Find your leauge and play in it.

[mrgoodstuff]

Women who date trash, are trash. They may be hot but if they are with a loser who has nothing going for them then that should tell you all you need to know. For example, women who date druggies are almost always druggies. Same thing with drunks, criminals, being a moron, etc. Guys only see a nice ass and place far too much value on an otherwise broken, and undateable, woman.

Its what her mindset is attracted to

 

[Spaz]

There's such a thing as social strata. It does exist.

The good news is, in every level of strata there are beautiful women there, so you don't have to worry.

What's most important, is that when a man is at a certain level, he has to project an aura of greatness compared to his peers at that strata.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

promise if she sees you as her equal or even better superior to her, all the games stop.

I dunno about this bruh, there’s some dudes out there that can **** up ANYTHING lol. Plus, there are still dudes who are higher status and looks AND got game, but yet their ***** still tests them. Past the initial lust phase and everything, they’ll ALWAYS give you ****, it don’t matter how good or high status you are.

 

[Hal9000]

Is this why most of the decent looking women you see on OLD seem to have a ton of baggage or past issues? Especially high end HBs on OLD seem to have a ton of baggage because they're using OLD for a reason.

I think so, at least in part. I've gone out with plenty of attractive women who I ultimately couldn't stand to be around for many of the issues I noted above. Sure she's cute but she's also crazy and damaged, primarily due to how she's chosen to live her life to that point.

 

[guru1000]

I like to do away with the word league and go with the word “paradigm.”

A man who once had looks and lost it but still has the confidence, charm, and charisma of a good looking guy will still score hot women.

A rich man who loses his wealth but still carries his steel balls, ambition and resilience will still score hot women if he previously did so.

A man with high status who loses his position but carries the paradigm of a high status guy will still date hot women if he previously did so.

Your paradigm, that is, whom you define yourself to be is the ultimate arbiter of what “league”you are positioned.

That’s why you often see broke, unattractive men with little social standing such as convicts or hoodlums dating hot women.

The exceptions to the “rule” are all around you. Hypergamy is a flawed theory too.

Big paradigms. That’s all you need.

 

[Pandora]

I just had trouble communicating with those dumbasses back home lol, I needed like 15 shots or something to get to their level.

You should come out here when @SoSuave666 does. Players trip. @Pandora too.

Yeh i agree. The DMV is a weird place to date. You go just about anywhere else and its a cakewalk. Anywhere except the Bay Area and LA.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a great thread @cola. Very wise advice. People need to understand the nuances that go into the complexities of social strata. It has a language that you can read if you pay attention.

People in the same strata recognize one another. By mannerisms, style, speech patterns, presentation...it is non verbal to a tremendous degree. Really well calibrated people read these cues and have the versatility to morph a little and adjust seamlessly into the environment but people with that level of subconscious awareness (who make the adjustment effortlessly) are rare.

It’s the paradigm like @guru1000 said. I’ll give an example. I just reconnected on social media with a man I’ve known since 18 as a college freshman. We became buddies and eventually dated for a bit several years after we met. He was athletic (college football defensive back), funny, sexy & masculine & from a great family that was well off. We always just clicked. We lost touch for 25 years.

Our life trajectories are so different. He coaches high school football deep in the ghetto in a major city and runs a center to help educate drop outs. He changes lives in an impoverished community. He is still a physical specimen, still funny and warm & masculine and all that. But I’m in a completely different social arena than him. He’s already told me he would spend the rest of his life with me. And not for material reasons.

But he smokes some weed here and there, lives in a rented 1 bedroom apartment and lives a modest life. But he helps the young people he teaches and coaches and he inspires them to do better for themselves.

I live a different life entirely. Much as I am fond of my friend I’m not sure I’d be happy with his lifestyle. I’m much more successful and ambitious and like a higher end lifestyle...although I deeply respect him because it’s more a calling than a career.

