Fight Club: A Lesson In Masculinity. This changed my life.

[MrJibbles]

"Losing all hope is freedom". "Once we've lost everything, we're free to do anything." "This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time." "You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your ****ing khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. "

Jesus H. Christ, this movie is chock full of life-changing quotes and epiphanies. Every message it conveys is more antisocial than a diabolical orgy full of Charles Manson-followers, but, by God, Chuck Palahniuk had something really important to say here. The entire book (and film adaptation, at that) is a lesson on what it TRULY is to be a man.

I particularly enjoy the little dialogues between Edward Norton's character and Tyler Durden (despite the twist at end; I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it).

I'll start with this one: "We're a generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is really the answer we need. " Tyler tells us to take women off the pedestal. Our mothers raise us, many of them often single, advising us to be "nice" to girls because, with all their motherly-love and blindness to the instinct-based, emotionally-driven mechanisms of attraction, it was all they could do, given their situations. We all know deep down inside that girls are attracted to "bad boys" and turned off by "nice" behavior. By "nice", I don't mean altruistic endeavors, respect, compassion or generosity, but rather spineless, weak-minded, sycophantic, White Knight, emotional-tampon-permitting, bending-over-backwards-for-women actions that are condoned by most of the "true players" on this site, but supported by the fairy-tale Disney-like media. Tyler Durden does what he wants, when he wants, and doesn't let Marla, who is essentially his b*tch, get in the way of his full-blown, exaggerated manifestation of manliness, as expressed by his dedication to the ideal of what Fight Club represents. He knows that feminism has brainwashed men to suppress their sexual drives, and represents the exact OPPOSITE of what society has forced us to repress: our unfettered masculinity at the height of its uninhibited power.

In one scene, Lou, the owner of the bar where Fight Club takes place, comes downstairs and calls out Tyler Durden on "using" Lou's bar for Fight Club. Tyler says "you should join our club", but Lou beats the living daylights out of him instead, while Lou's wimpy-*ss crony nervously points his pistol at all the Fight Club members in order to weakly maintain a frame of unstable "control". Tyler then gets up, grabs Lou, and spits blood all over him, proclaiming "YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I'VE BEEN, LOU!". In this scenario, what it means to be a "true Alpha male" is demonstrated perfectly. Lou represents what society believes an Alpha male is: a man who has climbed up the corporate ladder and gains a false sense of superiority and confidence by possessing materialist, capitalist-based property and goods. Tyler, however, maintains his frames, laughs and disregards what Lou says to him, and ultimately takes control of the situation until Lou is scared sh*tless by Tyler's socially-deviant, violence-resistant antics. In this case, Tyler, by way of not giving a single f*** what anyone thinks about him, despite living in destitute, low socio-economic conditions, represents a TRUE alpha.

Just for the note, I am only 21 years old and a virgin. I understand that I may lack insight, maturity, and sexual experience, but I still believe Fight Club's prevailing, underlying motif is What it is to be a man.

To those who have read the book and/or watched the movie, let me know what you think. Is Tyler Durden the epitome of manliness?

What we can learn about both ourselves and women from Fight Club?

 

[Sam Bravo 13]

your on the right way

 

[FairShake]

I actually thought it wasn't a celebration of violence and nihilism but a condemnation of them.

I think it was a commentary about lonely, aimless people and their need to belong. When Brad Pitt turned into a cult leader (or a highly disciplined, has all the answers "father figure) in the name of freedom I think it encapsulated that fact perfectly.

Edit: There was a time I bought into the same Nietzsche ubermench theme of life that Fight Club touches on. But then I had a career, made some friends, reconnected with the good members of my family, and had sex. Life is alot better when you actually let it be. When you figure out really what does make you happy these dark themes go away so fast. Keep your eye on that prize my friend and things will develop the way they should.

