Does the 2 strikes rule still apply even if she counter offers twice?

[pete101]

in reference to my cancelled date (i picked her up in person, not online) on sunday 2 hours before we were suppose to meet (but she counter offered):

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=189880

she cancelled again today after i texted her where we were going exactly so she knew what to wear. i sent this at midday. tbh i sense utter flakey behavior from her from the beginning, just her general talking non-stop attention seeking, she just seems like she'd be an insecure flake. i know i shouldn't have text her to let her know where we're going, cos it gives her an out to cancel.. but at the same time i wasnt gona waste a journey down just to be stood up.

i sent 'just to let you know we're going to x bar in y place, wanted to let u know where we're going exactly so you know what to wear, i know you girls can get fussy about that stuff '

she's in fashion industry so during the first convo we talked a little about that and knows i know a thing or two.

she sent: this sounds lovely! im not well today, still at hone and unsure if i will go to my appointments. i would love to feel my best to go out, so i have a suggestion to meet thursday? i feel awkward to keep changing!'

someone translate this for me.. it just sounds like attention seeking BS wanting me to keep chasing and agreeing a time cos she feels validated. The 2 strike rule says you give her 2 chances then cut contact.. but does this still apply when she counter offers with another day both times?

she may well be sick, i doubt she's going to cancel on clients if she's ill.. it is freezing here at the moment and flu season but regardless.. why is it that i had to text her 1st then she cancels?

sunday was unacceptable, 1 hour before we're suppose to meet, now today this. it just adds up to a major attention seeking flake. is it wise for me to address this in the response?

i.e. 'hope you're not going to make a habit of this.. doesn't set a good precedent for the future. i'll make other drink plans tonight. im busy tomorrow and fri so thurs is good, make it 8pm at x place. should give u 2 days to decide what to wear for me haha.. as amazing as your legs will look, i think it's too cold for a designer dress! Well.. unless of course you're making it up to me for cancelling twice. haha. hope you feel better. x'

i feel like i need to address the flaking immediately and call her out on it but dont sound annoyed or angry like i did on sunday, then communicate it's fine and i'll make other drink plans (might stem some jealousy on her part cos if im going for a drink with her, she'll assume im going drinking with another girl) then indicate she needs to make it up to me for cancelling by wearing a designer dress i like. have i overemphasised the cancelling part and will sound needy or clingy?

i haven't sent it yet it's just i need to address this cancelling issue as it's not acceptable, i may even want to be premedidated and think look if she's sick today she's probably gona be sick on thurs and will cancel again.. should i just push the time to sunday so she has no more BS excuse?

i can envisage she'll still be ill on thurs (it's only 2 days) and dont want to deal with another counter offer.. like u say, if she wants to see you she'll come out regardless.

 

[pete101]

i'm thinking cos she cancelled on sun, and semi offered mon but i said i was busy then offered tues and i accepted, if i accept thurs then i'll look too available, maybe i should offer fri or sat instead? esp if she's ill, give her more time to get better and no excuses for cancelling again.

 

[Duracell_Bunny]

i.e. 'dont keep changing it then! haha. i'll make other drink plans tonight. im busy tomorrow and fri so thurs is good, make it 8pm at x place. should give u 2 days to decide what to wear for me haha.. as amazing as your legs will look, i think it's too cold for a designer dress! Well.. unless of course you're making it up to me for cancelling again. haha. hope you feel better. x'

Too much thought on this text sir - keep it to the point.

A short text like "Sunday is better, lets do 8pm at place?" is what I would send.

Just be wary that you could be falling into a trap of doing things on her terms if you agree to both of her counter offers.

She doesn't need to know about your other plans. Trying to call her out and make her jelous is too much effort.

If you want to make her worry (bad example with this client, but lets say a chick with raised interest), the best thing to do is not to mention anything at all.

 

[pete101]

Too much thought on this text sir - keep it to the point.

A short text like "Sunday is better, lets do 8pm at place?" is what I would send.

Just be wary that you could be falling into a trap of doing things on her terms if you agree to both of her counter offers.

She doesn't need to know about your other plans. Trying to call her out and make her jelous is too much effort.

