field report: she brought her sister along

[ogre]

I posted about this church babe I was chasing after a few weeks ago.... these was some communication problems with her cellie cutting out on me mid-sentence. Then I tried to track her down at her church and she wasn't there. So I had to put her in the back of the line for awhile.

I called her last week and like magic her phone seems to be working now. So we made a lunch date for today at her church. I just showed up, and like last time, she was MIA. so I went home, called, got the voice mail, left a message.

she called back within 20 minutes. (that was a surprise) we had a nice little chat and we cleared up whatever confusion and she agreed to meet me in about an hour @ church.

when I arrived (on my motorcycle, of course) there she was outside waiting for me - but she brought her elder sister along. (good thing she didn't bring her mamma) I dunno if her sister was there to play chaparone or chauffer or both, but we all went to the diner in her car.

Convo went well, gave her about 70% of my attention and 30% to sis, who seemed fine with that, she was kinda just hangin' back. Got into some meaning-of-life stuff. That does not make for light conversation, but it seems to go over OK with church types. still I would've been better off with a little more listening and less talking and maybe steer more towards seduction convo. So far the girls seem to like me. But I made a few blunders and I think I got wussy.

list of blunders:

1)
we made a date for this coming wednesday. at her home. she lives with mom & sis. I'm not sure how I'm gonna play this BUT the reason I list it as a blunder is because according to Doc Love's system you should never discuss date #2 during date #1. you're supposed to leave the girl totally in the dark for 5-9 days and then call her up out of the blue and ask her out again. Also according to the Doc a telephone is to be used solely for closing a date and never just to chat. The reason I disobeyed these rules is #1) many of you on this forum dispute Doc's system and #2) due to my bad luck with cellphones I don't want to risk a good thing to go down the toilet on account of bad phone service. Still I may have made myself appear too "available" and also failed to create the tension and drama of keeping a girl guessing about my IL.

2)
when it came time to pay the check we went dutch but I was a little on the cheap side. total bill was $26. I payed $10 she payed $20 and covered for her sister who ate only a muffin. I think it would've at least been a good gesture to lay out an extra buck for the waiter 'cause I usually tip well and no one likes a cheapskate but I just wasn't thinking straight, I was too mesmerised by my hot date. Neither of them seemed to notice about the money either, I just hope those thoughts aren't festering in their minds like it is mine.

3)
they gave me a ride back from the diner to the church where my bike was parked. I thanked them for chauffering me around. was that bad? I dunno but they thanked me for my company. so maybe it's OK.

4)
I was a bit long on the goodbyes, didn't want the date to end, but they had to go pick up their brother. So I think I wussed out.


Awright guys, I have 2 days to get ready. Prolly wa a really bad idea to make a date at her home, as her mamma is gonna be there. biggest obstacle is gonna be isolating her. My plan is to continue to play the nice, wussy available guy for now, then bail, go work some other girls, create a little tension, try to draw her out from her family.

your suggestions?

 

[RiceHapa888]

to me ogre, it seems like you are conceding to much to her.. I mean she brings her sister along and you guys ride in her car to the diner and then you make a date with her at her house with her mom and sis both there? don't play the role of nice available wussy guy...is any woman looking for a nice available wussy guy? I doubt it. as for her being MIA when that happened what did you do- by calling her up and having a nice 20 minute chat you are showing her that she can mistreat you...wanna isolate her? get her out of her house- take her somewhere, just the two of you- if she doesn't want to then NEXT her.......

 

[Walden]

It's easy for something this simple to be over analysed.
Play it and see how it turns out , good luck.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

IMO..I'd respectfully cancel the Wednesday date. Tell her you are tied up at work/school or that Thursday you have a big project at work/school that will take all your time out on Wednesday.

Her IL in you is relitavely high or she wouldn't invite you over to meet her parents. But GEE'ZUs...let me get this straight. Date number 2 and you are already meeting the parents?!?!

What's her idea of date #3...wedding ring shopping at Tiffany's?!

Regardless if she is church going or a total hoochie..your idea to isolate her is correct. Many guys on here will tell you that her bringing her sister along on the date shows signs of low IL. I disagree with that assumption because I've dated many girls who rarely go on dates bring their friends or family to get their opinion of you.

In this situation, I'd cancel the Wednesday date and set up a time during the weekend where you can isolate her from the sister. Be C/F and bust her balls a little.