So even though the fondness and connection is there I’m not sure we’d be a good fit. I’m going to think he’s too bourgeois and he’s going to think I’m too fussy and high maintenance (even though men in my strata find me quite easy going.)

Paradigms indeed.

 

[lamath]

There's such a thing as social strata. It does exist.

The good news is, in every level of strata there are beautiful women there, so you don't have to worry.

What's most important, is that when a man is at a certain level, he has to project an aura of greatness compared to his peers at that strata.

You got a very good point there.

There are hot trailer park women and the educated high value guy will have a very hard time with then because its not the same demographic.

This is what happen often when you see a very good looking chick with a guy that look like a bum they are from the same backgroud.... in a way its easier to score from same social group.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

People are doing you a disservice by telling you that you can get girls of a high status if you yourself are low status. I’m here to inform you that there is a such thing as leagues, and it’s quite possible if she is playing games with you, you ain’t in hers.

Do you honestly think a fitness model is going to date you when you have a beer belly, haven’t seen a gym since high school and work at a shoe store? The answer is f*ck no.
There is nothing wrong with finding your speed and sticking with it. You can say the hell with self improvement, continue to eat donuts for breakfast everyday and just date chubby girls who like donuts for breakfast too, and that’s perfectly ok.


If you want high level women, you have to be a high level man. You have to be fit, you have to have a good career, she has to perceive you as on her level and when you she doesn’t perceive you as on her level this is when you get games, flakes, long text response times, wishy washy behavior. I promise if she sees you as her equal or even better superior to her, all the games stop.

The final paragraph is about a new term I’m coining “sympathy closes”. Sympathy closes are when girls are impressed with your boldness and, or are too nice to tell you get the f*ck away from me, you vessel of mediocrity. So they give you their number, may respond to a few texts here or there and maybe even allow you to schedule a date that she never had intentions of going on. I think a lot of the threads we see here with issues in regards to flakiness, hot & cold behavior are results from getting sympathy closes. If she is aeons above the level of the girls you usually date, there is a very good chance it was a sympathy close. Once you get that idea it’s best to end communications and move on.

What this post is not:
This post is not saying you can’t get hot girls. You totally can. You just have to earn them like anything else as life. Don’t let this post fuel your resentment. If you know you want a specific type of girl, and you don’t want her to play games you have to get to a certain level yourself. So focus on gym, career and grooming and your leauge can and will increase.

Handsome millionaires don’t get flaked on.

If only it was this cut and dry.

Everyone gets flaked on. It's easy to internalize a flake, but if you know your trajectory is solid then simply chalk it up to incompatibility. Who knows what she's going through.

I like rollo's idea on this.
Money, status, looks, have at least two and you'll have plenty of options.

I've dated what you would consider higher status women and they pulled me up to their level. The magnitude of their gestures was life changing, and yet they gave so gracefully and with gratitude. No resentment, no conditions, just happy to see me excel. Clothes, houses, connections, cars, nothing but encouragement and inspiration. But these things only bring me up if I choose to come up myself. I can just as easily abuse and exploit the help.

I've also been on the opposite side, dated women of 'lower status', helped them come up, only to eventually realize that I was dating a projection of my imagination, what I thought this woman could be. Sometimes you see the potential in someone you're dating, attempt to inspire them, only to watch them squander it all and take advantage of you because they don't believe in themselves like you believe in them. You become an enabler and have to face reality, that you can only show them the door, but can't make them walk through it. If they don't it's your duty to be the lesson in their life by leaving.

My point is the type of women you pull isn't limited by where you're at on the paradigm/value spectrum. To talk in such absolutes as you have in your OP is a misstep imo. People mistake vibrations/league/value all the time. Even the richest most successful ones. Play the numbers and you can pull hot successful women. You may even be able to keep one around if she's insecure or you start to come up.

