Ego and the Ladder Theory!

[MR_PERFECT]

I posted a problem I was having a few days ago. I realized that I didn't know how to correctly phrase the problem.

I was reading about the Ladder Theory and how you're on one of the rungs of either the Friend Ladder or the Real Ladder. Here's my situation/question in a nutshell: You're at the top of her Real Ladder, but it took you longer than you would have liked. You dismiss that little wrinkle because you ascended to where you wanted to be. You're happy. Then, you find out that a guy before you ascended much, much faster, just not to the very top. Now, you are told for a fact that under no circumstances would you have been able to ascend any faster than you did, meaning not as fast as the other guy.

If this is a girl you genuinely like, would this present a problem for you?

 

[ketostix]

Well it would be a red flag! j/k. I guess if you meant some other guys slept with her faster, and you're truely at the top of her ladder it wouldn't matter. Because it's not unheard of for a woman to go fast and end fast with one guy. Then another guy comes a long and she takes it slower but it has more meaning. This all assume that you really are at the top.

 

[Incremental]

Would it be a problem? yes, but that's because it's harder to practice what you preach. In essence what she did with someone else however fast doesn't mean crap when she's with you. In practice it can be difficult not to think of who taught her that thing she does that you like

You have to be able to distance yourself from the idea as soon as you feel it bothering you. A mental snort, whatever, or so what can be very good transitions from uncomfortable to don't give a fvck.
As for the 'under no circumstances' thing, it's total BS. Always gotta factor in luck, which trumps all.

 

[joekerr31]

rule #1: do NOT go digging into a girls past.

i dont want to know if a woman has slept with 1 guy or 100 guys to be honest. the only thing i care about is who is she today. if she's what im looking for, then whatever she went through in the past made her who she is and that's ok with me.

the last thing i want to know is that her ex was some 6'5 black guy with a 12 inch d*ck who banged her 10 times a day.

im a pretty confident person, but that kind of imagery will f*ck with your head.

once that can of worms gets opened its hard to close it.

anwyay, that having been said, if you like this girl and she's treating you right, you gotta forget about her past. if her past was that great she wouldn't be available now would she? so if she's a great girl be happy that you're the one whose got her.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yes.

That would present a big problem for me for THREE reasons:

1. How the hell did the subject even "come up" that some other guy was more initially desireable to her than "I" was in the first place??? To me it smells like the woman has positioned herself as "The Prize" and has framed me in the position of "The Chump".

Translation:

The guy that the woman wants damm sure to KNOW that he's LUCKY to even have her. I’d have a problem with any woman who implies in any way that she might have been doing me a “favor” by getting with me.

2. Some call it EGO, but I prefer to call it "protecting my heart". I would have a serious problem with discovering that a woman I wanted DIDN'T really want me as AT LEAST as bad as I wanted her. I know that many preach that it's all about raising Interest Levels, but I say "FUKK THAT". To a certain extent, I WILL work to raise a woman's interest in me, but ONLY if I see enough there to make the endeavor worth my while from the FIRST interactions.

There is something about that initial chemical rush that reassures me that this woman is INDEED sexually attracted to me too. I have had women before who have "grown" to be sexually interested in me, and I have had women who have been interested in me sexually IMMEDIATELY-----Not that we HAD sex instantly, but the chemistry was SO thick you could feel it.

The women who I vibed with instantly ALWAYS were more satisfying sexually (if not in OTHER areas ultimately). One reason why I advocate a STRONG sexual attraction right out the gate is because I believe this is your BEST defense against her being tempted to go elsewhere in order to get her 'itch" scratched.

And...

3. I would question ANY woman's interest level in me who could OR WOULD tell me that she was in presumably “total control” of how far or how fast she “got into me”. To me that says she’s either one of those RARE women who have great emotional control, OR, she’s a chick who’s with me for rational reasons ONLY, as opposed to more holistic ones. Either way, this would be a woman who would inspire me to walk around watching her interest level more closely than I normally would the average woman. And THAT’S more emotional energy than I think is wise for me to be expending on a daily basis.


March on.

 

[MR_PERFECT]

I have to say that all you guys gave excellent responses, thank you. Victory summed up exactly how I feel, even down to her eventually cheating because the interest wasn't initially there.

I've never been in this situation in my life and had no idea how to proceed.

 

[joekerr31]

I have to say that all you guys gave excellent responses, thank you. Victory summed up exactly how I feel, even down to her eventually cheating because the interest wasn't initially there.

