dont make her angry¬!

[logic1]

Good info Jonwon

Your opening post also rang home to me from a buddy of mine.

I agree with what you are trying to do with the website...... ect.

I would like to pass along some information that I did not see mentioned in the opening post. The law might vary from state to state.

First you need a laywer that knows his chit and cares about what happens instead of collecting the money. You did mention this and I think you know you were not represented in the best way.

Second in some states if a protective order or restaining order is filed against you you have x number of days to contest it if you feel it contains false information. If your lawyer knows what he is doing he can request an evidence hearing before the judge who signed the order. Its like a mini trial to determine if the information in the order is false.

What happens most of the time is the person who filed the order wont show up to defend it because the false statements cant be proved, which if done correctly makes it go away. Then charges could be filed against the said person for falseyfing a police report and contempt of court. Basically turning the tables on her.

This is just some info you can research and maybe add to your site for other people to know. The main ingrediant is to have a lawyer who is well versed in this sort of matter.

All orders of this nature can be contested if done the right way.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Lets see if I can interject a bit of balance into this without setting off too many landmines here. JONWON, from the time I was 12 until I was 28 (and certainly between 17 and 28) I could never have been accused of being the "marrying type." I lived a lifestyle that allowed me more than my fair share of sex partners and the LTRs I did engage in (as damaging as they were at times) were necessary experiences to make me the Man I am today. Never in my life did I WANT to be married and saddled with the liabilities marriage required. I'd had a taste of that with a very psychotic LTR in my 20s and I wanted nothing less than to be the best Rollo Tomassi I could be. I learned lessons that have been very beneficial to me in my marriage because of I was who I was then. Like you, I enjoyed all the benefits of being single, and I'll be the first to admit that many times I still envy that freedom from accountability. I can also tell you that, for whatever reason I were to find myself single and childless tomorrow I would never marry again in my life. Not because I don't love my life now, but because I've done it and experienced it; I know what marriage entails now, and even in the best of situations it is still a responsibility, liability and accountability that all too many men and women are completely unprepared for (including myself). Fewer still can adjust to it and mature from it these days. Also, I would never want to ruin my positive impression of marriage by trying to replicate it again with someone else.

Now, that said, I'm going to try to be as delicate as I can put this without it becoming a flame war between the marryers and the non-marryers. AZANON's experience is entirely different from yours because all he's ever known in his adult life has been marriage. He can wave the banner for marriage based on his own experience of marriage, but he can only speculate with regards to being single because he's never lived the lifestyle. He married at 21, and while I'm sure he can be the optomistic proponent of what he's known, you'll never speak the same language because you lack a common experience. He's drawing his conclusions of single life based on stories and friends he's seen around him.

Likewise, you're limited to your own experience being single and your own assessment of marriage comes from examples that you've been exposed to. You're limited by your understanding of what marriage entails, both positive and negative. Both sides of the coin have to necessarily validate their own viewpoints since one challenges the other. AZANON has little other choice than to endorse marriage because it validates a choice he made 15 years ago. You have to validate your own point of view because so few examples of a positive mature marriage are really available today to make a comparison of. Anything can become normal, especially when who we are depends on it.

You see, I don't believer there are marrying types and single types. I know people married for 13 years who completely reversed their way of living after a divorce. I also know consumate players who I never thought would settle down and start a family and there they are. It's really more about circumstance, conditions, choices that make us husbands or wives or players or hores, boyfriends or girlfriends.

 

[Latinoman]

Lets see if I can interject a bit of balance into this without setting off too many landmines here. JONWON, from the time I was 12 until I was 28 (and certainly between 17 and 28) I could never have been accused of being the "marrying type." I lived a lifestyle that allowed me more than my fair share of sex partners and the LTRs I did engage in (as damaging as they were at times) were necessary experiences to make me the Man I am today. Never in my life did I WANT to be married and saddled with the liabilities marriage required. I'd had a taste of that with a very psychotic LTR in my 20s and I wanted nothing less than to be the best Rollo Tomassi I could be. I learned lessons that have been very beneficial to me in my marriage because of I was who I was then. Like you, I enjoyed all the benefits of being single, and I'll be the first to admit that many times I still envy that freedom from accountability. I can also tell you that, for whatever reason I were to find myself single and childless tomorrow I would never marry again in my life. Not because I don't love my life now, but because I've done it and experienced it; I know what marriage entails now, and even in the best of situations it is still a responsibility, liability and accountability that all too many men and women are completely unprepared for (including myself). Fewer still can adjust to it and mature from it these days. Also, I would never want to ruin my positive impression of marriage by trying to replicate it again with someone else.

