Does it matter why a woman is dating you?

[JuanSama]

I was reading the "Mode One" book that posits the idea that your relationships with women shouldn't be transactional but based purely on sexual attraction.

A woman should only be spreading her legs because she's horny and likes your vibe.

But I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?".

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

So I'm thinking that I need to start making use of Mode One so that I can have raw monkey sex (which is what I want) and also be more outcome independent when it comes to women losing interest after they encounter and better mate.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I don't compare myself to anyone. There is only 1 of me, so there is no 'better mate' and if they think they find one, good riddance.

 

[SW15]

I was reading the "Mode One" book that posits the idea that your relationships with women shouldn't be transactional but based purely on sexual attraction.

A woman should only be spreading her legs because she's horny and likes your vibe.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

"Mode One" and Rollo Tomassi would agree on this. A Rollo tweet from February 2018 states this.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/963083386980990976

I agree with Rollo Tomassi and Alan Roger Currie ("Mode One" author) about this.

Rollo published an article in August 2011 which I believe in the origin of his statement "You cannot negotiate genuine desire."

The Desire Dynamic

You cannot negotiate Desire. This is a very simple principle that most Men and the vast majority of women are willfully ignorant of. One the most common personal problems I’ve been asked advi…

therationalmale.com

Rollo has had numerous articles build off of the concept he first put forward in that 2011 article.

I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?".

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

Game is a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. If you're getting women off of being tall (without other looks factors) and having a decent job, then you're likely using "Beta Bux" type game to attract, seduce, and retain. In the longer term, that's less sustainable because it isn't genuine. Genuine desire has greater longer term sustainable and genuine desire is represented more by "Alpha Fux".

 

[JuanSama]

"Mode One" and Rollo Tomassi would agree on this. A Rollo tweet from February 2018 states this.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/963083386980990976

I agree with Rollo Tomassi and Alan Roger Currie ("Mode One" author) about this.

Rollo published an article in August 2011 which I believe in the origin of his statement "You cannot negotiate genuine desire."

The Desire Dynamic

You cannot negotiate Desire. This is a very simple principle that most Men and the vast majority of women are willfully ignorant of. One the most common personal problems I’ve been asked advi…

therationalmale.com

Rollo has had numerous articles build off of the concept he first put forward in that 2011 article.



Game is a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. If you're getting women off of being tall (without other looks factors) and having a decent job, then you're likely using "Beta Bux" type game to attract, seduce, and retain. In the longer term, that's less sustainable because it isn't genuine. Genuine desire has greater longer term sustainable and genuine desire is represented more by "Alpha Fux".

You nailed it. I'll admit that a few times, I noticed the girl isn't even wet during sex, which proves that there's no genuine attraction between us.

Are there any resources you recommend to tackle this problem? I'd scour Rational Male's website and use Google but I'd appreciate it if you could link me directly to what I need.

 

[SW15]

Are there any resources you recommend to tackle this problem? I'd scour Rational Male's website and use Google but I'd appreciate it if you could link me directly to what I need.

You have to figure out whether you have an inner game problem or an outward technique problem. For most men, it's likely a combination of both.

I think you're on the right path by reading "Mode One" by Alan Roger Currie. I have never read "Mode One" but what I have heard of it has been good. @We_ArE_VeNOM is the biggest "Mode One" expert of regular posters on this forum. Since you have started "Mode One", I recommend that you finish "Mode One".

I liked reading Rollo Tomassi's "The Rational Male" book. "The Rational Male" is a nearly 300 page book published in 2013. Much of the writing of "The Rational Male" was compiled from essays Rollo wrote on his blog from 2011 - 2013 and his SoSuave forum posts dating back to 2004. He re-purposed and added some new content for the book. Although "The Rational Male" has origins in the 2000s-2010s, most of the ideas hold up very well today. You could read the 2013 book today in 2024 and it wouldn't feel dated. I recommend buying the book and reading the book.

I also liked reading Richard Cooper's "The Unplugged Alpha", which was published in 2020. "The Unplugged Alpha" is only around 200 pages and is written in a very compelling and easy to digest style. I found it to be a faster read than "The Rational Male". Rollo Tomassi wrote the 2-3 page introduction to "The Unplugged Alpha".

For outer game techniques, I found the most influential books to be Roosh's "Bang" and "Day Bang". Unfortunately, both of those book are out of print now, but "Day Bang" was extremely transformational for me as it served as the basis for my transition in the early 2010s from a primarily nightlife type venue guy in the 2000s to a primarily daygame game starting in the early 2010s.

Since "Bang" and "Day Bang" are out of print now, I would recommend using "The Mystery Method" as a good outer game book. "The Mystery Method" is geared more towards nightlife venue approaching but Mystery acknowledges in one sentence on one page that his method is applicable in non-bar approaching as well. The YouTube channel "Playing with Fire" has some solid tactics too.

I'll admit that a few times, I noticed the girl isn't even wet during sex, which proves that there's no genuine attraction between us.

This could be a simpler problem with your sexual technique too. Perhaps you're not doing enough foreplay. I do recommend reading some sex technique content or watching some sex technique videos. It could also be an issue with your frame (Iron Rule of Tomassi #1) and other aspects of your vibe and overall personality too.

Have a good physique, use good sexual technique, and keep some water based lubricant around too. Most condoms are lubricated too, which is important. There is something called Iron Rule of Tomassi #5 -- Always use protection. Never allow a woman to control the conception and birthing process.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

But I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?".

I don't know your method/route you take to get women, but if you are cold approaching, there is no way a woman can determine your career or financial status just off looks alone.

