she ends up dumping me for what I said on the first date about the whole waiting a month for sex.lol total looney tunes! How she’s made it this long in life I’ll never know.

 

[Robert28]

Sounds to me like she spread her legs pretty quickly for some chads from swipe apps in the past. Maybe thinking she was going to have a bf when they just pump and dumped her. So now she's super careful not to let that happen again.

She’s not super careful, she’s an idiot. This woman has mental issue out the wazzoo.

 

[harrison9876]

Yeah she kept saying over and over again for 8 weeks, how "communication" for her is key....yet... Never wants to communicate. Relies on messaging only. Never tells me anything about her, never asks anything about me, and many times when I wrote something to her, she would read it in her own way, and interpret it completely different in the way it was meant... And they get mad because she's reading into it. I told her numerous times that communicating over the app makes no sense because you "can't." She would always disagree and tell me that "words are words". No matter how many times I told her it was a terrible way to communicate. It's like she wanted to have everything that I wrote on record, so she can reference it later.

On the occasions she mentioned her ex.. I had the impression they were together for a really long period of time. Like an actual boyfriend of a couple years. Especially the way she was talking about him. Don't remember what she said but it was all about him being an a$$hole apparently. When I went out with her and she mentioned him again, she told me they were only together for 6 weeks.

 

[harrison9876]

The ridiculous argument (which resulted in her unmatching/blocking me) all started when I mentioned that the past 8 weeks she never really seemed that into me.

On one hand, she wanted me to see how much I liked her (which obviously wasn't enough because she immediately accused me of only talking to her to get laid). On the other hand, when I was trying to find out the same, she accused me of being completely insecure.

Me - "Ummmm... If you aren't acting or talking to me like you like me, interested in anything about me or who I am, avoiding most of the questions I have when I'm expressing interest in you...get a bit defensive when I am joking around with you or flirting ...sorry .. but I'm just going to assume you're not that into me".

Her - "If you don't think I like you, then that means you have extreme insecurity...sorry, but bye and good luck.".

 

[SW15]

@harrison9876

The situation with that one woman is completely beyond repair. She did some unusual things and you also missed some opportunities to seduce. Try and forget it ever happened.

The swipe apps are a challenging environment for most men. The first thing I'd do right now is delete all of them. It's a mentally healthy and liberating experience to do all that. Also, do less texting with women. Almost all interacting needs to be in-person with texting only for setting logistics. Phone calls are permissible when there's an issue more complicated than simple logistics.

Congratulations on having an 8 year relationship from 2011-2019. It's difficult for most men to do that. Women have so many options now (and did in 2011) that they don't tend to stick around for more than a few dates in a lot of cases. It seems like you did things well in that from 2011-2013 and then it went downhill. My guess is that you stayed in that 8 year relationship for 2-4 years too long. Things happen.

Since the 8 year relationship ended about 2 years ago, have you done any mental health therapy in the last 2 years? 2 years is long enough from a therapy standpoint to make some progress. While going to therapy won't typically make you a good early stage seducer, it might help create patterns that can extend relationships a bit beyond the initial seduction. The only way it can help early stage seduction is in how you present yourself overall. Therapy generally isn't going to help you in the tactics of developing a social circle, planning dates, or initial approaching.

You are likely quite horny after 2 years of no vagina and that feeling is normal. Watching porn and masturbating have likely happened. Porn and mastubating are not good. We're meant to have orgasms with a partner, not sitting in front of an electronic screen and wanking. I'm a proponent of no porn and no masturbation though some people do overrate its benefits. It's still a good thing to do in general. You can read the nofap threads on here or in other places on the internet if you're interested. Your mindset and energies will change for the positive doing no porn and no fap.

How's your social circle? That's the first place to start with finding dates. Your male friends have girlfriends and wives. Try and see if any of time know any single women. This might be a fruitless exercise but it's still worth an effort. I wouldn't bother making new friends right now for a social circle. If you've been in Los Angeles for a while, you probably know enough people. There are times where men can't have viable social circles for finding dates for circumstances beyond their control.