Now, that said, I'm going to try to be as delicate as I can put this without it becoming a flame war between the marryers and the non-marryers. AZANON's experience is entirely different from yours because all he's ever known in his adult life has been marriage. He can wave the banner for marriage based on his own experience of marriage, but he can only speculate with regards to being single because he's never lived the lifestyle. He married at 21, and while I'm sure he can be the optomistic proponent of what he's known, you'll never speak the same language because you lack a common experience. He's drawing his conclusions of single life based on stories and friends he's seen around him.

Likewise, you're limited to your own experience being single and your own assessment of marriage comes from examples that you've been exposed to. You're limited by your understanding of what marriage entails, both positive and negative. Both sides of the coin have to necessarily validate their own viewpoints since one challenges the other. AZANON has little other choice than to endorse marriage because it validates a choice he made 15 years ago. You have to validate your own point of view because so few examples of a positive mature marriage are really available today to make a comparison of. Anything can become normal, especially when who we are depends on it.

You see, I don't believer there are marrying types and single types. I know people married for 13 years who completely reversed their way of living after a divorce. I also know consumate players who I never thought would settle down and start a family and there they are. It's really more about circumstance, conditions, choices that make us husbands or wives or players or hores, boyfriends or girlfriends.

I agree 100%.

 

[jonwon]

Lets see if I can interject a bit of balance into this without setting off too many landmines here. JONWON, from the time I was 12 until I was 28 (and certainly between 17 and 28) I could never have been accused of being the "marrying type." I lived a lifestyle that allowed me more than my fair share of sex partners and the LTRs I did engage in (as damaging as they were at times) were necessary experiences to make me the Man I am today. Never in my life did I WANT to be married and saddled with the liabilities marriage required. I'd had a taste of that with a very psychotic LTR in my 20s and I wanted nothing less than to be the best Rollo Tomassi I could be. I learned lessons that have been very beneficial to me in my marriage because of I was who I was then. Like you, I enjoyed all the benefits of being single, and I'll be the first to admit that many times I still envy that freedom from accountability. I can also tell you that, for whatever reason I were to find myself single and childless tomorrow I would never marry again in my life. Not because I don't love my life now, but because I've done it and experienced it; I know what marriage entails now, and even in the best of situations it is still a responsibility, liability and accountability that all too many men and women are completely unprepared for (including myself). Fewer still can adjust to it and mature from it these days. Also, I would never want to ruin my positive impression of marriage by trying to replicate it again with someone else.

Now, that said, I'm going to try to be as delicate as I can put this without it becoming a flame war between the marryers and the non-marryers. AZANON's experience is entirely different from yours because all he's ever known in his adult life has been marriage. He can wave the banner for marriage based on his own experience of marriage, but he can only speculate with regards to being single because he's never lived the lifestyle. He married at 21, and while I'm sure he can be the optomistic proponent of what he's known, you'll never speak the same language because you lack a common experience. He's drawing his conclusions of single life based on stories and friends he's seen around him.

Likewise, you're limited to your own experience being single and your own assessment of marriage comes from examples that you've been exposed to. You're limited by your understanding of what marriage entails, both positive and negative. Both sides of the coin have to necessarily validate their own viewpoints since one challenges the other. AZANON has little other choice than to endorse marriage because it validates a choice he made 15 years ago. You have to validate your own point of view because so few examples of a positive mature marriage are really available today to make a comparison of. Anything can become normal, especially when who we are depends on it.

You see, I don't believer there are marrying types and single types. I know people married for 13 years who completely reversed their way of living after a divorce. I also know consumate players who I never thought would settle down and start a family and there they are. It's really more about circumstance, conditions, choices that make us husbands or wives or players or hores, boyfriends or girlfriends.

No land mines at all.

This is what i have been trying to say.

two different worlds, both has right has each other.

The only gripe i have is social normality, means the un-married guy is some sort of social freak, something i hope in time is dropped, only in the western culture this is present.

I could move to some countries and have 2+ wifes.

Anyway nice reply.