 

[Tictac]

"Losing all hope is freedom". "Once we've lost everything, we're free to do anything." "This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time." "You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your ****ing khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world. "

Jesus H. Christ, this movie is chock full of life-changing quotes and epiphanies. Every message it conveys is more antisocial than a diabolical orgy full of Charles Manson-followers, but, by God, Chuck Palahniuk had something really important to say here. The entire book (and film adaptation, at that) is a lesson on what it TRULY is to be a man.

I particularly enjoy the little dialogues between Edward Norton's character and Tyler Durden (despite the twist at end; I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it).

I'll start with this one: "We're a generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is really the answer we need. " Tyler tells us to take women off the pedestal. Our mothers raise us, many of them often single, advising us to be "nice" to girls because, with all their motherly-love and blindness to the instinct-based, emotionally-driven mechanisms of attraction, it was all they could do, given their situations. We all know deep down inside that girls are attracted to "bad boys" and turned off by "nice" behavior. By "nice", I don't mean altruistic endeavors, respect, compassion or generosity, but rather spineless, weak-minded, sycophantic, White Knight, emotional-tampon-permitting, bending-over-backwards-for-women actions that are condoned by most of the "true players" on this site, but supported by the fairy-tale Disney-like media. Tyler Durden does what he wants, when he wants, and doesn't let Marla, who is essentially his b*tch, get in the way of his full-blown, exaggerated manifestation of manliness, as expressed by his dedication to the ideal of what Fight Club represents. He knows that feminism has brainwashed men to suppress their sexual drives, and represents the exact OPPOSITE of what society has forced us to repress: our unfettered masculinity at the height of its uninhibited power.

In one scene, Lou, the owner of the bar where Fight Club takes place, comes downstairs and calls out Tyler Durden on "using" Lou's bar for Fight Club. Tyler says "you should join our club", but Lou beats the living daylights out of him instead, while Lou's wimpy-*ss crony nervously points his pistol at all the Fight Club members in order to weakly maintain a frame of unstable "control". Tyler then gets up, grabs Lou, and spits blood all over him, proclaiming "YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I'VE BEEN, LOU!". In this scenario, what it means to be a "true Alpha male" is demonstrated perfectly. Lou represents what society believes an Alpha male is: a man who has climbed up the corporate ladder and gains a false sense of superiority and confidence by possessing materialist, capitalist-based property and goods. Tyler, however, maintains his frames, laughs and disregards what Lou says to him, and ultimately takes control of the situation until Lou is scared sh*tless by Tyler's socially-deviant, violence-resistant antics. In this case, Tyler, by way of not giving a single f*** what anyone thinks about him, despite living in destitute, low socio-economic conditions, represents a TRUE alpha.

Just for the note, I am only 21 years old and a virgin. I understand that I may lack insight, maturity, and sexual experience, but I still believe Fight Club's prevailing, underlying motif is What it is to be a man.

To those who have read the book and/or watched the movie, let me know what you think. Is Tyler Durden the epitome of manliness?

What we can learn about both ourselves and women from Fight Club?

------------

You're young enough. Join the military, preferably the Marines.

They will take away everything that's been inculcated into you in your 21 years and replace it with the 'necessaries' to be a man in a feminized world for the rest of your life.

I never had a 'bad day at the office'. After being a combat infantryman, there is no such thing.

 

[Iceberg]

------------

You're young enough. Join the military, preferably the Marines.

They will take away everything that's been inculcated into you in your 21 years and replace it with the 'necessaries' to be a man in a feminized world for the rest of your life.

I never had a 'bad day at the office'. After being a combat infantryman, there is no such thing.

I know plenty of military men who could snap me in half like a toothpick, but are total AFCs for their women.

 

[Orchard]

Dude. It was a satire.

 

[MrJibbles]

------------

You're young enough. Join the military, preferably the Marines.

They will take away everything that's been inculcated into you in your 21 years and replace it with the 'necessaries' to be a man in a feminized world for the rest of your life.

I never had a 'bad day at the office'. After being a combat infantryman, there is no such thing.