"Hey girl, I had fun on our threesome date with you and your sister. But you know, I like the one on one action and find you much more attractive than your sister. Let me make up the cancelled date. This Saturday I pick you up at 5ish...catch National Treasure movie at 6..then dinner at 8...I'll bring you back home at 10ish so your parents wont make you bring a chapperone with us again."

Have the date and time schedules laid out so she knows exactly what to tell her strict parents. Church going type girls are money in the bag if you play them right. They've been tied down to their parent's rules sooooo long that they are dying to find a man to change it up for them.

On your date...bust her balls hard core.

"Do your parent's trust you to cross the street?"
"I bet your parents will give you a curfew at 12am when your 40 years old."
"What is the WILDEST thing you've ever done that your parents don't know about"

Test this girl's freak zone. Chances are that she's attracted to you because you are everything her parents don't want for their daughter.

 

[ogre]

Hmmm...all good points

ricehappa:

she did call me back and was really nice to me. I don't think the MIA thing was intentional.

ricehappa, hpnotiq:

I didn't concede anything to her. the date at her home was my dumb idea. but now I am having apprehensions about it. but I don't think backing out is a good idea. Sets a bad trend. I may change the plan to pick her up at home then go somewhere else. dunno yet.

two things I should make clear is that this girl is the jesus freak in the family and I'm going along with it. so it's not like anyone's making her go to church. The other thing is that she is Latina, and unlike white girls she may not be in such a rush to piss off her parents. on the contrary, she may be looking for mamma's seal of approval.

In any case I'm gonna try to isolate her and try some C&F, test her freak zone as you say. If she puts up too many barriers I'm gonna get scarce. I'm not gonna NEXt her but she will go to the back of the line for awhile.

 

[Metaphysikal_Lover]

Why do you use the screen name of Ogre?

 

[ogre]

'cuz I am old, ugly, short, skinny, pot-bellied, physically weak and baggie-eyed. I look like Ted Kaczynski except my head's too big and my legs are too short. My personality is very strange. I am very late in getting into the DJ game. I spent most of my life as a PHL, (pathetic hopeless loser) which is like an AFC but worse. "average" would've been an improvement in my case. Do you know what it's like to go for YEARS without getting laid? Men have gone psycho over less. Do you know what it's like to be standin' on the corner and when folks in their car see you they roll up the windows and lock the doors? So I have a lot of catching up to do if I am ever gonna be a DJ. Let's just say if I can do this it'll be proof that anyone can. anyone. No excuses.

 

[Rob]

I would've agreed with hypnotiq until you brought up that "this girl is the jesus freak in the family." That sort of changes things. So in light of that

"My plan is to continue to play the nice, wussy available guy for now, then bail, go work some other girls, create a little tension, try to draw her out from her family. "

sounds goods.

I thought you were *****ing out but, considering the circumstances, you seem to be on the ball. Your intstinct seems good so play it out.

Good luck. Since you've 'got' the Latina... try pulling off an 'aroundtheworld'

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

My gut tells me that this woman is trouble. Not that she's a 'bad girl' but because she sounds like a woman that can not say no (which is normally a good thing ). I think this woman is female version of a 'nice guy.' She goes out of her way NOT to say 'no.'

The thing that stand out MOST for me is that I do not think her IL is high at all. I know that most of you think that she wouldn't go out with Ogre or invite him to her house if she wasn't interested but come on guys, you're attempting to put MALE LOGIC in to a FEMALE situation (square peg, round hole ).

I seldom take what a woman says for more than face value. We all have known women to say one thing but mean another. How do determine the truth? Her actions (or lack of), and this woman's actions tell me that she isn't interested. Consider the following:

1.) Not available via her cell - Yeah, there could have been a problem with her phone, but if her IL was high wouldn't she have contacted Ogre to find out if he had tried to contact her?

2.) She flakes for a date A SECOND TIME!!! - Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! People do things consistently only if there is a payoff for them. What is this woman's payoff, we don't know, YET.

3.) She's at the date with her sister! - Now there was no fair warning and I doubt that she had talked up her sister as "Someone you've gotta meet!" That does not show integrity which is a key characteristic for a 'good' woman (thank you Doc Love for teaching me that). Plus it seemed obvious that sis was only a tag-a-long and not there because she wanted to do something the two of you were doing. I wonder if she was "late" for your date because her sister wasn't available, hmmmmmmm...

