Eye contact inconsistencies

[k_hectic]

Originally posted by BobbDobbs
Your ratios don't ring true.

Both the male and female first attractor is looks. It is more important to the male, but it is still primarily important to the female.

I might agree about this one, but again, what we, males, perceive as looks is different from what they perceive as looks. Looks to us is the physical features. Looks to women are outwerd reflections of personality. Is his hair done right?! Then he's up to date with fasion. Is his beard shaved? Then he's an organized person. Is his posture straight!? Then he's confident.

Whereas the next thing the woman wants down the list is status in the man. Intelligence would be third for her.

Again, status is a direct reflection of personality. Without personality, a guy wouldn't gain status. Of course, there is the status of royality which is obtained at birth, but believe me, women go for such guys for their money and not attraction.

Status is a big factor with women, but really, though Bill Gates could have his pick of HB golddiggers -- there are plenty of women who just don't consider him attractive enough to interest them. They'd turn down billions of dollars just because he doesn't appeal visually to them.

Bill gates does not have the personality to turn them on. That has nothing to do with his looks. You think if he was good looking with his same dull personality, he would have gotten women!? Personally, I don't think he's bad looking. He just doesn't have it! (attractive personality)

p.s. By the way guys, I'm trying to open your eyes to something. I'm not trying to put your argument down or win a discussion here. I know that some good looking guys would want to believe that having good looks wins more than half the battle, but believe me it does not.

Any DJs wanna chime in on the subject here?!

 

[becker]

I'd have to believe that Bill Gates, if he was better looking, would actually gain more women than he would right now with the way he looks and his personality.

It's all a balancing test. What you don't have in one area, you're going to have to make up in the other. A guy who isn't that good looking is going to have to be extremely charismatic in order to win over some girls. There's always the golddigger too, who might want Gates for all his money and is willing to do whatever it takes to get it. Look at Anna Nicole Smith and J. Howard Marshall. I don't care what anyone says, but money was the basis of that relationship. That guy was one step short of being a corpse.

I also believe that a nerdy geek, if he's an ugly bastard, is not going to usually even have enough experience being confident to be charismatic enough to make up for his physical appearance. You can't just pick up charisma one day at the supermarket. It's a long process and confidence comes over time, if you have enough exposure to positive feedback. These geeks have usually been harassed their whole lives and their self-esteem is for crap.

On the flip side, a very good looking guy who is an idiot is not in that much of a better position, but the only difference is that unlike the geek, his foot is in the door. He's one step further than the geek. The geek will likely be outside the door knocking and getting no answer, and this is the way it happens for every encounter. I know many women on both sides of the fence on this one. Some are with good looking dudes who are not exactly the most intellectual blokes, and then there are ones that are with what I'd deem lesser looking guys who are more charismatic. It all depends on the flavor preference, and it's difficult to make too many blanket statements on this.

In general, however, I know one thing that tends to be true, and that is, on cold approaches, the good looking guy has a slight edge compared to an ugly guy or a geek. It's what they do with it afterwards that tells the rest of the story.

 

[becker]

k_hectic,

Would you rate yourself as a pretty good looking guy, and if not, what has been your experience with women?

I've been deemed pretty good looking by women I know, so I can tell you that most of the time it's been looks that have gotten me the attention, then I have just used C&F most of the time to keep them interested. If you're pretty good looking, believe me, you'll know that some women will approach you without you even saying a word. You could be sitting there, and they'll come near you, and all you have to do is look at her if you're interested, and say hi, then it snowballs from there. I have played sports competitively all my life, which has really helped me confidence-wise, so I don't walk around with crummy posture or anything. However, the key is that not every girl I've met has known this before they got to know me better first.

I don't know what it's really like for a less-than-average looking guy who has never really been that successful with women but has had a pretty good personality. I can't imagine they'll get much approaches from women or even much of a glance. I have some friends who are actually not bad personality wise, but not exactly Calvin Klein models either, and they struggle to stay out of the LJBF zone all the time. The women will talk with them, but it will end up being about me or something, in private, which they will tell me about later.

I think that's why I don't believe that it's personality over looks. Nobody is attracted to a tree stump, even ugly people. Personality is like the common denominator that you MUST have, but it won't make up for looks in my experience. To me, it's all about getting your foot in the door, and it's not going to be easy unless you are physically attractive.