I had once considered enlisting in the army, knowing that it would help me develop self-discipline and "toughness", qualities which I severely lack. I realized, though, that it just wasn't for me. Besides, I have long history of mental health issues and am on antidepressants, so the military would probably reject my application. I also know that, being emotionally-unstable, putting a gun in my hands would probably be a bad idea.

All this being said, the military teaches you how to take orders and kill people. It doesn't teach you anything about women. Like another poster mentioned, some soldiers are rugged and masculine in the traditional sense of the word, but still total AFCs towards females.

 

[Groovy]

MrJibbles, did you get my messages for u bro?

Yeah, Fight Club was cool, it wasn't this:
"HEY I AM BRAD PITT, I AM COOL, WATCH MY MOVIE SO U BECOMES ALPHA MALE". Altough it was a nice movie!

 

[r0cky]

I know plenty of military men who could snap me in half like a toothpick, but are total AFCs for their women.

I agree with this. Same thing at the gym, all too often the buffest guys at the gym stand along the wall at the club.

 

[Tictac]

You guys are hysterical. If you think that "Fight Club" is a Don Juan movie, you've got problems.

If your entire existence is about 'learning about women', don't sweat being a man, because it won't ever happen to you.

Jibbles' post wasn't even about women. But that's all you can see.

Sad that.

 

[Poonani Maker]

Because Mr. Jibbles hasn't even fvcked a woman, everything he theorizes is built on sand, not on a cement slab. You FEEL like a man, from the inside, in your breath and sternum, nose, mouth, eyes, and face, after you've fvcked a woman doggie, missionary, whatever, not once, not twice, not for a brief moment because you cannot hold your load, but multiple times and for multiple DEEP satanic leg-wrapped 69'd, sweaty, doggin'-that-as5-out while-holding-her-hands-from-behind slug-fests on her po0n. Many different positions give you the MAN-animal-beast feeling that comes from within, that makes you a sexual creature forever on the make. Anything outside of being in a woman is not alpha, just theoretical, and laughable.

Women have been denying us our God-given right to their po0n. The power-shift has transgressed across all spectrums. Look at TV (I never do, but I hear about it - women own it), look at the workforce, look at the court system ALL tipped in their favor now. Who brought them to this level of power? Why the elite males of course. The ones in power back then and now know that if they pull the plug on the lower-to-mid-status male that will mean even more pvssy for them, THAT CAN BE BOUGHT. The elites' genetics will prevail while ours (much better physically-looking men) will be winnowed out. Also, the insane 9s and 10s that these fewer and fewer elite keep buying up and making babies with will end up de-beautifying these very insanely beautiful women that they have No business being with (if not for their money) according to Nature's rules and nature's Pre-Cambrian far-reaching dominance of all things on this Earth. Many of what's going on among western humans is UNNatural due to the stealing-of-money factor, due to economics of the day. It's all come down to that, this unnatural spin to women to only want us for our money by the elites (lawyers, doctors etc etc etc) who either worked down their knuckles to the bone to acquire the money and power (thus sacrificing their physical appearance in the process) or where Born with ugly genetics and had no other choice but to get wealth (by stealing, every which way they could) to get the best pvssy. It's been learned, it's been programmed for our western women to only jump on the dong with the most dough and not the dong that is attached to the best looking face or man of moral character or outward giving, caring or righteousness.

 

[MrJibbles]

Anything outside of being in a woman is not alpha, just theoretical, and laughable.

Women have been denying us our God-given right to their po0n. The power-shift has transgressed across all spectrums. Look at TV (I never do, but I hear about it - women own it), look at the workforce, look at the court system ALL tipped in their favor now. Who brought them to this level of power? Why the elite males of course. The ones in power back then and now know that if they pull the plug on the lower-to-mid-status male that will mean even more pvssy for them, THAT CAN BE BOUGHT. The elites' genetics will prevail while ours (much better physically-looking men) will be winnowed out. Also, the insane 9s and 10s that these fewer and fewer elite keep buying up and making babies with will end up de-beautifying these very insanely beautiful women that they have No business being with (if not for their money) according to Nature's rules and nature's Pre-Cambrian far-reaching dominance of all things on this Earth. Many of what's going on among western humans is UNNatural due to the stealing-of-money factor, due to economics of the day. It's all come down to that, this unnatural spin to women to only want us for our money by the elites (lawyers, doctors etc etc etc) who either worked down their knuckles to the bone to acquire the money and power (thus sacrificing their physical appearance in the process) or where Born with ugly genetics and had no other choice but to get wealth (by stealing, every which way they could) to get the best pvssy. It's been learned, it's been programmed for our western women to only jump on the dong with the most dough and not the dong that is attached to the best looking face or man of moral character or outward giving, caring or righteousness.

