Financially Unsuccessful Guy Facing Crisis in Confidence With Women

[Stavrogin]

I've been attending a particular kind of grad school for the last couple of years. I'm now $100,000 in debt, and my job prospects are BLEAK. I've been reading about guys spending over half their (meager) paychecks just to pay off student loan debts. I went back to school so I could be successful. Now I'm facing the possibility of being even worse off! I feel like I've wasted a lot of years (college and grad school) that should've been used gaining job experience. Employers see my resume and think I'm a bum.

Meanwhile, most guys my age are well into their careers. I'm really nervous that I won't be able to compete with them for women. I don't see why a woman would go out with a guy who is unsuccessful or less successful than others (including her), has a ton of debt, and has accomplished zero in life. If I looked like a GQ model (which I don't), I wouldn't worry as much. Well, I'm worrying a lot! I'm "nice," but everyone here knows that women couldn't care less if a guy is "nice." Even if I used master DJ skills, a woman will find out I'm unsuccessful and unaccomplished. So, if you were in my shoes, why do you think a woman go out with you? How would you get her to go out with you?

 

[3countriesPlan]

Here I am thinking about attending grad school and worried about the possibility of wasting time and going into debt as well. Here's what I think man:

You may be low on the totem poll compared to those already on the road to success but you can also get back on that road and walk it one step at a time by showing the desire and passion in improving your life that woman so love to see. If a woman can see that you are moving in the right direction she will accept you as you currently are. Shake it off and begin to chip away at that debt while getting a job with some upward mobility. You're only 30, you can be alot better off in only one or two years or hard work.

 

[sodbuster]

With all that schooling,did you ever Maslow pyramid[I think]in psychology class? The very bottom rung is physical security-food shelter,clothing etc. The next rung up is sex/reproduction. Until you get the bottom rung handled or think you have it handled,women aren't going up to the sexual relationship level with you[not saying a casual fling is out].
Get a job, or 2. You are young enough to be able to handle it. My brother is a 45 year old farmer and routinely puts in 70 hour weeks for 9 months of the year. THe money from your second job[and the money you save from not having time to spend it] can help pay down debt.
Rely on the principal of"this much"[hold your thumb and finger about an inch apart], as told to me by a friend employing over 100 people. If you are "this much" better than the rest of the stock boys, I'll move you up to cashier. If you are "this much "better than the rest of the cashiers, I'll make you a shift supervisor."TM" -> department manager. "TM" --> store manager.

 

[The Bat]

The problem here isn't that you are financially unsuccessful.

"What?"

Yep. The problem is that you have self-esteem and materialistic issues.

Your self-esteem is so low that you're comparing yourself to other successful, well-established career guys in your age bracket. Your materialistic issue is that you are equating women's attraction to you with how much money you're carrying around in your pocket or with your professional title.

Now, I'm not saying that a complete bum (and you are not a bum...are you living on the street?) or a stock boy with no money is going to be able to attract a lot of hot women.

I'm saying that you're placing too much value on having a certain amount of money or having a certain professional title. You're comparing yourself to other guys, and this is a big No-No if you're trying to gain confidence with women.

You have to find confidence within yourself first. And to do that you have to say to yourself that you've got the balls to go back to grad school to broaden your education. Even if it's costing you some money now, post-graduate education is always an investment. Think of it as that way.

Until you start to feel good about yourself, where you are in life right now, and where you're headed, your confidence problems with women will not be solved by having certain amount of money or having a professional title.

 

[STR8UP]

Perception is reality.

Carry yourself like a poor loser and that's how you will be treated. Carry yourself like a wealthy king and watch the red carpet get rolled out in front of you.

 

[Colossus]

STAVROGIN-

What field are you in? What degree do you have, or will have?

I think you have a legitimate concern. That is a lot of debt, and if you don't have any solid prospects of earning a living to repay this debt, you are going to be stressed the hell out about your financial situation and your life in general. Financial stress can easily bleed into your personal life.

Sorry, but any advice about "acting the prize" or something along those lines is a load of crap. You cant imagine your way out of debt or into financial security, and pretending you are a king isn't going to accomplish anything other than make you appear delusional. I am adamantly against the whole "prize" mentality unless you have something concrete to back it up. That's not to say you cant have pride in who you are as a person--because you should--but your anxieties about the future are based on REAL consequences of living in debt with little appreciable income.

In regards to women, I think you are associating career/financial success with women to an unrealistic degree. As another poster said, as long as you are working hard and moving in the right direction you'll be fine. Focus more on moving up and chipping away at those loans.

 

[STR8UP]

STAVROGIN-Sorry, but any advice about "acting the prize" or something along those lines is a load of crap. You cant imagine your way out of debt or into financial security, and pretending you are a king isn't going to accomplish anything other than make you appear delusional. I am adamantly against the whole "prize" mentality unless you have something concrete to back it up. That's not to say you cant have pride in who you are as a person--because you should--but your anxieties about the future are based on REAL consequences of living in debt with little appreciable income.

