Excellent article on narcissm and ego

zinc4

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There have been some recent posts about ego and and narcistic personalities...not naming any names...but here is an excellent article on why a narcistic/sociopathic mentality is so mentally and spiritually unhealthy and not a strength, but actually a disguised weakness. I copied and pasted this from its original website:


The narcissist's True Self is introverted and dysfunctional. In healthy people, Ego functions are generated from the inside, from the Ego. In narcissists, the Ego is dormant, comatose. The narcissist needs the input of the outside world to perform the most basic Ego functions (e.g., "recognition" of the world, setting boundaries, differentiation, self-esteem and regulation of a sense of self-worth). Only the False Self gets in touch with the world. The True Self is isolated, repressed, unconscious, a shadow of its former self.

Forcing the narcissist's False Self to acknowledge and interact with his True Self is not only difficult but may also be counterproductive and dangerously destabilising. The narcissist's disorder is adaptive and functional, though rigid. The alternative to this (mal)adaptation would have been self-destructive (suicidal). This bottled up, self-directed venom is bound to resurface if the narcissist's various personality structures are coerced into making contact.

That a personality structure (such as the True Self) is in the unconscious does not automatically mean that it is conflict-generating, or that it is involved in conflict, or that it has the potential to provoke conflict. As long as the True Self and the False Self remain out of touch, conflict is excluded.

The False Self pretends to be the only self and denies the existence of a True Self. It is also extremely useful (adaptive). Rather than risking constant conflict, the narcissist opts for a solution of "disengagement".

The classical Ego, proposed by Freud, is partly conscious and partly preconscious and unconscious. The narcissist's Ego is completely submerged. The preconscious and conscious parts are detached from it by early traumas and form the False Ego.

The Superego in healthy people constantly compares the Ego to the Ego Ideal. The narcissist has a different psychodynamic. The narcissist's False Self serves as a buffer and as a shock absorber between the True Ego and the narcissist's sadistic, punishing, immature Superego. The narcissist aspires to become pure Ideal Ego.

The narcissist's Ego cannot develop because it is deprived of contact with the outside world and, therefore, endures no growth-inducing conflict. The False Self is rigid. The result is that the narcissist is unable to respond and to adapt to threats, illnesses, and to other life crises and circumstances. He is brittle and prone to be broken rather than bent by life's trials and tribulations.

The Ego remembers, evaluates, plans, responds to the world and acts in it and on it. It is the locus of the "executive functions" of the personality. It integrates the inner world with the outer world, the Id with the Superego. It acts under a "reality principle" rather than a "pleasure principle".

This means that the Ego is in charge of delaying gratification. It postpones pleasurable acts until they can be carried out both safely and successfully. The Ego is, therefore, in an ungrateful position. Unfulfilled desires produce unease and anxiety. Reckless fulfilment of desires is diametrically opposed to self-preservation. The Ego has to mediate these tensions.

In an effort to thwart anxiety, the Ego invents psychological defence mechanisms. On the one hand the Ego channels fundamental drives. It has to "speak their language". It must have a primitive, infantile, component. On the other hand, the Ego is in charge of negotiating with the outside world and of securing a realistic and optimal "bargains" for its "client", the Id. These intellectual and perceptual functions are supervised by the exceptionally strict court of the Superego.

Persons with a strong Ego can objectively comprehend both the world and themselves. In other words, they are possessed of insight. They are able to contemplate longer time spans, plan, forecast and schedule. They choose decisively among alternatives and follow their resolve. They are aware of the existence of their drives, but control them and channel them in socially acceptable ways. They resist pressures – social or otherwise. They choose their course and pursue it.

The weaker the Ego is, the more infantile and impulsive its owner, the more distorted his or her perception of self and reality. A weak Ego is incapable of productive work.

The narcissist is an even more extreme case. His Ego is non-existent. The narcissist has a fake, substitute Ego. This is why his energy is drained. He spends most of it on maintaining, protecting and preserving the warped, unrealistic images of his (False) Self and of his (fake) world. The narcissist is a person exhausted by his own absence.

The healthy Ego preserves some sense of continuity and consistency. It serves as a point of reference. It relates events of the past to actions at present and to plans for the future. It incorporates memory, anticipation, imagination and intellect. It defines where the individual ends and the world begins. Though not coextensive with the body or with the personality, it is a close approximation.

In the narcissistic condition, all these functions are relegated to the False Ego. Its halo of confabulation rubs off on all of them. The narcissist is bound to develop false memories, conjure up false fantasies, anticipate the unrealistic and work his intellect to justify them.