 

[k_hectic]

Well, ego aside, I've been told by several women I'm extremely good looking, so I do consider myself pretty good looking.

However, in the WBAFC days, sometimes girls would initiate a conversation with me because they're attracted to the way I look, but then as soon as I open my mouth, they're gone. And later, I see them hanging out with some ugly arse confident muzafuka. That verifies that they don't place much importance on looks.

 

[BobbDobbs]

Originally posted by k_hectic
status is a direct reflection of personality.

I'm going to agree that behavior effects the perceptions of status. And therefore this is something that the student can work on to improve his rating in the eyes of women.

I'm not going to object to calling such behavior "personality", I'll just note that the dividing line between them is subjective. Driving a car is a behavior -- but it doesn't really tell us much about someone's personality. So we wouldn't say all behaviors are "personality." But I don't really want to debate the cutover line.

Anyhow, from our own relative standpoint -- improvements in behavior improve our standing in the game. So that is our justification. We try to raise our apparent status, since most women value that more so then other personality traits.

We should most definately try to improve our physical appearence, however, as this is numero uno. Get a decent hair style, attractive glasses or contacts (or lasik), look clean, wear stylish clothes, lose weight, etc.

We need the confidence stuff just to get in the game. You can't score if you don't play.

 

[StockTrader]

Looks are the most overrated thing in the AFC universe. If looks were all that mattered, clearly, Kid Rock would be one lonely guy. Then how does he end up with Pam Anderson? Balls, confidence, not afraid to be a man. All the things talked about on here. Well what do you know, he lands a hottie. I've seen real life Kid Rocks (just nasty looking) being with total hotties.

Even if you look like a nerd, you don't have to act like one. Nerds are presummed to have:

low self esteem, no confidence, no balls, no C&F, no kino, no life away from the computer, needy with women, etc. That guy from MTV Made, the nerd they were trying to make over was a WBAFC nerd poster boy for nerds all around the world. After landing a date with this cute girl, he starts to get upset because she is late. He calls her, and then........are you ready.......begs her to come on the date! Then, he says....."but.......I'm really nice!!!". That is the kiss of death my friends. That one sentence spoke volumes about how the typical nerdy guy views dating. Come on a date with me they say. Why? Because I'm a great guy. I'm nice. Even though I'm scared of my sexuality, come on a date with me anyways. That sentence was earth shattering. All WBAFC behavior could be summed up in that single sentence.

After watching that MTV Made episode, it all started to make sense. Literally an ephipany. My god, why didn't I figure this out earlier. Girls want guys. There's already one ***** on the date, they don't need a second one. Be bold. Be C&F. Be the leader on the date. You'll never make her wet by acting like a nerd.

 

[becker]

Funny what a turn this thread took. I thought this was about eye contact. Suddenly we're talking about looks not mattering.

Anyways, so back to eye contact, what about more stories. Do women tend to give eye contact all the time to everyone, or just to people who they are attracted to?

I've seen women give almost no attention, much less eye contact, to some guys who they didn't find attractive at all, maybe because they were total trolls or that they were just physically repulsive. I'd say that might be an argument in support of eye contact being a measure of IL or attraction.

 

[becker]

Hey, so this HOT girl at work (I'm talking totally off the charts here, even hotter than the girl that I was going after before, which is VERY difficult to pull off) and I finally bumped into each other today. She is amazing, and she looked me straight in the eyes and would NOT break eye contact, to the point where it became a little like we were just staring at each other. I HAD to break it first, wich sucks, but if I didn't, we would have been looking straight into each other's eyes and saying nothing.

Anyways, this one guy who works in the same office space as her was hanging around her all day, and I'm wondering if they're seeing each other. It seemed like it, but I couldn't tell for sure. He seems a little on the stand-offish side, and I can sense that he sees me as a bit of a threat. This one time I walked by when he and this girl were sitting outside together, and she stared at me the entire time, and I looked straight at her, and smiled, and said hi to her, giving her a total stare-down in front of him.

A few times today, I saw her, and had to break eye contact with her, but only after holding it for so long that it was ridiculous. I'm hoping that she and that guy are brother and sister or something. He seems quite AFC so that makes it easier for me. I'm serious, she has some INTENSE eye contact, and I think she has some interest. What should I do next time I see her, probably tomorrow?