With you being in Los Angeles, you could go down to any of the beaches and do outdoor approaching year round. There's no masking, which is good. Masking has hurt supermarket, retail, and gym approaching. Outdoor approaching is still the most viable form of approaching for these times. Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica is a common space for approachers too.

Middle aged heterosexuals in general have a tough market. There aren't a lot of them. After age 30, most people are in multi-year LTRs or marriages. Many have babies. Many of the available ones have children from previous relationships.

 

[CoandaEffect]

OLD is always seen as bad by many on this forum but it can actually be a good way to meet the ladies. You have to have a good strategy though and you didn’t. Understand that there are a lot of good ladies on OLD but there are far more AWs and messed up ones on there as well. Your strategy needs to weed out the bad ones quickly.

Within the first 3 messages to them you need to ask them out. If she is genuine and wants to meet you she will meet you, the AWs will make up excuses. This lady made up excuses so you should have just moved on.

You said yourself that there were red flags that you ignored. Learn from your own intuition and don’t ignore them again.

Also, never let the lady dictate where you go on a first date. If she wants dinner then let her take you to dinner and she can pay. If it’s your date, your taking her out, you decide where to go, you pay.

It’s been said many times on the forum, you never do dinner on the first date.

Meet ladies in real life but don’t give up on OLD. Improve your strategy and don’t get involved with the AWs, they are easy to spot and once spotted next them immediately.

Good luck.

 

[harrison9876]

Thanks guys...

Yeah...the crappy thing is I keep replaying in my head what I "should" have done...what I "shouldn't" have done. Placing blame on this entire fiasco on myself. Telling myself that I was the problem, not her. That I was reading into everything (probably based on my prior relationship), and how she acted was totally normal. Clearly, I need to go to therapy. I have not as yet, @SW15, as I felt that by doing so, it indicated weakness.

I agree with much of what is being said. Honestly, I was following her lead as she just kept reiterating over and over again how she is untrusting of guys she meets online, and is suspicious of everything. So I "allowed" her to set the date terms...which clearly, is something I will not be doing going forward.

My social circle is awful, and working from home doesn't help matters.

There is a really cool/fun girl I met a few weeks back while walking my dog. I see her on the hiking trails and she is in love with my dog (so she always approaches and gives him the love, haha). We do chat for a bit, but apart from knowing each other's names and basic "hey how's it going?...what have you been up to?, etc., not much is going on there. Was going to try to engage her more when I see her next...I am just soooooo out of practice...

 

[CoandaEffect]

The dog girl sounds great, don’t wait any longer, next time you see her ask for her phone number. Ask confidently with the attitude that she wants to give the number to you. Take your phone out and ask her “What’s your phone number?”. Don’t say something like “Can I have your phone number?” The second way of asking is basically telling her that you don’t think she will want to give it to you.

Good luck.

 

[Grounded eagle]

There is a really cool/fun girl I met a few weeks back while walking my dog. I see her on the hiking trails and she is in love with my dog (so she always approaches and gives him the love, haha). We do chat for a bit, but apart from knowing each other's names and basic "hey how's it going?...what have you been up to?, etc., not much is going on there. Was going to try to engage her more when I see her next...I am just soooooo out of practice...

Now THAT’S how you’re supposed to meet women,in real life.Swiping right on some app is unnatural and cheapens the human experience of interaction,and we already spend so much time online for one reason or another(lol I realize how old I sound saying that)

Just keep it simple with this girl. You don’t need some witty,bombastic line,especially considering you already have some rapport with her.Just ask her for her number,girls understand the implications of giving a guy their number,that he is probably interested in them, and if she’s willing,she’ll cooperate and not make it hard for you.

 

[SW15]

Yeah...the crappy thing is I keep replaying in my head what I "should" have done...what I "shouldn't" have done. Placing blame on this entire fiasco on myself. Telling myself that I was the problem, not her. That I was reading into everything (probably based on my prior relationship), and how she acted was totally normal. Clearly, I need to go to therapy. I have not as yet, @SW15, as I felt that by doing so, it indicated weakness.

