DragonCow on EFFORT's Starting Option B

[DragonCow]

Hi all. Have been lurking for a long time, decided to register and start a log. So here we go.

Age: 19
Height: 5'9"
Weight: 169lbs
BF: Not sure, probably 25%

Stats
Squat: 5RM 220lb
Deadlift: 5RM 275lbs
Incline BP: 5RM 140lbs

Goals
Squat: 5RM 300+lbs
Deadlift: 5RM 400+lbs
Incline BP: 5RM 200+lbs
BF: 20% or less

Routine: EFFORT's Starting Option B http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125444
Starting on Monday(10/27/2008), and lifting on M/W/F. Already did Week 1 Max Testing.

Diet (while avoiding starch)

Breakfast:
2 Bananas
8 Hard Boiled Eggs
2 fried eggs
Lots of Water, refuse to drink milk it makes me bloated
Multivitamin
9g of fishoil

Lunch:
2 Apples
2 Scoops of Whey
Random Veggies
Some type of meat depending on what is served in the cafeteria
9g of fish oil

Dinner:
Some source of meat, again depends on cafeteria
Fruit(Bananas/Apples/Oranges) amount depending on hunger level
Whey if there was no meat, it sucked, or wasn't enough
Multivitamin
9g of fish oil

Post Workout:
1 banana
2 Scoops of Whey

Pre Workout: (The plan is to lift a few hours after lunch, but if that doesn't workout)
2 Bananas

Other things to keep in mind. I play football and basketball several times a week, sometimes badminton. Will try not to push it too hard so it doesn't get in the way of my gains. It is also crucial that I don't lose any speed and agility, hopefully gain some.

Please critique constructively. IE Not enough food/too much food, wrong foods.

 

[DragonCow]

Routine

Routine details.

MON
Squats 2 x 5
Squats 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 2 x 10-15
Hyperextension 2 x 8
Calf Raises 2 x 10

WED
Incline Press 2 x 5
Flat Dumbbell Press 2 x 8-10
Shoulder Press 2 x 8-12
Dips 2 x 10-15

FRI
Deadlifts 2 x 5
Chinup 2 x 8
Bicep Curl 2 x 8-10 (Should this be done with a barbell or dumbells?)
Forearm Exercise 2 x 10-15

How often should I increase weights, is there a systematic way to do it or is different for everyone?

 

[Quagmire911]

This should help keep your agility up:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=141664

I am guessing you will do plenty in the way of speed drills etc at football/basketball etc.

You didn't really mention what your goals are. Obviously if you are at 15%+ bodyfat then you will want to get this down. But beyond that what do you want to do? I don't really see you wanting to get big if you are playing a lot of sport. What did you have in mind physique wise? This will help with the diet side of things. Your food choices look decent (meat/fruits/veggies/eggs) but I don't know that there is enough, especially with your level of activity. How much protein/fat/carbs would you say you are getting in each day? How many calories?

Keep in mind that if you do want to get big, a lot of sport will not go hand in hand with this. What is the exact lay out of your sport? How many sessions? For how long?

You could see how you go on this routine, but if you are doing a lot then a two day might be a better option. I would take out the 1x15 squats if weight gain isn't a priority, and you are all ready doing a lot of sports.

Good luck.

 

[DragonCow]

Oops sorry forgot to put target weight. I like to play corner back, so around 190lbs is where I want to be. Eventually BF at 10%.

I'd say I eat around 300g of protein, 200g of fat, and carbs I don't really count much since it's all fruit. If it seems that my intake is not enough. I can bump it up to 20 eggs for breakfast, not sure how that will pan out with my stomach though.

 

[Quiksilver]

I'd limit my fruit intake for a few weeks if I were you, as you're just setting out. Only eat fruit at breakfast and immediately after a workout. Fructose(fruit sugar) is easily converted to body fat and since we don't know your individual carb tolerance just yet, it's best to keep a tight reign on anything that could add inches to your waist.