You don't come up to get women of a certain caliber. You come up because you want to grow for you. People flock to you and you become pickier naturally because you're guarding your precious time and the momentum you have going. When you're on your game and loving the grind women become super trivial and seem like a drag, doesn't matter how hot or successful they are. The most masculine man changes the world and the chicks/kids he has are nothing by comparison to the challenges he faces in exercising his monumental influence. He inspires them by doing what he's always done, honing himself. He's pragmatic af.

 

[devilkingx2]

People are doing you a disservice by telling you that you can get girls of a high status if you yourself are low status. I’m here to inform you that there is a such thing as leagues, and it’s quite possible if she is playing games with you, you ain’t in hers.

Do you honestly think a fitness model is going to date you when you have a beer belly, haven’t seen a gym since high school and work at a shoe store? The answer is f*ck no.
There is nothing wrong with finding your speed and sticking with it. You can say the hell with self improvement, continue to eat donuts for breakfast everyday and just date chubby girls who like donuts for breakfast too, and that’s perfectly ok.


If you want high level women, you have to be a high level man. You have to be fit, you have to have a good career, she has to perceive you as on her level and when you she doesn’t perceive you as on her level this is when you get games, flakes, long text response times, wishy washy behavior. I promise if she sees you as her equal or even better superior to her, all the games stop.

The final paragraph is about a new term I’m coining “sympathy closes”. Sympathy closes are when girls are impressed with your boldness and, or are too nice to tell you get the f*ck away from me, you vessel of mediocrity. So they give you their number, may respond to a few texts here or there and maybe even allow you to schedule a date that she never had intentions of going on. I think a lot of the threads we see here with issues in regards to flakiness, hot & cold behavior are results from getting sympathy closes. If she is aeons above the level of the girls you usually date, there is a very good chance it was a sympathy close. Once you get that idea it’s best to end communications and move on.

What this post is not:
This post is not saying you can’t get hot girls. You totally can. You just have to earn them like anything else as life. Don’t let this post fuel your resentment. If you know you want a specific type of girl, and you don’t want her to play games you have to get to a certain level yourself. So focus on gym, career and grooming and your leauge can and will increase.

Handsome millionaires don’t get flaked on.

The tricky thing is that you don't decide your own league and your judgement is likely to be clouded anyway.

There's plenty of guys who could do better but they're dumpster diving out of insecurity, and there's also plenty of guys who could stop being incels if they would "settle" for an average normal girl instead of a supermodel.

Thinking a girl is out of your league is dangerous territory, it's easy to assume you need more game when you're ugly, but it's also easy to think that you're just ugly when you really need more game or confidence.

I do agree that if one wants way better girls than they're getting they should improve themselves, but I also think that one should always shoot their shot (while keeping in mind the realistic odds) and that we're not mind readers, we don't know if an HB9 thinks we're a 6 or an 8 til we try.

 

[zinc4]

Disagree with this thread strongly....every woman takes ****s and picks boogers and has nasty blood filled stinky periods complains about stupid sh$t and most are boring as heck in general...no woman is out of my league imo until they invent one that doesn't have these basic bodily functions. I don't care how poor or successful I am am.....women are just women.

 

[devilkingx2]

Then how do you explain these hot chicks with druggies, bums, unemployed dudes, etc?

It seems some of these low life dudes have some way of endearing themselves to wealthier/successful women even tho they themselves are not...examples are lawyers or doctors that are dating said people.

1. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because we think the guy is an ugly loser doesn't necessarily mean that she does. Likewise just because she's hot doesn't mean that she can get the time of day from guys we assume to be "in her league". She could be a massive b!tch and the only person who can put up with her attitude is a thug not afraid to smack her.

2. different people have different priorities. Some girls won't care if you're broke and unemployed other girls won't fuss about height and abs. Etc.

Advice from the old lady:

This is a great thread @cola. Very wise advice. People need to understand the nuances that go into the complexities of social strata. It has a language that you can read if you pay attention.

