Extremely limited protein sources

[Warboss Alex]

For bulking I need 210 grams of protein a day.

If you're 100lbs.

 

[The_Lifter]

If you're 100lbs.

Wrong again.

For naturals:
1g/lb while bulking
1.5g/lb while cutting.

End of discussion.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Wrong again.

For naturals:
1g/lb while bulking
1.5g/lb while cutting.

End of discussion.

Whatever works for you, my friend. If those numbers do, more power to you.

*returns to his steak*

 

[manuva]

Wrong again.

For naturals:
1g/lb while bulking
1.5g/lb while cutting.

End of discussion.

I love it when people say something like 'end of discussion' when referring to the human body. The confidence belies the ignorance.

When dealing with the human body, the very first thing you have to remember is that everybody's body is different and will respond differently. Certainly there are guidelines when it comes to health and fitness, but anyone who believes there are hard and fast rules is demonstrating their limited experience.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Ah, mate, leave him alone, he's 21, he knows everything, he's got three or four decades of training experience behind him, he's tried every sort of protein/carb/fat ratio and diet plan there is.. I can't argue with that.

Everyone is different yes, but I don't think anyone would not benefit from eating 2g of protein per lb, especially in pursuit of lean mass. Even if it's not all used, it's still (very thermogenic) calories.. I fail to see how you lose here.

Bottom line: try it. If you are not satisfied with your current strength and muscle gains, bump the protein to 2g per lb (I'm on 2.5 and loving it, and finding it's much easier to drop fat at the same time as getting bigger - thermogenesis is a wonderful thing, see above) and see what happens. you've got nothing to lose!

 

[Warboss Alex]

From Wesley/Iron Addict: (quote copied without permission, if there's a problem please someone let me know )

I know and work with a lot of talented BB’ers and PL’ers and every SUCCESSFUL one will tell you the body needs EXTREME protein intake levels if you are to ever do well lifting and adding mass. Of course there are plenty of buck-sixty pound guys out there that will quote studies telling you that it is not needed.

I am constantly bombarded with posts from under 200 lb guys saying things like “I heard that the body can only assimilate 30-35 grams at a time” or the super MORONIC statement that is even more frequently heard “I don’t want to “waste” protein”. Oh really? It’s OK to drive to the gym, workout 2-6 days a week, spend countless hours lifting and prepping meals and spending God knows how much a month on mostly USELESS supplements (there are great ones, most guys buy the flashy crap ones though because of the marketing hype), and then after all that time, money and effort, they “are worried about “wasting” a bit of protein? Please, get real.

You need to understand that before a single gram of protein will be used for growth, first overall metabolic needs must be attended to. Then you need to take in to account all the micro-trauma that heavy training creates. Your body must use the ingested protein to first just synthesize protein just to heal what was damaged and get you back to square one before any additional mass will be accrued.

Now comes the big kicker that almost everyone here reading this is CLUELESS about—how little actual protein content is in the food you eat. When many see a recommendation that a 200 lb guy trying to add mass should get 375-400 grams of protein a day many flip-out. That is nuts! No one could use or possibly have a need for that much protein---WRONG! Just because 8 ounces of steak with fat has about 60 grams of protein, the average guy assumes that 400 grams of actual protein is a HUGE amount. IT IS NOT! 8 ounces of steak is mostly water and other constituents that do NOT count as the protein count.

But instead of taking my word for it, you do the math and find out how much ACTUAL PROTEIN is in an amount you would consider HUGE, and then think about what your overall bodyweight is and how tore-up a hard workout makes you feel.

http://www.sciencelab.com/data/conversions/weight.shtml

Did you do the math? What do you think now?

Iron Addict

 

[Warboss Alex]

for the record, up until about 200lbs I did fine on lower protein intake.. after that, I NEEDED 2g to make strength gains. Now I'm just kicking myself for not eating 2.5 sooner.

Also, remember a lot of stuff is relative to what the government/public view as normal. I eat around a dozen whole eggs everyday - many of you will shout "that's too much!" but I want to know why? Just because some bigwig somewhere said something stupid like 'no more than four egg yolks per week'?

It's the same with protein. Try to think outside the box, fellas. Be open-minded. Just remember that muscles are made out of, repaired by and made bigger by the p word. carbs and fats are fuel sources, protein is the raw material. they are NOT interchangeable (protein can be used for fuel but we don't want that).

 

[The_Lifter]

I love it when people say something like 'end of discussion' when referring to the human body. The confidence belies the ignorance.

When dealing with the human body, the very first thing you have to remember is that everybody's body is different and will respond differently. Certainly there are guidelines when it comes to health and fitness, but anyone who believes there are hard and fast rules is demonstrating their limited experience.

Oh yes! But isn't a similar ignorance is conveyed by asinine assumptions like 'limited experience?' Thanks for that, truly made my day!

Appreciated, bodies are different but science has established guidelines time and again that are more precise than you seem to be suggesting. Human physiology doesn't differ *that* much from person to person. I don't know if you've ever heard of pubmed or medline, but seriously, go and read some studies before you run mouth.

Warboss, I think it’s nice that you have an opinion and by all means keep the sarcasm! It's a shame that this is your only avenue of retort and I'm sorry that you lack the intelligence to enter into a proper debate.

BTW, to the above. Eating that much protein isn't a problem, it's the synthesis of the protein in natural individuals. Steroids, fine, you can slam down that much protein and have it made into new muscle because of increased protein synthesis. Unless you're doing that, simply, you're pissing money up the wall.

 

[Warboss Alex]

The_Lifter:

You're the one who gave an 'absolute' answer. You did say 'End of discussion' after all. You'll notice my reply to that was perfectly reasonable.

I'm more than willing to discuss it in a civil manner. I also agree that people using steroids need even more protein but there's nothing to stop natural trainers benefitting from 2g per lb or more. I also agree that high protein is more expensive than high carb but I believe in investing in yourself. Of course if you're strapped for cash then protein powder is fairly affordable imo.

May I ask if you've tried such a high protein intake before? Or if you've asked any pro bodybuilder/powerlifter how much protein they intake? I have, and it's always at least 1.5g (mostly 2). And a great many of them were drug-free.

What makes me sarcastic is that you don't seem to be open-minded in that you've never told us about your experience with higher protein intakes.

Okay, here's my opening to what I hope will be a friendly and civil discussion:

I see where you're coming from in the more protein for cutting BUT .. tell me this. If you believe you need that much protein just to keep muscle - that's keep, not add to - then why do you recommend so little for bulking? It takes more protein to build muscle than it does to maintain it.

As in the above article, when attempting to gain muscle, you need baseline protein to maintain what muscle you have, then more protein to heal the muscle once it's broken down through exercise and then even more to build new tissue. 1g per lb does not make sense to me if you feel 1.5g is necessary for cutting.

If you're speaking from a calorific point of view (i.e. fuel from sources other than carbs) then why not use higher protein for bulking as well, since it's all calories? I'm not speaking from a cost point of view, purely physiological.

I agree there's also a thermogenic/metabolic effect from higher protein which is beneficial when trying to lose bodyfat, but why not use that when bulking as well to keep the fat off in the first place or even lean out while gaining?

Let's bury the hatchet. I'm a reasonable man and just enjoy lifting weights, I'm not a trainer (intending to get the diploma sometime though) or here to uphold or destroy anyone's reputation or credibility (except those who do dumbbell kickbacks of course). No hard feelings.

 

[manuva]

Thanks for that, truly made my day!

No worries. I am a nice guy after all.

Human physiology doesn't differ *that* much from person to person.

I'm not suggesting that it does differ that much, I'm simply saying you cannot possibly take a topic with so many variables such as nutritional protein requirements and make an "end of story" point.

I don't know if you've ever heard of pubmed or medline, but seriously, go and read some studies before you run mouth.

First of all, I don't see where I've run mouth anywhere. If my reasonable discussion points are too much for you to take then you really shouldn't be participating in discussion.

Secondly, I have read studies. A seemingly infinite supply of them passes through my hands every month. I've done my research, I've done my degree, and I stay as current as possible with all aspects of physciological research given the sheer quantity of content out there. My practical experience is also considerable - moreso, I'm willing to bet, than your own.

You claim asinine assumptions demonstrate ignorance, and then go and make such an assumption yourself by suggesting my point of view is not that of a well-informed individual.

To reiterate, you simply cannot state an exact figure for protein intake that actually does 'end discussion'.

 

[Warboss Alex]

bump for The_Lifter who seems to have missed or ignored my post

 

[manuva]

bump for The_Lifter who seems to have missed or ignored my post

And mine

 

[grr]

#1. I'd rather strain my kidneys and liver than my pancreas anyday.
#2. The strain from overeating protein is offset by the fact most people who eat a lot of protein don't eat crap, too.
#3. Kidneys being strained can be helped by plenty of water and Vitamin B16.
#4. If you eat too much protein, you normally don't get fat. But, if you eat foods that are mostly carbs, you normally will. So, for people who have a tendency to satisfy their oral fixations (i.e. mammals), eating excess protein is the lesser of a few evils and probably not evil at all.

 

[Wiesman44]

When your down at the gym, grab a protein shake and a protein bar - thats around 80g of protein right there!

Sarge On...

NEVER take 80 grams of protein in one sitting. Always break it up into meals. Try not to take more than 60 grams of protein in one sitting. Even that is pushing it. And don't take too much protein powder. Too much protein powder is not good for you. Dont' know the reasons behind it, but my buddy who is a nutritional science major told me this

 

[Warboss Alex]

Dont' know the reasons behind it, but my buddy who is a nutritional science major told me this

You don't know the reasons for it, yet listen to them blindly. Don't people quesiton anything anymore? "I won't do this because a friend of a friend of such and such heard two guys in a pub saying that.."

Remember that most 'scientific research' uses ordinary people as its test subjects, NOT power and strength athletes who work out hard and whose needs for protein are far higher than the 135lb office worker whose only movement throughout the day is to go to the coffee machine.

I heard someone say the other day that the world was square, AND he had a study to back it up.

 

[mrRuckus]

http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/bodybuildingfaq/f/kidneydamage.htm

"Fact is that there are no studies that have ever shown a high protein diet causing kidney damage in persons with normal kidney function. Only people who already have a pre-existing kidney condition need to be concerned with keeping their protein in check."