Encouraged to be a nice guy, whats with that?

[SecondHalf]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the thread title.

As a recovering chump for most of my adult life, I'm perplexed as to why women encourage men to behave in the way that they instinctively despise.

My one functional FB(ish), recently said "you are soooo nice".
I laughed and said "that's always been my problem, working on it".
I was surprised at her reaction of "Please don't ever change, it's such a great quality".

The last relationship I had that crashed and burned in two months, was similar. She so adored being around a considerate male, and complemented me on it constantly and thought she felt true love.
Then, predictably, she ended up being repulsed by it and poof, it was over.

On a positive note, that last breakup might have provided just enough emotional scar tissue to prevent me from ever being a "push over" again or even more important, completely trusting a woman's words.

I'm hoping that the aura of indifference might suffice to move me from the "nice guy" category to the "good guy" category (DJism will take some time).

I was hoping some of you posters could reflect on this.

Thanks,

SH.

 

[sodbuster]

They don't want you to change so there is a ready made chump she can talk into marriage after all her other options fall through. You'll be easily controlled,manipulated,etc. into it. My dental staff has several GOOD LOOKING women on it,but who do they try to set me up with? fat friends of theirs. Why? they don't think it will end up in marriage... so the woman whose husband had kidney cancer-has options,the woman who wants another kid[used to work for me,told me if her husband won't...she'll find someone who will]-has a "fall back"-divorced guy making 6 figures.

It's not in their best interests for you to have your best interests in mind.

 

[5string]

"aura of indifference" will raise their interest in you.

That's your answer right there.

 

[SecondHalf]

They don't want you to change so there is a ready made chump she can talk into marriage after all her other options fall through. You'll be easily controlled,manipulated,etc. into it. My dental staff has several GOOD LOOKING women on it,but who do they try to set me up with? fat friends of theirs. Why? they don't think it will end up in marriage... so the woman whose husband had kidney cancer-has options,the woman who wants another kid[used to work for me,told me if her husband won't...she'll find someone who will]-has a "fall back"-divorced guy making 6 figures.

It's not in their best interests for you to have your best interests in mind.

Do you really think it's so calculated, or their "game" on a subconscious level all wrapped in histrionic denial etc?
Pretty awful really.
If I ever come to accept this, that "aura" of indifference will not be an "aura" at all but a permanent barrier.

"aura of indifference" will raise their interest in you.
That's your answer right there.

I'm hoping this will be enough. I don't want to change my character completely, merely apply some hard boundaries (amongst all the obvious self improvement things).

SH

 

[Lexington]

Listening to women's advise on how to attract them is completely and utterly useless. At the end of the day, women are not logical creatures. They are governed by emotions. Logically, it would make sense that they'd like a nice guy. But the truth is, they are not attracted to that sweet, sensitive guy they always talk about as much as they are to the alpha male. The feelings that the archetypal alpha male gives them are what attracts them.

One major difference between the male and female brain is the size of their corpus callosum....it's a lot bigger than ours. The corpus callosum is what connects the two brain hemispheres. Men can separate the logical and emotional sides of their brain quite easily (in truth the hemispheres are lot more complex than that...but that is part of the difference between them). Women have a much harder time doing this.

It may seem like women are lying, but there are some major physiological differences and thus their brains operate according to a subtly different set of dynamics which makes a major difference. This is why men often find women's actions so confusing and vice versa.

 

[Colossus]

What women say they like and what they actually respond to are often two different things entirely.

The classic nice guy/jerk dichotomy just illustrates what women respond to on a sexual level, not necessarily what is best for them in the long run.

Truth is, any woman in her right mind wants a man who is kind and gentle to her and treats her well. What repels them is when a man has no spine; when all his actions center around pleasing HER and not himself or his goals. If they feel TOO secure and find you too predicable it is going to foster boredom and they will seek emotional stimulation elsewhere. Conversely, if they feel NO stability or security with their man, they will leave for emotional self-preservation. There has to be a middle ground.

If you listen to A LOT of women, a common theme is that they want a "bad boy with a heart of gold". In other words, a bit of edginess and testosterone-driven decision making, with a bit of vulnerability and softness towards them.

This is just my opinion, but after years of untangling the whole mess of attraction this is what I've distilled.