People in the same strata recognize one another. By mannerisms, style, speech patterns, presentation...it is non verbal to a tremendous degree. Really well calibrated people read these cues and have the versatility to morph a little and adjust seamlessly into the environment but people with that level of subconscious awareness (who make the adjustment effortlessly) are rare.

It’s the paradigm like @guru1000 said. I’ll give an example. I just reconnected on social media with a man I’ve known since 18 as a college freshman. We became buddies and eventually dated for a bit several years after we met. He was athletic (college football defensive back), funny, sexy & masculine & from a great family that was well off. We always just clicked. We lost touch for 25 years.

Our life trajectories are so different. He coaches high school football deep in the ghetto in a major city and runs a center to help educate drop outs. He changes lives in an impoverished community. He is still a physical specimen, still funny and warm & masculine and all that. But I’m in a completely different social arena than him. He’s already told me he would spend the rest of his life with me. And not for material reasons.

But he smokes some weed here and there, lives in a rented 1 bedroom apartment and lives a modest life. But he helps the young people he teaches and coaches and he inspires them to do better for themselves.

I live a different life entirely. Much as I am fond of my friend I’m not sure I’d be happy with his lifestyle. I’m much more successful and ambitious and like a higher end lifestyle...although I deeply respect him because it’s more a calling than a career.

So even though the fondness and connection is there I’m not sure we’d be a good fit. I’m going to think he’s too bourgeois and he’s going to think I’m too fussy and high maintenance (even though men in my strata find me quite easy going.)

Paradigms indeed.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a great thread @cola. Very wise advice. People need to understand the nuances that go into the complexities of social strata. It has a language that you can read if you pay attention.

People in the same strata recognize one another. By mannerisms, style, speech patterns, presentation...it is non verbal to a tremendous degree. Really well calibrated people read these cues and have the versatility to morph a little and adjust seamlessly into the environment but people with that level of subconscious awareness (who make the adjustment effortlessly) are rare.

It’s the paradigm like @guru1000 said. I’ll give an example. I just reconnected on social media with a man I’ve known since 18 as a college freshman. We became buddies and eventually dated for a bit several years after we met. He was athletic (college football defensive back), funny, sexy & masculine & from a great family that was well off. We always just clicked. We lost touch for 25 years.

Our life trajectories are so different. He coaches high school football deep in the ghetto in a major city and runs a center to help educate drop outs. He changes lives in an impoverished community. He is still a physical specimen, still funny and warm & masculine and all that. But I’m in a completely different social arena than him. He’s already told me he would spend the rest of his life with me. And not for material reasons.

But he smokes some weed here and there, lives in a rented 1 bedroom apartment and lives a modest life. But he helps the young people he teaches and coaches and he inspires them to do better for themselves.

I live a different life entirely. Much as I am fond of my friend I’m not sure I’d be happy with his lifestyle. I’m much more successful and ambitious and like a higher end lifestyle...although I deeply respect him because it’s more a calling than a career.

So even though the fondness and connection is there I’m not sure we’d be a good fit. I’m going to think he’s too bourgeois and he’s going to think I’m too fussy and high maintenance (even though men in my strata find me quite easy going.)

Paradigms indeed.

Maybe. Or maybe you are screwing yourself out of one of the best decisions of your life by making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Maybe you'd find those things just don't matter as much as you think they would.

 

[backseatjuan]

It’s all about MONEY, LOOKS, POWER and YOUR PLACE.

You can work on first 3, last one is only inherited. I’m Russian I can not date American elites. Same if you black, some things are not possible.

 

[RangerMIke]

This post is not saying you can’t get hot girls. You totally can. You just have to earn them like anything else as life.

Damn right! It all starts with you, the man. Who you are will dictate the kind of women that want to spend time with you. Self improvement is always the first step. I'm really not the kind of person that doles out self-help advice because I believe everyone knows what it is about themselves they should improve... the challenge is finding the discipline to do it. But I will tell a story, and give some unsolicited advice.