Someone hasn't been studying their 48 Laws of Power...

Law 34​

Be Royal in your Own Fashion: Act like a King to be treated like one​

The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you. For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others. By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown.

Law 37​

Create Compelling Spectacles​

Striking imagery and grand symbolic gestures create the aura of power – everyone responds to them. Stage spectacles for those around you, then full of arresting visuals and radiant symbols that heighten your presence. Dazzled by appearances, no one will notice what you are really doing.

You obviously haven't been around enough to understand the power of appearances.

I have been on both sides of this equation.

I have been conned by others who appeared to be someone they were not, and I have also reaped the benefits of having other people give me perhaps more credit than I deserved at the time.

Do not underestimate the power of appearances!

 

[Warrior74]

Financially I'm unsucessful. But I'm working towards changing that. I try to dress my best everyday and stay focused on my goals. I can't worry about women, either they want to be with me or they don't. I gotta do what I gotta do for me and my daughter, not for some chic. Girls are for fun, and if they ain't fun they can fock off.

 

[Colossus]

You obviously haven't been around enough to understand the power of appearances.

If you say so buddy.

I have been conned by others who appeared to be someone they were not, and I have also reaped the benefits of having other people give me perhaps more credit than I deserved at the time.

Where is the honor in this?

These 2 "laws", while valid for their purpose, still don't negate what I said. Nothing is going to be solved for our OP by walking around with some veneer of sanctimony. He is still a guy with a mountain of debt and allegedly poor job prospects. So he pulls some tail here and there with his act---that's no different than a PUA.

As long as he keeps his head up and moves forward with things, there is no need for him to explain or validate himself to a woman because of his monetary or career roadblocks.

The prize mantra IS a load of crap unless you have some substance to validate it.

 

[#41]

The prize mantra IS a load of crap unless you have some substance to validate it.

Yeah -- the difference between confidence and self-delusion is the substance on which is a belief is based.

I'm right there with the OP on this one -- I went to law school and acccumulated a significant amount of debt. The job I landed out of school is prestigious, but pays only marginally better than most people make with a bachelor's degree. As such, half my monthly salary goes to paying off debt.

It's hard to do all the things necessary to compete with for the attention of women when you can't afford to buy nice clothes, drive a nice car, or live in a nice part of town.

But, you power through -- really, in today's economy, you're lucky just to have paid work.

 

[jophil28]

The prize mantra IS a load of crap unless you have some substance to validate it.

\

This is true...
Perception is just that - your own interpretation of the events in your life. On the other hand ,Reality is what is actually occuring to you, and around you, and is not altered by or conditional upon on your wishes, illusions or desire for it to be otherwise. It is what it fukking is, and not what you want it to be. .

Now, is there hope for change - yes indeed ,but change requires planning and intelligent execution. Posturing and strutting and portraying yourself as a king when you are a pauper is not going to accomplish diddly UNLESS you ALSO embark on a wealth creating plan of action.

The "48 laws of power" is merely that latest faddish pulp which appeals to the gullible and the lazy who are seeking a short cut through life's maze. The "Secret " was last years dreamy mush which separated a million gullible grunts from $40.

 

[STR8UP]

If you say so buddy.

Unless you grew up very quickly you have no way to understand what I'm talking about. You have to have lived on both sides of the fence to really grasp the magnitude of perception being reality.

These 2 "laws", while valid for their purpose, still don't negate what I said. Nothing is going to be solved for our OP by walking around with some veneer of sanctimony. He is still a guy with a mountain of debt and allegedly poor job prospects. So he pulls some tail here and there with his act---that's no different than a PUA.

A guy who walks around with the attitude that he has been defeated IS defeated. If I say to myself "I suck. I have nothing going for me. Women don't like me" well guess what? You DO suck, and no decent,sane woman is going to want to touch you with a ten foot pole. I've been there.

Incidentally, this post wasn't about his debt, it was about his debt and lack of job prospects holding him back from hooking up with women.

Thats not a REASON for not being able to get with women, that is an EXCUSE.

I personally don't discuss finances with women early in a relationship and I doubt the OP does either, so how is a woman going to reject him for his mountain of debt and lack of job prospects? She ISN'T. She won't have a chance to, because he has already rejected HIMSELF. He won't even get his foot in the door!

As long as he keeps his head up and moves forward with things, there is no need for him to explain or validate himself to a woman because of his monetary or career roadblocks.

Okay....so who said anything about explaining or validating?

I'm sensing that this is another one of those situations where someone has some warped views on money.

The prize mantra IS a load of crap unless you have some substance to validate it.

I have met plenty of people who carry themselves well who don't have the body of a greek god or the bank account of an arab sheik. And guess what? They do pretty damn good with women.

And people call ME a pessimist....

 

[STR8UP]

The "48 laws of power" is merely that latest faddish pulp which appeals to the gullible and the lazy who are seeking a short cut through life's maze. The "Secret " was last years dreamy mush which separated a million gullible grunts from $40.