You legitimately did some erroneous things in that one situation above. It's not entirely your fault. Even if you had exhibited perfect game, there's a good chance that interaction wouldn't have worked and you'd be in a similar place. With perfect game, you likely would have walked away sooner before the situation got out of hand.

Going to therapy is not weakness. In a way, it can be strength. You realize that you can't deal with your mental health issues. You have some if you were in a 8 year long destructive relationship.

For me, I had to start therapy due to have physical health reactions as a result of my mental health. My reactions were variations of what the fictional Tony Soprano experienced below.

Most therapists are doing video conferencing now. I was doing video conferencing with my therapist prior to the onset of the pandemic. Video, remote therapy was the model that fit my schedule pre-pandemic. PM me if you want to recommendations on how to find therapists.

My social circle is awful, and working from home doesn't help matters.

Yes, social circle game is likely not realistic for you. Working from home won't help. You're going to be reliant upon approaching strangers in some real life activities that you'll determine.

There is a really cool/fun girl I met a few weeks back while walking my dog. I see her on the hiking trails and she is in love with my dog (so she always approaches and gives him the love, haha). We do chat for a bit, but apart from knowing each other's names and basic "hey how's it going?...what have you been up to?, etc., not much is going on there. Was going to try to engage her more when I see her next...I am just soooooo out of practice...

This situation has potential. Just ask her questions, listen to her answers, and then ask her to go to a bar for drinks.

 

[Bokanovsky]

You sound very inexperienced with women, despite being 46. I'll give you two pieces of advice that will serve you well in all interactions with women.

First, pay no attention...I repeat NO attention to what they say about themselves or their expectations of men. It's worthless blabber that holds about as much meaning as the sound of crashing waves or the tire noise you hear when driving on the highway.

And second, stay away from women that rub you the wrong away and seem "crazy". If your gut is telling you that there is something off about a particular woman, just stay away from her. It may be hard to do if the woman is attractive and you are lonely, but you have to discipline yourself and learn to stop thinking with your pen!s. I have NEVER heard anyone say "gee, I had a gut feeling that the woman is crazy but it turned out to be totally wrong!"

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

OLD is the height of stupidity. You tell her where when. Comply or bye. Then go get more girls. OP what part of no free attention don't you get?

 

[Glassguy]

OP- take this as a learning experience. You bombed on the date because you ignored the red flags and proceeded anyway. Dont base a disaster date soley on your actions. After all, you were working with a pile of shyte to begin with. Its hard to mold that into a masterpiece.

You need to screen MUCH better. Sometimes I get their number, sometimes I offer mine. A majority of the time they will just give it to me after some light texting. Especially when I say "great talking to ya but I have to run. Lets catch up later".

This woman was lined with red flags, strung you along and you kept chasing the carrot.

Step back, realize that the only thing you did was not screen properly, gave the wrong person your time (most valuable commodity) and reset. Dont let one bad date with a fvcked up woman get you down. Delete and move on.

You should take something positive away from every date, even the occasional bad ones.

 

[Kotaix]

The only person who gets her phone number is her "boyfriend". Guys she's dating, they can only reach her through the dating app.

This tells you everything you need to know.

 

[2Rocky]

Listen, you are just getting back out there. Learn from your mistakes (which it seems you did) and just broaden your circle.. wide and shallow....Eventually one will let you get waist deep (if you know what I mean). it's gonnatake some crashes before you figure out the controls. No one expects you to be a perfect DJ out the gate. More options will help a lot....

As to this one, Yeah best to lose her number...

 

[twelveightyone]

I can totally relate to this. I just started dating again as well and my first few dates were absolute train wrecks.

A few points to try to help:

• If she doesn't ask you any questions, then she isn't interested so you move to the next one.
• Always go for at least a kiss on the lips at the end of the first date and if it doesn't go well, then no second date.
• When they ask you to text them when you get home, never do that. You don't want to be texting buddies.
• Keep going on dates. Each time it will get a little better because you'll fix your mistakes from the last one.