Epic Fail w/ a 10 "not ready to date" & LJBF situation - Tell me what you think.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

IgetIT! nailed everything. Great analyze.

 

[Igetit!]

When I think of sexualizing conversations I really associate it closely with kino. I'm just more comfortable that way

When I say "sexual",I mean WORDS.

I don't mean to grab her boob,butt,or anything like that. And when I say "sexual",I mean sexual,NOT VULGAR or OBSCENE.

I don't mean to tell a girl you want her to suck your d#ck or anything abrasive like that,that's stupid.



I simply mean sexual innuendo. It's simple.....

tell her you like that way she looks in something she's wearing
Tell her to wear a low cut short out on the date. If she asks why,be like,Why? Well hey,you might drop something on the floor and have to bend down to pick it up. I just believe in being prepared,that's all ".


You may think that saying stuff like that is offensive to girls,but I'm telling you,it's NOT. If it were some random girl you don't know it might,to someone who's ALREADY agreed to go out with you,no.

It didn't seem like the right time and place to just start jumping into sexual-related chat[, she didn't seem to be at that comfort level yet.

The date is THE PERFECT time and place for sexual talk/chat. If not on the date,then where? At her job? The exercise gym?

Look,IF YOU ASK A GIRL OUT,and SHE SAYS YES,then on some level,she's already agreed to THE POSSIBILITY of being sexual with you.


A "DATE" by definition IS sexual. THE WHOLE REASON she even went out with you in the first place was because of a sexual spark she felt.


If you don't think "dates" are sexual,then walk up to a GUY,and ask him out. There,see what I mean?

For example, to enter a more sexual convo & state, I started discussing this experience I had at a late-night crazy sexual hypnotist show where he was making the volunteers get all sexual with each other, it was a great lead in to other sexual topics, but overall it didn't lead to any sexual banter between the two of us. The story is hilarious, it got her laughing, but that's pretty much it. That key sexual banter was missing.

Two reasons as to why this may have failed....

1:You had a LOGICAL discussion about sex. Women are emotional. You have to get those emotions stirring while talking about sex. She has to FEEL something.

2:You didn't make it PERSONAL,pertaining to you and her.

You can't talk about sex like it was something that happened in a galaxy,FAR,FAR AWAY. It has to be either recent,or right here right now.

I felt a lack of connection because of her unmatched energy level. I wasn't all giddy and crazy and smiley. I was just "normal" and we had calm, average discussions. It's not like I was jumping off the walls and she was slouched in the corner. We were both engaging each other and talkative, it just felt off (The best way for me to describe this is that she admittedly didn't "understand me" - my outlook on life is: work for myself, run my business, invest, enjoy my hobbies, have fun - hers is... work 9-5 for a big corporation, have barely any hobbies, go out drinking with friends cause there's nothing else to do).

This was all comfort..and BORING. And to use YOUR WORDS...you said that the conversations you had with her were "Normal", "Calm" ,and "Average".


Snoozefest my friend.

I was wondering to myself "If she accepted a date, she must be interested; therefore why is her energy level so low?" trying to figure this out was strange for me and I didn't quite get it.

She accepted the date because you were an UNKNOWN. Look,WHATEVER you said or did IN THE APPROACH got her interested,and WHATEVER IT WAS,I highly doubt it was "normal,calm,or average".



In your first post,you said she told you that you had "the coolest life ever". Well I don't know what you said to her,but I GUARANTEE you....she didn't say that "coolest life ever" comment because of a "normal,calm,or average" conversation you had with her.


Something about the way you interacted with her during the pickup and the way you interacted with her ON THE DATE changed.

One of her very few hobbies she has is playing the guitar. I thought it would be a good transition. I don't really know what else I would've asked her for a day 2? I thought long and hard about it. I was NOT going to do anything remotely date-ish. I thought of anything that could be as far away as a date as possible, which lead me to that decision. Was that stupid of me?

No.


The guitar hero suggestion WAS NOT STUPID of you,it was just OUT OF PLACE. That was COMFORT. It's A.C.S./attraction,comfort,seduction...in THAT order. If she was already attracted to you,that suggestion would have been PERFECT.


It was just premature.

Are you suggesting I call her within a few days and attempt to jump into a highly sexual frame?

No,I'm not. I'm just saying that if you and her do continue speaking,you MAY BE able to repair this.

I DO NOT THINK you are in the "friend" zone......YET. If you go along with her "be friends" suggestion,then you WILL BE.


I'm just saying that IF there is any further contact between you two,BE SEXUAL with her. You two still don't know each other,it's still early. So there's a chance to repair what went wrong on the date.



You need to do one of two things.....

1:STAY AWAY FROM HER...

or

2:If there is further contact,flirt,tease,use sexual innuendo. You'll have to ease into,otherwise you'll look weird,but you DO have to start.


It's either that,or move on.




Oh yeah,and one more thing.....We're only allowed 10 posts per day here,so I know you can't reply back. So when you can reply again (tomorrow),make sure you use your posts sparingly from now on.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Igetit! makes a good point about setting a sexual frame.

"Sexual" in this case doesn't mean talking about sex; it refers to the male/ female dynamic that exists naturally. It is FAR better to get this out in the open early.

Examples:

"I can't believe you said that. I am going to have to hit on you all night now."
"Oh, you do ___? My mother warned me about girls like that."
"Shh...a man is talking" (playfully, when she interrupts you).

You can even act bolder ("We are so making out tonight"), but keep in mind that this will prompt s#it tests that you HAVE to pass. If you're not entirely confident, being to forward will backfire; otherwise, it is a GREAT way to escalate things fast.

The minute you start acting like a "friend" or sexual "equal" is when the chemistry disappears. This is why interview-like dates are so bad: She wants to be turned on...she's not looking to receive your biography. The minute a girl starts an interview-type thread, you should immediately tease her and ask her something that makes her qualify herself.

 

[DonJuan11]

I'm glad you asked - You are right. Any form of communication can be sexualized. I didn't really elaborate on it much since there wasn't much to elaborate on. When I think of sexualizing conversations I really associate it closely with kino. I'm just more comfortable that way - but that's sounds like I'm just making excuses now. It didn't seem like the right time and place to just start jumping into sexual-related chat, she didn't seem to be at that comfort level yet. I could have judged that incorrectly.

For example, to enter a more sexual convo & state, I started discussing this experience I had at a late-night crazy sexual hypnotist show where he was making the volunteers get all sexual with each other, it was a great lead in to other sexual topics, but overall it didn't lead to any sexual banter between the two of us. The story is hilarious, it got her laughing, but that's pretty much it. That key sexual banter was missing.

Bro this is a story reserved for a guys locker room after a hockey game, not for a girl you want to sleep with. Once you start telling a story like this, the attraction level goes down and the friend level goes way up.

How could I have increased/escalated it from there?

Delete the story and talk about HER. Her hair, her eyes, her looks, her future dreams, her goals, whatever. No girl ever came home from a date complaining they talked too much about themselves.

I felt a lack of connection because of her unmatched energy level.

All your fault. Her unmatched energy level was because you were boring and had nothing of value to offer her or get her excited. Imagine if you knew how to cook a world class dessert; or if you knew how to speak 4 languages, or if you told her you had your construction company; these are just examples, but they would definitely float her boat.

I wasn't all giddy and crazy and smiley. I was just "normal" and we had calm, average discussions. It's not like I was jumping off the walls and she was slouched in the corner. We were both engaging each other and talkative, it just felt off (The best way for me to describe this is that she admittedly didn't "understand me" - my outlook on life is: work for myself, run my business, invest, enjoy my hobbies, have fun - hers is... work 9-5 for a big corporation, have barely any hobbies, go out drinking with friends cause there's nothing else to do).

LOL. You got some communication issues if a girl doesn't understand you at the end of the date; as there is a difference between "mystery" and "confusion". And you told her you "barely have ANY hobbies, go out drinking with friends because there is NOTHING else to do?" That's supposed to turn her on and make her melt inside? Come on bro, use some sense.

A date is not an interview, its to build comfort and attraction with her, and for you to ADD to her life. She can go out with ANYONE who drinks with their friends, she can go out with ANYONE who has nothing else to do, but she CAN'T go out with ANYONE who plays guitar like Slash, who cooks awesome desserts, who is doctor, or who has a million dollars company and is well respected by the community, get the picture?

I was wondering to myself "If she accepted a date, she must be interested; therefore why is her energy level so low?" trying to figure this out was strange for me and I didn't quite get it.

Just because she accepted a date doesn't mean she's in love with and wants to have sex with you. She liked what she saw at the beginning, but then got turned off between the time she sat down and the time she got up. If you agree to see a open house your realtor has advised you to see, do you BUY it right there? Of course not, you see what it has to offer, mull about the options, come back for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th viewing. But if you don't like it, you don't go back for a 2nd viewing, you tell them thanks but no thanks.

It's like she was a lost puppy. She was confused. I think this goes back to her being fresh out of a relationship or whatever. I don't know.

She is not confused, she is not interested. You trying to rationalize HER behavior instead of figuring what you did wrong is a classic mistake.

I was thinking of kino when I decided the guitar hero thing. That's what lead me to offer it. It would've been a competitive, kinoesque, fun, playful activity and DEFINITELY not the only point of having her over. It was more of a hey come over for this, and then we'll see where it leads (lets grab coffee, etc.) Also, it seemed to fit well with her playing the guitar. One of her very few hobbies she has is playing the guitar. I thought it would be a good transition. I don't really know what else I would've asked her for a day 2? I thought long and hard about it. I was NOT going to do anything remotely date-ish. I thought of anything that could be as far away as a date as possible, which lead me to that decision. Was that stupid of me?

Are you suggesting I call her within a few days and attempt to jump into a highly sexual frame? Wouldn't she see it as an act of desperation? I would try this if you see a possibility of it getting me somewhere..

Re-read what Igetit said, he knows all.

 

[Progress]

You built all this comfort and connection and DHVs and neg and PUAMPUASEGUBSDFOIJ but wouldn't try a kiss and now you have blue balls.

Aside from the well-informed stuff IGetIt!'s giving you, there's an important point to take away:

Women are FAR more forgiving towards a man who escalates too much, as opposed to too little.

 

[Real Talk]

Women are FAR more forgiving towards a man who escalates too much, as opposed to too little.

This has to be understood in the context that it only applies once COMFORT/RAPPORT is established. Trying to escalate without her being comfortable with you (or at least inebriated or something) often will come off as desperate and/or the famous term girls like to use: "creepy".

 

[ecko280]

You built all this comfort and connection and DHVs and neg and PUAMPUASEGUBSDFOIJ but wouldn't try a kiss and now you have blue balls.

Aside from the well-informed stuff IGetIt!'s giving you, there's an important point to take away:

Women are FAR more forgiving towards a man who escalates too much, as opposed to too little.

^^agree thats why he should of kiss close. She came up running and hugging the guy. what more comfort do you want?? He did not make a move like all the other afc she has meant. She wants a man with balls to go for the kiss and lead.

 

[rocket87]

LONGEST POST EVAR :woo:

Don't worry about it. The reason why most guys are not successful is they never get out of their comfort zone. They just "want to be themselves" they "don't want to grab a drink because they hate alcohol, they don't like dancing, etc. You have to get out of your comfort zone. These are things you do for HER INTEREST. NO ONE GIVES A FUVK ABOUT YOUR INTEREST LEVEL. You are a man. You fall easy for women (Like 99 percent of men) but women take TIME to feel comfortable and to fall for men. You have to go slow and EXPECT NOTHING. Play it cool. No sweat off your balls, if nothing happens, at least you were seen having a drink with an HB10. But, if you want to just get laid, never see them again, then disregard my advice. If you want them to swoon for you, do what I say. YOU SHOULD STRIVE TO BE THE GUY SHE WAS THINKING ABOUT ON YOUR DATE. And she was thinking about him. I guarantee it.

A quick **** was the last thing on my mind - She seems like LTR material, so that was the frame I went for. I know that girls are different and also, obviously, have different sexual cues.

I agree with needing to do/say/engage things strictly for her interest. I think I set my expectations too high based on pased experiences with women, where as I actually should've planned this out a bit more before jumping into it. I appreciate you being frank with me about the whole situation - I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I'll definitely take your advice for the future.


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I simply mean sexual innuendo. It's simple.....

I think I made it too complicated (in my head). I was probably trying to think too deep into it at the time and it didn't get me "far enough." If I get another chance with her, I'll quickly get into a light sexual state; while ramping it up quickly from there. I have some ideas for later this week before I'm out of town.

The date is THE PERFECT time and place for sexual talk/chat.

Honestly don't have a good answer for you here. It was the perfect time and I farked it up. If anything, I've now at least identified one of the major reasons why it failed and now I can target that in the future.

2:You didn't make it PERSONAL,pertaining to you and her.

I think this is the biggest factor, out of everything we've discussed. Like I said before, there WAS sexual chat, there WERE sexual innuendos. They just didn't form a sexual connection between the two of us. Again, if I get another shot, I'll *for sure* solidify that connection.

I highly doubt it was "normal,calm,or average".

You're right - It wasn't. I was alpha as all hell and she liked it. She loved it, she wanted to see more. I gave her that glimpse into my life and she was curious.

It was just premature.

Totally. I get it. Wish I had thought about that before I fired off the invite. Fark.

I DO NOT THINK you are in the "friend" zone......YET.
If you go along with her "be friends" suggestion,then you WILL BE.

Does this mean I should avoid playful banter at her mentioning she'll be my "friend?" Maybe avoid the entire word all together, and pretend she never said it at all? That sounds like the best plan to me, would you agree?

2:If there is further contact,flirt,tease,use sexual innuendo. You'll have to ease into,otherwise you'll look weird,but you DO have to start.

All this talk about the situation has inspired me to at least give it one more shot. I think I have a good chance at it. Plus, like I said, I see her all the time, so the odds are in my favor in terms of giving it another go sooner rather than later. There will definitely be an update sometime this week with what happens. Whether or not it's another epic fail lolz. Obviously, if she makes it clear she isn't interested, I'll back off.

We're only allowed 10 posts per day here

Haha yeah found that out last night. I'll cram more into single posts


Any other suggestions would be phenomenal. Your help and comments so far have been seriously priceless and really helped me internalize all this.


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he minute you start acting like a "friend" or sexual "equal" is when the chemistry disappears. This is why interview-like dates are so bad: She wants to be turned on...she's not looking to receive your biography. The minute a girl starts an interview-type thread, you should immediately tease her and ask her something that makes her qualify herself.

Noted. I'll have to keep this in mind if I chalk up another outing with her. The second she starts talking about any friendly type ****, or treating me like one, I'll give her **** for it (Suggestions here on what to say/what to look for?). I truly did everything I could to avoid it becoming an interview - and I think that worked in my favor. That wasn't my problem, it was the lack of sexual connection.


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Bro this is a story reserved for a guys locker room after a hockey game, not for a girl you want to sleep with.

Can you tell me why?

Delete the story and talk about HER.

I did. I fished deep for deep topics. What she aspires to do. Life values. Goals. Etc.

you told her you "barely have ANY hobbies, go out drinking with friends because there is NOTHING else to do?" That's supposed to turn her on and make her melt inside? Come on bro, use some sense.

No man, no. Hell no. Lol. Read that over again up there - She told me this.

A date is not an interview

None of the date was interview-ish. The conversation was dynamic and interesting, not too much and not too little - When I referenced to "calm, average" discussion, I'm talking about being over-eager. It wasn't like I was doing a stand-up routine in front of her. But regardless, none of the date went like an interview. We didn't ask each other stupid questions about family/work/etc. It was a dynamic interaction.

but she CAN'T go out with ANYONE who plays guitar like Slash, who cooks awesome desserts, who is doctor, or who has a million dollars company and is well respected by the community, get the picture?

No. I don't really get the picture/understand what you're saying. I run a successful IT startup valued at more than what you mentioned. I'm working on two other startups. Can you explain this more? I displayed massive value to her. She knows about my awesome life and all the awesome **** I'm up to. She seemed intrigued by it.

She is not confused, she is not interested. You trying to rationalize HER behavior instead of figuring what you did wrong is a classic mistake.

I'm not trying to rationalize her behavior at all. That's why I'm posting here. I'm trying to analyze the situation so that I can better myself in the future.


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now you have blue balls.

will come off as desperate

She wants a man with balls to go for the kiss and lead.

^ Again, It wasn't time to full-on kiss her, I didn't have enough attraction built. I know when it's time to kiss a woman. Yeah, it WAS my fault that it wasn't time, but regardless, it would've taken a way stronger sexual connection before that time comes. If anything, I should blame my choice of venue and lack of sexual connection, not my choice not to kiss her.

I kept the "leading" frame throughout the whole date. At no point was she in control. I decided when to leave, where to sit, where to take her, etc. It wasn't about balls, nor kissing. And I did kiss her on the cheek as a step up for kino escalation. You have to make a judgment call when you're about to go in for the kill; but I'm not going to make excuses for something I actively chose to (not) do. If this were some sort of club scene/situation it would've been different but that's not what it was..

 

[Progress]

I quote:

I think this is the biggest factor, out of everything we've discussed. Like I said before, there WAS sexual chat, there WERE sexual innuendos. They just didn't form a sexual connection between the two of us. Again, if I get another shot, I'll *for sure* solidify that connection.

Was there eye-****ing?
Was there touching, wrist holding, pushing into her world to bring her into yours, complimenting the feelings of someone that ran and embraced you for the beginning of a first date?
And if there was, why no kiss?

You seem massively focused on descriptions like 'kino escalation' for a disappointing end of date kiss on cheek, so I'll assume you're still finding your feet with the aid of structured game - not a bad thing, but focus on finding you, your identity, and then go for the type of girls that are always attracted to that!

But if you truly lead for the entirely of a date - she went on one with you, so attraction is assumed at the beginning (go back to your description of the gym interaction, sounds solid enough) - then YOU will be the giver of the end of date kiss, not her. Leading doesn't just mean where to sit etc, it's leading her to you, exempting her from having to make the move - it's just not feminine if she has to. Your sexual state realisation is great, but it shouldn't be decision to make yourself sexual, it should be YOU when you're with a girl.

Dinner dates suck serious ass for people you haven't ****ed yet, but that's been said - no further insight here! What you also didn't do, is think through logistics - a bar nearer your place after the meal, for example (next time make sure it's that, without the meal!)


EDIT: Qualify sexually as well

'You realise you just let yourself in for trouble'
'I'm filthy, if you stay on your head be it!'

Find a way to get that meaning across with YOUR words, they're mine and might not fit with you!
If she stay's/giggles/looks shy/doesn't call the police, she's up for it. But you already knew that and forgot she's a woman and wants to be ****ed.