When I was in High School, I would get up early every day and run 5 miles through the neighborhood, I was always the only one out there running before the sun came up. Then one day... I saw Mr. Thomas, a guy that lived down the street. At the time his wife packed up his two kids and left him... The first time I saw him running I laughed inside thinking "Damn, look at that old fat @ss running, he's going to kill himself." He was a FAT @SS... and when he started he could hardly get down the street. I'm amused at my younger self know because "old" Mr. Thomas was at the time 20 year younger than I am now.

Anyway... the next morning he was out there running again... and again... and again. The motherfvcker never quit, and you know what happened... after a year he was running the same course I was, and I got to know him really well. I learned a lot watching Mr. Thomas and I will never forget the lesson. He never b!tched about anything, he knew he had work to do on himself, took action, had the discipline to follow thru, and changed his life. By the time I graduated from high school a couple of years later, the dude had left a job he hated, opened his on sporting goods store, and got himself a fine @ss girlfriend who was a gymnastics teacher at my school. Knowing what your problems are is not even 10% of what is holding people back, 90% is the willingness to suffer the change and take action.

Now some advice: Imagine you have disappeared suddenly from the planet, just vanished... not dead, because that's too dark. Let's just say you just disappeared in the wilderness without a word to anyone. Then do an honest assessment of what would happen to your friends and family if this happened. If your honest assessment is that people would be concerned... but then quickly just move on with their lives, you have a lot of work to do. The impact you have on others is the single most important thing you have to pay attention to as a man. Like it or not, men are defined by their usefulness. You are not going to change this, it's human nature. You have to be social, make an effort to connect with people, in the process of doing this self improvement becomes intuitive. If you are the kind of person that doesn't care what people think of you, you will always struggle at self improvement. I'm not saying to turn yourself into a useful tool, or self-deprecating fool twisting yourself into a pretzel, but you have to have awareness of what others think of you... the rest is just discipline and time to take action.

 

[zinc4]

Wi

League has nothing to do with base bodily functions. It's fine to remember 'Everybody Poops', to avoid pedestalizing, but a guy who can't even get a date from the girls in his AP physics club, probably shouldn't be hitting on the homecoming queen....yet

Hit on every girl you want to bone simple...that's simple....will never agree with you guys on this one. Leagues of women don't exist ....they all operate on the same basic level .....their confidence and percieved value only exist based on how men and society treats them.

Bodily functions like that means humans in general aren't worthy of 'leagues.' Not just women. Leagues in general are placing pedastels imo

 

[sangheilios]

Most incel problem is exactly this , they play out of their league.

Ill agree with LA here its not always easy to find your league, tbh im still not sure where i stand.
Its like i can attract some very hot women sometime and other time have a hard time getting a smile from average one.
Still learning.... imo look is important but status and social skills are far more important

I feel the same way as well. I've been approached and asked out by very hot women in the past, mostly at the gym, so obviously they were attracted to me. However, I've gotten nothing from speed dating events or OLD sites with average and below women. I've approached average or below women here and there and I get nothing from that.

When I was younger this created a lot of issues with my mental health because it would make me question my sanity, like "why the hell am I getting no results with these barely average women but yet I always see them with these ugly goof ball guys?". It got to the point where I just didn't bother at all and did other things with my life.

It wasn't until I moved and got a social life where I started figuring out where I actually was. The fact that I hadn't dated at all was a major issue with these hotter women because I was more or less socially stunted. They're like "this guy is pretty cute but something feels off about him". To put this into perspective I didn't even go on my first date until I was 27.

 

[BadBoy89]

People are doing you a disservice by telling you that you can get girls of a high status if you yourself are low status. I’m here to inform you that there is a such thing as leagues, and it’s quite possible if she is playing games with you, you ain’t in hers.

Handsome millionaires don’t get flaked on.

Post is self limiting. Its akin to saying if you are not in her social circle, you are not sleeping isn’t her.

If a man takes care himself, he should be able to pick up the hottest most famous girl within 10 minutes anywhere in the world.

