Everyone should be forced to speak "proper" English

[Jariel]

In English speaking countries there are movements who consider the Queen's English (received pronunciation) the only correct form of English. They believe that all English speakers should speak this way.

I see a lot of guys like to talk Black American Vernacular English or "Gangsta" as it's less formally known, others talk casually or some groups like skaters use a lot of slang words. The sitcom Friends started a lot of expressions too.

I admit, I find white people talking "gangsta" pretty sad, but I do believe they should have the freedom to do so. But how would you feel if these ways of speaking were forbidden at school and you were only allowed to talk in "proper" English?

Why would you have a problem with it?

Also, to everyone who speaks "gangsta", could you tell me why?

Do you think there is any advantage to us all speaking the Queen's English?


I was involved in a class discussion today and wanted to get some more diverse opinions.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Things are done a bit differently here in the States. Even though English is the national language, many states do not "enforce" it's usage. Given there's a myriad of immigrants entering the country you would think that there would be a higher effort to teach them the national language. Instead the norm is to spend our efforts adjusting to their customs.

Now understanding that we won't enforce learning the national language for immigrants, we'd have an extremely difficult time enforcing it with natural citizens. In fact, there has already been uprisings stating that our standardized tests in our education system aren't fair to all citizens because the "Queen's English" in which the questions are written, aren't easily understood by students (naturals in addition to immigrants).

Do I believe that enforcing the proper use of the national language in all levels of education would be beneficial? Absolutely! However, enforcing such a thing would be very difficult for a substantial portion of the population. A good portion of what's posted on the Net from the States including this forum depicts our lingual challenges.

 

[Faded Image]

First of all, it's no such thing as "Gangsta Talk" (most of them learn how to speak though their own form of sign language), we speak the way everyone
around us speak.

It's slang that changes everyday for example: "Popping my collar (to show off)", "Rollin' on 24's" (Riding on 24 inch rims)" "What's really good (what's going on)" Parking Lot Pimpin (Picking up women outside of a Club). I'm a Black Male from Alabama and we can use the English language through the slang i've posted above and understand it clearly.

 

[mpimpin]

First of all, it's no such thing as "Gangsta Talk" (most of them learn how to speak though their own form of sign language), we speak the way everyone
around us speak.

It's slang that changes everyday for example: "Popping my collar (to show off)", "Rollin' on 24's" (Riding on 24 inch rims)" "What's really good (what's going on)" Parking Lot Pimpin (Picking up women outside of a Club). I'm a Black Male from Alabama and we can use the English language through the slang i've posted above and understand it clearly.

I'm a white male in Alabama and both races speak slang where I'm at. It's the enviroment that you live in. People talk in their own way or sub languages in all communities via mixed languages, slang, etc.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

Slang happens. Every generation has their own slang words. It happens. You can't force people to speak properly, there will always be slang and improper pronounciation and poor enunciation of words. It's going to happen, if they can't read English, it's time to learn.

 

[S1NN3R]

Do you think there is any advantage to us all speaking the Queen's English?

None what so ever. I could go on and on about the inherent freedom of being able to say whatever you want however you want to say it, or talk about how the simple act of speaking is the 0utward exposition of the minds innner workings and to regulate that it to almost attempt to regulate the thoughts of an individual, or even to say that to restrict a person's lexicon is to stifle the colorful and creative thing that gives each and every one of us our individuality which makes us all different and so much fun to be around. I could say that to make us all speak in one way is the first step towards a totalitarian government creating and army of identical robot subjects primed for any and all human rights violations that may profit the ones in control.

I could expand on all of that and talk about all of the harm that forcing people to speak the Queen's English, but it's not really the reason that I think people should have "freedom of vernacular". No the reason I think they should is that it makes it easier for me to ignore someone if I know right away that they speak "ghetto", otherwise I have to wait to get to know them to realize that I don't want anything to do with them. It's a good qualifier for me, if somone starts spouting off in ghetto-speak, I know we're not getting along 98% of the time.

Well, that and I'm Irish, so "the Queen" has no points left with me.

 

[Scrumtulescence]

Do you think there is any advantage to us all speaking the Queen's English?

No.

Just sounds like pretentious linguistic elitism to me.

 

[Jariel]

Thanks for the replies. Some very interesting viewpoints here. I'm kind of on the fence about it. I agree that there are a lot of advantages theoretically speaking, but I strongly agree with S1nners view of language being part of an identity that shouldn't be repressed.

What bothers me about this is that even though you can't be forced to speak "properly", most teachers will mark your written work as incorrect if you write in a "non-standard" English form. And if they catch you speaking slang or using double negatives and so on, they will correct you on the spot and tell you it's incorrect. So effectively, they are already trying to enforce the Queen's English.

But on the other side of the coin, some slang (like the examples given by Faded Image) need to be translated for the average person to understand, so it causes a communication problem. Plus it's going to harm your chances in formal situations (i.e. job interviews) so it's bad in that sense.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

The truth of the matter is, using slang or 'gangsta' talk is definate implication of ignorance. For the most part, intelligent people do not talk this way. And not only do intelligent people not talk this way but succesful people do not as well.

If you look at the areas and groups of people who speak in such an "uneducated" manner you will find they are often most part of the lower-income/poverty group. And those who are not (i.e. suburban whitey living on the hill) are just doing it because pop-culture glamourizes it. But once little suburban Johnny reaches a certain level of maturity and chooses a path of success he will cease to talk like an idiot.

And let me make it clear that I grew up surrounded by this talk and below/at the poverty level and made a concious choice not to talk like a moron.

Now that does not mean one should absolutely abstain from adopting the language of the culture one is in. You just need to be aware of when it is acceptable and when it makes you look inbred.