 

[Latinoman]

I'm the owner of the site mentioned in the first post of this thread, DontMakeHerMad.com, in which I told the story of how I was falsely accused. I have read the subsequent discussion, and wanted to comment on something that particularly struck me.

Someone said that if you're on top of your game as a man, you'll be the master of your world, affecting your reality. I understand the sentiment, and do consider it accurate to a point. You can influence others by your attitude and life decisions. However, that doesn't mean you're in control of every situation; to assume you are is is simply naive.

I can't tell you how many times I have wondered whether acting in a different way to my Ex might have prevented her from becoming enraged enough to manipulate the judicial system. It's been years now. I now look back and remember all the times I've been subjected by her to so much pain, about 95 percent of it emotional (and probably more painful to me than physical pain). It would go in a cycle. She would be extremely verbally/emotionally/mentally abusive, then things would calm down and she'd apologize (which cost her nothing, but made me relieved that the infliction of pain was temporarily subsiding). A few weeks of relative calm would go by, and then it would start up again, almost every 3 weeks. I have come to believe that my Ex was bi-polar, but also was terrified of me leaving her (and thus the reason for the abuse); the thought of her being left alone (I was the provider) must have made her feel powerless. To regain the lost feeling of self-determination, she projected her pain onto those around her -- her father, her son from a previous marriage, me, even her friends. Never would she admit that she had a fundamental problem.

The point of the above paragraph is that some people are so deeply set in their ways and in their thinking that you just can't stop them from engaging in their own destructive behaviors. No matter how much you are a master of your life, it's better to simply avoid these types rather than confront them.

And yet I have learned life lessons -- mainly about what constitutes true masculinity. By this I mean that a man is truly a man when he refuses to sacrifice his better judgment. Both men and women (but especially women) will use the threat of belittling a man, imposing social/familial isolation, questioning a man's sexuality (as a weapon against him), questioning a man's virility, and any number of other ways of playing upon a man's fears. These are known as shaming tactics. A common shaming tactic is for women to mock men as "afraid" of commitment because he will not risk his livelihood/years/happiness/autonomy for a woman (who chiefly benefits from such "commitment" rather than him). In every sense that a man is a man, he demonstrates that he will not be goaded, manipulated, shamed, cowed, or otherwise intimidated into making a decision that goes against his interests.

This is what I've learned from my whole experience. In practical terms, this means I am now far more cautious about who I become romantically involved with. But it also makes me a much better student of subtle cues in a woman's behavior that reveal her nature. I'm a men's rights activist (MRA) in the political realm, and yet I have learned a lot from some within the seduction community. There is a psychological edge that you can gain from paying attention to PUA teachings, and I've grown from that.

Nevertheless, the need for a Web site like mine (which advocates surveillance for men in abusive relationships) remains valid, in my opinion. The purpose of such tactics is to help men to effectively and safely exit such nightmares, without compromising their freedom/fatherhood/reputation/livelihood. As Sun Tsu wrote, all warfare is based on deception, and you must act before circumstances act upon you.

This is my first post here. It's nice to meet you all.

John Dias...the simple way to avoid this situation is by choosing the correct woman as your wife. Plain and simple.

By the way, I read your story and I want to say I am VERY sorry.

 

[jophil28]

Being "on top of your game " ..... Being a mature DJ and being "the best man you can be' guarantees NOTHING when it comes to choosing the right woman. Sure, you do increase your chances of making a better selection but your abiluity to see cunning agendas in personalty disordered women is still next to zero . Many a good man has been played his whole life by his wife.

There is a significant percentage of the female population with BPD, HPD and a variety of other blended whacko stuff going on. No amount of "being a man" is going to make a crazy women into a hot housewife.
Read Richard Skerritt to open your eyes to how women abuse and deceive men who love them..

 

[azanon]

Now, that said, I'm going to try to be as delicate as I can put this without it becoming a flame war between the marryers and the non-marryers. AZANON's experience is entirely different from yours because all he's ever known in his adult life has been marriage. He can wave the banner for marriage based on his own experience of marriage, but he can only speculate with regards to being single because he's never lived the lifestyle. He married at 21, and while I'm sure he can be the optomistic proponent of what he's known, you'll never speak the same language because you lack a common experience. He's drawing his conclusions of single life based on stories and friends he's seen around him.

