Dropped Plate over a Tipping issue

[STR8UP]

I wish tipping could be eliminated tomorrow and that waiters and bartenders could be paid what exactly they're worth by their employers.

And then we would get "European style" service. No thanks.

On top of that, the price of your meal would have to go up accordingly. You wouldn't be saving a penny.

But as long as it's the custom, I'm tipping 15-20% for good service, less than 15% for poor service, 20% and up for exceptional service, and nothing or next to it for terrible service.

The problem with most people is that they have never worked in the service industry and blame the server/bartender for EVERYTHING. If your food arrives in twice the time it should, it isn't the server's fault, but people use it as an excuse to not tip.

As you stated, service staff put up with a lot of sh!t. And the ironic thing is that it's usually the ass holes who give you the MOST sh!t who are the ones stiffing you.

On a side note....a bartender at a busy nightclub can make $200-$300 or maybe more in a night, but that's BUSTING ASS for hours on end, having to clean up the bar as you are walking out of there at 2am with a floozy on your arm, and generally they only have 2-3 busy days per week. If you add in the slow nights where they make $50 or less, that $250 for those couple of days isn't much.

People who haven't worked this type of job before definitely should. It builds character. I am the person I am today and can attribute much of my foundation of knowledge of human nature to my early days pouring drinks at a popular local bar.

Trust me....I've seen it all.

 

[Amazing]

And then we would get "European style" service. No thanks.

On top of that, the price of your meal would have to go up accordingly. You wouldn't be saving a penny.



The problem with most people is that they have never worked in the service industry and blame the server/bartender for EVERYTHING. If your food arrives in twice the time it should, it isn't the server's fault, but people use it as an excuse to not tip.

As you stated, service staff put up with a lot of sh!t. And the ironic thing is that it's usually the ass holes who give you the MOST sh!t who are the ones stiffing you.

On a side note....a bartender at a busy nightclub can make $200-$300 or maybe more in a night, but that's BUSTING ASS for hours on end, having to clean up the bar as you are walking out of there at 2am with a floozy on your arm, and generally they only have 2-3 busy days per week. If you add in the slow nights where they make $50 or less, that $250 for those couple of days isn't much.

People who haven't worked this type of job before definitely should. It builds character. I am the person I am today and can attribute much of my foundation of knowledge of human nature to my early days pouring drinks at a popular local bar.

Trust me....I've seen it all.

One of the craziest days of my life was when I was the only bartender on a slow Sunday afternoon, and the local Harley Dealership decided to pick my bar as their annual celebration. Hundred people and 5 Jack Bottles went to town, I've never worked this hard in my life.


Tipping is fine, overtipping is shortsighted imo. My cousin tips at subway and Mcdonalds.. I don't understand but sometimes I do the same to get rid of change

 

[The Bat]

I've addressed my stance on tipping here:

http://www.nextlevelgame.net/showpost.php?p=33290&postcount=56

Now, the real issue:

All is fair in the game of love.

I can just imagine the moralists getting ready to jump on their white horses and on their way to crucify me. But the way I look at it, in the context of dating, a Man is allowed to be as ruthless, deceiving, unpredictable, and dishonest as much as he wants. It's not so much that I like hurting girls emotionally, it's that from experience, I've realized that being "loyal, honest, respectful, and ethical" really takes lot of power away from you in the dating world.

I've also discovered that women act based on impulse alone when it comes to dating. You really think a woman can be honest and loyal to a guy she has been seeing for a month or so? Women are infamous for making really bad, "unethical", and dishonest decisions in the dating game.

For every 1 man like me, there are at least 10 other women out there who are even more ruthless than I am. Women are seeking both the good genes and the good provider mate, right? Well as a Man, I'm trying to seek every hot piece of ass that walks by into bed. Nothing wrong with that.

And nothing wrong with withholding that information from women I'm seeing. Look at it this way, I didn't lie to her or was incongruent. When she (or any of my plates) asks, "Do you want to be exclusive?", I say, "No." and if they ask, "Are you seeing other women?", I say, "Don't worry about it."

I told her the truth...that we are NOT exclusive...but I didn't tell her the complete truth...that I'm also seeing other women. That is why it was a bit ridiculous for her to tell me that I cheated and lied to her. First off, we weren't exclusive therefore I did not cheat. And I didn't lie to her...I just held back some truth. That is not the same as lying. All is fair in the game of love.

This is a recurring problem for me. The problem being that after 2-3 months, they start asking for exclusivity, and I have to tell them no, and they eventually realize that I see other women, at which point, they flip out and storm out the door. Either I need to get better at deception or figure out a way to tell them I am not a one-woman man and if they can't share me, then there is the door.

 

[Mr. Me]

And I didn't lie to her...I just held back some truth. That is not the same as lying.

