Depends on how much it costs. The way I see it is that if she gets anything under $10, I pay for it because its not much. If its $10-30, I talk to her about paying for it and most of the time she agrees to pay. If its $30+ she is paying for it or else its nothing.
Don't pay for any of her stuff
- Thread starter Superman X
- Start date
Mmmm very interesting points from both sides of the table, and this debate-able subject wont ever end. But this day in age I find that most of the women I go out with want to pay for themselves, and sometimes even me...I've mostly gone out with asian women so far...dated three white chicks, two split the bill, the other expected me to pay for it all. But overall most women these days offer to split the bill and when they don't, they ARE gold-diggers.
You are talking to a DJ of two and a half years. I've tried it all and come to the conclusion that the best way to get girls IS to combine the best qualities of nice guys and jerks, as it says in the DJ Bible among other places. If you'd rather give money to the homeless people than to pay for your date then... good luck to you in the azzhole-land.
There are hoes and then there are quality girls. I can guarantee you that the quality girls won't go for you if you're not being a gentleman.
After spending 2 and a half years on this site, I've come to the conclusion that the biggest misjudgement that the newbies make is that they think that DJ's shouldn't be traditional in any way, they should always make up new ways to do things. Well quess what. This whole DJ thing is based on a literary character called "Don Juan". Cervantes wrote about him almost 400 years ago. During the times when "men were men", you know. If you have read Pook's texts from the Bible, you will notice that this "AFC'ness" that men posses is only common for the modernday men, it was not common for the men of the times of world wars... I mean, just compare the movies of the 50's and the 90's and the male characters in them! In the 50's the male is a DJ. He respects the woman but he also knows that he is a great guy - more especially: the "great catch"
That's where we DJ's are going as well. So being a DJ is very traditional. It's about being what men once were before the feminized culture screwed their head up. It's about being real men.
Here's a little excercise for you: go to the DJ Bible and find this text from there. Read that entire post and then come tell me that traditionality is bad!
One who would think this way has his own morals. I see no reason attacking people's ethics even though I don't think this way myself. All I can say is: a man who follows his ethics is truly a real man.
Wow, we a have a psychology PHD here! But I can't deny this. I indeed do think that it's not proper. I don't know if it's because of conditioning of the environment, I think it's more like my willingness of being a "real man" (I've always seen being a gentleman as a part of this "real man" thing).
Okay, I see 3 reasons:
1. My own reason (the most important reason to me):
He is a good host. Because bad hosts have bad personalities.
Simple as that. Let me elaborate: you see, in normal situations men should never pay for anything for the girls unless the girl was his gf. But a date is not a normal situation. In a date the man hosts. You know what I'm saying? It is his job to ensure that the woman won't be bored as hell during the date. It is his mission to ensure that the woman likes the date and perhaps in the future comes to another date with him (or optionally agrees to fvck with the guy). Anyway, the man is the one who basically always asks for the date, he decides where and when the date is held... u get the point. He is the host.
Think about it like this. Your friends calls and says: "wanna come to a dinner at my place?". Now you don't expect that you should PAY for that dinner, do you? Because your friend is the HOST. Dates work in a similiar way. Remember that once you've called for the date, the woman will expect you to pay for her. What happens when you don't pay?
That is a great disrespect towards the woman from you as a host. If the woman has any brains in her head, she will realize not to come on a second date with you. Either she thinks that you don't like her or more likely she will think that you are just cheap - and that you would ALSO be cheap when the two of you would call friends for dinner and demand money from them. She will see it as lack of character. A bad host is always seen as one with a bad personality. Then again, if you give money to a homeless guy but refuse to pay for a cheap date, she will either think that you're nuts or that you really REALLY don't like her. And believe me, when you show this kind of disrespect to women, only those with bad self-esteem stay with you.
This is also why buying for a date is not supplicating.
2. The DJ reason:
DJ'ing is about three C's. Yah, I know you've heard it all before: confidence, control and challenge. May I point out: control. What does this word truly mean?
