Don't Try So Hard

[fastlife]

OK, if you're just starting out then, yeah, you will have to 'try.' You'll have to consciously integrate alpha behaviors; you'll probably, at various points (assuming you're taking action and not just mentally mastvrbating on SS), come across as too much of a jerk, too aggressive, too disinterested, too aloof and eventually...TOO HIGH VALUE.

Here you might be like, Fastlife, too high value? But women only fvck the highest value alpha and if I let my guard down and act like a normal, well-rounded human being then she'll monkey branch or cheat on me or...

But the truth is the value threshold women require to go home with you ISN'T ALL THAT HIGH. It's not. The value threshold to get a woman to talk to you, even when you're interrupting her conversation with her friends on their GNO ISN'T THAT HIGH. The amount of dominance you need to set yourself apart from other guys ISN'T THAT HIGH. The amount of indifference you need to set yourself apart from all the desperate orbiters in her phone ISN'T THAT HIGH.

In fact, there's not only a diminishing return on 'value' or 'ALPHA' or 'attraction,' but past a certain point (and that point might even be after sex!) pouring it on will be like rubbing salt in the wound of the girls ego--since she knows she couldn't tie you down anyway. If you're value's too high, girls will be b1tchy, they'll test you ("Oh, you're just a player" "You do this all the time" "The only thing you care about is sex"), and they'll reject you before you get a chance to reject them. They might get nervous and flake on that date. They might melt down and do some drastic sh1t if you've been seeing them for a while. They might even require you to chase them a little bit just to reassure them that they're on your level.

Just relax. Be honest with yourself. If you know you have value, all you really need to do is be in front of the girl. That's it. The convo doesn't have to be interesting. You don't have to be some badass. Just be yourself, don't question your instincts (humans were fvcking for a long time before language or logic or the development of the prefrontal cortext was even a thing), and lead.

 

[Konada]

Great post, my question is, how do you tell this from low interest? Does a girl who rejects your kiss on the first date with minimal kino a sure fire sign or low interest or does it convey something like you mentioned?

Girls recently have called me confident, cool on the date but from my experience it doesn't relate to my closing rate (instead, I've been rejected by these girls when initiating kino/going for the kiss)

 

[fastlife]

Great post, my question is, how do you tell this from low interest?

If you're meeting her for the first time, b1tchiness is a strong indicator that it's a value problem and not an interest problem. Low interest girls are usually the nicest & most inviting; or they're just cold & standoffish (in which case I keep talking until they engage or don't). All of my harshest rejections have been from girls on the borderline of what I find attractive--if I put in the effort to smooth things over, they usually open hard.

If you have her engaged already, you move locations. If she's still with you, she's interested. You move her again.

Does a girl who rejects your kiss on the first date with minimal kino a sure fire sign or low interest or does it convey something like you mentioned?

Stop initiating kisses. Move locations. I don't really do all that much kino. I mean I'm always touching girls--hand on small of back, turning her around corners, grabbing her arm for emphasis--but it's never something I think about doing. Eye contact is way more important. Something I like to do is to face her directly and put my hand on both of her shoulders and then push her away lol. If I can help it, she initiates the kiss and, even then, I don't want to engage her too much until I have her at least on our way to my car.

Girls recently have called me confident, cool on the date but from my experience it doesn't relate to my closing rate (instead, I've been rejected by these girls when initiating kino/going for the kiss)

Stop trying to kiss them and try to get them home. I know, I know. Sounds counter-intuitive. But if you're high value, then you're literally insulting her by not fvcking her (especially if she thinks that's the only value you have to her). But you should also be a guy who sex isn't a big deal for (fake it if you need to); it should be weird not to take her home (or to the car or wherever). You just need to create a reason for her to come to your house and an excuse for her to leave.

So it should be something like--during the date talk about your pet goldfish. Then at the end of the night say something like, "Ashley, I'd really like to take you home to meet my pet goldfish. I think he'd really like you...but you have to promise to be nice and you can only stay for a minute because I have to be up early tomorrow," while staring into her eyes. It doesn't have to be anything logical (in fact the less logical the better--and you don't even have to have a goldfish lol). If she says anything about sex, even that she isn't having it with you or she's not that type of girl, just say something like "Gross" or "Girl, you have dirty mind."

 

[fastlife]

Bump

 

[Doc Kas]

This thread deserves more attention. Fastlife, your perspective is refreshingly interesting. Happy to hear more.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Absolutely on board with the message here. There is a solid argument for not over-gaming and another for not getting stuck in one's own head, being led by the ego.

Rather, when we are achieved true value and self worth, we don't need to be ramming it down people's throats. Rather, we just wear it on our sleeves like a scout badge; we know it's there, everyone else can see it and we know what we've done to achieve it. But it's just there, for all to see.