You say anything outside being a woman is alpha, then go on to complain how all the economical-alphas are snatching up and sleeping with the women that then men with less money are vying for. A sense a contradiction here.

We have to understand that the institution of marriage was actually created by the "beta" male, as a buffer against polygny, to prevent the alpha male who would otherwise take up more of the females, to be socially-coerced into only possessing one. This would leave a larger number of females to be matched up with "beta" males, in a world where a good 80-90% of women would otherwise be sleeping with 10-20% of men (by way of Pareto's Law, or the 80/20 rule). In a world where females are biologically-programmed to be attracted to a more instinctively-"alpha" man, women, due to the culture we live in, are now drawn to the economically-successful "betas" (i.e. doctors, lawyers, etc.) rather than your typical, run-of-the-mill, archetypal "bad boy" biker covered in tattoos (i.e. a "true" alpha). In that sense, over the past few hundreds years, the middle-to-upper class, bourgeousie "beta" has prevailed in designing a cultural institution that disfavors the traditional beast-of-a-man "alpha". In such a world, a genuine born-Alpha is more likely to be found in prison than in a long-term relationship with a worldy-woman plugged forever into the Matrix.

In that regard, our culture, particularly over the past 30 years or so, has succeeded in giving a new-age "beta" male what would normally be received by a traditional alpha: more women. The role reversal is switched, and the "traditional" beta becomes a "socialized" alpha. The media, forever influenced by a capitalistic-evolutionary arms race and the acquisition of material goods by means of a corporate lifestyle, has women chasing after those with the most resources. In our hunter-gatherer days, where no such world existed, "resources" would include food, social connections, shelter, and physical protection, and be indicated by physical strength, natural exhibition of leadership, etc. Ever since the Industrial Age started, however, the best man proved his worth by way of showing of his collection of acquired material goods, and therefore his worth was indicated by the amount of money he had.

Although a few of you are trying to dispute my argument that Fight Club is about masculinity, I believe what I have just said supports my original point, particularly when we examine the dichotomy between Lou and Tyler Durden. Lou is a corporate "beta", disguised as an traditional Alpha by way of having acquired an inauthentic frame of confidence, and is fat, ugly, and, deep-down inside, a coward, protected by a bodyguard with a gun. Tyler, however, is a beta in that sense that he is extremely poor and has no corporate or economic-influence, but a "traditional" alpha in the sense that he is physically-fit, good-looking, a leader of men, and maintains his confidence, built by standing his ground against the pressures of a superficial-society and having the balls to mock Lou even after he has beat the sh** out of him.

I disagree that "anything outside of being in a woman is not alpha, just theoretical, and laughable". This quote, first of all, implies a subscription to the "putting pVssy on a pedestal"-mentality, by having "alphaness" depend on sexual conquest, rather than social conquest (i.e. your socio-economic status, social-influence, how much you have earned and worked for, etc).

Also, the fact that I'm a virgin and you feel superior by bragging about being in a bunch of sexual positions with some chick doesn't take away from my argument. It's merely an ad hominem attack, using my virgin-status to discredit my hypothesis, without any evidence to support a rebuttal your claim that "everything theorize is build on sand". A man is not a man because he has fvcked a woman. AFCs fvck from time to time, but are still completely clueless when it comes to the natural-mechanism of male-to-female sexual attraction. Masculinity can be defined in a variety of ways.

