Feeling like a b@stard...which means I'm doing right.

[Jariel]

Have you ever felt those twinges of guilt when you're spinning plates? You're talking and flirting with different women and letting each one feel special, and you can see their interest rising and their hopes building. You can't help feeling like a bit of a selfish as$hole at times.

Or when you're engaging in conversation with a woman, leading her on and she's getting attached and keen, yet all you really want to do is fvck her.

However, one thing I've learned is that these twinges of guilt are actually a very good guide to keep a former "nice guy" and AFC on the right track with women.

You see, by our nature, most of us good, honest, decent guys want to do the right thing by everyone. But time after time we end up getting burned. The women we invest our time, efforts, hopes and emotions in end up chasing a guy who offers them so much less.

This should tell you one thing: our natural good guy tendencies are not working for us when it comes to women. Therefore, we need to go against these tendencies, act counter intuitively and push out of this destructive comfort zone. As a result, you are going to feel uneasy on some level - usually some level of guilt or even fear that what you're doing will drive the woman away.

These feelings are good as it means that you're finally breaking the cycle of being a nice guy and losing the girl - the cycle that keeps bringing you misery, pain and disappointment.

The most repeated words of advice on this site are "let go and move on" and "spin plates". These are of key importance to becoming successful with women and your whole game will transform and improve naturally by doing just these two things. And yet, so many guys refuse to act on this advice because it goes against their natural nice guy habits. They want to keep reaching out to the girl they're obsessed with, win her over the Hollywood way, treat her kindly and talk to her exclusively. The idea of deleting her number or ignoring her is unthinkable because the fear of losing her is too much to bear. They would rather cling to their old cowardly ways that keep failing over and over, than to take a leap of faith. Likewise, they can't stand to spin plates because that is wrong, deceptive and goes against what their mothers and all the women in their lives taught them. They would rather obsess over one girl and drive her away than risk hurting her or keeping her on a backburner while they explore their options.

There's a famous saying, "if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll continue getting what you've always gotten".

Right now I'm spinning several plates and a few of them seem to be getting very keen and attached. Yeah, I feel guilty, especially towards a couple of them who bought me Christmas presents, but that guilt has always guided me to success with women.

I'm not preaching that you should cheat on your wives or long term girlfriends and I'm not promoting bitterness or hurtful behaviour against women. I'm simply saying that you must do what is right for you! Put yourself first, be a little selfish, take some risks, and feel that discomfort as you break out of your comfort zone and leave your "nice guy" traits behind.

 

[LP700-4]

Lol. I was just thinking about this last night as I was texting two girls at the same time. Spitting the same game against them and they each thought they were special and somewhat exclusive to me. Made me feel like a total a$$hole. Lol.

 

[orbion2013]

man i would feel no f@cking guilt spinning plates!

i have done it in the past & always had success with woman...

even with my recent ex, when i was spinning plates & giving her very little of myself, she was at her best behaviour...

but at some point, these girls do get fed up & will end up dumping you... then if you get her back, you might resort to dropping your plates & trying to be nicer, more loving and caring...

then what? she walks all over you


this is what happen to me & i believe the same to you jariel...

 

[Dgwizdal]

man i would feel no f@cking guilt spinning plates!

i have done it in the past & always had success with woman...

even with my recent ex, when i was spinning plates & giving her very little of myself, she was at her best behaviour...

but at some point, these girls do get fed up & will end up dumping you... then if you get her back, you might resort to dropping your plates & trying to be nicer, more loving and caring...

then what? she walks all over you


this is what happen to me & i believe the same to you jariel...

I believe you didnt handle getting back together properly. Probably reunited to soon and didnt start doing "nice" things sparringly and randomly; you rushed in and supplicated. All you needed to do was tip the scales a tiny bit after Atleast 3-4 months of immediate no contact and work your way back in being the same guy you were when she dumped you as she was still attracted but felt you were too much of a d*ck. You must keep the attraction as high as it was when you were spinning plates and give her just enough rapport to make things complete for a LTR.

You can't rush in after getting the boot for being a jerk or her attraction to you will diminish fast.

 

[gravityeyelids]

Women are cold, heartless b!tches. Not even because they want to be. Many of them are by choice. But most of them are just simply able to rationalize their cruel, manipulative behavior using some sort of convoluted girl-logic based on emotion. Whatever you feel guilty about doing as maybe the 20% percentile of guys, the majority of women have done without even batting an eyelash. The sad part is, the things you feel guilty about doing....if you told that to a group of girls, they would eternally condemn you as a bastard and an *******.

The bottom line is, whatever "guilty" thing you're worried about doing towards a woman....power through it. because i can guarantee they have done that same thing to you, often times something worse. That's not even me being misogynistic. That's me being realistic. Women can be beautifully kind and selfless, and in the same stroke be completely cruel and manipulative. I truly believe it is in their nature. It's a part of their survival.

One time I overheard a girl say "i know I cheated on him. But i didn't love him anymore. So it's okay."

Hmmm......Right. Okay. What kind of f*&^ed up logic is that? No man would say something like that. We have honor. If we're going to f*&^ over a woman we're completely aware of what we're doing and the implication of it. Women need emotion and circumstance to blame it on. Don't get me wrong. Anyone (man or woman) is capable of cheating given the right circumstance. However, the way each of the sexes go about it is far different. Just something to think about before you start feeling guilty about your actions....

 

[Poop1337]

I'm looking forward to spinning plates and having multiple girls on a DTF schedule. I will feel no guilt what so ever. In fact the only guilt I may feel is the time I wasted years in my LTR that I've only been out of months. An LTR where I believe I could build a history with a girl only to have it all go to **** for no reason what so ever. Over for nothing. Well I've learned my lesson and once I get back to my former self I won't make the mistake of settling down. I do want kids some day I'm 30 but reality is a girl you spend years with will just hate you more and more each day till she makes you so miserable you dump her or she just leaves you.

 

[Jariel]

but at some point, these girls do get fed up & will end up dumping you... then if you get her back, you might resort to dropping your plates & trying to be nicer, more loving and caring...

then what? she walks all over you


this is what happen to me & i believe the same to you jariel...

But there lies the problem. We resort back to our good guy nature and shrink back into our comfort zone to avoid that feeling of unease - the fear off loss or the guilt that comes from being selfish.

If we had remained as we were and continued to put our own interests first, these women would never have walked over us. This is a lesson we need to learn.

All we need to do is look at our exes as an example. Most guys will say that their exes have walked all over them, have been selfish, and I know this rings true with you especially...and yet, we still love them and think about them, and even take them back. So clearly, acting in a self-serving way does not kill attraction. It often increases it.

 

[Atom Smasher]

You see, by our nature, most of us good, honest, decent guys want to do the right thing by everyone. But time after time we end up getting burned. The women we invest our time, efforts, hopes and emotions in end up chasing a guy who offers them so much less.

This should tell you one thing: our natural good guy tendencies are not working for us when it comes to women. Therefore, we need to go against these tendencies, act counter intuitively and push out of this destructive comfort zone.

Jariel, this is one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. You've perfectly articulated how we wish we could be nice, decent men, just as we try to be with each other, yet we can't because we get destroyed for it.

What have women become, when we need to lower ourselves in order to even get attention from them?

Repped, obviously.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jariel again."

 

[Johnny Alias]

Great post. Many of us need to learn that the lessons we were taught to be little gentlemen growing up as boys were CRAP. Women simply aren't playing by the same set of rules.

It's human nature. We want what we can't have.

For women who are thrown decent chivalrous men in their faces on a daily basis they look down at us because we are in HUGE supply. Would you rather have a mcdonalds hamburger or tbone steak? Be the tbone.

Fact is they burn... BRIGHT. Really bright. For a while. They're more desirable than money, cars, power, whatever. What's worse is they know it!

They want the bad boy they think they can tame. They want to change us. They want that challenge!!!!!

You are giving them what they want. Excitement. A hunt. Something that isn't easy. Try not to feel too bad, but also have an end game. What's your ultimate goal in all this? Marriage, LTR, a kid? If you don't have one now when will you? What's your timetable?

Find that gal that will work for your goal. That's spinning plates. So you don't get locked down with one that could take YEARS away from your life... since you're the nice guy, she's the bad girl, and you're trying to fix HER.

Not a great deal. Believe me I've blown a lot of time doing that.

Don't be a huge a$$hole to the girls. Just be indifferent. Be in demand. Be a challenge.

 

[Dgwizdal]

Great post. Many of us need to learn that the lessons we were taught to be little gentlemen growing up as boys were CRAP. Women simply aren't playing by the same set of rules.

It's human nature. We want what we can't have.

For women who are thrown decent chivalrous men in their faces on a daily basis they look down at us because we are in HUGE supply. Would you rather have a mcdonalds hamburger or tbone steak? Be the tbone.

Fact is they burn... BRIGHT. Really bright. For a while. They're more desirable than money, cars, power, whatever. What's worse is they know it!

They want the bad boy they think they can tame. They want to change us. They want that challenge!!!!!

You are giving them what they want. Excitement. A hunt. Something that isn't easy. Try not to feel too bad, but also have an end game. What's your ultimate goal in all this? Marriage, LTR, a kid? If you don't have one now when will you? What's your timetable?

Find that gal that will work for your goal. That's spinning plates. So you don't get locked down with one that could take YEARS away from your life... since you're the nice guy, she's the bad girl, and you're trying to fix HER.

Not a great deal. Believe me I've blown a lot of time doing that.

Don't be a huge a$$hole to the girls. Just be indifferent. Be in demand. Be a challenge.

THIS. REPPED

 

[Renegade357]

Good post. I'm going through the same thing. I've never been a plate spinner before. In the end I hope to find a keeper.

 

[Jariel]

One of the girls/plates I've been seeing just uploaded some Christmas photos with her friends. Uh oh! Turns out one of the friends in her photo was someone I dated a couple of months ago. She was really into me, but I was still on the rebound from my ex at the time and rejected her.

Kind of amusing really.

Lol. I was just thinking about this last night as I was texting two girls at the same time. Spitting the same game against them and they each thought they were special and somewhat exclusive to me. Made me feel like a total a$$hole. Lol.

haha, yep, I actually use many of the same lines, same jokes and anecdotes with each of them.

I felt really bad last Valentines day when my ex printed out lots of our emails and our texts for an album she made for me. To her, our conversations and my flattery was all unique and special, yet secretly, I had said the exact same things to a dozen other women beforehand.

 

[Mr_Stinky]

I remember it was weird for me when I was texting lines, verbatim, to multiple women at the same time. They all felt they were special. The all felt like I was only interested in them. But this is part of the necessary screening process to see the true nature of these women and decide which one to pick. Having the ability to pick who I pursue was SOOOO alien to me just a couple years ago.

 

[Renegade357]

How do you deal with the more aggressive plates that text you all the time always want to see you ect? I have a feeling one of my 3 is going to be really hard to keep distance from soon.

Also, how do you cut a plate loose? Do you pull the old fade away or do you just be up front about it?

 

[dbot]

I don't know you but I'd wager your feelings of guilt are genuine and probably well deserved. You probably feel guilty because you are misleading and taking advantage of these women, yet you attempt to justify your actions because women may have hurt you in similar ways in the past. So you continue to "spin plates" and deceive girls for your sexual gain, slowly hating yourself more and more every day until you are completely empty inside, with no amount of sex being able to fill the void.

Jariel, I'm not judging you and I know you're not trying to be hurtful or bitter. I'm simply saying that your conscience is telling you something, and you can try to ignore it, but it will eat at you and build up and make you a miserable person if you don't address it.

Listen guys. Women can do heartless things. But now that we've learned more about how they think and behave, we need to be men and rise above it. The good news is that we can still have everything we want and more, while being true to ourselves.

I have several fruitful relationships with wonderful girls, and while I'm closer to some then others, I'm emotionally involved with every single one of them. Every girl I'm with is treated as a separate relationship. Even if it's just a one night fling, I put everything I have into it, emotionally and physically. Sound difficult? Fuck yes it is. I don't hide anything. These girls know the situation, they have feelings for me and I reciprocate them. I send them texts when I'm thinking about them or buy them gifts when appropriate. If I know one of my girls is having a bad day I'll surprise her and take her out. I love the fuck out of them.

Feelings are the currency of life. You may think you need to protect your heart and stay detached, but if you ever want to win big at this game, you have to bet it all. You have to dive in head first and know that you're going to take some punches, but in the end the ride is worth it. When you are truly loved (and loved by many), you will rise to higher levels. You will achieve more as a man than you ever could without that warmth on your side.

I have a challenge for all of you plate spinners reading this. Just once, the next time one of your girls comes over for a booty call, instead of mindlessly fucking her and passing out, I want you to hold her and fuck her and kiss her and lay with her like she's the love of your life. Even if she generally annoys the shit out of you, I want you to honestly try to love her during the short time you spend together. Pay attention to how she responds and how she feels after the experience. More than likely she will be glowing with warmth and happiness, and I'd be willing to bet that you'll feel pretty good about yourself as well.

These experiences build up inside of you subconsciously. I'm not into hocus pocus bullshit, but you do give off an energy that reflects the net result of your inner feelings. I cannot explain it, but I feel like even when I don't say or do anything, people are sort of drawn to me... more than ever before (it wasn't always like that). It's never been so effortless for me to meet and connect with wonderful, beautiful women.

Conversely, when you feel that twinge of guilt because you know the girl you're with is giving you more than you're giving her, know that these experiences will stay with you and take their toll.

 

[scudge]

I have several fruitful relationships with wonderful girls, and while I'm closer to some then others, I'm emotionally involved with every single one of them. Every girl I'm with is treated as a separate relationship. Even if it's just a one night fling, I put everything I have into it, emotionally and physically. Sound difficult? Fuck yes it is. I don't hide anything. These girls know the situation, they have feelings for me and I reciprocate them. I send them texts when I'm thinking about them or buy them gifts when appropriate. If I know one of my girls is having a bad day I'll surprise her and take her out. I love the fuck out of them.

Feelings are the currency of life. You may think you need to protect your heart and stay detached, but if you ever want to win big at this game, you have to bet it all. You have to dive in head first and know that you're going to take some punches, but in the end the ride is worth it. When you are truly loved (and loved by many), you will rise to higher levels. You will achieve more as a man than you ever could without that warmth on your side.

Preach!

A lot of people on this forum really need to read Models...
or just stop f*cking around with crazy women.

 

[Renegade357]

I'm not trying to lead anyone on. I give all the girls I meet a fair chance. If it doesn't work out I'm still willing to hang out and have fun with them and I don't make promises like they're the one for me or anything like that. If they can't handle that I'll cut them loose.

The problem I've had in the past is I used to try to date one girl at a time. That caused me to miss a lot of opportunities with other women who could have been a better match long term. I'm not making that mistake again. I'm dating multiple women until one of them proves worthy to take me off the market. The ball is in their court really.

 

[Jariel]

I'm not trying to lead anyone on. I give all the girls I meet a fair chance. If it doesn't work out I'm still willing to hang out and have fun with them and I don't make promises like they're the one for me or anything like that. If they can't handle that I'll cut them loose.

The problem I've had in the past is I used to try to date one girl at a time. That caused me to miss a lot of opportunities with other women who could have been a better match long term. I'm not making that mistake again. I'm dating multiple women until one of them proves worthy to take me off the market. The ball is in their court really.

I second this completely.

I'm not purposely manipulating girls out of bitterness towards past rejections. I'm recognising that what I've been doing, investing in one woman and giving too much of myself is not working for me, so I need to make a change.

I've done the plate spinning thing many times before and it's usually while I'm doing this that one particular woman shines through and this is how I've met my exes.

Like Renegade said, they all have their chance. But I'm not going to waste time on one girl who may flake or lose interest, when I could be missing out on meeting someone right for me. Besides, it's all about that abundance mindset. When you don't worry about rejection or losing your chance with someone, your confidence really shows and you become more attractive to women.

The feelings of guilt and discomfort are just symptoms of change, of breaking old habits.

 

[Renegade357]

Jariel,

You and I are on the same road. We both just got crushed by our exes and after a good mourning period it's time to hit the warpath again. We don't want to be here but we have no choice. We've experienced the alternative. It's not pretty. Good luck dude and enjoy the ride! I know I will.

 

[Jariel]

You and I are on the same road. We both just got crushed by our exes and after a good mourning period it's time to hit the warpath again. We don't want to be here but we have no choice. We've experienced the alternative. It's not pretty. Good luck dude and enjoy the ride! I know I will.

Indeed! I think we are lucky in a sense because a lot of guys don't know what to do after a break up. They get broken down, lose their confidence and don't know how to rebuild it or get back in the game, whereas we know what we need to do to move forward and we can learn from our experience.

I know that spinning plates has always worked for me in the past and has even brought long term girlfriends into my life, so I know that's what I need to be doing.

Let's hope 2014 is gonna be a great year where we look back at our break ups with absolute gratitude!

How do you deal with the more aggressive plates that text you all the time always want to see you ect? I have a feeling one of my 3 is going to be really hard to keep distance from soon.

Also, how do you cut a plate loose? Do you pull the old fade away or do you just be up front about it?

I've had/got a few of those at the moment. In terms of the texting, I'll just keep them waiting until I'm ready. Sometimes I'll get 2 or 3 in a row, but I'll reply when I've got time. This goes for the non-aggressive plates too. When I'm spinning plates, I am a lot more laidback when it comes to replying and I don't think in terms of strategy at all. Compared to my ex or former oneitis girls, I see a big difference there as I just wanted to text, talk or see them at every opportunity.

When you get into this abundance mindset, I've noticed you see a lot of your former mistakes and poor mindset a lot more clearly.

As for cutting loose my plates. I'll sometimes fade away, but if they persist I'll give them the old "I'm not quite over my ex yet and don't want to mess you around" speech. Most of them are really understanding and it's a good way to keep them on the backburner so you can go back to them if you change your mind.