Agreed that women really aren't as complicated as some think. I'm so many instances, rather than knowing what to do or say, a man actually just needs to know what not to do and say; which is actually pretty simple. Personally, I find myself doing a LOT of stripping back, of things (mistakes) I did previously; in comparison to actually relatively few new things that I do.

As far as value matching goes, it's good to be honest, especially with yourself and girls with lower value. It's fairer on everyone and will result in longer lasting connections and increased success, depending what a man wants. A man should always be aiming upward, but also be realistic. Girls will generally only date 1 SMV point beneath their own value at most. If you want higher value girls, increase your own value, but indeed don't rely too much on it.

Not enough is said for just going out and pursuing exactly what you want. When we look at it as simply as this, it's actually pretty easy.

 

[BeExcellent]

This is another really good thread about how to be. Not how to behave, although many will start there, but how to be, how to exist with others.

The value equation is relative. I'm a high value woman by many standards (almost all actually but I'm nearly 50 so I'm over the hill to most of you young guys AND I have children already just to be clear ). I NEVER disqualify myself to men of higher value than myself. I don't think I ever have. Women who disqualify themselves are low self esteem women or at the very least quite insecure. Neurotic or insecure women will act like witches because they are trying to over compensate and be "cool" when men approach. They think being witchy makes them cool somehow.

High self esteem women don't do this. They know they are attractive, they know they are going to get approached, and they are nice about it, accommodating, polite. Whether they like you or not. It's who they ARE.

As to @Konada and his question about how you tell low interest in you from her disqualifying herself from you because you have too high a value...you watch and see what she does. The way she behaves initially tells you about HER more than it tells you about how she is reacting to you.

I've been out with high value men who I really liked. I've been nervous. But I'm always chill, I know to be cool and chat and engage and let things flow. I don't do anything off-putting and I don't get flustered, although I'm fully myself. I don't worry about whether he likes me. Of COURSE he likes me...he's there talking to me and interacting with me. His actions will tell me soon enough just what his intentions are...so I wait and see where he is trying to take the interaction...and I encourage him in subtle ways and create opportunities for him if I like him. I've seen high value men fumble over how to act, what to say, I've noticed that they are nervous around me. I think to myself, 'OK good. He is a little nervous too... he cares what I think...he cares how this is going.'

No woman who likes you is going to blow you off because you are nervous or because you stumble about a bit. Rather she will find it charming. She may even tell you so.

From a woman's prospective if I go on a date and the man escalates and maybe we kiss, but I refuse him going further...that's when I learn whether he likes me or whether he is after sex only. If I hear from him after such a date, he likes me...or at least likes me well enough to try again for sex. If sex was his main or only objective, he'll ghost. Works great. Guys who were after sex only move on from a date where they didn't get laid right away, and I screen out the sex only men. Perfect. No witchy behavior required.

The problem is there are many women who don't screen properly and they get used, or pump and dumped or whatever and then they may become witches upon initial meeting because they think every man is just after sex (because their experience has reinforced this through their history). These are also women who WILL give it up if they are handled well by a DJ and thus so much attention is focused on this website about "game". Good game CAN get you laid with these types of women. They are already looking for an excuse.

Haughty behavior or being a witch with a B is also sometimes someone who is not interested in you at all if you cannot draw her out/open her after a few exchanges.

There are also women who are nice to anyone who approaches. If a woman moves locations with you she is likely interested, but let's face it she may also be bored and you are the most social engagement she has had (or has been willing to tolerate) that evening or that day or whatever. So just keep doing what you are doing and encouraging the interaction. Read her actions. See what she does.

So keep in mind that her behavior tells you much more about her and how she interacts with people than it does about how you are doing with her, how you are affecting her, especially in the first few exchanges. Your ego will tell you it's all about you but the fact is it also has to do with her in the moment. Her mood, her options in the moment, how she feels that day, all sorts of things that are utterly independent of you.

Want to know who she is? Listen to what she says. She will tell you everything you need to know about her.

Want to know how she feels about you? Watch what she does.

Just keep in mind that what she does will also reflect her values and who she is no matter who you are. Bear in mind that women with high self worth behave differently than women with low self worth, but there are more women in the market place with low self worth so that is the pattern you'll see more often than not.

 

[Konada]

Great thread. As I look back on this, I realize not trying hard equates to following your instincts. As a result, I've been saying all the right stuff because it fits the situation and still sometimes fvck up but that rarely happens now.

There comes a point where game becomes an overcompensation and if you find that happening to you, its a pretty good indicator that you're ready to trust your own instincts and work on calibration instead. As much as I hate to use the terms: Alpha gets panties wet, beta keeps them coming back.

 

[Doc Kas]

Keep it coming guys. This is beautiful stuff!

 

[wifehunter]