 

[sangheilios]

"League" is only a way of expressing how one's desires line up with one's options. It's fluid. There's the "any given Sunday" way of thinking, in that your one-nighter standards might be a little more flexible than your dating standards, and so-on for your exclusivity and marriage standards.

I have seen guys punching waAay above their weight class, and would shake my head, as they got shot down, when I knew there were girls who would have been perfectly happy to be with them. Frankly, when I see guys like that, I half admire and half pity them. I admire their swing for the fences gusto, but I know it's propelled by their profound lack of self-awareness. In most cases, they could probably clean up well enough to substantially improve their ranking, if they only knew what it really was.

I'm not talking about a cast system, but you've gotta know your market. I know I have a type; my wife has an impression of every girl I dated before her as a cross between a playboy bunny and a librarian. That's her cartoonish interpretation of my type, anyway. Personally, my tastes are much broader than that, but it fairly describes the types of girls who seem instantly drawn to me, and that's what she notices. So, it's really more of a niche market than a type.

At the end of the day most people more or less settle with those that are relatively on par with them. This spans from things in regards to physical attractiveness but also level of education, background/upbringing, etc. Sure, you'll see some exceptions here and there but that's just what they are, exceptions.

When women are really young, I'm talking teens through early 20s, they seem to purely go for a guy based on his looks and how popular he is. However, it seems like once a woman gets to mid 20s or so she starts valuing things like maturity, degree of ambition, etc.

I feel the only time you ever really see something that goes outside of this is with unusually VERY attractive women typically going for men that are very wealthy (celebrities, billionaires, etc.). However, these women are so rare in the big picture that it isn't even worth mentioning or discussing.

However, I do feel that the dating market is a bit skewed and that many women are a bit clueless as to where they truly are. I have a friend who told me a story a while ago about this fat woman at his work who got set up on a date with a man. She came back to report after the first date and they asked her why she didn't want to see him and her response was that it was because he was fat and gross. The ironic part was that this was coming from a woman who looked just like the guy that she had been set up with haha.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

People are doing you a disservice by telling you that you can get girls of a high status if you yourself are low status. I’m here to inform you that there is a such thing as leagues, and it’s quite possible if she is playing games with you, you ain’t in hers.

Do you honestly think a fitness model is going to date you when you have a beer belly, haven’t seen a gym since high school and work at a shoe store? The answer is f*ck no.
There is nothing wrong with finding your speed and sticking with it. You can say the hell with self improvement, continue to eat donuts for breakfast everyday and just date chubby girls who like donuts for breakfast too, and that’s perfectly ok.


If you want high level women, you have to be a high level man. You have to be fit, you have to have a good career, she has to perceive you as on her level and when you she doesn’t perceive you as on her level this is when you get games, flakes, long text response times, wishy washy behavior. I promise if she sees you as her equal or even better superior to her, all the games stop.

The final paragraph is about a new term I’m coining “sympathy closes”. Sympathy closes are when girls are impressed with your boldness and, or are too nice to tell you get the f*ck away from me, you vessel of mediocrity. So they give you their number, may respond to a few texts here or there and maybe even allow you to schedule a date that she never had intentions of going on. I think a lot of the threads we see here with issues in regards to flakiness, hot & cold behavior are results from getting sympathy closes. If she is aeons above the level of the girls you usually date, there is a very good chance it was a sympathy close. Once you get that idea it’s best to end communications and move on.

What this post is not:
This post is not saying you can’t get hot girls. You totally can. You just have to earn them like anything else as life. Don’t let this post fuel your resentment. If you know you want a specific type of girl, and you don’t want her to play games you have to get to a certain level yourself. So focus on gym, career and grooming and your leauge can and will increase.

Handsome millionaires don’t get flaked on.

While i agree, the best playboys and game is evident in one's ability to swing up. I have seen some stuff. The caliber of game hitting above ones SMV.

Game recognizes game.