"The man is in charge". The biological ideal of the DJ community. "Control" doesn't mean that man would completely control the woman, but it does mean that the man is strong. Strong in his beliefs, strong in his thoughts. Women fall for that, simple as that. There is no equality, it is always either the woman or the man controlling the relationship. For some reason, when women control the relationship, it tends to end - and usually it is the woman who ends it. Women WANT men to be in control.
And indeed, paying for the date is one part of being "in control" of the soon-to-start relationship. It DOES give you the upper hand for the future; you are the one who not only took the initiative to start the relationship but also paid for the start. You are now the one who has done the biggest part of the relationship, so the CONTROL automatically belongs to you (as long as you don't ruin it all by buying any friggin gifts or flowers or something equally hidious).
3. The society reason:
You already suggested of environment "conditioning" us to believe things. Well, you are right about something; the environment - i.e. all the people who live on this planet - have conditioned everybody to believe that a guy who completely refuses to pay for the date is an azzhole. Women seem to believe this, at least. Not based on what they say but based on what they DO. Because if she has ANY brain in her head (and luckily, the best of them do), she will dump a guy who she sees as an azzhole. And yes, the society, the evil, vicious society really DOES make them see guys who don't pay for the dates as complete azzholes. Conditioning is a sad thing, isn't it?
On the contrary: a girl who refuses is most definetly the kind of girl who refuses to be disrespected. She is one with good self-esteem, as an opposite to one who WOULD allow such actions from a man: a woman like that is the kind of woman who goes for the same jerk over and over again even though he abuses her. Altough she might be easy to get in bed, she is still a woman with deep self-esteem problems. I don't see why any DJ's would want to get women like that. Actually, the fact this kind of actions lure out the easy hoes with bad self-esteem could easily be reason number 4 in that list of reasons above.
And a special note to Johnnyboy: I don't "buy" women. I never buy them gifts until I've established a proper relationship with them. Paying for the date is not the same as trying to buy her love. To me, it is simply about being a good host. I'm there to get to know her and heck, it is such a fun trip that I'm even ready to pay a few dollars for it
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We don't have the same dating culture in the UK - it's much less formal here. In one way that's good, but in another it means there's no 'rules' to work with, you just gotta make sh*t up as you go.
If you're going for the 'dating machine' system of having a set date formula by which you spit out women by the dozen in search of the one that fits your criteria, then you need rules by which you conduct each date. One such rule would be that the man offers to pay. I think this rule has a few functions.
When you offer to pay she will probably react in one of these ways:
1) Says "Ok" with a smile and big eyes. High interest, but may expect you to pay for everything forevermore.
2) Says "Ok, but I'll pay for *some sh!t* later/next time". Hard to read - maybe just friends, maybe interested but doesn't want to be unequal to start with. Who can tell. Date her again to find out. I guess non-verbal cues are the key here - if she looks uncomfortable, then it's LJBF. If she seems happy you're paying then it's high interest, plus she's a giver, and stands on her own two feet (extra points!).
3) Says "No, I'll pay". Almost definitely not interested. Or, she's interested, but has control and power issues. Red Flag.
4) Says "Let's split it". Difficult to read. If she's interested but also very independent-minded, she may want you to pay but be uncomfortable with just saying 'Ok'. A bit of a test - you should offer to pay again. If she's adamant about splitting it, don't push it, no point arguing over it. Probably not very interested, but something might happen.
I think the older you get, the more likely it is that the woman will be happy to let you pay, and may want to let you pay (ie to be the male). It stops being a 'power' issue to her, like Icky said above.
As a man using a formal dating 'plan', offering to pay on the first date to get an idea of her interest and personality type is a useful thing. Especially if it's only a £2 cup of coffee.
bp1974
If you're going for the 'dating machine' system of having a set date formula by which you spit out women by the dozen in search of the one that fits your criteria, then you need rules by which you conduct each date. One such rule would be that the man offers to pay. I think this rule has a few functions.
When you offer to pay she will probably react in one of these ways:
1) Says "Ok" with a smile and big eyes. High interest, but may expect you to pay for everything forevermore.
