Dynamics of an LTR and being a man

[imarockstar]

Hey guys,

Been a while since I posted. I still lurk here when Im bored. Ive been on this board since late 2008 and I dont even think I have 100 posts yet. Not that it matters, just saying that Ive been really busy with work, school, and most of all, the dreaded LTR. Im not sure if Im here to ask for advice or to give it, I guess I just want feedback and others experiences so that I can learn. What I have learned as of late is that no matter how much a woman raves about you, she can feel the exact opposite at the drop of a dime.

Me and my girl have been together for 9 months. I started out being really insecure in this relationship, but still keeping my b@lls intact somehow. I always had this sinking feeling that she would cheat on me and have no problem with it. After getting to know her, Ive found that I can trust her, to a certain extent that is. But she has definately proved me wrong and turned out to be a pretty decent girlfriend. This goes to show that sometimes your gut can steer you wrong.

Fast forward to the 6 month mark. We discover that most of our fights stem from alcohol. I wasnt quite happy at the time, constantly thinking about other women, wondering why I was still wasting my time in a LTR while Im in my mid-20s. Either way, we decide to not get blackout drunk as much, not really a bad thing I guess. All the while, I remain in control. I keep my heart protected and I stay somewhat distant. A month later she tells me that she needs more from me. She needs more affection, more desire, she needs me to open up to her and stop being so guarded. HUGE MISTAKE.

The past 3 days I feel as though shes been quick to hop off the phone, doesnt say the usual things like "i miss you, cant wait to see you etc". Usually she will drive the extra 15 minutes to my house just to sleep next to me. Last night she didnt. Spare me the "Dude next her, she was cheating on you", because I really dont believe she was. She called me as soon as she left work. It really just feels like she and I have switched places. She is the cold distant one, and I am the adoring boyfriend wanting to see her all the time. This whole transition in only 3 days.

Ive been drinking a little bit, so Im starting to ramble and sound like an idiot. What I need to say is that you cant really let your guard down and completely open up until you are married. Even while you are engaged I wouldnt do it. Ive never broken down and cried in front of this girl or bought flowers or any of your typical puppy dog acts of buying love, but the last few days I have opened up and told the girl I love her a little more often than usual.

I called her out on being indifferent, and she responds by saying she needs some time to herself, she loves me and doesnt want to break up, but she feels like she is focusing too much on this relationship and not enough on her. I told her I want her to be happy and thats fine. I was a little frustrated, but I told her I understand. She will get all the space she needs until I feel comfortable with giving her attention again. I will make her miss me. She wont feel the satisfaction of toying with my emotions like Im a puppet on her string. Though the ball is in her court at the moment, it will soon be in mine. I will be short with her, I will act indifferent, and when questioned why, I will tell her I agree, and that Im not sure about the relationship either. That Im not really sure about us as a couple anymore.

Im sorry if this post is too convoluted, I know it looks like just a bunch of thoughts put together. But for me, this is like a diary. Tomorrow I will read this, and reflect on it. If it helps anyone in the process, then even better. What this whole post boils down to is: never become too attached, never let your guard down, always call the shots. BE THE MAN IN THE RELATIONSHIP. Dont leave that duty up to a woman, because their logic is based on hormones and emotion, they change as rapidly as the time.

 

[Burroughs]

You could 'be the man in the relationship' and she could still cheat on you.

By the way she is cheating on you...but I guess you already know that deep down.

 

[Colossus]

You are totally afraid dude.

You are afraid of her hurting you, you are afraid of being rejected by her, you are afraid of loving her more than she loves you.

This "indifference" game only really works when you are dating a girl, not in a relationship. And let me ask you this: What makes you think you will be so much safer in the illusory security of marriage? You think that you are somehow insulated from the outcomes of AFC thinking inside a marriage? The problem isnt her changing her feelings at the drop of a dime....that is just a symptom of your insecurity. You cant just act indifferent and aloof (when you actually have feelings for her) and expect to have any tangible success in a relationship. The reason why you are doing this is because you are afraid if you DO open up and be a bit vulnerable with her, she will seize the power and destroy you. You are afraid of her power over you, whether you realize it yet or not.