 

[tristan22]

I'm sorry fellas, but i totally disagree with the great looking guys get all the girls cliche. Go to any college campus or mall and look how many tools are banging the primo girls.

My analogy of why this takes place.

Girls are egomaniacs and want all of the attention. By dating a guy that isn't as physically attract as she is, ensures that she will get all of the attention, therefore giving her the upper hand in the relationship.

ANy thoughts?

 

[Cheiradawg]

Originally posted by tristan22
I'm sorry fellas, but i totally disagree with the great looking guys get all the girls cliche. Go to any college campus or mall and look how many tools are banging the primo girls.

My analogy of why this takes place.

Girls are egomaniacs and want all of the attention. By dating a guy that isn't as physically attract as she is, ensures that she will get all of the attention, therefore giving her the upper hand in the relationship.

ANy thoughts?

You are a dumbass.
You have the concept of the principles but you are not applying them correctly. This is wrong, but I can't put in words why it is wrong because I don't understand it all yet. However it still is wrong.

 

[ManOMan]

I notice some women avoid eye contact all together.

Sometimes when I try to improve my EC and Hello's, I will spot a girl from far away as we are approaching and passing one another.

Without making it too obvious, I try to check to see if she has even LOOKED my way once to "size me up" so to speak

yet I realize even as we pass by, she still hasnt even looked my way. WTF?

then whenever I go jogging, I usually get the eye contact, with the girl immediately looking down or straight ahead after we make EC.

 

[tristan22]

OK boss i'm a dumbass, what an intelligent way of getting your point across. Maybe in your city you have different scenarios then the ones i see on a daily basis in Ohio. Let me tell you, 90% of the time i see hot chicks with mediocre guys! My point is, you don't have to look like Fabio to get hot chicks! From my experience girls usually date guys who don't measure up to them physically, however the guy usually does have some sort of social proof (frat guy, jock, rich, etc).

Tristan

 

[Cheiradawg]

Originally posted by tristan22
Girls are egomaniacs and want all of the attention. By dating a guy that isn't as physically attract as she is, ensures that she will get all of the attention, therefore giving her the upper hand in the relationship.
Tristan

I agree that a guy does not have to look like Fabio to pull a hot chick.

The problem is with this anaology, it is streaching some things. Why does dating a guy that is less attractive than her ensure that she will get all of the attention. If she get attention why does this lead to her having the upperhand in the relationship.

I agree that this situtation could occur, but I think it is less wide spread than you think.

 

[becker]

ManOMan,

The theory is that if the woman looks down after looking at you, she is interested, but if she looks to the side then she isn't. I know that's sort of a little bit on the overly-objective side of analyzing this stuff, but I wonder if there is any truth to this.

I've had amazingly hot women look down after looking at me, but most recently, I've seen women just sort of look straight ahead, not even glancing in my direction. The way I characterize this is that you're only as good as the hottest girl that looks at you with interest. There are some very insecure ugly girls who have trouble even looking ANY human in the eye much less a guy they find physically attractive. I have seen some seriously ugly girls who have not looked at me, and then some hot as hell girls look me straight in the eye without breaking eye contact. It depends on the girl doing the looking, that's my theory. If she is insecure, she may not look at you at all, which says more about herself rather than you.

I talked a little today to this guy that I spoke about in the last post who seemed to be after this girl. I showed him a magic trick that David Blaine did, and he was blown away. He told me I have to teach him so he can impress the women. I'm figuring he's not with this hot girl, because if he was, he wouldn't give a CRAP about impressing any women, because this girl is absolute cream of the crop. She might not have a BF by the looks of it. I don't think she came to work today, because I didn't see her. I'll ask her out to lunch tomorrow if I see her. I just want to at least get to know her better, and that's the only way to do it.

 

[sux2bu]

Originally posted by ManOMan
yet I realize even as we pass by, she still hasnt even looked my way. WTF?

Wow. That is the million dollar question. -- It could mean a number of things.

1. She's shy and introverted.
2. She has a b/f.
3. She has a scorching case of herpes.
4. She's a lesbian.
5. She's having a bad day.., etc.


Take this into consideration also, woman can scan you faster than we can scan them. They can look a guy up-and-down inconspicuously, with such precision, that the opinion is already formed in the girls head based on just the external appearance alone. I catch a lot of girls looking out of the corners of their eyes, which I would suspect is always a good sign, unless you look like a serial killer.