I married my senior year of college. I'm relatively sure I was single prior to then which included dating many women. How many years of single life constitutes enough to have a viewpoint on it? The military told me I was an adult and a trained killer at 18. And sense when can someone not speak intellectually on any topic that they haven't necessarily actually engaged in anyway? I have a viewpoint on abortion, but I'm quite sure I've never had one.

Again, we realize RT that you think the way you did it constitutes statistical perfection. You married at 27, and conveniently stated that marrying prior to 27 was marrying too soon. We realize that to whatever extent someone deviates from what you do is the extent someone errors. Thus, there's no need to keep restating that.

.......Both sides of the coin have to necessarily validate their own viewpoints since one challenges the other. AZANON has little other choice than to endorse marriage because it validates a choice he made 15 years ago. You have to validate your own point of view because so few examples of a positive mature marriage are really available today to make a comparison of. Anything can become normal, especially when who we are depends on it.

I've told you before and I'll tell you again. If my marriage wasn't working and/or I consider it a mistake, I'd say so. These boards are anonymous. What would I have to lose?

You see, I don't believer there are marrying types and single types.

For what its worth, I disagree for the most part.

..................

jonwon, I couldn't even read that mess of a response you gave. Looks like you pasted some of my post in with yours, and maybe consider using more than 2 sentences for paragraphs so its not so difficult to read.

 

[STR8UP]

I married my senior year of college. I'm relatively sure I was single prior to then which included dating many women. How many years of single life constitutes enough to have a viewpoint on it?

You were a kid who was dating other kids.

How is it possible to have perspective on being single if you never even experienced it as an adult?

 

[Latinoman]

You were a kid who was dating other kids.

How is it possible to have perspective on being single if you never even experienced it as an adult?

I agree

 

[jonwon]

I married my senior year of college. I'm relatively sure I was single prior to then which included dating many women. How many years of single life constitutes enough to have a viewpoint on it? The military told me I was an adult and a trained killer at 18. And sense when can someone not speak intellectually on any topic that they haven't necessarily actually engaged in anyway? I have a viewpoint on abortion, but I'm quite sure I've never had one.

Again, we realize RT that you think the way you did it constitutes statistical perfection. You married at 27, and conveniently stated that marrying prior to 27 was marrying too soon. We realize that to whatever extent someone deviates from what you do is the extent someone errors. Thus, there's no need to keep restating that.



I've told you before and I'll tell you again. If my marriage wasn't working and/or I consider it a mistake, I'd say so. These boards are anonymous. What would I have to lose?



For what its worth, I disagree for the most part.

..................

jonwon, I couldn't even read that mess of a response you gave. Looks like you pasted some of my post in with yours, and maybe consider using more than 2 sentences for paragraphs so its not so difficult to read.

The reply is perfectly readable, anyway i prefer to leave it there.

Anyway, not sure why your so effected by this, i ment no offence, if you are offended i apologise.

I would have made the same replies to any guy on here.

My views are conflicting, but that is where i would like to leave it.

Welcome john, you should stick around, this place is more then a seduction forum.

Anyway what happend to Fred X, i liked him, he liked to rant, but he made great reading.

Eternal Batchelor was a pritty dam good to read too.

 

[Last Man Standing]

As for modern Canadian/American women - they're not marriage material! A man can marry many women but a woman cannot marry many men!!

My goal is to marry seven virgins - I better get started!

 

[mintxx]

sweet RT drives a Hilux I just knew it
sorry to be infantile it just comes out sometimes
on topic: some or perhaps most women will do whatever the system lets them to exploit the opposite sex. just as will some or perhaps most men. and other people will rationalise and wonder why they get bent over by these people. don't touch any of em

 

[jonwon]

sweet RT drives a Hilux I just knew it
sorry to be infantile it just comes out sometimes
on topic: some or perhaps most women will do whatever the system lets them to exploit the opposite sex. just as will some or perhaps most men. and other people will rationalise and wonder why they get bent over by these people. don't touch any of em

Actually men are 'discouraged' where has women seem to be 'encouraged'.

There is a difference.

Media
Law
Social pressures

Make the men out to be the 'bad guy' when he decides to up and leave, or depending on circumstances he is a wise guy or he made a good choice, only if his torment is laid to bare and is viewable.

The women on the other hand regardless, she is 'liberated', she has backing and is supported, in a lot of cases.