If you want to make her worry (bad example with this client, but lets say a chick with raised interest), the best thing to do is not to mention anything at all.

but by saying nothing it doesn't imply there's other girls?

esp if our convo on the phone on sunday was me annoyed that she was cancelling last min.. i just 'sound' as if i dont have options. tbh her offer of monday i rejected and then she offered tues (tho actually she said 'well let's text tomorrow and decide and i said 'lets sort it now otherwise i'll have plans by then'

i think you're right though.. maybe i should just go for Friday or Sunday. Sunday is so far in advance.

and i dont want to accept it on her terms.

 

[Htienvu]

Why don't you just stop offering and take the attention away from her. If she wants to see you that bad she will see that her behavior is unacceptable and will try to get with you.

 

[Duracell_Bunny]

Taking out all of the factors in this situation, if you mention what you are doing the thought won't even cross the chicks mind of:

"I wonder what he's doing tonight"

Wether it involves other ladies does not matter. Let her ponder on that question.

 

[pete101]

My responses are in bold.

you say to go if i'm free.. the point is I AM FREE i always am.. i mean i could go do something else like go gym or whatever but at the end of the day i need practise on dates esp getting the 1st one out the way so i can get sex on the 2nd. you say go, but u have to take into consideration that i accepted her tuesday offer on sunday and now she's offering thurs, i should do it on my terms, not hers every time. I always look too available, i dont have enough plates to act busy.

why is it a bad idea to address the flaking?

if i make a point of it, it makes her know that im making a big deal out of it and it's unacceptable, if she keeps doing it then i'll stop talking to her, simple as.

 

[pete101]

You need practice dating (we all do!), but if I were you, I'd work just as hard, if not harder, on filling my time up with activities that you like--especially during the week. The gym is an AWESOME idea--most people agree that a fit guy attracts more women. I spend M, W, and F evenings in the gym. No exceptions. In the rest times between sets of my workouts, I'm texting/emailing women on my smartphone, and/or talking up the women at the gym. On T and TH, you'll find me at the bookstore or at the town library, reading--and approaching women (yes, there ARE lots of hot chicks in bookstores and even the library!).

Do you see a pattern here? I'm doing activities that I like, but I'm still able to chase women at the same time.



I say fvuck "acting busy." If she's hot enough, I'll play the flaking game. Iceberg gave you some really good advice about flaking and online. Remember? He said (and I paraphrase) that women on online dating sites are especially flaky! I know this to be true, Pete. SO WHAT! Play the fvucking game. Just because a chick is flaky doesn't mean that you can't score with her.

Here's a typical dialogue with a hot woman in ESPI's online dating game:

ESPI email #1 to HB9 on November 1st: "Absolutely gorgeous photos. How are you?"

(no response from HB9)

ESPI email #2 to HB9 on November 8th: "Can't believe that such a sexy women like you is still on this site; are you just too picky, or do you have a tail or something? LOL"

Response from HB9 on November 9th: "Ha ha! Very funny. No tail. Just a few horns--but I am picky. So tell me about yourself."

ESPI email #3 to HB9 on November 9th: "No stories from me. I'm just a guy looking to date a gorgeous woman. Do you have plans tomorrow night? I'm gonna be shopping at International Mall; why don't you come up and meet me for a drink at 9 pm in front of Cheesecake Factory."

Response email #4 to HB9 on November 16th: "Hey Julia. How about that drink?"

Response from HB9 on 11/16: "OK let's talk. 813-999-9999."

^^^This happens ALL the time to me on match.com and POF--I will date only the most gorgeous women, and 90% of the time, it seems, I have to play the flaking game. Several emails. Then several phone calls/texts. Most of the time, i never hear back from them. It's just the way it is with hot women. But a few will email back--it's like they want to test you, Pete, to see if you'll give up. DON'T BE LIKE MOST GUYS WHO GIVE UP AFTER AN EMAIL OR TWO. Keep trying! You don't have to sell out or becaome an AFC; you just have to keep emailing her with short messages; not bullshiat meaningless dialogues. Just ask for the date. Research "Gunwitch Method." MAKE THE HOE SAY NO.

