Since I am (and always have been) a pretty lean fellow, my goal is to develop body builder muscle mass. As much as I hate to it, one can't of course avoid cardio. I'd like to know what you guys think about which burns muscle less than the other-the Elliptical or the Stationary bike? The elliptical is known to burn very many calories and I personally don't have much of any fat in me. When I get on the elliptical (now once every other week) I now try to burn no less than 60 calories...then I stop right there. The problem with the stationary bike is that I've never really felt my heart rate pump up as high as when I use the elliptical, so I wonder many times if the stationary bike does enough for one's heart rate.
Elliptical vs. Stationary Bike: Which One Burns Muscle Less?
- Thread starter Frank2500
- Start date
elleptical: you're standing (unless you use the 'tard elleptical), your arms are moving.
bike: neither. however there is more resistance to your movement. depends on how your bike is set up... most times, the elleptical burns more for the same level of perceived 'effort'
on another note: if you want to build muscle mass and you're a 'pretty lean fellow' i.e. a 150lb-er who does not squat your own bodyweight, don't do 'cardio'. just walk a lot (say 3-5km a day to start) if you really want to trim the energy surplus, and do occasional sets of sprints say 2x a week. othewise .. arg fukk it just read up on some reputable sources and see what works for you
bike: neither. however there is more resistance to your movement. depends on how your bike is set up... most times, the elleptical burns more for the same level of perceived 'effort'
on another note: if you want to build muscle mass and you're a 'pretty lean fellow' i.e. a 150lb-er who does not squat your own bodyweight, don't do 'cardio'. just walk a lot (say 3-5km a day to start) if you really want to trim the energy surplus, and do occasional sets of sprints say 2x a week. othewise .. arg fukk it just read up on some reputable sources and see what works for you
KontrollerX
Master Don Juan
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Do a google search on high intensity interval training. You can use it for running or stationary biking or regular biking and if it doesn't get your heart rate up then nothing will.
I'm a lean fellow just like you. I don't do any cardio at all EXCEPT during summer. In summer, I go out and do stuff like play tennis, ride bikes through back roads, and hunt killer whales (okay maybe not the last part). The point is, I do cardio when I'm outdoors in summer time.
I have only been doing this for couple of years so I'm not sure how effective it is long term. My resting heart rate is pretty average with a pretty average resting blood pressure. I plan on picking up martial arts this summer so that might help with cardiovascular fitness.
From my experience, and you don't have to follow this, I haven't needed cardio as bad as I've needed resistance training. If others here think I'm wrong, please by all means, point us in the right direction. Being righted is always better than staying wronged.
I have only been doing this for couple of years so I'm not sure how effective it is long term. My resting heart rate is pretty average with a pretty average resting blood pressure. I plan on picking up martial arts this summer so that might help with cardiovascular fitness.
From my experience, and you don't have to follow this, I haven't needed cardio as bad as I've needed resistance training. If others here think I'm wrong, please by all means, point us in the right direction. Being righted is always better than staying wronged.
Re:
I appreciate your feedback, folks. I'm actually 175-180lbs right now. I seem to have one of those body types that builds muscle really fast from consistent weight lifting, but then once I jump on the elliptical I start burning calories so fast and seem to lose muscle to the point where I have to catch up on my protein intake and almost basically start all over again as far as weight lifting goes, in order to regain some of the muscle mass that I've lost. It's a double edged sword. And without doing cardio, it's quite a loss as well. I don't know if weight lifting alone is good enough for a person's heart. It's funny...all the body builder/wrestler kinds of guys who I know always warn me to stay away from cardio when I ask them how much of it they do. They always make me laugh out loud. At the very least, they always tell me to keep cardio at the minimal.
I appreciate your feedback, folks. I'm actually 175-180lbs right now. I seem to have one of those body types that builds muscle really fast from consistent weight lifting, but then once I jump on the elliptical I start burning calories so fast and seem to lose muscle to the point where I have to catch up on my protein intake and almost basically start all over again as far as weight lifting goes, in order to regain some of the muscle mass that I've lost. It's a double edged sword. And without doing cardio, it's quite a loss as well. I don't know if weight lifting alone is good enough for a person's heart. It's funny...all the body builder/wrestler kinds of guys who I know always warn me to stay away from cardio when I ask them how much of it they do. They always make me laugh out loud. At the very least, they always tell me to keep cardio at the minimal.
First off, you wont be burning calories like crazy, unless you eat nothing before you are working out, and are EXTREMELY lean. If you do it correctly, you can burn the calories you consumed from fat or carbs depending on duration of your exercise.
It might be a shock to you, but you burn about close to the 60 calories you mentioned in the form of (TEF) Thermic Effect of Food. If you ate a 600cal meal, 10% would be burned to chewing and digesting, etc. That's 60 calories.
So first off, you dont need to STOP the cardio. In fact you need to be doing the cardio. People think that when they get on machines and start burning calories, it is all in the form of fat, and this is WRONG. You dont start burning fat until a long time.
And if you are burning MUSCLE....you have SERIOUS problems with your diet, or you are 0% bodyfat (exaggerating)
My suggestion, is that you EAT MORE. You dont list a diet in here for us to look at, but my guess is that you dont eat enough.
There is no way you will burn muscle on the elliptical or at cardio period unless you are starving yourself to death.
And the kids that warn you to stay away from cardio are the one YOU SHOULD NOT BE LISTENING TOO. They dont know their stuff.
If you only do 15-20min or so 3x per week or something, there is nothing wrong with that. Just dont be doing 3hrs a day or something silly. Then you are going to have to eat even more. But there is NO REASON you cant get the extra calories in you burn in about 20min of cardio.
It might be a shock to you, but you burn about close to the 60 calories you mentioned in the form of (TEF) Thermic Effect of Food. If you ate a 600cal meal, 10% would be burned to chewing and digesting, etc. That's 60 calories.
So first off, you dont need to STOP the cardio. In fact you need to be doing the cardio. People think that when they get on machines and start burning calories, it is all in the form of fat, and this is WRONG. You dont start burning fat until a long time.
And if you are burning MUSCLE....you have SERIOUS problems with your diet, or you are 0% bodyfat (exaggerating)
My suggestion, is that you EAT MORE. You dont list a diet in here for us to look at, but my guess is that you dont eat enough.
There is no way you will burn muscle on the elliptical or at cardio period unless you are starving yourself to death.
And the kids that warn you to stay away from cardio are the one YOU SHOULD NOT BE LISTENING TOO. They dont know their stuff.
If you only do 15-20min or so 3x per week or something, there is nothing wrong with that. Just dont be doing 3hrs a day or something silly. Then you are going to have to eat even more. But there is NO REASON you cant get the extra calories in you burn in about 20min of cardio.
(sigh) by way of exposition peruse and digest this rather conclusive set of studies half wit. don't listen 'too' me. "burn fat not muscle LOL"Omen said:
-edit: which is to say, if he's lean and trying to gain muscle by eating big and lifting hard, interval training and walking will keep the fat off and keep your metabolism high all day whereas running on a machine like a tool will make you weak, skinny-fat, and have no muscle mass. like a certain keyboard jockey.
High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)
trust me
tabata protocol
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_5_20/ai_n6011850
trust me
tabata protocol
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_5_20/ai_n6011850
Oh, I TOTALLY forgot that glycogen stores were depleted in 20min. Guess I didnt know what I was talking about. :yawn:mintxx said:
I suggest getting your facts straight before you say that they are depleted in 20min.
And lets not forget Lactate as fuel as well.
you told this guy that if he is lean or has not eaten he will burn fewer calories in exercise. however calories are a unit of energy and thus purely dependant on what exercise he does, regardless of body composition or anything else.
next you said that if he does it correctly he can burn fat and carb -sourced calories depending on duration of exercise.
however calories are stored after being metabolised from digesting nutritional sources which may be protein fat or carbohydrates. nobody really knows how to work out where a calorie has been 'consumed from'. perhaps you meant that if he does it correctly he can utilise fat storage at a higher percentage and glycogen storage at a much lower one (this switch occurs at around 20 minutes of 70% VO2 max activity)
you went on to say that one does 'not start burning fat until a long time'. i would suggest 20 minutes.
you added that only people with serious problems or 0% bodyfat will burn muscle. however catabolic processes will utilise muscle cells after 30 minutes without fuel intake. catabolism will use energy from all sources and it will prefer the sources that require the least energy expenditure to convert but a caloric deficit will trigger catabolism of muscle, end of story. so what do you reckon happens when a person with no fat does cardio?
15-20 minutes of cardio three times a week is useless for someone who's skinny. that person should walk for half an hour every day. the human body evolved to walk long distances and sprint short ones. when he has some basic heart strenth and some general mass on him then he can do some interval training, which will, as i quoted above, burn fat and not the muscle, by elevating his metabolism. the walking can then turn into jogging with the appropriate nutritional intake.
my other degree is in biomedical science from monash university, so please don't tell me i don't have my facts straight.
next you said that if he does it correctly he can burn fat and carb -sourced calories depending on duration of exercise.
however calories are stored after being metabolised from digesting nutritional sources which may be protein fat or carbohydrates. nobody really knows how to work out where a calorie has been 'consumed from'. perhaps you meant that if he does it correctly he can utilise fat storage at a higher percentage and glycogen storage at a much lower one (this switch occurs at around 20 minutes of 70% VO2 max activity)
you went on to say that one does 'not start burning fat until a long time'. i would suggest 20 minutes.
you added that only people with serious problems or 0% bodyfat will burn muscle. however catabolic processes will utilise muscle cells after 30 minutes without fuel intake. catabolism will use energy from all sources and it will prefer the sources that require the least energy expenditure to convert but a caloric deficit will trigger catabolism of muscle, end of story. so what do you reckon happens when a person with no fat does cardio?
15-20 minutes of cardio three times a week is useless for someone who's skinny. that person should walk for half an hour every day. the human body evolved to walk long distances and sprint short ones. when he has some basic heart strenth and some general mass on him then he can do some interval training, which will, as i quoted above, burn fat and not the muscle, by elevating his metabolism. the walking can then turn into jogging with the appropriate nutritional intake.
my other degree is in biomedical science from monash university, so please don't tell me i don't have my facts straight.
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I train my lactate threshold (LT) when I ride my bike up hills by A)Putting it in the biggest chainring and pedaling the whole hill in a difficult gearing and B) Stand-up and sprint uphill 90 seconds, then 30 seconds sitting down in the same gear, if you're still climbing after that, u can downshift and climb normally.
That can be replicated on a Stationary and even a trainer. Without a bike or an eliptical, I like tabata stuff (intervals).
That can be replicated on a Stationary and even a trainer. Without a bike or an eliptical, I like tabata stuff (intervals).