I've never been in this situation in my life and had no idea how to proceed.

the best advice youll ever get in these scenarios on how to proceed is to SPIN PLATES.

never make one woman the focus of your life until she proves herself worthy to be.

the only mistake you might be making is putting way more importance on this relationship than you should at this stage. usually when you do that women will mind f*ck you right proper.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Mr. Perfect,


PROTECT YOUR HEART!

At ALL costs. And by any means necessary.

I understand that YOURS is not a mission of "revenge" against this woman for having "slighted" you in the past, but also, don't make this a "rescue" mission either. Women who HAD their chance initially, I ALWAYS make campaign LONGER and HARDER for my exclusive attention.

As it SHOULD be.

So if you MUST "entertain" engaging this woman, I would suggest that you be engaging SEVERAL others. I'm finding that life is too damm SHORT to spend inordinant amounts of time sweating women with LOW, STAGNANT, or FALLING interest level.

You, me, and everybody on here deserves a woman who AT LEAST has a "gung ho" attitude about being with us. So if it turns out to be THIS chick, then cool. But make her WORK for it, soldier. Don't give your heart (OR your exclusivity) away like it's cotton candy-----instead treat it like it's the most important, rare, and valuable possession you have.

Because to YOU...it is.


Peace...one day.

 

[MR_PERFECT]

the best advice youll ever get in these scenarios on how to proceed is to SPIN PLATES.

never make one woman the focus of your life until she proves herself worthy to be.

the only mistake you might be making is putting way more importance on this relationship than you should at this stage. usually when you do that women will mind f*ck you right proper.

This is my second time around with this girl. I dated her 3-years-ago for 3 months and had plates spinning at the time, which is the reason why I didn't care that she wasn't doing anything with me right away. When she came back around - a random phone call after 3 years - she said that things progressed slowly because she was inexperienced. I had no interest or expectations, but I did meet up. Things went great this time, I mean great. The questions all started when I went out drinking with her one night and wanted to know what she's been up to sexually, just curious. Now the guy in question, if he came after me, I would have had no problems with whatever I heard, but he came before me, which means she wasn't so innocent, she was uninterested until I grew on her.

After the conversation, I realized that if I bail, it has to be now because I'm at the point where I'm starting to like her and it will matter. I don't want my decision to be childish, that's why I'm giving it some thought.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

As I'm so fond of saying, the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy she met half an hour earlier in the foam cannon party on spring break in Cancun for Girls Gone Wild is the same girl who'll tell you she's "just not comfortable enough" to have sex with you while you're spooning with her trying to think of new ways to "increase the trust". Every woman can be a slut, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in her. You're not the right guy to do so with this girl.

I'll give Dallas credit for Ladder Theory, I actually discovered SoSuave through the Intellectual Whoares website. He describes the symptoms of the problem very well, if not a bit raw in his delivery, but he misses the disease. Women do in fact have rankings of guys in their bullpen, even if they're not aware of them, and guys are on 'rungs' of either ladder, but only if they are foolish enough to allow her to define the frame. A guy on either ladder is still put into a position of qualifying for her intimacy, she's the PRIZE and she controls the frame. It's the Men who put her into a position of qualifying herself to him that zoom up to the top of her 'real' ladder.

The hot guy she bangs the night she meets him doesn't have to negotiate his way up her ladder and into her vagina. She wants to ƒuck him and therefore must qualify herself. The old wisdom says that a woman knows whether or not she'll ƒuck a guy within the first 5 minutes of meeting him. I disagree with this. A woman knows whether she WONT sleep with a guy in the first 5 minutes.

You may be on the top rung, but it's based on negotiation not spontaneous chemical passion. Her IL may be sufficient enough to entertain sleeping with you, but her DL (desire level) isn't there. You were essentially a good salesman, but you'll always be first alternate.

 

[joekerr31]

I would have had no problems with whatever I heard, but he came before me, which means she wasn't so innocent, she was uninterested until I grew on her.

ahhhh, now i see your problem. you think she's with you but not necessarily INTO you because 3 years ago she was with some other dude before you.

either way, big mistake turning the convo to sexual pasts, or even sex in general. to be honest i've made this mistake many many times. it took my dumb *ss a while before i saw the pattern - girl tells me about past sexual experiences, suddenly i go from seeing her as potential sweetheart to slut, vibe gets thrown off, feel like im buying a used car, she picks up on the vibe, everything goes to hell.

which is why i don't ask anymore. not only do i not ask, i dont want to know either. nothing good comes out of it. i don't share my sexual past with a woman either, its none of her business.

i wish i could say i was a bigger man and that it didn't impact me to hear what my woman did with previous guys, but the truth is it does. its not like i throw a fit or nothing, but its kind of like sprinkling salt on my apple pie, it took something that tasted great and made it taste like sh*t.

the only thing that matters to me is that im single, shes single and then take it from there. all the other stuff just creates a mess.