Actually, it is lying. Lying comes in a few different forms, and the one you're talking about is "lying by omission".

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

"One lies by omission by omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions."

Isn't that what you did when she asked you if you were seeing other women? Kind of deflect it with an assuring "don't worry about it"?

Hey, but I'm not your conscience, nor your jury. Just a fact checker.

 

[STR8UP]

Bat....I'm with you on your stance with women, BTW. I don't think you did anything "wrong" by dancing around the plate question, but at the same time you might not have handled it optimally. You just have to be prepared for the repercussions of not being completely open, or if you stumble while you are juggling.

You are absolutely right that women are FAR more dishonest and ruthless in relationships than men are. The comparison between men's desire to spread their seed and women's desire to seek out two different kinds of seed is appropriate because it partially explains why people cheat.

 

[#41]

You should never tip below $2 for any meal, even if your bill comes to $6 at a Steak n' Shake. When out on a date, 20% is the rule. If the service was crap, you look like the better person if you give a proper tip.

 

[Amazing]

You should never tip below $2 for any meal, even if your bill comes to $6 at a Steak n' Shake. When out on a date, 20% is the rule. If the service was crap, you look like the better person if you give a proper tip.

You are stupid.


You encourage 20% tipping for bad service. Jesus.

 

[ketostix]

I don't think you can be honest with women very often and you have to act coy. But that doesn't mean you have to be deceptive and dishonest. That will bring you more problems. If a woman directly ask if you are seeing other people, and if you are then you need to address it and realize she is insinuating she wants exclusitivity. Maybe turn the question around on her, and ask if she is seeing others. Then instead of answering the question, ask her why does she want to know, does she want to become exclusive.

I don't think there was much of anything wrong with how the OP handled her question if he actually was NOT seeing other woman. This is what he told her in an implied and subtle way, which is a good way to do it had that been what was really his situation. Instead, she found out he actually was seeing other women and correctly saw it as being deceived/lied to.

I don't agree with intentionally deceiving someone over whether or not you are being exclusive. That's just ridiculous.

There's a lot of honest things and lots of topics you can't talk to women about, but that doesn't mean you have to be dishonest and deceptive about everything. It's more of a matter of revealing half the truth and being implicit.

 

[jophil28]

Why would anyone NOT want to reveal that they are seeing other women.

IF it is true that women are MORE attracted to men who are "hard to get", or who are being pursued by other women, then it is in a guy's interests to fully reveal his other dating activities .

Letting her know openly that she has potential rivals is more likely to drive her to COMPETE harder rather than RETREAT.

Surely we all know, and discuss, this phenomenon quite often on this forum.
It is kind of a no-brainer.

 

[#41]

You are stupid.


You encourage 20% tipping for bad service. Jesus.

Yup, unless the waiter personally insults me at the table or says something offensive, I'm tipping 20%

There are many things that contribute to bad service that are not the fault of your waiter -- including, but not limited to, other servers calling in sick and increasing the table load for that server for the evening, screw ups in the kitchen which cause delays (not necessarily even your food, screwing up someone else's food can cause a server to spend more time attending to that table to prevent a situation), fatigue or illness (servers don't get paid vacation, if they aren't in on a friday, they aren't getting paid), etc.

At the end of the day, I do it because I can afford to do it. I've gone through college and law school, I've passed the bar, and I don't need to hold down crap jobs. I remember when I had to though, and I remember the days people put up with my bullsh1t because I was having one of those days, or when I'd worked my internship that morning and was coming to work at night. It's part of life.

So, p!ss off with your attitude. Be cheap, I don't give a crap. Just be prepared to look like a douche when you go cheap on the tip for some perceived slight by the waitstaff that really a bigger person would've overlooked.

 

[Amazing]

Yup, unless the waiter personally insults me at the table or says something offensive, I'm tipping 20%

There are many things that contribute to bad service that are not the fault of your waiter -- including, but not limited to, other servers calling in sick and increasing the table load for that server for the evening, screw ups in the kitchen which cause delays (not necessarily even your food, screwing up someone else's food can cause a server to spend more time attending to that table to prevent a situation), fatigue or illness (servers don't get paid vacation, if they aren't in on a friday, they aren't getting paid), etc.

At the end of the day, I do it because I can afford to do it. I've gone through college and law school, I've passed the bar, and I don't need to hold down crap jobs. I remember when I had to though, and I remember the days people put up with my bullsh1t because I was having one of those days, or when I'd worked my internship that morning and was coming to work at night. It's part of life.

So, p!ss off with your attitude. Be cheap, I don't give a crap. Just be prepared to look like a douche when you go cheap on the tip for some perceived slight by the waitstaff that really a bigger person would've overlooked.

Once again, you are stupid.