4.) She goes "Dutch." - A woman paying her own way is normally a good sign. One way I test her interest level is by saying "How about I pick up this time you get it next time" if I'm pretty sure that her IL is VERY high or I will say "Why don't you pick up this time and I'll get the next" if I feel her IL isn't very high.

Another thing to note is that she picked up her sister's tab as if she owed her something, hmmmmmmm.

5.) She offers you to come over to meet her parents - WHY???!!! Is it for their approval? Is it because they are a couple of KICK @SS people who make a yearly trek to Sturgis? Is this a test? And then, why can't she see you one on one?

Does any of this seem truly logical to you guys? My gut tells me that Ogre has expended more than enough energy with little payback on this one.

Here's a suggestion to test her IL but if you decide to go forward, it should be only one of several (you guys know that I hate tastes and I'm quick to NEXT a woman but Ogre's not me). The first test is to follow -HPNOTIQ-'s suggestion of canceling her request to "Meet the Fockers" Set up a one on one date, something that you only have TWO tickets for so she can't invite sis, mom or Grandma Gertie. If she accepts she has made it through the first test determining her IL.

Wait a second... Now I'm feeling as if I'm putting in too much effort for this chick which my gut says is not worth the effort. I'm ending my post until I get some feedback from you guys. Am I being too critical again or does this make sense?

 

[ogre]

OK, ok. maybe going to her home is a bad idea. but it was MY bad idea. I asked her if she had a (musical) keyboard at home. The plan was to do some voice-coaching. or something like that. I asked her if she has a home phone #, since her cellie seems to be problematic, and she said no. why she agreed to have me come to her home I have no idea. unless she is a female version of a wuss.

I just left a message for her saying "slight change of plans". I am gonna see if I can weasel her out of the house to catch a movie. I don't mind picking her up at her home and saying hi to mom and sis, maybe even do some songs, but I need to spend some quality one-on-one with her or else I'm gonna bail.

" 1.) Not available via her cell - "

Yes she does have a problem with her phone, but then again I usually don't leave messages. Let's see if she returns the message I just left.


2.) She flakes for a date A SECOND TIME!!! -

no, only once. the last time we did not actually make a date. But I am completely baffled over the church thing. she says she sings in the choir for morning mass at church A, then goes to afternoon mass at church B. Church A has not had a choir since July, so I don't understand why she would tell me this. You're right, this is a bad sign.


3.) She's at the date with her sister! - Now there was no fair warning

that's true. she should've said something. that was sneaky. maybe it was her way of letting me know that I am FZ-only. if she had truly high IL she'd be alone. If she just needed a ride I have wheels (2 & 4)

4.) She goes "Dutch." - A woman paying her own way is normally a good sign. .

OK I won't obsess over this. glad I went dutch.

5.) She offers you to come over to meet her parents - WHY???!!!

no that was my dumb idea. see above. and it's only mamma. mamma ditched daddy back in Mexico.

wishful thinking on my part says it might not be as bad as Francisco says. She may be just clingy with her family. it's a dysfunction, a sign of immaturity, and I've seen it before. I'm curious to see how she and mamma interact. But thank you for pointing out the warning sings. More likely this girl is stringing me along, for what reasons I don't know yet. bottom line is I'm 40 and she's 20. So she prolly don't see me as BF material, maybe just thinks I 'm like some kind of good Christian family friend type. This is starting to look like a scene from the movie "American Beauty". so if this flops the least I can do is walk away without looking like a perv.

 

[Walden]

She's Xian and Latina. MAybe the famly thing is normal for them.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Ogre out of curiosity, what's your attraction to this girl other than looks. I apologize if you told me before but I'm not feeling why so much effort for a woman that doesn't seem to be paying off.

The point is that you made some minor mistakes BUT you've been able to point them out yourself. I say use this as a learning experience and start with a clean slate.

 

[ogre]

Francisco are you kidding? I should be so lucky as to score a babe like this. I have to kick myself to keep from getting a bad case of one-itis. And the jesus thing is a big + for me since I'm into religion/sprituality and all that. I even brought my bible to our date.

