Expressing Interest

[zekko]

I'm always reading material on here about being indifferent to women, ignoring them, putting your attention elsewhere which drives them crazy, or whatever. Really, almost every tip on this forum is about acting like you don't care about the girl in some way, which supposedly makes her want you all the more.

I know a lot of this is because so many guys come here after acting AFC and supplicating and pedestalizing a girl. But if all you had to do was not interact with a girl to catch her interest, every shy guy on the planet would have girls lined up around the block knocking on his door.

This is how I think attraction works: At some point, to get a girl's attention, you have to express some interest in her. That gets her thinking: "Hey, maybe this guy likes me", and her imagination is engaged. But you don't want to make it too obvious or too often, because there should be some doubt in her mind about it. That's where things like indifference comes in.

I tend to be naturally indifferent and aloof, but this doesn't get me women, not directly. I have to express some interest in some way. Often a girl will be surprised, "I didn't think you were interested in me because...." and name some way in which I was aloof or indifferent. The indifference bit may have upped my attraction level however, because they had often written me off as being unobtainable in some way.

My current girlfriend, for instance, fell for me because I knew someone in her family, and I went out of my way to be nice to her out of respect for that person. She, however, misinterpreted the attention that I paid to her as romantic interest. But it didn't really occur to me to be actually be interested because we were both seeing other people at the time - so there was always that room for doubt.

I know some guys here are extra good looking or ultra charismatic or whatever, and that all they have to do is not pursue a girl and she will chase him. I don't think that "doing nothing" works that well for most of us, however. At some point we may have to plant a seed. Sometimes that seed may be as simple as asking for her number or inviting her out, but ideally that should come later (unless you're cold approaching, of course, in which case you don't have much choice).

 

[Lexington]

You are implicitly showing interest by approaching a girl, asking her out etc. Even if a girl approached you or you met through mutual friends, you are demonstrating interest by leading the courtship in some way or the other. Being shy doesn't work because it's unlikely that you'll meet many women that way and you won't get anywhere with the few that you do build rapport with.

Showing disinterest works because most women want to believe that they have secured a catch. A guy who isn't fawning all over her probably has options. Obviously you don't want to show so much disinterest that the girl thinks she doesn't have a chance with you, but you do need to demonstrate to her that you are desirable. At the most basic level, women aren't attracted to who you are, but what you are.

 

[Mike32ct]

You are implicitly showing interest by approaching a girl, asking her out etc. Even if a girl approached you or you met through mutual friends, you are demonstrating interest by leading the courtship in some way or the other.

^This. Actually I agree with the whole post, but I wanted to emphasize the above.

Showing interest doesn't have be compliments. Kino, asking her out, flirty grins, etc. can also convey interest. Especially asking her out.

I'm also with Samspade. Just ignoring women alone doesn't work generally.

I'm VERY aloof in person. It's defintely not an asset game-wise BY ITSELF.

If being aloof (by itself) worked, every loner guy would be swimming in poon.

So the OP is correct. You do generally have to show interest at some point. How you do it is a matter of what style of game you use.

 

[SteR]

I've pondered over this myself. I think whenever it comes to my interactions with girls I always show interest covertly - I guess it's just my character? When I actually think about it, most of the time it's done through teasing/kino. I don't think I've ever directly told a girl I'm interested in her.. it seems like that would ruin the game if that makes sense? I think you're onto something about creating doubt in their mind, Zekko.

I'm actually interested to hear about guys who've been so blatant with their interest ie. walking up to girls and telling them directly that they're interested and want to F them. I've heard of it working for guys before although I've never seen it myself - does this actually happen? For me it's always been a subtle game. Pretty much all my body language indicates my interest - I've never had to say the words overtly.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

There's about a billion reasons any one girl will feel attracted to any one guy.

There's no magic formula that works for all guys on all girls. That's a marketing myth.

Some girls are ultra passive, never get hit on and need to be pursued aggressively.

Some girls have been hit on so much (maybe since before being a teenager) that they assume ALL MALE INTEREST is a sexual come-on.

Some girls have high self confidence, have been hit on enough to play the game well, and get all the attention they need by NEVER pursuing any guy.

Bottom line? Mack any way you feel comfortable, hit on as many girls as you can, and you'll end up with whomever you end up with.

Like any skill, the more you practice, the better you'll get, and the better your results will be.

Pretty soon it will feel like riding a bike, and any "rules" you read on the Internet will seem as foolish as "keep your weight balanced, and when riding up hill, lean forward slightly, and make sure to learn into the turns especially when going downhill..."

Picking up girls is pretty natural. Men have been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years.

 

[Lexington]

I'm actually interested to hear about guys who've been so blatant with their interest ie. walking up to girls and telling them directly that they're interested and want to F them. I've heard of it working for guys before although I've never seen it myself - does this actually happen? For me it's always been a subtle game. Pretty much all my body language indicates my interest - I've never had to say the words overtly.

I've seen this happen a few times and I've done it myself a couple of times (both times involved alcohol). Basically you have to completely own the frame and show absolutely no shakiness. The moment you show some nervousness/doubt, it's going to fail. It's very difficult to fake this kind of confidence.

A couple weekends ago I was at a club and I was dancing with this girl but she was being wishy washy. It was almost closing time so I said fvck it, reeled her in and then I told her I wanted to see her pvssy. She complied. At that moment, I honestly didn't give a fvck. I had nothing to lose, so I threw up a Hail Mary.

I know a guy who does stuff like this on a regular basis. But he is very much a "natural Alpha." He is very boisterous and quite an intimidating presence physically (23 years old, about 6'4, 230 and well-muscled). Women and men tend to comply with what he says. He does it in a dominant but friendly fashion. It's tough to replicate that kind of game if you're not usually the AMOG in most situations.

 

[backbreaker]

I think your game has to be tailored towards who you are as a package.

My game is based on the premise that I know i'm very good looking. I don't' say that to sound arrogant but i mean, i'm good looking. So with that stated, i don't have to do anything to grab your attention my looks alone will peak your interest.

in other words my game is based on the premise that your interest is already peaked. that's why for me the "aloof" method works as well as it does, i don't so much as run game as much as I don't fvck up what my looks have already given me lol.

my game is based not he premise that i KNOW you are checking me out even if i don't see you. i just do my own thing. you are watching. now it's not even game i'm married it's just how i am and it still works.

Throw in a few jokes here and there and pull back again, go do my thing, be pleasant but stand offish and they will eventually bite if they were going to bite in the first place. A girl today in the meetings i go to who has been around for 3-4 months and i haven't said jack siht to lol all of a sudden today yells as soon as i walk in the door "there's an open seat here" and pulls out a chair.


i was with a dude a few days ago in the grocery store and we were talking about game and everything sleeps on me beucase i'm married and they think i don't have any game or what not and i was like bro watch this **** lol so we walked down the isle and i saw this chick, not bad, and i just lock eyes with her and i keep walking then i look her up and down and she looks at me and she starts smiling and i lock eyes with her again and she looks at me and i walk off lol. teased the **** out of her. i turn around and she's still starring at me and my friend was like dude that girl wanted the **** backbreaker. didn't say one word to her. didn't have to. i KNOW she thinks i'm handsome. i couldn't do that if i thought she might or might not find me attractive.

but if you aren't good looking or don't think you are your game probbaly has to be a tad different. what works for me won't work for you and what works for you probably won;t' work for me. if i went around and talked a lot and flashed money and **** people would asy i was a show off beucase i actually have some money. i can't do that. that would be a turn off.

 

[tryst type]

The best way to approach/talk to a girl without showing too much or very little interest to get her wondering if you like her or just being friendly is to simply not care about the outcome 100%

When a woman senses this she's confused, she wants you to care what she thinks of you and when you don't, just being friendly funny and know you're a catch it drives them crazy. Suddenly they're acting like a beta male wanting more of you.

Try this, approach with the intent of just giving her a good time, letting her know of your existence but the entire time retain a "I could care less what you think of me" demeanor and see what happens.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Zekko, I generally agree with what you're saying. I note, though, that some men tend to take talk about "training wheels" on the site very literally. Many times when a platitude is expressed, there is an implicit understanding that this is a very general guideline, a working structure that needs to be modified according to one's personality.

It's a matter of taking these platitudes and weaving them into your personality in a way that works for you. For me, my version of showing little interest is being friendly but blasé about the interaction. Her body language will show her interest or lack thereof and I can then ramp it up from there. The whole idea is to get her more invested than I am.

Then it's push/pull for a while. I have definitely found that women love to wonder "if he likes me or not".

 

[zekko]

Zekko, I generally agree with what you're saying. I note, though, that some men tend to take talk about "training wheels" on the site very literally.

Well, the only reason I brought it up is because, like I said, there is so much emphasis here on the disconnect. In fact, I think this is probably one of the worst sites as far as focusing almost entirely on the "push" part of push/pull. I almost get the impression that guys here think that if you express any kind of interest, bang you're dead in the water. Other sites do a lot better job of presenting a more balanced view, they'll include the "bubble of love" or whatever. Here, it seems like all the focus is on acting too cool for her.

I think there is an assumption here that when newbies come here, their problem is that they have gone all AFC and overpursue. Maybe that's the case for most guys, but that was never the message I needed to hear. My main problem with women has always been that I am too aloof, too indifferent. I should always be creating more warmth, not less. BB's mention of his "eye the girl up and down" move is a good example. I actually did that to a girl yesterday, and it immediately put a smile on her face.