Not one thing you've mentioned is directly related to how you tip. It is ALL about attitude of the server. I don't care if she ****s up my meal or brings a different drink as long as her attitude is great and she makes it up to me.

But I guess a bigger person would not make up bill hours to make his partner happy and scheme money away via nonexistent fees.

 

[horaholic]

Whether you agree with tipping good or not, its not too smart to make yourself look like a cheapo in front of a chick. If you did that on a date, her attraction would plummet. You'd risk an f-close over a dollar or two. With the OP's case, it is obviously a bigger issue, though. If that were the only issue, then he just lost a sex partner for $1.50.

Im sure someone will say "Well, your a supplicating afc, if you only tip good for her sake." That would be just plain moronic. Shell out a couple bucks, for christs sake. If the service sucks, be a real man and tell them what they did wrong, so they can do better. Sometimes the servers arent too bright, and cant figure out why the dont get tipped. Let them know. She might have had a bad attitude, cuz her husband fvcked her sister the night before. Theres no way of knowing. Show some tolerance, and some class. Especially in front of a chick.

 

[Nelford]

Dude you deceived her. Tell the truth next time bro. If a girl ask you if you are dating tell her yes and change the subject. I use to do the same thing you did when I was young and it never work out for me. I use to think if I told them I was seeing more than one girl they wouldn't go for it, but it actually work in my favor. They are not going anywhere. You just gave them a challenge. They are competing for the number one spot.

 

[The Bat]

Bat....I'm with you on your stance with women, BTW. I don't think you did anything "wrong" by dancing around the plate question, but at the same time you might not have handled it optimally. You just have to be prepared for the repercussions of not being completely open, or if you stumble while you are juggling.

You are absolutely right that women are FAR more dishonest and ruthless in relationships than men are. The comparison between men's desire to spread their seed and women's desire to seek out two different kinds of seed is appropriate because it partially explains why people cheat.

Thank god there is someone else who has been around and knows what he is talking about.

I can't help but laugh at people who are suggesting to reveal other girls to a girl who I have been seeing for quite some time. Perhaps, the tactic of revealing your plate spinning methodology would work in the beginning but as GURU pointed out, after couple of months, if the girl has high IL, she will throw an ultimatum of "exclusive or not"....and if you tell them there are other girls...well say goodbye to that ass.

 

[ketostix]

Thank god there is someone else who has been around and knows what he is talking about.

I can't help but laugh at people who are suggesting to reveal other girls to a girl who I have been seeing for quite some time. Perhaps, the tactic of revealing your plate spinning methodology would work in the beginning but as GURU pointed out, after couple of months, if the girl has high IL, she will throw an ultimatum of "exclusive or not"....and if you tell them there are other girls...well say goodbye to that ass.

Ironic you should say that. You did it your way and still laugh at other people's advice, and I guess you count a blow out and a dropped plate as success. You're just not open to listening to what several of us posters said. I guess a person is never wrong as long as they don't believe they're wrong.

 

[Mr. Me]

I guess a person is never wrong as long as they don't believe they're wrong.

You know, some time ago I was on the plentyoffish forums, and there were so many guys that posted threads about how they were being so "nice" to the girls, what with bringing flowers on the first date, springing for lovely dinners, writing love poems in their first emails to them, and so on, you know the type, and of course they were posting because they got dumped, the girls didn't return calls, they couldn't get a second date and these guys were all now being angry at how "rude and immature" these women were to them. Of course we know that many women see right through that nice guy syndrome and know they're dealing with a disingenuous person. Those guys have only themselves to blame.

You try talking to these guys and advice them where they're off course, but damn, they will fight you tooth and nail to defend their nice guy syndrome, labeling any other way as being a jerk, and alleging that this is who they are, this is the way to be and they can't help but be what they are.

And I mention all this because how far different is that then when a guy thinks he's a DJ but he's still off course and defending his disingenuous ways to the death, ridiculing anything else but?

 

[azanon]

So when I first started seeing this plate, she asked me if I’m seeing other women. I laughed it off and told her not to worry unless she wanted to have a threesome. :crackup:

What's wrong with kindly smiling and saying "sure, I occasionally have other dates" minus the jacka** "don't worry about it" comment? No reason to lie, no reason to evade, and no reason to get defensive. State the truth confidently and clearly because the truth is the best answer - yes, you're dating which will read to her "you have competition and I'm wanted by other women".

Needless to say, the ride back to her house wasn’t very fun. She ranted the whole time (about 10 min ride) so I don’t remember everything she said. But things along the lines of how I’m selfish and immoral to not tip enough and to lie to girls, etc. I kept quiet the whole time because I didn’t want a headache of getting into a huge fight with her, and I had already decided to next her so I wasn’t going to waste my time arguing.