That being said, since you're a newbie as far as heavy lifting goes, don't skimp on the HIIT(intense cardio) just yet. Along with lifting, do it whenever you feel you're up to a session. Since you aren't lifting huge weights (yet) it shouldn't impact your recovery time at all, and it'll really rip that bodyfat right off you in short order. It'll also help your power and speed in heavy lifting.

cheers

 

[Warboss Alex]

I'd limit my fruit intake for a few weeks if I were you, as you're just setting out. Only eat fruit at breakfast and immediately after a workout. Fructose(fruit sugar) is easily converted to body fat

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Dragon, keep the fruit in. Quik is overanalysing again.

 

[Quagmire911]

What about overall calories?

AND answer this:

"What is the exact lay out of your sport? How many sessions? For how long."

Are you doing sport all year round? It may only be an option to add weight during an off season, if you have one.

Right now I would work on getting your bf under 15%. Once you accomplish this, then you can work on getting to 190 whilst keeping bf in check (15% or under). Once you hit 190-200 you can then start taking off some more fat to 10%.

However as I say, this will be difficult if you are doing a shi* ton of sport.

And how did you determine your bf of 25%? It seems awfully high for someone that is active. What is your waist size? Try and post some pics.

 

[mrRuckus]

I think most guys choose option B because it looks easier.

 

[DragonCow]

Monday

Mon:
Squat: 5x45 3x95 3x115 3x135 3x155 1x175 3x5x195
The workset was harder than I wish it had been. Also per Quag's advice, I omitted the 1x15 squats and decided to throw in another workset for a total of 3x5x195. Was this a good idea?

SLD: 2x10x135 Was OK, not too hard.

Hyperextensions: 2x8 Am I supposed to these weighted?

Calf Raises: 2x10x320 My shins are too short for seated calf raise machine, even when lowered all the way. I did it on some weird contraption where you sit, the weight is towards your ass, anyways the angle of the weight was sort of like that of a leg press.

Did some stretching at the end.

Quag: I'm not exactly consistent, I play mainly football and basketball, sometimes soccer. I play depending on how free I am and stuff, so there is not really a set pattern for off/on-season things since I am not in a varsity team or anything.

My BF I kinda made up of what I feel like, so it's really half assed. I don't really have a belly, I have some decent sized love handles though. I will see what I can do about the pictures.

Ruckus: Are you implying that Rippetoe's program is better than EFFORT's?

WA: Thank you sir. Love fruit.

I really appreciate everyone's support and advice.

 

[Quagmire911]

Adding in the extra set of 5 on squats is fine. The main reason I said not to do the 1x15-20 is for recovery reasons. If you are doing a lot of running about then that and squatting won't go hand in hand.

Do hyperextensions weighted if you can.

Btw, are you doing squats below parallel?

If you aren't consistent with the sports then you may find progression easier. Running yourself into the ground 3-4 times a week for 90minutes or whatever and doing it 2 times a week for 45 minutes are a lot different. So if you enjoy it then try and limit it to only a few sessions a week and be lazy and hang back .

Try and get pics if you can. But definitely take your waist measurement and post it in here. If you are actually around 15% (which is where you get "love handles") then you'd probably be better just focusing on gaining muscle. If this is the case you may even find that you would drop some fat from the new stimulus.

There is also nothing wrong with Option B. Myself, Stallion, Johnny, and Alex who first lay it out on this board made great gains doing it in our first year.

Anyway good start, keep it up.

 

[DragonCow]

Turns out I'm stupid so I somehow originally posted this on dmatter's thread. So yes, hopefully these will help.

Pics:
Side - http://i36.tinypic.com/runp8l.jpg
Front - http://i34.tinypic.com/nvs4n7.jpg
Back - http://i33.tinypic.com/m9sh03.jpg

For waist measurement I don't have a tape measure, so I kinda used a random piece of string. It's 33.7inches with it. I am supposed to measure the bony part below love handles right, not put the string right on top of love handles?

Squats, yes I do go below parallel. I'd say my ass reaches the middle of my shins in depth.

 

[Quagmire911]

No way are you 25% bf. I'd estimate 15%- maybe a tad more. I'd say the waist measurement confirms that.

Start piling in the beef and eggs. You could maybe use the first month to get down to 12% and then work on the weight. I know what Warboss would say though...