I watched the abuse for children advert last night.

You know what i saw?

I saw a kid in her room, the advert was in balck and white asking for donations and telling the public to speak out for child abuse, then it advert swung to a colour picture of the girl loved up in her mothers arms, wrapped around her in a protective shell.

So we are led to believe the Father is the abuser.

Women abuse kids too, but adverts always paint the MAN to be the Villian.

So before we assume men and women are equal, i think you need to take the rose tinted specs off and go to the nearest police officer and say 'that women on the train just flashed at me' see how far you get.

on the other hand if a random women does it for YOU, you better believe that copper will be in your face.

This is reality not fiction.

Men are has a normaility treated has the 'abuser' where has women are the 'victim', and the system works to keep that biased going.

Fuc* that cra*

I aint sacrificing my dominent personality and masculine traits i had to bring out, due to some law state stating i have to comply with some women's demands through state controlled fear, i have done nothing wrong, to be treated like an abuser for simply being male is fuc*ing wrong in any social structure.

Now sorry if this is too harsh, but open the papers e.t.c

just a month or two ago in the UK a JUDGE was in court becouse some SKANK said he flashed at her, it was in the papers national.

this SKANK gets off scot free.

Try doing this the other way around.

Yes there was uproar, but its things like this that fuc* men off and make us think twice about getting involved with women when there treated by a AFC institution that paints them in a rosy light and at the same time paints men to be abusive ape's. Its insulting, its depressing and its a product of the country you live in.

do you think boards like this exist in other countries?

it is only the:

UK
USA
Australia

Where stuff like this is prominent because there is SOMETHING WRONG.

Edit*

When i asked about my 'rights' has a man when it came to divorce, i phoned a solicitor.

i left my partner, now this was a time when she was piss**, so she said she was going to divorce me over unreasonable behaviour.

I was anoyed that she could make out to be i was to blame, so i spoke to this solicitor and he told me:

that is the most common reason for divorce and i would advice you to just let her divorce you on those grounds.

Unreasonable behaviour, means jack shi*, you dont even have to prove it, to a degree, you can get a decree nessa (think it's called that).

it is easier to get divorced then married in the western sphere, where is the incentive to keep it going, it has been reduced to nothing more then a playground romance, with costs for the yard bully thrown in.

A total joke.

Also, one last edit.

dont you think its fuc*ed up has if there are kids involved they are automaticly gone to the wife, unless fighted, in most cases, even then they have a high chance of going to the women.

it is clear in the original post i made, the women has some sever mental issues, it's the stupid arse* system that would hand the kids over to a women has disfunctional as the one presented.

Also i am so god dam mother fuc8ing happy i never had children to my EX, i dread to think if the poor sod's would have her has a mother 24/7 whislt i get custody if i am lucky once a weekend.

The stress of that would have been to much to bear especcially considering some of the fuc*ed up things i endured, including violance.

The proof i would have to provide, where has she only has to state i was the one with the issues, enjoy your potential bullet to the head.

What a messed up social structure we have going.

this is a large % why i dont want children, if it turns out the women i am invloved with has some mental issues (depression, Bpid e.t.c) this is unearthed after the Hook period, i would not be able to simply walk and leave them in there care.

and i fully believe there are alot of messed up Biped Women out there, this forum is testiment to the poor sods who frequent them on average rather a lot.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I married my senior year of college. I'm relatively sure I was single prior to then which included dating many women. How many years of single life constitutes enough to have a viewpoint on it? The military told me I was an adult and a trained killer at 18.

Sorry, I'm confused. How is it you came to be a trained killer in the military at 18 and a married senior in college at 21? Did you drop out of high school to enlist early at 16? Can you do that? How long was your enlistment? Where were you deployed?

And sense when can someone not speak intellectually on any topic that they haven't necessarily actually engaged in anyway? I have a viewpoint on abortion, but I'm quite sure I've never had one.

Yes, so what does that say about your viewpoint on abortion in comparison with a woman who's had one, or a doctor who's performed one?

BTW, I married at 28, for the record.

sweet RT drives a Hilux I just knew it

Heheh,..

 

[azanon]

The reply is perfectly readable, anyway i prefer to leave it there.

Anyway, not sure why your so effected by this, i ment no offence, if you are offended i apologise.

I would have made the same replies to any guy on here.

My views are conflicting, but that is where i would like to leave it.