Nice! Sounds like all kinds of attraction you've got brewed up inside that woman. I dunno man - I'd probably keep hitting that. It's certainly your choice. Hey, why not throw a brief apology for being a jerk with your answer about the dating thing, but downplay it. Then "push" again later to piss her off again. Then "pop" when you're the mood.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

If you can generate all kinds of drama inside her head, but be level-headed yourself, then you've got the exact idea of DJ.

So what do you think, men? Did she really flip out because of the tip or the fact that she ran into me and a different girl (which happened about a month ago)? As I dropped her off, I so badly wanted to tell her that, “Oh I’m not seeing one other girl behind your back. I’m seeing actually four.”…and proceed to burn out and drive off.

Because of the "Different girl" is the answer. "Tip" was just the excuse to finally confront you with her anger about that other girl.

Good job. Just work on that pseudo defensive response about dating other women.

 

[ketostix]

You try talking to these guys and advice them where they're off course, but damn, they will fight you tooth and nail to defend their nice guy syndrome, labeling any other way as being a jerk, and alleging that this is who they are, this is the way to be and they can't help but be what they are.

And I mention all this because how far different is that then when a guy thinks he's a DJ but he's still off course and defending his disingenuous ways to the death, ridiculing anything else but?

I don't see any difference either. If someone goes about it the wrong way it doesn't matter if they label their way "DJ" and another way "AFC". It's the same principle as a nice guy labeling the other's way "Jerk". Wrong is wrong and it's just labels and semantics.

 

[jophil28]

Ironic you should say that. You did it your way and still laugh at other people's advice, and I guess you count a blow out and a dropped plate as success. You're just not open to listening to what several of us posters said. I guess a person is never wrong as long as they don't believe they're wrong.

Yes, we have a few of that kind on this forum.

The only measure of the validity of a man's strategy in the dating game is RESULTS. His perception is NOT reality UNLESS it aligns with the ultimate outcome.

However ,a skewed perception ( belief system) WILL ultimately create outcomes which are consistent with those beliefs because our behavior produces results which are shaped and derived from our beliefs.

"AS a man thinketh so he shall become".

IF you believe that there are no Quality women and you buy into the nonsense that it is a myth, then you WILL inevitably meet women who have no QUALITY because they are fulfilling your beliefs.

 

[The Bat]

What's wrong with kindly smiling and saying "sure, I occasionally have other dates" minus the jacka** "don't worry about it" comment? No reason to lie, no reason to evade, and no reason to get defensive. State the truth confidently and clearly because the truth is the best answer - yes, you're dating which will read to her "you have competition and I'm wanted by other women".

Good job. Just work on that pseudo defensive response about dating other women.

Well, I have said that to other women in the past. Yes, it worked because it generated a competition anxiety out of them. But when they wanted exclusivity, I had to tell them that I can't be exclusive with them because I am dating other women and I want to see if there is something there with those women.

Obviously, this doesn't work well with them when they want you for themselves. They wouldn't like my answer and end things.

And when I did become "exclusive" with them, they would continuously spy on me to see if I'm still seeing other women. Of course, I was still spinning plates and eventually they would be discovered by the "exclusive" plate.

So, I figured I should just stop telling them I see other women. And if they ever wanted exclusivity, I can keep stalling them with a response similar to what GURU stated earlier, "I want to see if there is something there so let's just wait awhile. If it happens, it will happen."

That is actually working with 2 of my other plates right now who asked for exclusivity couple of weeks ago. Now these 2 know that I don't see other women and have no clue that I'm seeing other women. Although they have to suspect that I must be seeing other women because of my wide social circle and my stalling on their exclusivity offer. It's just a matter of time before these 2 plates get tired of my exclusivity and decide to leave.

I should make clear of my goals with spinning plates here. I have never been in an exclusive relationship in my life. One reason is that in the beginning, I was a mega chump and couldn't figure out how to get women. Then I figured out how to get women and wanted to become exclusive yet I kept ruining that part by being needy and desperate as things went along.

Now, I want to continue getting women with no intention of getting in an exclusive relationship with any one woman. Ever since I've figured out how to attract women, I have had no problem attracting women whenever I pleased. Call it a drug/addiction/whatever, but the thrill of the chase is adventurous and very fun. I could never see myself out of the game or out of the loop.

I figured there has to be some guys on here who know how to keep spinning plates for a long period of time. But I'm starting to realize that plates won't spin forever. Sooner or later, either they will lose interest in you and drop you or ask you for exclusivity, which you may or may not be able to provide, but as soon as you're discovered being "not exclusive" then they drop you. There is really no way around it.

No skin off my back though. Even if all 5 of my plates dropped today, I could go out and spin 2 or 3 more easily in couple of weeks.