2) Says "Ok, but I'll pay for *some sh!t* later/next time". Hard to read - maybe just friends, maybe interested but doesn't want to be unequal to start with. Who can tell. Date her again to find out. I guess non-verbal cues are the key here - if she looks uncomfortable, then it's LJBF. If she seems happy you're paying then it's high interest, plus she's a giver, and stands on her own two feet (extra points!).
3) Says "No, I'll pay". Almost definitely not interested. Or, she's interested, but has control and power issues. Red Flag.
4) Says "Let's split it". Difficult to read. If she's interested but also very independent-minded, she may want you to pay but be uncomfortable with just saying 'Ok'. A bit of a test - you should offer to pay again. If she's adamant about splitting it, don't push it, no point arguing over it. Probably not very interested, but something might happen.
I think the older you get, the more likely it is that the woman will be happy to let you pay, and may want to let you pay (ie to be the male). It stops being a 'power' issue to her, like Icky said above.
As a man using a formal dating 'plan', offering to pay on the first date to get an idea of her interest and personality type is a useful thing. Especially if it's only a £2 cup of coffee.
bp1974
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Helter Skelter
Master Don Juan
I always pay.
It's easier that way. If you let her pay she might think your a chump for not paying.
Besides I'm loaded. I've got to do something with it.
It's easier that way. If you let her pay she might think your a chump for not paying.
Besides I'm loaded. I've got to do something with it.
Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Mr. Delicious
Senior Don Juan
I do think thats immoral. Does that make me a bad person
Some of the girls I date prefer traditional guys.flashdance
Don Juan
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The only reason you wanted to pay your own way was so that you didnt "owe" him anything? How about at least offering to pay or chip in because its polite and fair?
Poor Marc. It was platonic AND he got to pay your way. Maybe you just tell yourself he enjoys paying so you dont feel as guilty about spending his cash. Guys (and girls) that are friends buy each other rounds all the time. Heres a little secret... your supposed to return the favor once in a while!
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iqqi
Master Don Juan
i tried, and he politely but firmly refused.
it's not like i never pay for anything. once i am in a relationship with someone i care about, I LOVE to treat, to please. to surprise. i get off on it. its a wonderful feeling, to give.
( . )( . )
Banned
good thread, but really it should be a no brainer, dont pay ANYTHING for her , and why in hell would she expect you too if she has the privelidge (spelling) of spending quality time with you anyway , your the prize and she knows it .
by all means pay for her AFTER you banged her, just like if shes a quality chick she will pay for you if your short.
if it wasnt so sad i would have laughed.
by all means pay for her AFTER you banged her, just like if shes a quality chick she will pay for you if your short.
dunno about the ultimate but its definately up there, with the rest of the pathetic sh!t, like a case i witnessed over the weekend, a mate of mine had to promise to his gf not to go out on the town while she was away in a different state for a week, she even rang him as soon as he finished work to check he was home, and this poor bastard picked up the phone with a big smile on his face and a "hello darling" every time.
if it wasnt so sad i would have laughed.
Oscar Wilde
Master Don Juan
And you count that as trying? A token gesture.
You insisted of course, because you don't want to screw over your friend every time you guys go out, didn't you?
Superman X
Banned
Anson...the days where being gentlemanly got you girls went out with the 50s. What worked then will not work now. And also, it DIDN'T even work then because girls waited until marriage to have sex.
Besides all these reasons, you simply shouldn't pay for a girl because its too much money. Even if buying her stuff did somehow make her attracted to you, given the choice between the money and the girl, I think we'd all pick the money every time.
Nope, theres just hoes. It doesn't really matter if a girl is "quality" as far as I'm concerned because I'm not interested in anything long-term. But if you are, why would you want a quality girl who drains your pockets? If you date a lot, and you pay for everything for your girl, you're going to be out 1-3 G's a year. Would you rather have the girl or the money? I think that we'd all rather have 1-3 G's than any girl.
You think being a real man is paying for all her stuff? Hot girls have hordes of AFCs ready to buy them anything and do their every bidding. This doesn't make you a real man, it merely combines you with her AFC-horde.