The falsity of the False Self is dual: not only is it not "the real thing" – it also operates on false premises. It is a false and wrong gauge of the world. It falsely and inefficiently regulates the drives. It fails to thwart anxiety.

The False Self provides a false sense of continuity and of a "personal centre". It weaves an enchanted and grandiose fable as a substitute to reality. The narcissist gravitates out of his self and into a plot, a narrative, a story. He continuously feels that he is a character in a film, a fraudulent invention, or a con artist to be momentarily exposed and summarily socially excluded.

Moreover, the narcissist cannot be consistent or coherent. His False Self is preoccupied with the pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. The narcissist has no boundaries because his Ego is not sufficiently defined or fully differentiated. The only constancy is the narcissist's feelings of diffusion or annulment. This is especially true in life crises, when the False Ego ceases to function.

From the developmental point of view, all this is easily accounted for. The child reacts to stimuli, both internal and external. He cannot, however, control, alter, or anticipate them. Instead, he develops mechanisms to regulate the resulting tensions and anxieties.

The child's pursuit of mastery of his environment is compulsive. He is obsessed with securing gratification. Any postponement of his actions and responses forces him to tolerate added tension and anxiety. It is very surprising that the child ultimately learns to separate stimulus and response and delay the latter. This miracle of expedient self-denial has to do with the development of intellectual skills, on the one hand and with the socialisation process, on the other hand.

The intellect is a representation of the world. Through it, the Ego examines reality vicariously without suffering the consequences of possible errors. The Ego uses the intellect to simulate various courses of action and their consequences and to decide how to achieve its ends and the attendant gratification.

The intellect is what allows the child to anticipate the world and what makes him believe in the accuracy and high probability of his predictions. It is through the intellect that the concepts of the "laws of nature" and "predictability through order" are introduced. Causality and consistency are all mediated through the intellect.

But the intellect is best served with an emotional complement. Our picture of the world and of our place in it emerges from experience, both cognitive and emotional. Socialisation has a verbal-communicative element but, decoupled from a strong emotional component, it remains a dead letter.

An example: the child is likely to learn from his parents and from other adults that the world is a predictable, law abiding place. However, if his Primary Objects (most importantly, his mother) behave in a capricious, discriminating, unpredictable, unlawful, abusive, or indifferent manner – it hurts and the conflict between cognition and emotion is powerful. It is bound to paralyse the Ego functions of the child.

The accumulation and retention of past events is a prerequisite for both thinking and judgement. Both are impaired if one's personal history contradicts the content of the Superego and the lessons of the socialisation process. Narcissists are victims of such a glaring discrepancy: between what adult figures in their lives preached - and their contradictory course of action.

Once victimised, the narcissist swore "no more". He will do the victimizing now. And as a decoy, he presents to the world his False Self. But he falls prey to his own devices. Internally impoverished and undernourished, isolated and cushioned to the point of suffocation – the True Ego degenerates and decays. The narcissist wakes up one day to find that he is at the mercy of his False Self a
s much as his victims are.
 

zinc4

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It basically says that a narcistic person builds a false ego to shield their weaker original ego or sense of true self that is dictated by their self dilluded fantasies of grandour....and it becomes a sort of armour for their extremely fragile original ego that has never had a real chance to develope in the first place. So they can never really connect with anyone or anything on a deep level because they aren't even the slightest bit in touch with their actual selves if that makes any sense.

The narcissist is an even more extreme case. His Ego is non-existent. The narcissist has a fake, substitute Ego. This is why his energy is drained. He spends most of it on maintaining, protecting and preserving the warped, unrealistic images of his (False) Self and of his (fake) world. The narcissist is a person exhausted by his own absence.
 

betheman

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its an article on narcissism, not an excellent one,a headache to read, doesnt really say anything new
 

Bible_Belt

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I looked up the author: http://samvak.tripod.com/cv.html

He concedes that he is not a mental health professional, so it is more of an informal article. It may just be his own theories about the ego and NPD. I don't necessarily disagree; personality disorders are widely misunderstood, so I think everyone's theories about them have value.
 

Trailboss

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Wow...that just described that Ronaldo dude from the other thread! Total tool.....
 

Ronaldo7

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For the amount of attacks my thread received, I'm glad it has inspired others to create threads that involve me. It shows how much you care and how much it got to you.
 

Trailboss

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And what a tool you are for believing the mere mention of your narcissism implies involvement. And you couldn't get to me if you tried son....go back to your mirror.
 

( . )( . )

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All those words aside. For a young man just trying to get his end away this is useless.
All said and done narcissism is still one of the dark triad traits of which has always moistened up panties and always will.

I owe narcissism alot, it's always got me what I wanted as soon as I started taking advantage of it.

Who's to even say narcissism is unhealthy, this guy who needed a tonne of words just to explain why?
 
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Trailboss

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Narcissism is to the ego/self what Greed is to the wallet: a little bit can go a long way! But (As in you-know-who's case)too much and you turn into a complete tool.
 

Ronaldo7

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( . )( . ) said:
All those words aside. For a young man just trying to get his end away this is useless.
All said and done narcissism is still one of the dark triad traits of which has always moistened up panties and always will.

I owe narcissism alot, it's always got me what I wanted as soon as soon as I started taking advantage of it.

Who's to even say narcissism is unhealthy, this guy with a tonne of words needed to explain why?
Some people don't understand. If this is supposed to be a forum to share advice on picking up women, why is one of these so called "Dark Triad" trait attacked constantly?

@Trailboss: I did get to you. Why are you so intent whenever my name comes up? Every time i say something you seem to go off. This thread was obviously a sequence to my question for all it generated. Also, i am not a tool. Don't see why you think you think that.
 

Trailboss

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Keep dreaming kid...I'm neither intent nor interested. You have already proven yourself a lunatic and a moron. And yes: you are a TOOL! Have a nice day though...
 

saturnalia

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( . )( . ) said:
All those words aside. For a young man just trying to get his end away this is useless.
All said and done narcissism is still one of the dark triad traits of which has always moistened up panties and always will.

I owe narcissism alot, it's always got me what I wanted as soon as I started taking advantage of it.

Who's to even say narcissism is unhealthy, this guy who needed a tonne of words just to explain why?
thank you for sharing, these days nice guys have to become really bad, so they will center themselves right in the middle
 

saturnalia

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@zinc4

hi5 for the article, as Freud would have said it "wunderbar"

yet there`s something I just can`t get, that convoluted text you`ve shared, yes it`s almost tl;dr, how`s that supposed to help us?

like if I`m mentally insane, reading a description of my lunacy the magic pill for my solution

it`s like a mental masturbation, you know bunch of satellites can give you super accurate readings of the weather, yet your amazing cognitive skills won`t stop tornados

so why did you share that long text? are you still in the classroom waiting the pat on your back from the teacher

imagine if a virgin guy would read that, what would it help him? hell no, he needs a woman, not unpragmatic theories

or imagine a caveman reading it ... oooppss they can`t read, neither did they need seduction tehniques

the joke is on you wise boy
 

Kawai

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There's Truth To This

This can work for as well as against you! When I say "against", I'm referring to the opposite sex employing these tactics and you not realizing it soon enough.

Hey guys, oddly enough I just broke it off with one of the girls I was seeing due to NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). In fact I finally finished up doing some supplemental research on the matter, so this post was timely.

I'm not a therapist but was engaged/living with a PsyD for 3 years who enlightened me on quite a bit. Also, my professional background almost forces me to research anything I think is interesting.

Long story short, I dated a girl a couple years ago who basically handed me her diagnosis on a silver plater without telling me she was diagnosed. She even mentioned her rocky childhood (sexual abuse), and probed me for any such background. I didn't realize it at the start but she was HPD (Histrionic Personality Disorder) which is considered to be another variation of NPD but with a sexual lure to reel in victims.

Considering the number of girls I've been involved with (I'm sure there's a disorder for me as well), there have only been two I would have considered to fall into a personality disorder. Two out of hundreds, so I think it's important that one is not quick to "armchair" diagnose simply because you get dumped or the girl displays disinterest. There are however a number of signs that when added up will favor a disorder. The important thing to note is that unlike Bipolar or other chemical imbalances, PDs are behavioral and closely related to child abuse/neglect during the early development years. Most often there's a story of alcohol abuse, drug abuse, mother with multiple sex partners, father MIA, and so on.

In many cases, simply knowing the troubled individual is not enough to discover their personality tics as people with PDs also realize that they do not adhere to social norms and will provide an acceptable facade to bypass initial judgment. The caveat to this is that PDed individuals have learned to manipulate in subtle ways, as they learned how to do this in order to gain acceptance, love, and attention from their parents. So this begins the basis for how they will interact with the rest of the world for years to come.

Please note that just because someone has had a troubled past does not mean they will have a PD later in life, but the odds weigh against them.

The key here is to follow your gut and pay attention to actions vs. words. Additionally, you will almost always have the feeling something isn't quite right even though everything on the surface appears to be. You'll most often notice that responses to normal questions will be slightly odd, maybe a particular reaction/over reaction to something most people might say, "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with that question", this is normal, whereas a PDed person will say something that initially sounds legit, but when you really stop and consider what they just said, your like "What the F#$@?". In almost every instance of PDs there's a lack of boundary recognition (yours not hers).

So as a real life example from the girl I ended up nexting last week. On date #2 we started talking about having kids. She mentioned that she doesn't want anymore (she has one) because she hates kids...but she has one. Then in literally 15 secs she turns around and states that she would adopt. I sorta sat there wondering if she was going to adopt a 21 year-old...since she hates kids.

I added this info to the fact that she's a FB addict where almost all her pics show her at a club holding a drink, then added the fact that I know for a fact that she goes out and drinks many times a week, plus on date #1 she changed the venue on me, date # 2 she dictated that certain portions of our conversation were not permitted (they weren't inappropriate or rude), plus she instigated the first kiss, sex on both dates #1 & #2...was cold and distant the next day both times...and has a mother who was both an alcoholic and has a mental illness...and the girl never knew her father...and she was court ordered to live with her grandparents who were very strict and wouldn't let her date, so she did anyway...and into her late 20's almost 30 she's never been proposed to. The icing on the cake...all of her past boyfriends were codependent, which she proudly explained what went down, it was obvious they were codependent and she was the controlling one who got to kick them to the curb when she was done with them. Ohhh...did I not mention her status on POF for the past 5 years or the fact that she made a New Years resolution to stop drinking, only to break that resolution the day before our second date...so she could have drinks on our date. All of this from a seriously stunning woman who I initially wondered why she was on POF in the first place. Very classy/sexy exterior with a great professional/positive attitude.

No one or two items here are deciding factors, but when you have that many and then consider a few more, you have a full picture of someone who will destroy you if you get involved emotionally.

NPDs identity are tightly tied to their image and social standing. Any slight made against any of these will invoke distancing or will cause them to prove you otherwise. If you tell most girls you think they're a 7, they'll probably just laugh and tell you to go to hell or that you're only a 4. An NPD will either distance themselves quickly, punish you through embarrassment, or try to prove you wrong if they seek your approval. In my case, the NPD was offended by my banter but still sent me a picture the next day to prove she was beautiful.

You have to do your homework and you can't be quick to label. You also have to be 100% honest with yourself to ensure your ego isn't getting in the way. If you do all of this and have a significant number of indicators there's a real chance your dealing with a PDed person and no amount of game will place you in secure standing. In fact, unless you're NPD yourself you run a real risk of getting caught up in their insane reality and experiencing a bad case of depression or worse.

There's a ton of info on Psychforums.com and Shrinkformen.com.

Part of dating and getting numbers is attempting to know who you're dealing with and protecting #1 to save yourself the aggravation of a nasty situation via breaking up or marrying this person and paying for it decades later.

I hope many of you do not write off this thread and take it seriously because about 10% of the US female population suffers from a PD and will unintentionally destroy your life and take half of whatever you own.

Good luck
 

The Duke

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Kawai and Zinc, thanks for sharing. Some very good explanations.
 

zinc4

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saturnalia said:
@zinc4

hi5 for the article, as Freud would have said it "wunderbar"

yet there`s something I just can`t get, that convoluted text you`ve shared, yes it`s almost tl;dr, how`s that supposed to help us?

like if I`m mentally insane, reading a description of my lunacy the magic pill for my solution

it`s like a mental masturbation, you know bunch of satellites can give you super accurate readings of the weather, yet your amazing cognitive skills won`t stop tornados

so why did you share that long text? are you still in the classroom waiting the pat on your back from the teacher

imagine if a virgin guy would read that, what would it help him? hell no, he needs a woman, not unpragmatic theories

or imagine a caveman reading it ... oooppss they can`t read, neither did they need seduction tehniques

the joke is on you wise boy

Purpose of this is not to help you get girls or to fix yourself...it's to be able to identify this problem in others and properly deal with them before their problems become yours. It's also meant to explain their over the top behavior and to see it as what it is, a weakness.
 

saturnalia

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zinc4 said:
Purpose of this is not to help you get girls or to fix yourself...it's to be able to identify this problem in others and properly deal with them before their problems become yours. It's also meant to explain their over the top behavior and to see it as what it is, a weakness.
you don`t get it, do you?

long convoluted post on analysis of a mental issue, is like a huge analysis of stock market patterns or weather patterns with a supercomputer

understanding something doesn`t mean you have power over it

analysis does not equal solution

for example, they do electro-shock therapy on some of the hardest cases, the byproduct of is generally memory loss and in some cases they loose the memories of what should they be depressed about and their depression ends

analysis = mental masturbation

forums = safe haven for mental masturbators

if mental analysis would be all that it takes, everybody would be loosing weight, getting rich and laid as soon as they leave the shrinks office

truth is most people are just as messed up after 3-4 years of therapy as they were before
 
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