Check this out.
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6989
About 8 years ago I was what many in the seduction community would call an "AFC". It's not a term I like, but it gets the point across. I was at that point where PUA and related concepts became very important to me to get out of this dating rut I was in. Back then "game" seemed like the ultimate answer to a poor social life and lack ofwomen in my life, but after years of experience and trial and error I have come to realize that "game" is only a life raft. If you are sinking and don't know how to swim it can help you overcome some of your biggest mistakes. But it's all relative. If you're starving even a sh*t sandwich can seem appetizing. But admittedly I did have a fair degree of success with PUA material. The only problem was the level of success was in many ways abnormal; the women were shallow, manipulative, stimulation seeking, emotionally unregulated drama queens. PUA material was merely a way to navigate a broken system, a way to get results, no matter how lacklustre those results are, and then call it success.
It's worth mentioning that the best women I met were the ones that didn't require game. Everything was normal, and went seamlessly. So it's completely untrue that good game gets good women. Overcoming obstacles is not the path to getting good women. That's why I now only screen for women who make it easy for me. The law of returns works in my favor. The same goes if you only want sex. The best lays are "foolsmate" lays, contrary to what Mystery et al believe.
Over time I began to see that the seduction community has two major flaws: The first flaw is that it teaches you the very contradictory message that you have to learn to be masculine and be your own man while catering to women and their actions. So no matter what she does, it's up to you to calibrate it for best effect. If she wants ****y and funny you better be ****y and funny. If she wants an as*hole you better be that too. If she wants entertainment and you aren't entertaining then she will move on to the next guy who is.
The second flaw is that the seduction community never or rarely addresses those things that women are doing wrong. It's like a child who throws a tantrum and instead of disciplining him or her you take the position that you have to find out what it is they want and give it to them. There's this intense fear that if you call out women on their misbehaviour you are a chump or weak or unable to take it like a man. So rather than do that, many guys prefer to just take the "spoil the child" approach to getting laid. Game is basically a coping strategy for women's rotten behaviour. If a woman has attitude and is unresponsive god forbid you tell her to open up. It's your job to figure out what buttons to push.
It's not hard to see that game and PUA material is a downward spiral. I digress...
I signed up for this forum because I can relate to its premise. Although I have not traveled much I know for sure that women abroad are better. In fact some of the friendliest most open women I have met came here from overseas. And I've known guys who moved here and have taken a serious hit in their social life. So some might say that the traveler status helps, and when guys say they do better abroad it's because of that. Now, there is likely some truth to that, but like I said, I've known guys who have moved here from overseas who suddenly found themselves dateless and having a hard time making connections.
In my neck of the woods, women follow this rigid structure on where and how to meet men. As a result I've only ever met women at clubs and through the internet. Despite many, many attempts I have almost never met anyone through daytime pickup; either at the mall, bookstore, bus stop etc. You would think it was easy. Well you would be wrong.
Some might say that I wasn't gaming right or I was doing something wrong. That may have been more true in the beginning. But now I know it's the women that are closed off. It becomes most obvious when I get much better reactions from women when I meet them through friends or acquaintances (the accepted channels), but when I meet them out in public there's this wall that comes up. Hard to explain, but it's like this polite onthe surface , but wanting to get the hell out of there vibe. And yet I am the same person everywhere, but the location makes all the difference. The PUA stuff is not a solution to this. It can help a bit but like this site owner said, they already have to be into you. I resisted this notion for the longest time but eventually I concluded that if you have overcome your shyness and are comfortable talking with strangers then PUA won't help. PUA only helps if you are very introverted; in which case PUA gives you material to work with, kind of like training wheels. There's also probably a placebo effect where you feel good about it and that shows in your overall vibe, making you more attractive.
So the only real benefit of PUA is that it's a template to get you talking, but it's no more useful than religion is to make you a better or more attractive person. Guys who cling to this are simply in life-raft mode, scared to move on to solid land or to greener pastures; which is what this site talks about.
It's a shame that these so-called PUA gurus are getting so much attention, with guys spending tons of money on their products. But none of these gurus talk about the dysfunctional dating culture in North America. To do that would admit a weakness that can't be marketed, and these guys have money to make. Take David DeAngelo for instance, who does provide some good information, but also some very bad. He seems to underscore all his good advice with this one sentence: "Do this to get women". Learn hobbies, be funny and interesting dot-dot-dot because it helps you get women. You have to wonder how far along he really is in his personal development.