Welcome john, you should stick around, this place is more then a seduction forum.

Anyway what happend to Fred X, i liked him, he liked to rant, but he made great reading.

Eternal Batchelor was a pritty dam good to read too.

I'm assuming this is a joke, so i'll laugh.

 

[azanon]

Sorry, I'm confused. How is it you came to be a trained killer in the military at 18 and a married senior in college at 21? Did you drop out of high school to enlist early at 16? Can you do that? How long was your enlistment? Where were you deployed?

An upperclassman at a Service Academy (not saying which academy) told me and my squadron that after I earned my 4th class bars which was after I completed basic training, or BCT as they call it there. Whether he was right or wrong about that is open to debate, but like anyone who's been through that whereever you go through basic, you do have both the mind and body for killing afterwards. Its far more the mind than body though, and I could write a whole new thread on that. Anyway, I didn't like the school and life there (after basic) so I dropped out by October. I entered a "regular" college the following spring and managed to "catch up" going summers and graduated in 3 1/2 years not counting the wasted semester at the military academy I attended.

I don't regret dropping out, by the way. If I made any mistake, it was going in the first place. Its definitely not a place for everyone; or most people even.

Yes, so what does that say about your viewpoint on abortion in comparison with a woman who's had one, or a doctor who's performed one?

First hand experience counts for something; not taking anything away from it. But its not everything. But come on; how hard is it really to imagine what single life is like? I'm sure it involves some of the same sorts of things I did for a brief period in college.

This is mostly besides the main point I had a beef with you over; that being your implication that I'm only supporting marriage because I AM married, and your implication that I wouldn't be honest about it if it weren't going well. I can only ask you and everyone else to believe me when I say if I wasn't happy with my marriage, I'd say so. Maybe I shouldn't believe you when you suggest your marriage is great?

BTW, I married at 28, for the record.

Fine. You said 27 before. I'm too lazy to go find the thread to link it.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Jonwon's last post speaks many truths. experienced by many men!!

 

[ducaro]

A very healthy way to approach it.

It always and i mean always starts and ends with 'self', as long has we learn and develop we can strive for something better.

Your ideals are very healthy it is clear not many adopt them, due to many vairables:

wrong programming.
Blind sided.
Wrong impressions.
Bad advice.
e.t.c

I think it is important to look at both sides of the fence so one can see with eyes open and be ready for more eventualities.

Granted one can get swolled up with the negative or the positive, there exists extremes, the healthy find the balance, imo.

one of the reasons i remain single is i cant find that, but someday i hope i do, but then again, do i really care anymore

Its not important either way, unless ofc it ispart of your values.

Marriage is no longer apart of mine, the ratio i see is far lower then 10%, but then again maybe i need to get out more?

Out of all the girls i have seen over the course of the last two years, none and i mean none reached the high values i have developed due to wading through cra*. Are my values too high? possibly!

Anyway, well done to any man who manages to make the marriage thing and LTR successful and a happy one,.

Sadly the older i get the more i think the reality is simply fantasy and is sadly supported by the world around me too.

Cynical? maybe, or simply being truthful of what is around me.

I cant see myself getting married or hitched ever again!

A sad man with poor ideals around women?

possibly, but i enjoy my single life and the more i live the less i want to embrace marriage.

Marriage can be a good thing and so can single life, both are equal, both can be poor its what we make it, the difference is in marriage your options are limited, with being single my options are huge.

I am anti-marriage, i was not, but too many things around that has made me this way, pulled from a snow white fantasy ideal into the cold sharp sting of reality that i slowley morphed to my advantage, now i live like a Batcholer and i plan to never look back.

I have no desire for children either.

'Love' i have no belief in that term, unless it is applied to family, un-coditional is something you get from you parents, your brothers, e.t.c. In a relationship i have seen and witnessed this change like the wind, it is open to expectations of the other, granted this is true for the family unit, but the bonds on them are normally so tight it would take something massive to break them, relationship 'love' from what i see gathers rust, it seems to decay over time, where as family 'love' is there always the same, never changing.

Yes this maybe a bad map or it maybe a truth map, but seeing every marriage break down except for my parents and even that is not so hot, that institution i have little 'faith' in and i think if a women truly ;respects' her man marriage would not be forced by her at all, this is just my belief.

damn. another sosuaver steals my words :trouble: