F*ck the economy.

[Alle_Gory]

I'm tired of hearing about the financial sector and the employment situation. It's all a house of cards, it's built on bullsh*t. Shuffling paper around and buying and selling junk made cheaply in China. Is this how people contribute and live? By being middlemen and obstacles in the flow of money contributing almost nothing. I see very little creation and true effort.

Maybe we need a big contraction, maybe we need high prices of oil so people won't commute and put suburbs in pristine woodland. Personally I would like to have kids some day and I want to show them what a forest looks like, and what nice villages and old farmhouses look like. I don't want to show them endless streets of little grey buildings stuck in a little grey bubble of smog and noise and bums who hassle you for a dollar. That's not how people should live. It lack elegance, purpose and time and space to do whatever you want to do.

Even the financial bailouts. I think they are fantastic, why? Because the easiest way to destroy someone is to give them everything they want. These corporations are now shadows of their former selves because they are given free monopoly money. They don't need to hire forward thinking individuals and people who care about products and the health of the company. They can hire suits and people who use many words to say nothing at all. When the money dries up, the diseased companies will self-implode in a spectacular show of emotion and desperation. It will be glorious. And hopefully there will be enough healthy ones left surviving in the ashes to take over and do things right.

 

[speed dawg]

Man I'm right there with you in this thinking.

 

[Cheeks]

I'm tired of hearing about the financial sector and the employment situation. It's all a house of cards, it's built on bullsh*t. Shuffling paper around and buying and selling junk made cheaply in China. Is this how people contribute and live? By being middlemen and obstacles in the flow of money contributing almost nothing. I see very little creation and true effort.

Maybe we need a big contraction, maybe we need high prices of oil so people won't commute and put suburbs in pristine woodland. Personally I would like to have kids some day and I want to show them what a forest looks like, and what nice villages and old farmhouses look like. I don't want to show them endless streets of little grey buildings stuck in a little grey bubble of smog and noise and bums who hassle you for a dollar. That's not how people should live. It lack elegance, purpose and time and space to do whatever you want to do.

Even the financial bailouts. I think they are fantastic, why? Because the easiest way to destroy someone is to give them everything they want. These corporations are now shadows of their former selves because they are given free monopoly money. They don't need to hire forward thinking individuals and people who care about products and the health of the company. They can hire suits and people who use many words to say nothing at all. When the money dries up, the diseased companies will self-implode in a spectacular show of emotion and desperation. It will be glorious. And hopefully there will be enough healthy ones left surviving in the ashes to take over and do things right.

Everything you said is ace, man. Right there with you.

 

[ArcBound]

But how is the inevitable economic implosion going to end up for the average person?

 

[Bible_Belt]

But how is the inevitable economic implosion going to end up for the average person?

Good question. Everyone has their own guesses.

We'd probably see a massive contraction of global trade. We'd either have to start producing the things we actually use, learn to use what we do produce, or more likely, just do without a lot of conveniences and luxuries. The percentage of people not working in the US right now is roughly 50%. That would go to 80-90%.

Food would take on a whole new meaning. When Yugoslavia collapsed in the 90's, 50% of the people were surviving only off sustenance agriculture. Right now in the US, the price of farmland is skyrocketing. Americans don't know what it's like to go hungry; when that happens, our concept of the importance of food will change very quickly.

Another thing would be a near halt of government services. Road maintenance, trash, sewer, fire, and eventually police service would all disappear. The more independent you are, the better.

 

[metoo]

It will result in a 90-99% dieoff of the incompetent, unprepared, lazy,unhealthy arrogant US population, is what it will do. No work, no preps=looting, killing, rape, arson, even cannabilism in short order (2-3 months, at most, after shtf).

 

[joverby]

It will look something like the Titanics death charts. 70% of the poor people died while 0% of the rich did. Pretty messed up but that's how these types of situations will pan out.

The rich people will have many supplies / bunkers / power generators / guards(whom they pay with saftey / food etc) / weapons etc...

Only the smartest of the poor will survive.

 

[Stud]

Name a company that sells cheaply made junk in China as a middle man.