It's not like I don't meet other girls. I just came back from 4 days of filming the new Spielberg production of "war of the worlds". I was one of a cast of about 1000 extras. Girls galore. All ages. it was a blast.

yeah my effort-to-payoff ratio is not great, but it's better than what I have been getting, so it's progress. She is way more fun than the last date (see: lousy date) So I think I should at least see how this pans out. some of you DJ's can pick up girls as easily as picking up groceries or taking a pis$. I'm not there yet. I'm an old dog and my wussy ways run deep and are hard to break. I need a lot of practice.

 

[PocoDiablo]

I think you made some slip ups, and the date with her mom is just bad, but you are learning from your mistakes and that is what it is all about.

Be a man. Hold yourself up to your date. Show up and be a gentleman to her sister and mother. Next date, however, you need to meet somewhere (no rides) and leave the famn damily at home.

I bet she is a different person when she's not being watched by her family. I know I am. And unless you really get to meet her, you will never know who she is and if you are right for each other. If she can't see you alone, I would move on.

 

[Metaphysikal_Lover]

Originally posted by ogre
'cuz I am old, ugly, short, skinny, pot-bellied, physically weak and baggie-eyed. I look like Ted Kaczynski except my head's too big and my legs are too short. My personality is very strange. I am very late in getting into the DJ game. I spent most of my life as a PHL, (pathetic hopeless loser) which is like an AFC but worse. "average" would've been an improvement in my case. Do you know what it's like to go for YEARS without getting laid? Men have gone psycho over less. Do you know what it's like to be standin' on the corner and when folks in their car see you they roll up the windows and lock the doors? So I have a lot of catching up to do if I am ever gonna be a DJ. Let's just say if I can do this it'll be proof that anyone can. anyone. No excuses.

Then why hold on to that energy by naming yourself this way. Your name is self-defeating. You don't have to call yourself prince charming or something like that but you might consider something that reflects your new mission. Like DJ on da rise...or Becoming..now that is a good one...it shows that your becoming something which is positive and not a constant negative reminder of things that you have held on to.


I'm not saying call yourself something that your not like casanova or some other kinda lame azzed name like that...

Think about it. Seriously...think about it!

 

[ogre]

Naaah I like Ogre.

 

[1utfan1]

Originally posted by ogre
"I asked her if she had a (musical) keyboard at home. The plan was to do some voice-coaching. or something like that."

Is this 'date' under the pretense of a music lesson? Your not doing the doomed to fail 'start as a friend and move into dating' are you?



"Let's see if she returns the message I just left."
Exactly, if she doesn't you don't waste anymore time on her.


"Church A has not had a choir since July, so I don't understand why she would tell me this. You're right, this is a bad sign."

Big time! Hopefully she won't call back.



"maybe it was her way of letting me know that I am FZ-only. "
YUP

 

[ogre]

To flake or not to flake. That is the question. I have about an hour to decide.

worst case scenario: I show up, she ain't home, and her mamma wants to know who the fvck I am askin' for her daughter.

This, in my experience, is what I have learned to expect from women.

If she's actually home I'll take that as a good sign.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by ogre
Francisco are you kidding? I should be so lucky as to score a babe like this...

Alright, since this is what you truly want I'll give you another suggestion. Consider seeing other women.

WHAT???!!! Yeah, you heard me, see other women. Why? Because you need practice and you know it. Frankly you have a lot going against you for sarging this woman but you can overcome that with practice. The thing is, you shouldn't practice with her, it could set you further back.

Try flirting with other women just to pick up on your conversation skills and the other DJ nuances. Don't worry about closing, just focus on your interactions with them. Not feeling the pressure to close should take away the anxiety if there is any.

Engaging other women will also keep you from having complete one-itis. Also, it seems as if this girl wants to take things slow so expend you new found DJism on some other women as not to overwhelm her. Calm, cool, collected and controlled is the way to go.

 

[ogre]

yes I know. I talk to chicks all the time, I would love to SEE other women, but at the moment I'm not SEEING any. Not for lack of trying. I sent some emails and made some calls, but so far this chick is the only game I have working right now. and she's a goodie. I'm aware that putting all my efforts into one chick is a sure recipe for disaster, I'm as nervous as a school boy and I know that's really really bad. I just don't have any other game going at the moment. except for the chick with the beat-up car and rocks for brains. as soon as I'm done getting her car sorted out, I'm nexting her.

anyway, gotta go. it's time. stay tuned, and thanks for everything.

what is "sarging"?