Then there's Mystery, always teaching coping techniques on how to deal with any and all adverse dating situations. His classic line: "Men must learn to attract beautiful women or their genes will be mercilessly weeded out of existence". Great line BTW, plays on fear. And once the fear is primed a solution is offered. Very cult like. The only problem with this classic line is that it's relatively easy to eventually propagate your genes with someone, even in this dysfunctional culture, as long as you go out enough and talk to enough women. And the whole notion of "beautiful woman" is biased because in Mystery's and his followers view, only dolled up 18-25 year olds are beautiful or "perfect 10s", and since the techniques play on these women's insecurities (typical for girls this age) they are lauded as superior; ie. they get the "best women". If the techniques don't work, and they won't on older more intelligent women it is said that these women are not the best anyway. yada yada and you can say thatthe techniques are engineered to get the highest quality women and they won't work on the lower value women (anyone over 25). It's PUA slight of hand basically. Thing is, with evolutionary biology arguments you can prove just about anything. Lots of makeup is called superior beauty and immaturity is called exceptional femininity. Therefore, the (dysfunctional) techniques work on the "most beautiful, most feminine women".
Interestingly, Mystery comes from Toronto, Ontario. So his techniques are an adaptation to the type of women there. It's very telling and I would say useful from an academic point of view. Such techniques do not work well on women who have not been exposed to feminist dogma. And since Toronto is extremely politically correct, feminism thrives there, ruining relationships between men and women. I can attest that it's a very bad city to meet women. Even the best women relatively speaking leave a lot to be desired. But if I post this complaint on a PUA forum the majority of responses are going to be, do more push/pull, qualifying, compliance testing etc. That will not work when you are up against indoctrinated fear and hatred of males. I had to move away from Toronto for that main reason, and things are better where I am. But since I'm still in Ontario, the problems still exist, but to a lesser degree.
Don't get me wrong, I do think men honestly need to look at themselves and be willing to fix their issues. But we also can't ignore that women need to do their part too. THAT is what is missing from this culture: criticism of females. The assumption is always that men need to do the self-improvement part. But learning how to meet women will only go anywhere if the women are willing to do their part. Why should I put my best foot forward and go to all these lengths to meet women when they have already made up their mind that they don't want to meet me. Why throw pearls to swine? Sure, you can argue that maybe I'm doing something wrong. And that's possible, but if it is always assumed that the guy is at fault, then is it not likely that, in the absence of forced female introspection, women will become increasingly blind to their own shortcomings? And as a result, is it not likely that the true fault will eventually shift to women for the most part.
But nope, don't criticize women. Instead cope, be a man, and keep a positive attitude. Like the site owner said, a positive attitude won't help if women have an axe to grind. One thing I've learned is that a positive attitude helps but not with women who act like stone-faced gatekeepers. I've gone into many situations with a positive attitude and gotten burned. Sh*t happens. Just tell that to the survivors of a natural disaster who seconds before were living and enjoying life. You do not have control over everything. It's a certain new-age BS that has creeped into many people's thinking that has made a mockery of rational thinking.
(continued in next post)
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6989
About 8 years ago I was what many in the seduction community would call an "AFC". It's not a term I like, but it gets the point across. I was at that point where PUA and related concepts became very important to me to get out of this dating rut I was in. Back then "game" seemed like the ultimate answer to a poor social life and lack ofwomen in my life, but after years of experience and trial and error I have come to realize that "game" is only a life raft. If you are sinking and don't know how to swim it can help you overcome some of your biggest mistakes. But it's all relative. If you're starving even a sh*t sandwich can seem appetizing. But admittedly I did have a fair degree of success with PUA material. The only problem was the level of success was in many ways abnormal; the women were shallow, manipulative, stimulation seeking, emotionally unregulated drama queens. PUA material was merely a way to navigate a broken system, a way to get results, no matter how lacklustre those results are, and then call it success.
It's worth mentioning that the best women I met were the ones that didn't require game. Everything was normal, and went seamlessly. So it's completely untrue that good game gets good women. Overcoming obstacles is not the path to getting good women. That's why I now only screen for women who make it easy for me. The law of returns works in my favor. The same goes if you only want sex. The best lays are "foolsmate" lays, contrary to what Mystery et al believe.
Over time I began to see that the seduction community has two major flaws: The first flaw is that it teaches you the very contradictory message that you have to learn to be masculine and be your own man while catering to women and their actions. So no matter what she does, it's up to you to calibrate it for best effect. If she wants ****y and funny you better be ****y and funny. If she wants an as*hole you better be that too. If she wants entertainment and you aren't entertaining then she will move on to the next guy who is.
The second flaw is that the seduction community never or rarely addresses those things that women are doing wrong. It's like a child who throws a tantrum and instead of disciplining him or her you take the position that you have to find out what it is they want and give it to them. There's this intense fear that if you call out women on their misbehaviour you are a chump or weak or unable to take it like a man. So rather than do that, many guys prefer to just take the "spoil the child" approach to getting laid. Game is basically a coping strategy for women's rotten behaviour. If a woman has attitude and is unresponsive god forbid you tell her to open up. It's your job to figure out what buttons to push.
It's not hard to see that game and PUA material is a downward spiral. I digress...
I signed up for this forum because I can relate to its premise. Although I have not traveled much I know for sure that women abroad are better. In fact some of the friendliest most open women I have met came here from overseas. And I've known guys who moved here and have taken a serious hit in their social life. So some might say that the traveler status helps, and when guys say they do better abroad it's because of that. Now, there is likely some truth to that, but like I said, I've known guys who have moved here from overseas who suddenly found themselves dateless and having a hard time making connections.
In my neck of the woods, women follow this rigid structure on where and how to meet men. As a result I've only ever met women at clubs and through the internet. Despite many, many attempts I have almost never met anyone through daytime pickup; either at the mall, bookstore, bus stop etc. You would think it was easy. Well you would be wrong.
Some might say that I wasn't gaming right or I was doing something wrong. That may have been more true in the beginning. But now I know it's the women that are closed off. It becomes most obvious when I get much better reactions from women when I meet them through friends or acquaintances (the accepted channels), but when I meet them out in public there's this wall that comes up. Hard to explain, but it's like this polite onthe surface , but wanting to get the hell out of there vibe. And yet I am the same person everywhere, but the location makes all the difference. The PUA stuff is not a solution to this. It can help a bit but like this site owner said, they already have to be into you. I resisted this notion for the longest time but eventually I concluded that if you have overcome your shyness and are comfortable talking with strangers then PUA won't help. PUA only helps if you are very introverted; in which case PUA gives you material to work with, kind of like training wheels. There's also probably a placebo effect where you feel good about it and that shows in your overall vibe, making you more attractive.
So the only real benefit of PUA is that it's a template to get you talking, but it's no more useful than religion is to make you a better or more attractive person. Guys who cling to this are simply in life-raft mode, scared to move on to solid land or to greener pastures; which is what this site talks about.
It's a shame that these so-called PUA gurus are getting so much attention, with guys spending tons of money on their products. But none of these gurus talk about the dysfunctional dating culture in North America. To do that would admit a weakness that can't be marketed, and these guys have money to make. Take David DeAngelo for instance, who does provide some good information, but also some very bad. He seems to underscore all his good advice with this one sentence: "Do this to get women". Learn hobbies, be funny and interesting dot-dot-dot because it helps you get women. You have to wonder how far along he really is in his personal development.
Then there's Mystery, always teaching coping techniques on how to deal with any and all adverse dating situations. His classic line: "Men must learn to attract beautiful women or their genes will be mercilessly weeded out of existence". Great line BTW, plays on fear. And once the fear is primed a solution is offered. Very cult like. The only problem with this classic line is that it's relatively easy to eventually propagate your genes with someone, even in this dysfunctional culture, as long as you go out enough and talk to enough women. And the whole notion of "beautiful woman" is biased because in Mystery's and his followers view, only dolled up 18-25 year olds are beautiful or "perfect 10s", and since the techniques play on these women's insecurities (typical for girls this age) they are lauded as superior; ie. they get the "best women". If the techniques don't work, and they won't on older more intelligent women it is said that these women are not the best anyway. yada yada and you can say thatthe techniques are engineered to get the highest quality women and they won't work on the lower value women (anyone over 25). It's PUA slight of hand basically. Thing is, with evolutionary biology arguments you can prove just about anything. Lots of makeup is called superior beauty and immaturity is called exceptional femininity. Therefore, the (dysfunctional) techniques work on the "most beautiful, most feminine women".
Interestingly, Mystery comes from Toronto, Ontario. So his techniques are an adaptation to the type of women there. It's very telling and I would say useful from an academic point of view. Such techniques do not work well on women who have not been exposed to feminist dogma. And since Toronto is extremely politically correct, feminism thrives there, ruining relationships between men and women. I can attest that it's a very bad city to meet women. Even the best women relatively speaking leave a lot to be desired. But if I post this complaint on a PUA forum the majority of responses are going to be, do more push/pull, qualifying, compliance testing etc. That will not work when you are up against indoctrinated fear and hatred of males. I had to move away from Toronto for that main reason, and things are better where I am. But since I'm still in Ontario, the problems still exist, but to a lesser degree.
Don't get me wrong, I do think men honestly need to look at themselves and be willing to fix their issues. But we also can't ignore that women need to do their part too. THAT is what is missing from this culture: criticism of females. The assumption is always that men need to do the self-improvement part. But learning how to meet women will only go anywhere if the women are willing to do their part. Why should I put my best foot forward and go to all these lengths to meet women when they have already made up their mind that they don't want to meet me. Why throw pearls to swine? Sure, you can argue that maybe I'm doing something wrong. And that's possible, but if it is always assumed that the guy is at fault, then is it not likely that, in the absence of forced female introspection, women will become increasingly blind to their own shortcomings? And as a result, is it not likely that the true fault will eventually shift to women for the most part.
But nope, don't criticize women. Instead cope, be a man, and keep a positive attitude. Like the site owner said, a positive attitude won't help if women have an axe to grind. One thing I've learned is that a positive attitude helps but not with women who act like stone-faced gatekeepers. I've gone into many situations with a positive attitude and gotten burned. Sh*t happens. Just tell that to the survivors of a natural disaster who seconds before were living and enjoying life. You do not have control over everything. It's a certain new-age BS that has creeped into many people's thinking that has made a mockery of rational thinking.
(continued in next post)