Listen, women dont just go from being highly interested in you to cold and distant for no reason. The dynamics of what happened here arent very complicated either; in fact they are totally predictable. This girl felt very insecure about your feelings for her. She wasnt getting what she needs as a woman, and this probably sparked a lot of your drunken fights. When women arent getting their needs met in a relationship, they tend to henpeck you and pick fights. So you isolated PART of the problem, alcohol, yet continued to maintain your facade of cool indifference. She continues to feel insecure about the relationship, until she realized she is pouring too much into you and getting nothing in return. So--again predictably--she begins to pull back and seek her attention needs elsewhere. Naturally you come on stronger thinking you may lose her, and she is even more turned off by this reactive behavior on your part, smelling the insecurity even if she doesnt consciously realize it. This is a self-perpetuating loop that will continue until you discover she c0ck-hopped, or she is kind and dumps you beforehand.

You are still an AFC, and please dont take that as an insult. I'm not here to judge you---I was there once too. Take this as constructive feedback to spur you into better development as a Man. Chances are this girl isnt right for you anyways, since you had doubts about her from the get-go. That is never a good sign. Plus, by your own admission you are (or were) more interested in chasing tail at this point in your life, and felt this LTR to be a waste.

My suspicion is that she has already begun her exit. You might be able to get her back with some careful manipulation, but IMO it isnt worth it. Cut your losses and start fresh. You have bigger issues to work out, like your emotional insecurity with women.

 

[Bible_Belt]

My suspicion is that she has already begun her exit

Asking for "space" is usually the beginning of the end, I agree. But regardless the right answer for when a woman pulls away from you, whether it's a first date or a ltr, is to always back away further yourself. The reaction to chase after her may be more damaging to the ltr than her request for space.

 

[zekko]

IMO if you ever hear the words "I need more space", you're with the wrong girl.

I also doubt that saying "I love you a little more often than usual" would prompt such a negative reaction from her. There must be more to it than that. Like there could be damage built up over time, or she's bored with the relationship, or she has her sites set on someone else, etc.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear RockStar,
Whilst I agree,that a Person initially wanting more space is generally the first step in a break up,it does not always lead to that end....
If it were me,I would pull away a bit,and start dating other Ladies....generally as you pull away they will come towards you....Either which way,you should start looking around anyway.

 

[imarockstar]

You guys make some valid points. Its crazy to me how I look back on what actually happened and try to make sense of it. I thought I was doing everything right. In the beginning she chased me, we didnt become official until she practically begged me, she said I love you first, our sex is great and passionate, but one way or another a shift occurred and I became the chaser and she the chasee. This moment was on our way home from a trip, and I was telling her how much I loved her and appreciated her and how I felt as though I didnt tell her enough. I also remember my exact words when I said, "sh*t i feeling like im saying it too much". Its like this whole relationship shes been wanting my affection and for me to open up, now that she has it the challenge has been removed.

Colossus you are totally accurate with your assumptions. The only problem with your statement is that we had only been dating for 6 months when she sprung this "open up, give me affection" mentality on me. I just wasnt ready, and I explained that to her. I dont think it makes me an AFC if I did not give her all of me when I did not actually feel that way. An AFC would profess his undying love for her in order to please her. It wasnt so much a game of indifference as how I truly felt, that we only dated for a short period of time, and those feelings were not yet present. I was not totally cold, the longer we dated and the more trust I gained in her, it let me open up to her a little more. Just a month ago, she on the other hand was bringing up how she wanted babies by next year, a week ago she was saying how in love with me she was and how if i asked her to marry me she would say yes. God just typing this makes me realize that maybe its best if I just end it. A relationship should not be this much work, especially at my age.

The weird thing is, this happened around the same time of year about 3 years ago with my ex. She was unsure about the relationship, but it makes sense to me now because I was a total puppydog to her. I was completely open with her, cried in front of her, told her how in love I was with her. I was like that the whole relationship. I even wrote her this long letter about how we needed to be together, I emailed her mother for gods sakes and asked her to reason with her and change her mind. That to me is total AFC behavior, yet she stayed with me. It just doesnt make sense, but perhaps in the end I gave her the space she needed and I guess she realized what her life without me would be like.

I know what I need to do, and whether its playing a game or not, it has to be done. I have to pull away even farther and express to her that I am questioning our future as well. What Ive learned from relationships is that the woman must always chase us, it sucks that I cant fully open up to her, but at this age its just the way it is, women want what they cant have.

You are right about one thing though Colossus, I am emotionally insecure with women, but only in the beginning. Ive been in a 4 year relationship before and after that, I guess I just dont get my hopes up. I dont see the point of letting myself get hurt by someone whom Ive only dated for a few months. The point Im trying to make is, I can deal with losing this girl, because I didnt invest all of my feelings into her.

 

[Colossus]

You guys make some valid points. Its crazy to me how I look back on what actually happened and try to make sense of it. I thought I was doing everything right. In the beginning she chased me, we didnt become official until she practically begged me, she said I love you first, our sex is great and passionate, but one way or another a shift occurred and I became the chaser and she the chasee. This moment was on our way home from a trip, and I was telling her how much I loved her and appreciated her and how I felt as though I didnt tell her enough. I also remember my exact words when I said, "sh*t i feeling like im saying it too much". Its like this whole relationship shes been wanting my affection and for me to open up, now that she has it the challenge has been removed.

Yeah you've made a good observation, which is that women like to chase. In the very beginning I think they like to be pursued, but in the long run I think you'll find they almost need a man who is a step ahead of them at times. Maybe he works a little too much, maybe he doesn't say 'i love you' as much as she does (even if he really does). I think they like to feel they have earned your affection. This is a broad statement of course but I've found it to be true in my own experience.

Colossus you are totally accurate with your assumptions. The only problem with your statement is that we had only been dating for 6 months when she sprung this "open up, give me affection" mentality on me. I just wasnt ready, and I explained that to her. I dont think it makes me an AFC if I did not give her all of me when I did not actually feel that way. An AFC would profess his undying love for her in order to please her. It wasnt so much a game of indifference as how I truly felt, that we only dated for a short period of time, and those feelings were not yet present. I was not totally cold, the longer we dated and the more trust I gained in her, it let me open up to her a little more. Just a month ago, she on the other hand was bringing up how she wanted babies by next year, a week ago she was saying how in love with me she was and how if i asked her to marry me she would say yes. God just typing this makes me realize that maybe its best if I just end it. A relationship should not be this much work, especially at my age.

Understood. By the way the bold is a red flag.

The weird thing is, this happened around the same time of year about 3 years ago with my ex. She was unsure about the relationship, but it makes sense to me now because I was a total puppydog to her. I was completely open with her, cried in front of her, told her how in love I was with her. I was like that the whole relationship. I even wrote her this long letter about how we needed to be together, I emailed her mother for gods sakes and asked her to reason with her and change her mind. That to me is total AFC behavior, yet she stayed with me. It just doesnt make sense, but perhaps in the end I gave her the space she needed and I guess she realized what her life without me would be like.

You are correct that is massive AFC behavior. But even AFCs get laid and have relationships and marriages. They just never have the upper hand.

I know what I need to do, and whether its playing a game or not, it has to be done. I have to pull away even farther and express to her that I am questioning our future as well. What Ive learned from relationships is that the woman must always chase us, it sucks that I cant fully open up to her, but at this age its just the way it is, women want what they cant have.

I dont think that is a bad plan, but I would do this with the full expectation it may be game over. That's the only way you'll come out on top.

You are right about one thing though Colossus, I am emotionally insecure with women, but only in the beginning. Ive been in a 4 year relationship before and after that, I guess I just dont get my hopes up. I dont see the point of letting myself get hurt by someone whom Ive only dated for a few months. The point Im trying to make is, I can deal with losing this girl, because I didnt invest all of my feelings into her.

Well you're probably a little reluctant to open up after your last LTR, understandably. Most every MM here would agree that you should reveal yourself cautiously. However, you should also know at this point--9 months--if she they type of woman you want to do this with.

You'll also learn that there is a fine line between being open and honest with your woman, and sharing TOO much or being TOO emotional. There are just some things better left to discussed with your mates, your parents, or a counselor. Women need to feel they are with someone with a stronger constitution than they have, so part of being a Man is knowing what and when to share with your wife or gf. That's not to say your should be dishonest, but some things you gotta work out on your own. You'll figure it out. I used to just dump every little insecurity I had on my ex-gf, and she still stayed with me, but she lost some respect for me. I most certainly did not have the upper hand.

In a lot of ways this really does seem like a game, much to the lament of recovering AFCs. I think it's more about learning how to handle your emotional, spiritual, and financial business without a woman; THEN bringing one into your life who complements you. Every dude is different, but I think guys who spend their entire 20's in LTRs lose a lot of personal development time.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

iamarockstar --

In some ways man I think you might be being too hard on yourself.

In a lot of ways, it is easy to look back at an LTR that is unravelling or has and try to piece it together logically and understand your individual errs, where you went wrong, and where to improve next time.