 

[sodbuster]

Yes, I think they are THAT calculating. It may not all be conscious thought,but it is there. IF you've ever heard of putting tobasco sauce in your used condoms...so they won't steal them from the trash and insert to get themselves pregnant....how 2 of his[ tom leykis] listeners did and caught their girlfriends screaming in pain. When I told my staff...one said "I'd just poke holes in it" as if that's any different

I was the sperm donor for my ex-wife.....she wanted a brother for her daughter. When I wanted my second child[she KNEW I wanted 2],it took marriage counseling and the ultimatum. "I'm having 2 kids...can be with you...or someone else" before she lived up to the deal we had. Later I found out that she thought she would be able to talk me out of having the second child [BEFORE we married]

 

[Burroughs]

It's not in their best interests for you to have your best interests in mind.

put this on a t-shirt my man!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Why women give bad dating advice.

The problem is most guys simply parrot the words women have told them over the years when they asked them "What do women want in a guy?" and then think it works since they got it straight from the horse's mouth. Unfortunately, too many guys, especially recently, have bought the same line women have been repeating for ages thinking it's a way to put themselves at an advantage when all it does is disqualify not only them, but the poor suckers who hear 'chick advice' from another guy, repeat it, and the cycle continues.

The 'chick advice' phenomenon is a socio-evolutionary fail-safe mechanism meant to filter women's selection process of less desirable men from more desirable (i.e. competition worthy) men. Think about this for a moment - women almost uniquely own "relationship advice" in the media. There are a few notable feminized male exceptions (i.e. the Dr. Phils), but the ones who don't align their opinions along a feminine-first priority are tagged as misogynists and marginalized or ridiculed.

On some level of consciousness women know they're full of shît when they offer up the 'standard' chick advice. And they know they're being less than genuine when they see this advice consistently contradicted by their own behaviors. Women (and now men) repeat in article after article how well developed the female capacity is for communication, so it follows that they have to know to some, maybe subconscious, degree that they are being less than helpful if not deliberately misleading. Even the mothers with the best interests of their son's at stake still parrot these responses. It's a female imperative. Why?

For the answer, all you have to do is look at the bios of single women on any online dating service. When asked to describe the characteristics they find desirable in a man, the single most common responses are confidence, decisiveness, independence, humor, etc. Traits that would require a man to be a Man and have the exceptional foresight and perseverance not to take things at face value. The guy with the capacity to call a woman on her own bluff with a confidence that implies she is to be worthy of him rather than the other way around is the Man to be competed for. Essentially the 'chick speak', 'chick advice' phenomenon is a shît test writ large on a social scale. And even your own mother and sisters are in on it, expecting you to be clever enough to get the message and see the challenge for what it really is, without overtly telling you.

Most guys are natural pragmatists, we look for the shortest most efficient way between two points. The deductive reasoning that follows is that if we want sex, and women have the sex we want, we ought to ask them what conditions they require from us in order for us to get it. The problem is that women don't want to tell us this, because in doing so it makes us less independent and and more compromising (and lazy) in our own identities in order to get at her sexuality. This is counter to the decisive, independent and masculine man they really want and is evidenced in their behaviors. A competition worthy Man should know what women want without asking because he's observed them often enough, been successful with them often enough, and taken the efforts to make decisions for himself based on their behaviors, not her words - especially in the face of a world full of women's conflicting words. This makes him the commodity in the face of a constant contradiction of her own and other women's motives, words and behaviors.

She want's you to get it on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative, that going against the common group-think, and the experience that accompanies it makes you a Man worth competing for.

 

[Zunder]

Listening to women's advise on how to attract them is completely and utterly useless. At the end of the day, women are not logical creatures. They are governed by emotions. Logically, it would make sense that they'd like a nice guy. But the truth is, they are not attracted to that sweet, sensitive guy they always talk about as much as they are to the alpha male. The feelings that the archetypal alpha male gives them are what attracts them.

One major difference between the male and female brain is the size of their corpus callosum....it's a lot bigger than ours. The corpus callosum is what connects the two brain hemispheres. Men can separate the logical and emotional sides of their brain quite easily (in truth the hemispheres are lot more complex than that...but that is part of the difference between them). Women have a much harder time doing this.

It may seem like women are lying, but there are some major physiological differences and thus their brains operate according to a subtly different set of dynamics which makes a major difference. This is why men often find women's actions so confusing and vice versa.

So what you are saying really is that womens brains are fuvcked up. LOL I knew that already.

 

[Zunder]

What women say they like and what they actually respond to are often two different things entirely.

The classic nice guy/jerk dichotomy just illustrates what women respond to on a sexual level, not necessarily what is best for them in the long run.

Truth is, any woman in her right mind wants a man who is kind and gentle to her and treats her well. What repels them is when a man has no spine; when all his actions center around pleasing HER and not himself or his goals. If they feel TOO secure and find you too predicable it is going to foster boredom and they will seek emotional stimulation elsewhere. Conversely, if they feel NO stability or security with their man, they will leave for emotional self-preservation. There has to be a middle ground.

If you listen to A LOT of women, a common theme is that they want a "bad boy with a heart of gold". In other words, a bit of edginess and testosterone-driven decision making, with a bit of vulnerability and softness towards them.

This is just my opinion, but after years of untangling the whole mess of attraction this is what I've distilled.

This is prob why F1 drivers, fugly dudes or not, always seem to have a hot missus.....I guess it helps they are relatively famous too...

 

[f283000]

She want's you to get it on your own, without having to be told how.

Short and simple. I once asked a friend to hook my friend up with some of her girlfriends. Nice guy, professional, making good money, not bad looking. She looked at me like if I had done some horrible thing! So i'm doing something wrong for wanting to see my friend happy??

That taught me to never ask a woman to help with relationship matters. You can ask a woman for help with anything else just not something as "sensitive" to them as this.

For a woman to reveal the secrets of what makes their vag tingle that would put her + all womanhood at a disadvantage. So in a way they are trying to protect their power structure. Even though she might not consciously think "I can't give him good advice to get good with women i can't let men get more power," on a subconscious level they are trying to protect the status quo.

Not only that but I truly think like Rollo said that they want you "to get it" on your own. That is the reason why she didn't want to help my friend.

I'm sure if my friend had been this super popular guy she might have heard off then maybe she wouldn't have objected. But to her I bet he sounded like a nice guy and to her she would never help a guy like that. Go figure!

 

[Firefly]

Actually, I have found some female friends to give quite good advice on dating. I recently had a big hit on my confidence levels, and went to one female friend for advice. She is a 8.5, and works as a dancer as well as the manager of one of my city's biggest clubs so is pretty clued up on what is attractive, cool etc.

Her advice was simple:

1. Lose some weight around the middle.
2. Stop joking around so much. Her actual quote was "you may get a quick laugh from girls, but they won't want to f**k you".

She previously told me and another male friend that we should stop trying to look after women, as that wasn't "sexy".

Both bits of advice were actually honest and helpful. I think the reason why she was willing to be honest was:

a. She is hot, so she already has a million orbiters already
b. She knows I have no interest in her, and won her respect a few times by calling her on the times she was acting like a brat.

So I think women can give useful honest advice about dating if there is genuinely no interest on either side, and the woman either does not see you as a potential orbiter or already has enough orbiters.

 

[Jitterbug]

If your being nice benefits her, she has no incentive to tell you to stop.

 

[typical]

If your being nice benefits her, she has no incentive to tell you to stop.

Said in a nutshell good line I'll remember this.

 

[Zunder]

2. Stop joking around so much. Her actual quote was "you may get a quick laugh from girls, but they won't want to f**k you".

Do you really believe that mate? Really?

 

[Firefly]

Well, her advice worked so far. Far as I could tell, the odd joke works wonders but I was constantly joking around chicks (probably due to nervousness) which in retrospect made them take me less seriously. Of course, dropping a few pounds didn't seem to hurt either.

 

[zekko]

I'm sure if my friend had been this super popular guy she might have heard off then maybe she wouldn't have objected. But to her I bet he sounded like a nice guy and to her she would never help a guy like that. Go figure!

The problem isn't that he's nice, it's that when a guy needs to be "fixed up" like that it makes him look like a simpering wimp who doesn't have the balls to go out and get his own women. It also makes him look like he has no options, and we know how attractive that is.

Also, when a guy needs fixed up, the first thing a girl thinks is "what's wrong with him that he can't find a girlfriend?".

 

[SecondHalf]

There has been a lot of really good answers here.
I've certainly walked into some of these scenarios.

Going forward, I won't fall for this.

SH