 

[don't]

what, really, is "manly" about a bunch of sloppy punch-throwing, and LETTING people mark you up, when you could break his leg and never let him get withing hand distance of you? Actually, unarmed conflict went sillly about 1,000,000 years ago, when the first ape-man swung a stick or threw a rock.

 

[Poonani Maker]

In such a world, a genuine born-Alpha is more likely to be found in prison than in a long-term relationship with a worldy-woman plugged forever into the Matrix.

Good points Mr Jibbles. Still, until you get that Roar, the primitive natural ability to Roar from within (which mostly comes from fvcking women or just one woman if you're monogamous), then I do not believe you can be truly alpha and understand how to calibrate yourself to a women deeply, intimately or relationally. There's too much disconnect if you've never Connected at the deepest level with a woman i.e. in her deep.

I scare a few women, just my presence does, cause I'm a sexual being (it pours from my skin, my eyes, my mouth; I exude it), and I make no apologies for it. Some women Never get over it, that I'll never tone down my sex drive just cause she's standing there, or just cause she's 18, 19, or 20 (Legal). I don't Ever come across as her "Friend," only her lover, Even If she is dog ugly or fat as Hell (although she may see me cringe at the sight of her if I can't hide it too well - sometimes I can't hide my dis-attraction to her if she's just SO bad).

 

[djokovic77]

The only thing I took from fight club was Brad Pitt's skinny-yet-buff physique in that movie, which I have emulated successfully. Other than that, I gleaned no particularly important message. I guess I am Jack's Lobotomy.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Or, we could view the whole thing as some guy who typed up a story in his office about a sick, suicidal guy and his hallucinations.

Back to the real world...

 

[Who Dares Win]

Not sure whos right in this thread but op deserves rep to succeding in creating a constructive thread, wheter he is right or not he give us reader the opportunities to read different opinions on the topic and get our own idea.

 

[loveshogun]

Food for thought: Chuck Palahniuk is openly gay.

I still think he's a brilliant writer, and still has a lot to say on the nature of being a man.

Kind of throws a wrench into your perception of masculinity, though. Honestly, besides aggression, there isn't much of "masculinity" that isn't defined by society.

Back in ancient Greece, it was considered masculine to have a young male pupil who was your understudy. Who you also had butt sex with.

Also, for anyone who didn't know, the movie Old School was a satire of Fight Club.

A lot of weird things appear to you when you spend enough time in academia.

 

[Iceberg]

Food for thought: Chuck Palahniuk is openly gay.

It's funny you said that. I was going to mention this as well.

I have nothing against gay people, but the way these guys talk about Fight Club, they're probably imagining this guy as a 7 foot tall "alpha" viking who f**ks 10 girls by noon. I'm like, nah buddy...he bangs dudes.

And Fight Club is a good story. I think it's more about societal constraints than "being alpha". It's not as if Chuck was kicking back in his lounger like, "I'm sick of women and all these feminazis! I'm gonna write a book about being a MAN!!"

But what do I know.

 

[loveshogun]

It's funny you said that. I was going to mention this as well.

I have nothing against gay people, but the way these guys talk about Fight Club, they're probably imagining this guy as a 7 foot tall "alpha" viking who f**ks 10 girls by noon. I'm like, nah buddy...he bangs dudes.

And Fight Club is a good story. I think it's more about societal constraints than "being alpha". It's not as if Chuck was kicking back in his lounger like, "I'm sick of women and all these feminazis! I'm gonna write a book about being a MAN!!"

But what do I know.

You're super cool and alpha, Iceberg. Can we make out?

Seriously, though, your whole reading of Fight Club can change based on that. I mean, really, it's a love triangle between the narrator, Tyler, and Marla.

"I wanted Tyler. Tyler wanted Marla. Marla wanted me..."

It's in there if you read it.

HOWEVER - I will say all of Chuck's points about being non-consumerist and taking some responsibility for the risks in your life (remember, the narrator's job is a risk assessment/business-side insurance adjuster) are solid gold.