Notice how I let a week go by in some of those emails? Notice how minimal and to-the-point my emails are? My goal is to avoid the small talk and get her to come out and meet me! That's it. It's usually a very different game when I meet up face-to-face. Not always. Some dates I know right off the bat that we're not connecting. But occassionally I'll find one that is gorgeous and easy to talk to (and score with!). It'll make you realize that texting and emailing usually mean nothing. I personally think that women use flaking to separate the dirt from the gold.

i should have mentioned this HB isn't an online dating girl.. i picked her up 2 weekends ago.. (i've decided to do half online half pick up in person during my sarges it has a better return rate recently and makes me less annoyed if i dont get any POF responses or if i dont get any numbers in person)

the rules still apply?

 

[pete101]

In my opinion, it doesn't matter.

Women are Women; I find them to be the same, whether it be online, at the library, or in the gym. Hot women flake.

A DJ is a DJ. Humor, wit, and confidence WILL set you apart, whether it be online, at the library, or in the gym. How women like confident, funny, witty guys.

i did notice your waiting 1 week before following up with a to the point msg.

im not patient so until i have more plates it's hard for me to sit back and do nothing, if i had more plates like u do then i think it be easier cos i could just alternate the girls so they're not in my thoughts and not get p1ssed about this 1 or that 1 flaking.

 

[pete101]

My responses are in bold.

i should mention also, that this is the 2nd time she cancelled and offered another time.. hence the 2 strikes rule question.

i know what she's like as a person.. she just appears to be a super flakey unreliable type, always an excuse for this or that even if it's valid.

maybe she's just tryna test me to see how annoyed i'd get again for cancelling like she did on sunday and also see if i'll just accept it and keep agreeing.. either way calling her out on it is better than just being cool about it and accepting it and her counter offer. just cos she's counter offering doesn't mean she isn't testing me.

if she cancels 1 more time then that's it, im not contacting her again.

 

[Htienvu]

i should mention also, that this is the 2nd time she cancelled and offered another time.. hence the 2 strikes rule question.

i know what she's like as a person.. she just appears to be a super flakey unreliable type, always an excuse for this or that even if it's valid.

maybe she's just tryna test me to see how annoyed i'd get again for cancelling like she did on sunday and also see if i'll just accept it and keep agreeing.. either way calling her out on it is better than just being cool about it and accepting it and her counter offer. just cos she's counter offering doesn't mean she isn't testing me.

if she cancels 1 more time then that's it, im not contacting her again.

You should go cold on her now! If you let it happen the 3rd time you will lose more than just time and effort. You lose your dignity! Decline her counter offer "maybe we do it another time when you're more sure of your schedule" Then take your attention away from her. If she wants you she will realise her mistake, if she doesn't then it's her lost.

 

[pete101]

i was p1ssed off and sent that text but adjusted it with saying to make it Fri as i was busy tomorrow and thurs.

it's backfired slightly in that she's got plans fri,

she sent: 'thanks, not a good day at all.... alas i have a christmas concert to go to on Friday. another day for you? x'

i noticed she's put a kiss at the end of her messages which she's never done.. i know when girls do this is to manipulate me into giving a response.

to me this just seems like another, cancel, rearrange, cancel rearrange.. in fairness it's still in the negotiation process.

Should I only offer 1 night and that's it, if she doesn't agree to it or offer another time should i just forget it?

her 'another day for you?' is starting to slip down the slopes of 'how about next week?' etc. if she doesn't agree to my next time offer then i'm not contacting her anymore.

 

[PokerStar]

hey pete. i think you should cool off for a few weeks on contacting her. she keeps on counter offering, which personally i hate. well hate is such a strong word, more like annoying.

Whenever I get this from a plate, i move her down the list and have someone else take her place.

if you have to think this much over her, its not really worth it. all these actions should come natually and without having to second guess yourself.

As I have said, cool off for a bit, itll teach you patience.

 

[pete101]

hey pete. i think you should cool off for a few weeks on contacting her. she keeps on counter offering, which personally i hate. well hate is such a strong word, more like annoying.

Whenever I get this from a plate, i move her down the list and have someone else take her place.

if you have to think this much over her, its not really worth it. all these actions should come natually and without having to second guess yourself.

As I have said, cool off for a bit, itll teach you patience.

you're right.. it be easy to do that if i HAD other plates, it's annoying, definitely.

cos i dont want to lose another plate, it hasn't been easy collecting these 2-3 i have and they're all 'maybes'

i just look at it as.. look u offered me thurs, im not gona follow your commands so im stating make it Fri, she says she cant and another day? wtf.. offer me sat night then.. she's making me show how available i am.. now im thinking cos i offered Fri, should i really offer Sat night.. seems too risky.

im gona make her sweat on it now and not reply till tomorrow.

 

[PokerStar]

you're right.. it be easy to do that if i HAD other plates, it's annoying, definitely.

cos i dont want to lose another plate, it hasn't been easy collecting these 2-3 i have and they're all 'maybes'

i just look at it as.. look u offered me thurs, im not gona follow your commands so im stating make it Fri, she says she cant and another day? wtf.. offer me sat night then.. she's making me show how available i am.. now im thinking cos i offered Fri, should i really offer Sat night.. seems too risky.

im gona make her sweat on it now and not reply till tomorrow.

dude. i know what you mean.

if you do reply, which i think you shouldnt, say along the lines you are doing something exciting (whatever is exciting to you) and you cant meet up.

now do something exciting and start meeting new plates. work on that. itll raise your value (in your own mind) which then projects confidence.

if that b@tch calls to set something up. counter offer cause you are so busy with your exciting adventures and the women you attract.

 

[ArcBound]

0 rules play each situation by ear and trust your gut.

 

[el torro]

Wow dude, you are defiantly putting too much energy in to this girl! Chill for a bit,

listen to what the guys are saying, you need to cool off! Stop putting that ***** on the pedestal!

I get what your saying that you have no other options right now but SHE doesn’t know that, the less she knows the better which is why you should keep your messages short and sweet as it keeps you a mystery (which is attractive)

Just because she’s having to cancel on dates does not mean she’s not interested, she might have very good reasons which may have nothing to do with you at all! If I was Ill and had to cancel on a girl (which I have) and she accused me of playing games/being flaky (which happened) I’d tell her to “do one” (which I did) lol so stop being selfish, it’s not all about you! lol

the fact she is offering other dates is a GOOD THING so don’t worry! What’s the urgency? what’s wrong with next week? You sound like the kind of guy who is always overanalysing situations, I know its hard to switch off sometimes but a trick I find is to recognise when your thinking about something and actively change your thoughts by doing something active, watch a film, read a book, meet up with a friend, do anything that keeps your mind off whatever is troubling you then you can look at it again from a fresh perspective!

Good luck

 

[pete_101]

should i wait till tomorrow before i offer the other day/time?

usually i'd get back to her by the next day at most, would it work to my advantage waiting till tomorrow or would it more likely antagonise her?

 

[PokerStar]

usually i'd get back to her by the next day at most, would it work to my advantage waiting till tomorrow or would it more likely antagonise her?

In my opinion I wouldnt. Cause it screams routinely boring.

I understand that you really like this chick. so much you dont want to screw it up. but thats the thing. dont be so worried about your next move.

let me ask you.....How do you feel about this whole situation?

 

[pete_101]

In my opinion I wouldnt. Cause it screams routinely boring.

I understand that you really like this chick. so much you dont want to screw it up. but thats the thing. dont be so worried about your next move.

let me ask you.....How do you feel about this whole situation?

what do you mean routinely boring?

normally i'd have got back to her by today.. i haven't.. yet. so would waiting till tomorrow to offer the time be better?

i think it might create some anxiety on her side and she'll think i'm not interested anymore and wondering why i haven't replied.. but really it depends how patient women are.. they notice a difference in behvior but will i look like a chump by then offering a time tomorrow?

obviously i dont want to antagonise her and p1ss her off to the level where she thinks im playing games and she doesn't respond.. but at same time she needs to know that not giving me a firm counter offer is not good enough.

she did offer thurs, then goes how about another day for you? (maybe cos she felt that i'd reject that too)

it's a risk on my part so i dont know if me delaying replying for a delay would increase her IL for me if she thinks im not interested anymore even for a short time.