Let me make it clear that you should talk how you want to. If being "gangsta" is your thing then go for. Just don't be suprised when you end up missing opportunities (assuming you have ambition) because of how you are perceived by those who run things. (And unless you're trying to be a rapper, those who run things speak ENGLISH 99% of the time)

And for the record, anybody who says "aksed" instead of "asked" needs to be shot.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...And for the record, anybody who says "aksed" instead of "asked" needs to be shot.

Not before people who say (or type) "prolly."

Just a pet peeve of mine...

 

[S1NN3R]

Not before people who say (or type) "prolly."

Just a pet peeve of mine...

Iono wut ur complaining about. Jus lax it up, y0!. Go sit and peep the Liza fo a lil bit, itll be a'ight.

 

[seanchai]

By "the Queen's English" do you mean Received Pronunciation? The BBC doesn't even push that anymore in favor of regional accents, and only the most pretentious Americans it.

Or maybe you mean proper English. I think (for instance) Black English is pretty, but not useful, much like Irish. I think people should speak whatever they want, and then that should become the standard. Language isn't static.

 

[insanity]

its funny ya know. when i watch tv and hear people talk. i always thought i sounded the same. but when i moved from new brunswick to alberta. everybody said that i have a funny accent and they thought i was a newfie. when i spoke to people they always told me to slow down when i spoke. that was strange.

but there's nothing worse then somebody moving to england and when they come back like a few months later they have the accent.....think madonna.

 

[Le Parisien]

People should be able to speak whatever language/slang they want to, however, only the standardized proper national language form should be used at school in classes.

I have no problem with students talking ghetto or gangsta or ebonics or whatever as longs as they write their papers, participate in class, address a public, talk at formal events in proper english. If they can only do slang but not proper english, then it's probably time to learn.

Concerning the internet, especially on a forum like this, I think people should be free. However, I'd prefer to read proper english with some slang touch to lighten things up here and there. Otherwise it's just too tiring.

Queen's English? I'm sorry, but languages are only one of the many manifestations of power. Nowadays, American English is the norm. For the generation of my parents, talking Bristish was "cool"; but for now, America wins hands down. Just look around you, movies, music, pop culture, even in science, economy etc, American English has become the standard.

Of course I'm talking from a non-native English speaker's stand point, I won't ask you brits and aussies to talk like Americans.

Actually this phenomenon happens for many other languages as well. For example, the standard of mandarin chinese used to be driven by taiwan. And due to the influence of Hong Kong, the use of cantonese inside the chinese communities was also pervasive. But nowadays, with mainland China's rise to power and prosperity, the Beijing style standard mandarin is becoming the norm inside the chinese cultural zones of influence.

So for all you brits, please don't feel too bad... History's like a boat, it goes up and down...

 

[MetalFortress]

Today's slang is tomorrow's standard English. Every evolution of every language starts off as slang. Think about it.

 

[PRMoon]

Gansta = Ebonics which is an informal version of english spoken mostly in urban areas. In rural places around the US mountain jibberish and heavy southern accents are prevelant as well. All of these are indigeionus to the areas in which they are spoken. Should these dialects all be standardized? No, because they encourage what this country was illegedlly founded on (but not really and even less so these days) which is diversity. Remember when america was called "The Mixing Pot"? they meant diversity even though that wasn't really how it was and these days one has to wonder as well, but we need to keep things some what diverse to maintain and build upon cultures. Before anyone gets pissed, let me say that I'm not saying races should be kept seperate. I mean keep things diverse by regions ie state pride not black panthers or KKK.

 

[KillaCam]

MetalFortress is on the button.

It's all in the evolution of our language. Every generation sees is, and some don't agree with it, but that's just the way things go. I'm sure as hell glad we still don't speak 1600's english, but then again, that was the norm.

As long as we don't start speaking chronic 1337 talk, i'm happy.

 

[spider_007]

Things are done a bit differently here in the States. Even though English is the national language, many states do not "enforce" it's usage. Given there's a myriad of immigrants entering the country you would think that there would be a higher effort to teach them the national language. Instead the norm is to spend our efforts adjusting to their customs.

Now understanding that we won't enforce learning the national language for immigrants, we'd have an extremely difficult time enforcing it with natural citizens. In fact, there has already been uprisings stating that our standardized tests in our education system aren't fair to all citizens because the "Queen's English" in which the questions are written, aren't easily understood by students (naturals in addition to immigrants).

Do I believe that enforcing the proper use of the national language in all levels of education would be beneficial? Absolutely! However, enforcing such a thing would be very difficult for a substantial portion of the population. A good portion of what's posted on the Net from the States including this forum depicts our lingual challenges.

...And here i though you had something smart to say.

-economy bad - blame it on the imigrants
-terorist attacs - blame it on the imigratns
-having highschool kids in belgum speak better english then a higschool kid in states - blame it on the imigrants.

 

[Le Parisien]

...And here i though you had something smart to say.

-economy bad - blame it on the imigrants
-terorist attacs - blame it on the imigratns
-having highschool kids in belgum speak better english then a higschool kid in states - blame it on the imigrants.

It's funny what you wrote on the very thread about proper English...

- You know it's "immigrant" not "imigrant" right?

- You know it's "terrorist" not "terorist" right?

- You know it's "attacks" not "attacs" right?

- You know that it's "in the states" not "in states" right?

Hope you were just joking... But looking at the tone of your contribution, I'm not sure...

Maybe you are a FOB immigrant who doesn't master English properly and who blames the locals for his own shortcomings...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...And here i though you had something smart to say.

-economy bad - blame it on the imigrants
-terorist attacs - blame it on the imigratns
-having highschool kids in belgum speak better english then a higschool kid in states - blame it on the imigrants.

Gosh I'm glad you're in another country. At least it gives you the excuse for having such an assed-backwards understanding of what I said.