 

[Gaucho]

Can anyone say nuclear war? That's what's next.

 

[Leporello]

The best-case scenario is a systematic restructuring of the US economy on more rational lines, where supply and demand are in some way connected, natural resources are not frittered away, urban planning is done in a serious way and all the useless, parasitic 'financial sector' jobs are flat outlawed.

 

[Gaucho]

The best-case scenario is a systematic restructuring of the US economy on more rational lines, where supply and demand are in some way connected, natural resources are not frittered away, urban planning is done in a serious way and all the useless, parasitic 'financial sector' jobs are flat outlawed.

LOL, a bit of a paradox in that post. You obviously don't understand economics.

If you want supply and demand to be 'in some way connected' then you need the 'parasitic financial sector jobs', or you will never be able to match the two. The financial sector has become rediculous, but it is still highly relevent at it's core. Things like futures markets were not just created for greed. Pure capitalism and a move to free markets is what caused the excessive use of leverage and waste of brains on the persuit of greed.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Can anyone say nuclear war? That's what's next.

Nobody will be able to afford the nukes.

Name a company that sells cheaply made junk in China as a middle man.

Sears, Target, Best Buy, Walmart, WalGreens, Canadian Tire, American Eagle, Aeropostale, H&M... and all the little convenience stores you see everywhere that get their product from a wholesale distributor who gets it from an export/import warehouse who gets it from China.

If you look at how a company is structured vertically you can see all the little middlemen and money sucking parasites in between.

 

[Upside]

Wait.

The economy was supposed to implode in 2007 and 2008.

Didn't happen.

The economy is supposed to implode in 2011 and 2012.

Isn't happening, won't happen.

You know what country holds our economic fate?

Italy.

Why?

So many of the richer countries hold Italian bonds right now and if they default without being bailed out, you will all then get the doomsday you so desire.

But, why won't they default?

EU just bailed out Greece. They'll do it for Italy too (eventually). Don't get me wrong, the EU does not want to, but it kind of doesn't have a choice. Germany is thinking of bailing on the EU just so it isn't responsible for Italy's debts.

You know what global trade does? It links economies from all over the world. It is literally the proverbial house of cards. If one nation gets in trouble, many others do as well. It's a double edged sword. Trade spurs growth, but when **** hits the fan...it really stinks because nations have to make up for the loss of international trade through domestic production and nation's won't be able to meet demand due to a lack of supply in raw materials. Living standards decrease, prices go up, wages decrease, labor force increases.

tl;dr

It's going to be okay. Live your life without worrying about what Walmart executives are doing. It doesn't matter. Chinese barbies have no effect on how you choose to live your life.

 

[metoo]

it's not going to be ok. This inflation and the SS medicare thing is unsustainable. 100 years ago, a $20 bill bought a 1 oz gold coin. Today, you need EIGHTY of those same $20 bills to buy that SAME 1oz of gold (no, I don't mean collector's item coins, just bullion gold coins) So your $ is worth 1/80th of what it was 100 years ago. That inflation rate is spiraling upward swiftly, due to all the corporate welfare, illegal immigration, overpopulation, etc, too. It's going to come crashing down soon, and there's really very little anyone can do to protect themselves. The diseases will strike rich and poor alike, for instance. Vaccines and other meds have a short shelf life, and pretty soon, all the gold in the world is not going to buy you any gasoline, because gas turns into varnish in a few years, even if you do put Staybil in it. Diesel will last longer, but most of it will be consumed shortly. If there's lots of fighting risk, nobody will be growing any peanuts or soybeans to waste as fuel in diesel generators, they will be eating all they can grow!

There ARE limits to how far you can inflate currency and "bail out' the profligate, and we are fast approaching those limits, people.

 

[Upside]

This inflation and the SS medicare thing

Oy.

That inflation rate is spiraling upward swiftly

Oy vey.

Germany: 1.1%

Spain: 1.3%

Italy: 1.4% (Inflation is the least of their problems. In fact, it shouldn't even be considered a problem.

United States: 1.4% (Super high right? With the way you like to describe our current economic situation I would think we were Zimbabwe)

France: 1.5%

Canada: 1.6%

Norway: 2.4%

Venezuela: 29.8%

Consider that the U.S. historical average is somewhere around 2%.

2% is considered very healthy.

Many of these inflation rates, that are supposedly going out of control, are healthy and in no way in danger of hyper-inflating. High deflation is actually worse than high inflation. Deflation can cause liquidity traps, and in essence cause a spiral downward where everything loses value.

tl;dr

It's going to be okay.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Oy.



Oy vey.

Germany: 1.1%

Spain: 1.3%

Italy: 1.4% (Inflation is the least of their problems. In fact, it shouldn't even be considered a problem.

United States: 1.4% (Super high right? With the way you like to describe our current economic situation I would think we were Zimbabwe)

France: 1.5%

Canada: 1.6%

Norway: 2.4%

Venezuela: 29.8%

Consider that the U.S. historical average is somewhere around 2%.

2% is considered very healthy.

Many of these inflation rates, that are supposedly going out of control, are healthy and in no way in danger of hyper-inflating. High deflation is actually worse than high inflation. Deflation can cause liquidity traps, and in essence cause a spiral downward where everything loses value.

tl;dr

It's going to be okay.

Quiz time: What is the inflation rate based on? What indicator? What underlying measurements make that final indicator? Are these measurements accurate?

 

[Gaucho]

Nobody will be able to afford the nukes.

Both the US and Russia combined can already decimate the planet 5 times over +.

The devestation, revolution, civil war, social unrest, global take-overs in persuit of resources, mass starvations etc etc will be something unseen in a far overpopulated and modernized technological world if the financial system (fiat currency) collapses. The death will be horrendous and it is probable most in this thread and even in this forum, will be wiped out. Nuclear weapons and modern economics/trade have been the sole reason for such global stability seen post WW2 (yes, even the situation in the middle east and the minor wars since have been relatively small in comparison to the wars in past history). With that peace time, has come an incredible period of technological advacement and overpopulation. Combine them all, with that system collapsing, and you have a global massacre.

 

[Falcon]

Oy.



Oy vey.

Germany: 1.1%

Spain: 1.3%

Italy: 1.4% (Inflation is the least of their problems. In fact, it shouldn't even be considered a problem.

United States: 1.4% (Super high right? With the way you like to describe our current economic situation I would think we were Zimbabwe)

France: 1.5%

Canada: 1.6%

Norway: 2.4%

Venezuela: 29.8%

Consider that the U.S. historical average is somewhere around 2%.

2% is considered very healthy.

Many of these inflation rates, that are supposedly going out of control, are healthy and in no way in danger of hyper-inflating. High deflation is actually worse than high inflation. Deflation can cause liquidity traps, and in essence cause a spiral downward where everything loses value.

tl;dr

It's going to be okay.

Where are you getting your numbers?? the CPI has been over 3% for a while now here in the US. You also left out a ton of countries on your list like India and China. High deflation is not worse than high inflation. They are both equally bad in certain situations. Hyperinflation (the upward spiral) has a better track record of wrecking countries/empires throughout history.

 

[metoo]

compared to the price of gold, we've had nearly 100% inflation in the past year, since the price of gold has nearly doubled. In fact, it DID double, all the way up to $1900 an oz, and then fell back to $1600 an oz. I'm very willing to bet that we'll never see $1500 an oz gold, ever again. average inflation in the US has been 5% per year, since I began watching it in 1970. Gas was 40c a gallon, gold was $135 an oz, a new Volksagon was $2000. Now gas is 8x that expensive, and so is the Volkswagon. Granted, the VW has a lot of goodies on it, but you still have to buy all those things to get a vw to drive, eh? if inflation is but 2% per year, it will take over 35 years to double prices. but prices have doubled 3x. in those 40 years. So your figures are bs.

 

[ArcBound]

OK someone with economic knowledge, what does it mean that the Fed Reserve is "helping" Europe out by lending* at low rates?

If I'm correct the world was going doomsday over the Greek and Italy Euro crises, so how can this one move save them? Is this just a measure to prolong the inevitable implosion or will it actually change anything?