Doing some mental gymnastics

[goodfoot]

This line of thought started with backbreaker's thread "The Great Irony of the SMV theory".

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=207917

On a relationship forum I frequent, there are a few resident dejected guys who are always complaining about not attracting women. One in particular said that he was told to go after women "in his league". He felt he was doing that now and still had no success. He was looking purely at looks; they were both overweight. Between that thread and Backbreaker's thread about his two friends who aren't doing too well either I came to a realization.

I think male SMV is purely a function of the level of women one can attract. If you consistently pull female 8's, you are an 8 regardless of how ugly you may be. Pretty much every girlfriend I've had, I've heard it said that they are out of my league. It's possible to grab someone out of your league once or twice, but once a trend starts I think you get a pretty good picture of where you stand as far as your SMV.

For the most part women's SMV is looks-based. However, it is not nearly so cut and dry with men. Studies have shown that women will find the same man more attractive if they are told he is rich. Women's SMV is subjective and men's SMV is even more subjective. It is very difficult to simply put a number on it. There are also so many different variables such as region that can muddy things even more.

 

[Warrior74]

The mental gymnastics and "debate" is by those who aren't in the field doing any work.

I just turned 39 and I have been feeling too old, too broke, too fat and too ugly to pull anything. I went out for my birthday and ended up number closing a 23 year old, who I will rank as bangable and girlfriend material as far as looks go. I just didn't give a ****, had fun and went for it. I knew the next day I would go back to my broke ass hand to mouth existence, but tonight I was gonna be the man. It was good to know I can still meet a random girl in a bar, have a great time, get her number and make out with her. Now imagine if I would have thought "oh I can't attract women", it's a self fufilling prophecy.

 

[goodfoot]

I currently have more number than I know what to do with and I usually only have one day available to date, so I'm not in the field so much these days. I agree with everything you said. On a personal level, I never look at a woman and disqualify myself. Any one interaction could be that outlier where you pull about your SMV. On a general level, I think it is good to think about these things. As men, I think we have a desire to understand how the world works. I think a some of the talks here about the state of male-female relations comes from that desire. I don't think it is 100% about sex.

 

[zekko]

I think male SMV is purely a function of the level of women one can attract. If you consistently pull female 8's, you are an 8 regardless of how ugly you may be.

That makes complete sense, and I agree with you. If your personality or whatever is such that it makes up for your looks and you can pull 8s, for all practical purposes you are an 8. Of course, people will object to this type of thinking because your basing your value on external factors, which is a huge no no in "inner game".

The mental gymnastics and "debate" is by those who aren't in the field doing any work.

I've been living with my girlfriend for 10 years, so I haven't been out "in the field" for awhile. But I'm also 52 years old, and I base my comments on my experiences when I was out in the field, plus I know a lot of younger people today and I observe what they're going through.

It was good to know I can still meet a random girl in a bar, have a great time, get her number and make out with her. Now imagine if I would have thought "oh I can't attract women", it's a self fufilling prophecy.

Right, too many guys defeat themselves before they even start.

On a general level, I think it is good to think about these things. As men, I think we have a desire to understand how the world works. I think a some of the talks here about the state of male-female relations comes from that desire. I don't think it is 100% about sex.

That definitely describes me. I find the study of attraction and how it works fascinating. Plus I not only want to understand the world and how it works, but what my place in it is exactly. That's something that's always confused me a bit. I find my SMV seems to vary over time. Maybe it goes down if I have a bad haircut or whatever.

One thing I've heard is that a girl's SMV tends to be static, while a male's is changing all the time. A misstep in the mating dance can bring it down, while an impressive display (like being well dressed, for example) can bring it up.