 

[Quiksilver]

Dragon, keep the fruit in. Quik is overanalysing again.

Dude, he's 25% body fat and you want him eating lots of fruit daily?

 

[EFFORT]

Dude, he's 25% body fat and you want him eating lots of fruit daily?

hes no where near 25% bf in those pics he posted

 

[Warboss Alex]

Dude, he's 25% body fat and you want him eating lots of fruit daily?

if you think http://i34.tinypic.com/nvs4n7.jpg is 25% then I dread to think what my bf%'d be in your book.

He wants to get up to 190 and is playing a lot of sport. What the hell's so bad about eating fruit for his carbs?

those blanket statements you've seen posted here or on various other forums I presume ("fructose is easily converted to bodyfat" - thus leading to the conclusion that fruit makes you fat) are at best situational and at worst so far from reality they're on a different planet.

 

[DragonCow]

Tuesday: Played a few basketball pick up games for 2 hours.

Wednesday:

Incline BP: 2x5x140 Was hard.

Flat Dumbell Press: 10x50lbs each hand. It feels awkward doing more than 5 reps of anything now. Lotsa burn.

Shoulder Press: 1x10 1x7, 30 lbs each hand. My triceps were too tired to push past 7 on second set, the weights wouldn't come up to lockout anymore.

Dips: at BW 1x15, 1xfailure. Did around 10 on second set, don't remember exactly how many I was just pushing and not thinking.

At the end of the workout my triceps were really tired from all the pushing in different directions.

WA: Thanks, cutting out pasta and potatoes is hard enough on my energy levels, it would suck if I couldn't eat fruit.

 

[Warboss Alex]

it's normal for the triceps to give out, you are doing four pressing movements (which is counterproductive).

try doing something like this instead:

incline press 2 x 6
dips 2 x as many as you can do
skullcrusher 2 x 10
lateral raise 2 x 15

cutting out pasta and potatoes

why are you doing this?

 

[Quiksilver]

Diet (while avoiding starch)

Breakfast:
2 Bananas
8 Hard Boiled Eggs
2 fried eggs
Lots of Water, refuse to drink milk it makes me bloated
Multivitamin
9g of fishoil

Lunch:
2 Apples
2 Scoops of Whey
Random Veggies
Some type of meat depending on what is served in the cafeteria
9g of fish oil

Dinner:
Some source of meat, again depends on cafeteria
Fruit(Bananas/Apples/Oranges) amount depending on hunger level
Whey if there was no meat, it sucked, or wasn't enough
Multivitamin
9g of fish oil

Post Workout:
1 banana
2 Scoops of Whey

Pre Workout: (The plan is to lift a few hours after lunch, but if that doesn't workout)
2 Bananas

So you're saying for a guy in his situation--trying to lose some body fat--eating 9+ pieces of fruit daily is a good idea? I never said eliminate all fruits and carbs from his diet, I implied to be smart about consuming carbs when his goal is to lose body fat.

How is that overthinking things?

 

[Warboss Alex]

His goal is to be 190lbs, he's currently 169. Gaining 20lbs at his current activity levels will require more carbs than for others. He is fairly lean, plays sports and is 19 years old on top of that. Even if was going all out for fat loss I'd probably keep the fruit in.

I lost 20lbs over 3 months this summer and I ate fruit nearly every day and starches every other day (and I mixed carbs and fats too, naughty me ), but my activity levels warranted that. If I'd had a desk job and sat on my arse most of the week with my only activity being cardio and the gym, then no, I'd eat a lot less carbs and calories to lose fat.

Everything is situational. In his situation the dietary advice I posted is appropriate.

You are overthinking because you're thinking in terms of 'rules' (i.e. fructose is easily converted to bodyfat) which do not apply ALL the time. Every individual has their own rules - hence thinking must go out of the window and instead some deductive reasoning should be applied.

Your own situation warranted other 'rules', you applied them and were successful. It's the same here, only different rules.

 

[Quagmire911]

I lost 20lbs over 3 months this summer

Little ikkims


When I was in that warehouse 4 days a week my diet didn't really change apart from me eating more and I was still drinking. Got my abs back pretty fast. Then I stopped the warehouse...