I think this process works in most things in life -- say in work or in hobbies -- but with women it is not always so straight forward and black and white -- it is not always so easy to reduce things down and get some straight answer and say "aha this is why her behavior ultimately changed". Sure sometimes this works (ie, okay I cheated, or okay I shouted), but most times, not always so easy.

So lighten up on yourself a bit first of all -- why she wanted more nourishment from you, and then once having received, switched on a dime, is hard to tell. Some women despise lovey dovey stuff -- others thrive on it. Responding to what she is asking more of, is, common sense for most people in any sort of relationship they value. It sounds like there may be other issues at play in your relationship beyond her not feeling enough affection from you, or warmth.

What has the subjects been of your drunken arguments?

That's one thing to consider -- maybe there are other variables that are causing her withdrawl.

You truly should be very proud of yourself -- you worked hard to identify what mattered to you. It's not your fault you didn't feel like opening up as much with this one. It's not some inherent fault in you -- it is more so about the dynamic. A different woman in your life, in the future, may not present the same challenges. It may be much easier to be your true self, or to trust, and to also understand if she jeopardizes that trust, it is her loss. It is truly hard to feign genuine care for someone. Perhaps your past LTR, despite your AFC emails to the mother, etc, had that genuine care. And that is a factor for people, men and women.

You said this,

A relationship should not be this much work, especially at my age.

and I don't think you could be more right. I view this now myself -- and if there is a lot of friction in the beginning, it's just the odds that it will continue that way or get worse. Sure there are exceptions, and everyone has heard of some relationship where maybe they clashed at one point but then really jived -- but the truth is if these withdrawl things are occurring now, it is likely this is a repeatable trend with this girl.

Maybe give it a bit of time and see what pans out. Maybe she is going through some random **** in her head. Give her the space she wants, but make sure you are doing something valuable with your time to be growing -- don't let this relationship convolute or distract you (easier said than done I know) but really focus on self growth.

Part of our age is dating, and this is the reality of it. You date someone for awhile and it just fades out or changes.

But it is through this process that you will find a woman you genuinely care for, and who genuinely cares for you.

There are stepping stones along the way.

much love man.
--bm

//final thoughts -- her having wanted closer attention from you at some point, and you being unable to give it (because you genuinely did not feel the same connection) could have something to do with where this is now too -- it seems there is a certain pace a relationship takes, and if either party disrupts the natural flow of that pace, inevitably it paints future events (ie, that one time I really needed him where was he -- that sort of thing). You can't blame yourself for being unable to feel the things you wanted to feel, or she wanted you to feel; but recognize those moments when there is a *blip* in either persons pace and try and understand and make a decision if this is right / wrong for the future. Anyways man, it sounds like you are genuinely a good person -- preserve yourself, everything will be all good!

 

[imarockstar]

Colossus you were absolutely right, I was terrified to be out of this relationship, I just did not want to admit it. I can say that this was one of the best relationships for me, because I stood my ground on many occasions. But I also went overboard, let her emotional outbursts affect my mental state, and I thought yelling at her was BEING A MAN. How wrong I was.

Well I grew a set of balls and went by her house the other day to "talk". I then told her that we needed to break up, that we need to go our separate ways, and that yeah the sex was great, and she can feel free to hit me up for a booty call but thats about it. I realize maybe I should not have said that, but I was horny haha. Point is I ended it.

In the past 3 days since I broke it off, no contact was made, until she texted me last night, figures. Either way, I can now acknowledge my mistakes, and correct them in future endeavors.

I just read your most recent thread Colossus and its true, balance is a core dynamic of being the dominant component of a relationship. I thought I was balanced by not being a total loser. Going to school, work, hitting the gym, but never really spending time with friends, not really stepping out of my comfort zone and trying new things. Just seems like you lose a bit of yourself in a LTR, like a small loss of motivation. I guess with balance, you dont worry so much because the woman is no longer your main focus and you wont be scared to walk away.

Anyways, this relationship may have failed, but at least I left with pride, and a whole lot more knowledge than I had before it. This is my first LTR as a "wannabe DJ", and because of this site Im able to see where I went wrong during its course.

 

[yaynyppys!]

me too!

Damn, I feel like I'm going through the same thing, imarockstar ("oooh I need space")! I'm glad you posted about this.. definitely need to get back into my own frame of mind. It's too bad that good LTRs make guys tend towards AFC behaviour :kick:

 

[Colossus]

Good job dude....you wont regret it. You learn WAY more when things are downriver and you can see where you went wrong.