 

[Mr.Positive]

the only thing that matters to me is that im single, shes single and then take it from there. all the other stuff just creates a mess.

Did you go to the top rung of the ladder (so to speak) before or after you had sex with her?

She may not have had that instant chemical attraction from the get go, like the other guy, but....providing how the sex was, she may have it now. Sometimes women change their 'view' of you after some great sex.

I'll second the advise about her past. You can't change the past. Focus on her IL as it is right now, that's what matters....and protect that heart!!

 

[decades]

It's you and this chick together NOW...not yesterday not tommorow now. How is your relationship? Is she meeting your needs, treating you with respect, being a good partner? Does she devalue you in any way by alluding to other men or is she triangualting you against some other man in her life? Are YOU happy, and having Fun? Is this a quality person who will add value in your life? Is she mature and will she be a reasonable responsible ADULT? You get the idea. Forget about what HAS happened. But pay close attention to what IS happening.

 

[MR_PERFECT]

Mr. Positive, the problem with not having instant attraction is that you really don't want a woman you have to grow on. As the relationship progresses, the relationship changes to something more comfortable. Now, if your woman gets bored, she'll probably hang in there and you two will hopefully work things out. But, if the attraction was one that had to grow, and it wasn’t instant, all you need is for her to come across another guy that can instantly turn her on like the one that preceded you. Then she'll remember how that first guy made her feel, you know, the way you couldn't.

A woman's past is no big deal. I fell for a girl that told me everything about her past: the threesome that fell apart because the guys wouldn't stop laughing, the 10 inch guys, the guys old enough to be her father, the coworker, the woman, you name it. If a guy was able to get my woman off in seconds, I want to know how! If she always had an orgasm with one guy, I want to know what he did so I can do it. If she was into women, I need to know so I can stay away, because bi-sexual women will cheat on you with women. I learn from a woman's past, not get jealous.

Out of all the women I've known, she had less interest in me than any woman I've ever known. This woman's past was an issue because she wouldn't kiss me by the second date (over a week after meeting), but wanted to hold hands. Never initiated sex until the end. Sexually, she did things to me only because I did things to her. This time around, though, I know she likes me. Sexually, I get anything I want. I'm the one giving her multiple orgasms, and both friends and family, are telling her that they think I'm good-looking - you know how women eat that stuff up. It most ways, she would be the perfect girlfriend. I've been given the keys to the kingdom, but my ego won't allow me to be happy with it.

 

[joekerr31]

She may not have had that instant chemical attraction from the get go, like the other guy, but....providing how the sex was, she may have it now. Sometimes women change their 'view' of you after some great sex.

women can change their view if you give them enough of a 'high'. unfortunately the moment that high goes away they return to seeing you as they did in the beginning.

i heavily agree with what rollo has asserted many times - nothing is as strong as when a woman was initially attracted to you in the beginning.

im telling ya, the women who have been attracted to me from the get go, i'd basically have to p*ss on their face while they sleep to get them to leave me. these women see you as the prize from the get go. you basically have to mess up over and over for that to change. if you are the slightest bit nice to them they worship the ground you walk on.

the women i've had to work to get their IL up can be fine for a while, but eventually they become more work than its worth.

 

[joekerr31]

I'm the one giving her multiple orgasms, and both friends and family, are telling her that they think I'm good-looking - you know how women eat that stuff up. It most ways, she would be the perfect girlfriend. I've been given the keys to the kingdom, but my ego won't allow me to be happy with it.

it sounds ot me like you may still be subconsciously upset with her that you weren't good enough for her back in the day.

you may be harboring some residual feelings of resentment.

from what you are telling us your IL in you is as high as it can get. so the problem becomes what?

it seems to me that the problem can only be that you are either worried about her IL dropping or you still harbor some resentment over the past.

if its the prior, only time will tell if that will happen. if its the latter, you need to reassess whether you are banging this chic because you wanted to take a stab at reaching the summit that eluded you last time, or whether you genuine like this woman more than you would other women.