A lot of the attitude here is like "Man, there's no reason to even talk to a b!tch, they don't have anything interesting to say, all they do is talk about shoes. Turn your back on her and walk away, that'll make her hamster spin. Then she'll be chasing you down begging you to bed her".

 

[Atom Smasher]

Yes, but your self-description of always being too aloof and too indifferent makes you the polar opposite of the norm. It probably colors your perception of the principles talked about here. I don't say this in a bad way, it's just an observation that your internal paradigm about aloofness and indifference is opposite of most men's to the extreme, as most men struggle greatly with being over-nice, accommodating and respectful, things that (unbelievably to most men) tend to turn women off when done to the degree that we naturally want to do them.

Therefore I see that when these platitudes and "absolutes" are spoken of, there is an understanding that they are going to be applied in balance once the nuance of application is understood. For example, "being the bad boy" is not really about being an actual mean, disrespectful person, but rather an observance of what characteristics a "bad boy" naturally displays, and our taking these characteristics and using them while discarding the bad.

I also liken this phenomenon to wood carving. When I say I am going to carve a beautiful carousel horse for my living room, that I am going to saw wood, cut into it with sharp steel tools, one might picture my using those tools to obliterate the wood, scar it up and end up with a pile of chips and sawdust, all because I am using tools that are hundreds of thousands of times harder than the wood.

But in fact, the understanding is that I'm going to take those hard, sharp and dangerous tools and use them with purpose and artistry to shape the wood into the vision I have for it.

In the same way, I see men understanding that these tools here at SS are training wheels, techniques to be used while a man learns to nuance them to his advantage. The advantage is not total domination over women (although some here might think that), but rather to achieve balance and an understanding how the female mind works and to be able to work with it and influence it.

The men who come here are generally extremely out of balance due to their feminized education, the media onslaught against them, and many of them not having a positive, masculine dad as a role model. Strong measures are required to break these cinderblocks in their foundations, and a temporary shoring up of the foundation must be temporarily put in place while the foundation is being restored.

In the foundation, jackhammers, mallets, and other demolition tools must be used; destructive tools which will become unnecessary once the foundation is corrected and the edifice is now standing solidly and securely.

All that to say I think that men naturally understand that these tools and techniques are designed to be used in crafting one's persona and will be discarded as platitudes once they are internalized in proper balance.

 

[zekko]

Yes, but your self-description of always being too aloof and too indifferent makes you the polar opposite of the norm. It probably colors your perception of the principles talked about here.

I'm sure it does, but while I admit I may be in the minority here, I can't imagine that I am really all that rare, when it comes to my problem of being too aloof. To me, it seems like a natural offshoot of growing up with a problem of being too shy. While I have long ago conquered my shyness (I do public speaking on an almost daily basis now), I am very comfortable with having a certain amount of distance between myself and others. And even though I live with my girlfriend, I like my solitude.

While I do think this site is a little too unbalanced toward the "push" side of push/pull, that wasn't my main reason for posting. It was my statement of how attraction works. For those of us who aren't going to automatically nail a girl just by showing our face in the door, I think we have to get a girl's attention somehow. And I think we get her attention by planting the seed somewhere "Hey, maybe this guy likes me", while retaining the doubt in her mind. Most of us need both the push and the pull, not just the push.

There's about a billion reasons any one girl will feel attracted to any one guy.

There's no magic formula that works for all guys on all girls. That's a marketing myth.

I have to mention that I agree with this. Even AFC game can work on a girl, depending on who you are, who she is, what the situation is, and what chemicals are in the air on any given day.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Right. I've always maintained that it is literally impossible for a man to make himself universally attractive, while it is possible for 99% of women to do so.

It seems that feminine affectations and traits are universally perceived, even cross/culturally. I've seen the majority of African tribesman choosing the printed outline of a typical western-style figure of a woman over all other body outlines.

For men, it's a mixed bag of personality and values, with looks being secondary and only sometimes serving as a foot in the door.

 

[zekko]

Here's a question that popped into my head today: Let's say that you look at a girl who you find attractive. As a natural reaction, your pupils dialate. On a conscious or subconscious level, the girl notices this. Is she excited or repulsed?

Generally speaking, women almost exclusively, can be turned off by excessive interest in her by a guy. Most guys are flattered and pleased when a woman is interested in them. But I've heard several women say they hate it when a guy gets "googly-eyed".

My guess is that if it's the right guy she will love it, but if it's the wrong guy she'll hate it. But real men are supposed to be above having silly emotional responses over a mere girl, or at least that's how women see it.