What the hell? Why should it be my job to entertain her in addition to paying for her? Instead, why shouldn't she entertain me?
Paying for the date does not give you the upper hand or give you control. It give you the lower hand. Tell me what exactly what part of the relationship you control by paying for dates. Also, if this is true, why doesn't her "best friend" who is in love with her and buys her everything have control over her?
Dude, don't you see something wrong with this? You're an ******* if you don't pay for her stuff, but is she an ******* if she doesn't pay for yours? If she calls you cheap you burn her for being a golddigger.
Besides all these reasons, you simply shouldn't pay for a girl because its too much money. Even if buying her stuff did somehow make her attracted to you, given the choice between the money and the girl, I think we'd all pick the money every time.
1. Being a gentleman means respecting your woman. That will ALWAYS bring you women as long as you respect yourself as well.
2. Only hoes? All I can say is that I disagree with that. I personally know many "quality women" as friends.
3. I'm not talking about buying "all her stuff". I'm talking about the first few dates.
4. You maybe misunderstood the "entertaining your date" thing. I can easily chooce the wrong words here, as English is only my second language which I have studied only for about 8 years or so. What I ment is simply that you act as a host in the date. You call it up, you decide the place and the time (at least if it's the first time) and you lead the convo that goes on on the date. More precisely: you lead the date. You are being the host there. That is what I ment.
5. I already told in my text what "upper hand" you get. You always get an upper hand when you completely take care of your date (not "take care" in an AFC-way, simply that you entirely control the date you're in). The upper hand of control. Paying for the date is part of that - when there is no feminist bullshyte or anything involved in it. I don't know about you, but I personally wouldn't want to be seen as a feminist, and I think it does lower the control you have over the situation.
6. If you are really short on cash, then I can understand if you want to split the bill on the second date and from there on. But demanding your girl to pay on the first date... I just don't understand it. It is not traditional but in my mind it is extremely feminist.
I can see what you mean, though, even though I myself wouldn't adopt it as part of my game. Also I've started to think that perhaps the American culture doesn't see this as bad as the Finnish culture which might be more traditional. I have understood after being to USA that the culture there is more feminist than in Europe.
2. Only hoes? All I can say is that I disagree with that. I personally know many "quality women" as friends.
3. I'm not talking about buying "all her stuff". I'm talking about the first few dates.
4. You maybe misunderstood the "entertaining your date" thing. I can easily chooce the wrong words here, as English is only my second language which I have studied only for about 8 years or so. What I ment is simply that you act as a host in the date. You call it up, you decide the place and the time (at least if it's the first time) and you lead the convo that goes on on the date. More precisely: you lead the date. You are being the host there. That is what I ment.
5. I already told in my text what "upper hand" you get. You always get an upper hand when you completely take care of your date (not "take care" in an AFC-way, simply that you entirely control the date you're in). The upper hand of control. Paying for the date is part of that - when there is no feminist bullshyte or anything involved in it. I don't know about you, but I personally wouldn't want to be seen as a feminist, and I think it does lower the control you have over the situation.
6. If you are really short on cash, then I can understand if you want to split the bill on the second date and from there on. But demanding your girl to pay on the first date... I just don't understand it. It is not traditional but in my mind it is extremely feminist.
I can see what you mean, though, even though I myself wouldn't adopt it as part of my game. Also I've started to think that perhaps the American culture doesn't see this as bad as the Finnish culture which might be more traditional. I have understood after being to USA that the culture there is more feminist than in Europe.
MoMurda
Banned
knocked off like a bag of crack..
What if the ho is broke anyway...next!
What if the ho is broke anyway...next!
Superman X
Banned
Anson...it may be a cultural difference, but I know that over here the girls look down on guys who buy them stuff. I see guys buying girls things for years, and they accept the gifts and still would never let the guy lay a hand on them.
Hahahahahaha. I don't know you but I would say there's a 95% chance that this is complete and total BS. I hear thing like this from girls who have masses of AFCs buying them everything all the time.