To compare The 48 Laws of Power to "the secret" is laughable.

Have you read the 48 laws?

I have. And I also sat through part of the secret DVD that my friend tried to get me to watch. I can assure you there is a HUGE difference.

The 48 Laws is based on research and cites historical examples of people who have achieved massive wealth and power through the observation of the laws, and others who have paid the price for ignoring them.

 

[jophil28]

To compare The 48 Laws of Power to "the secret" is laughable.

Have you read the 48 laws?

I have. And I also sat through part of the secret DVD that my friend tried to get me to watch. I can assure you there is a HUGE difference.

The 48 Laws is based on research and cites historical examples of people who have achieved massive wealth and power through the observation of the laws, and others who have paid the price for ignoring them.

If you say so.

 

[jophil28]

Striking imagery and grand symbolic gestures create the aura of power – everyone responds to them. Stage spectacles for those around you, then full of arresting visuals and radiant symbols that heighten your presence. Dazzled by appearances, no one will notice what you are really doing.

You obviously haven't been around enough to understand the power of appearances.

This advice is appropriate for those who are in the movie makimg business..

To others, it is merely an encouragement to be a grandstanding fake.
It exhorts trickery - visual magic, and celebrates deception as legitimate stategy.

Awful advise. The tactics of the snake oil salesman.

 

[steve38]

I relate to you bit Stav....the thing is you have to quit competing with the other guys. You have your own attributes that the other guys dont, so play into them. NEVER make it a game of who is best. YOU are best. But you gotta find that girl that thinks like you. That is the ONE that thinks you are best. It may take a while, but it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. DJ lite, for tonite.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear StavRogin,
Mate don't worry about your financial doldrums,thats only temporary....I think you you have given up and found a culturally based excuse....Ho Hum....who gives a stuff whether you are too scared to move out of of your comfort zone?....Well I do,can I give you an example to instill a little backbone into you....A really good looking Phillipino girl broke in on my Dancing scene about twelve months ago...I was otherwise engaged,but many of my friends tried to crack this little honey....To no avail...the general perception was...Oh yeah this chick is after a Rich guy....but no,after one guy after another gave it a try then gave up on her she was seen keeping company with a chap I have known in a casual way for maybe five years,he is what we call a No Hoper....about her age,average height,stooped,round shouldered,a lousy dancer,balding,of Greek origins,he speaks with a pronounced accent,comes across as rather sleazy....this guy to my certain knowledge has been unemployed for five years,has no trade....he lives in a Welfare flat,and lives on unemployment relief....but this young Achilles cracked her,they are an item,and she seems happy as a Pig in Shvt...So work that out....

 

[bsthatcher]

STR8UP is absolutely correct in that most men (such as myself ) who have that indescribable "x factor" that draws in women are merely benefiting from appearances and social proof.

The money problem is not an issue until it directly affects the woman you're dating, which is most often only in a married relationship.

I can also affirm that 48 Laws of Power is not a bunch of quackery as is "The Secret." The Machiavelli inspired book is based more on historical fact rather than popular psychology.

The answer is obviously to avoid sub communicating your financial problems to women and keep on dating them as before, all the while quietly working to relieve those problems.

 

[STR8UP]

STR8UP is absolutely correct in that most men (such as myself ) who have that indescribable "x factor" that draws in women are merely benefiting from appearances and social proof.

If you ever lived this, you would know it to be true. If you haven't I don't expect you to understand.

For a guy who has never experienced the awesome power of "appearances" it might seem that someone who employs this to their advantage is always "on the dark side". To those of us who unwittingly stumbled upon this "power" (read- we are not con artists) it can be quite a blessing to be cognizant of its benefits.

The money problem is not an issue until it directly affects the woman you're dating, which is most often only in a married relationship.

In other words, someone who says "I can't get women because I'm in debt and don't know if I will be able to get a good job" is only making stuff up in his own mind. Thank you.

The answer is obviously to avoid sub communicating your financial problems to women and keep on dating them as before, all the while quietly working to relieve those problems.

That's hitting the nail RIGHT on the head...

This advice is appropriate for those who are in the movie makimg business..

To others, it is merely an encouragement to be a grandstanding fake.
It exhorts trickery - visual magic, and celebrates deception as legitimate stategy.

Awful advise. The tactics of the snake oil salesman.

And also a tactic of a man of great power.

This is one of those cases where if a leader were to employ such a tactic to his people's advantage, he would be hailed a hero, whereas the "snake oil salesman" will be shunned as a dishonest trickster.

Once again going to illustrate my point of how PERCEPTION is reality.

Now do you see?

 

[Warrior74]

The answer is obviously to avoid sub communicating your financial problems to women and keep on dating them as before, all the while quietly working to relieve those problems.

this is the key. for the orginal poster and for myself. Example. Right now my car is the shop. So instead of telling a girl I don't have a car right now (which really, you NEVER want to do that), I tell her another truth, which is, I'm busy with my business and should have some free time next week. Which is true. I don't have to lie and I don't have to expose myself.