Unless you are going around talking about "Excuse, miss..I am the chief financial officer of a Fortune 500 company. May I take you out to dinner later tonight for steak, lobster, and shrimp..and we can wash it down with some of the finest and expensive wine they have to offer."

How are they gonna know if you don't tell them?

That is why I love cold approach and giving my # to them... because if she hits me up, it is base on pure physical attraction and nothing else.

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

So I'm thinking that I need to start making use of Mode One so that I can have raw monkey sex (which is what I want) and also be more outcome independent when it comes to women losing interest after they encounter and better mate.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

That is why Mode One is so effective, because it tells you where you stand with a woman (sexually) before she can exploit you for anything besides your sexual resources.

I keep telling y'all, MODE ONE!!

 

[JuanSama]

I don't know your method/route you take to get women, but if you are cold approaching, there is no way a woman can determine your career or financial status just off looks alone.

Unless you are going around talking about "Excuse, miss..I am the chief financial officer of a Fortune 500 company. May I take you out to dinner later tonight for steak, lobster, and shrimp..and we can wash it down with some of the finest and expensive wine they have to offer."

How are they gonna know if you don't tell them?

That is why I love cold approach and giving my # to them... because if she hits me up, it is base on pure physical attraction and nothing else.

That is why Mode One is so effective, because it tells you where you stand with a woman (sexually) before she can exploit you for anything besides your sexual resources.

I keep telling y'all, MODE ONE!!

I cold approach too but I end up revealing my job when they ask about it during the first date. I tried telling two of them that I'm currently unemployed and they don't want to meet again after that. So I've been using my job to get ***** but it's not the right way obviously.

I also tend to talk a lot because I used to be a socially awkward dork and I used small talk to improve my social skills. That's why I was able to start approaching in the first place but I have trouble knowing when to stop. I also tend to use a lot of the techniques in How to Win Friends to make the woman feel comfortable, which probably makes me look too beta.

I want to stop wasting my time with small talk but I also don't want to become a socially retarded person again.

How do you go about balancing the two? Or, are you able to completely stop small talk while still retaining social skills?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

How do you go about balancing the two? Or, are you able to completely stop small talk while still retaining social skills?

Change the topic.

 

[SW15]

I tried telling two of them that I'm currently unemployed and they don't want to meet again after that.

I don't recommend telling women you are unemployed when you are actually employed.

In 2012, on the heels of a nasty recessionary period, Roosh wrote an article about how to get laid when you actually find yourself unemployed.

Getting Laid While Unemployed And Living In Your Dad’s Basement

Most men will find it difficult to get laid while unemployed. That article seems awesome in theory but is actually difficult to execute. I have been unemployed since that article was published in the early 2010s. It's not good. Unattached guys have a difficult time seducing new women while unemployed and attached, unmarried guys often find it difficult to retain their girlfriends while unemployed.

I cold approach too but I end up revealing my job when they ask about it during the first date.

In general, the best idea to avoid talking about your job on dates, especially if it is some boring white collar job. Women also aren't too interested in most blue collar jobs on dates either. The better things to talk about on dates are non-work related topics.

I also tend to use a lot of the techniques in How to Win Friends to make the woman feel comfortable, which probably makes me look too beta.

Making someone comfortable isn't the same as making someone attracted to you. "How to Win Friends" is likely a decent book that can help you in making male friends and might be useful if you are a sales rep with a product that requires a lot of interpersonal contact to complete a sale. However, that book would have very little application in creating the sexual tension necessary for a romantic interaction.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I cold approach too but I end up revealing my job when they ask about it during the first date.

A couple things here..

You can take it or leave it, but this is what I would advise for future reference.

If casual sex with a woman is your first priority, then a date is not necessary.

You have to find out a way to whereas you can go Mode One on her before any date is even discussed.

That's what Mode One is all about, if that is your intention.

However, if you are a Mode 2 kind of guy, still, before you set any date with a woman where you will ultimately pay her half..you should set up a meet & greet with her first.

I prefer the park (and close to sunset, to set the mood).

If she agrees to meet you at X neutral place, make sure you wear cologne.

Whe you meet her, go in for a hug (don't ask, go for it)..and take a walk with her around the area, and keep physical contact active (embracing, placing hands on her shoulders, etc).

You have to get a genuine feel for her body language and vibe.

As you two talk and if she is showing genuine interest in your presence and touch..go in for a kiss.

French kiss. Tongue kiss.

Make sure you've brushed your teeth and/or chewed gum.

If she is reciprocating your advances..then invite her to your crib.

If she declines, then based on her genuine responsiveness to your physical advances.. I'd say she is worth a dinner date.

However, just one.

No more paid dates until she come up out the panties.
.....

Now, if you are Mode One...you will be more direct..

"Meet me at the park so I can kiss on those luscious lips of yours".

If she offers resistance, then to hell with any date.

Why would you spend money on a brawd that you can't even kiss?

If you are Mode One, the mere thought is absurd and out of the question.

I tried telling two of them that I'm currently unemployed and they don't want to meet again after that.

Then to hell with them.

So I've been using my job to get ***** but it's not the right way obviously.

Yeah, but you aren't paying them for puzzy, are you?

I also tend to talk a lot because I used to be a socially awkward dork and I used small talk to improve my social skills. That's why I was able to start approaching in the first place but I have trouble knowing when to stop. I also tend to use a lot of the techniques in How to Win Friends to make the woman feel comfortable, which probably makes me look too beta.

Well, since you talk a lot, use some of that talking energy towards seduction.

Alan Roger Currie is labeled the King of Verbal Seduction...and from what I heard his book..

Amazon.com

Is supposed to be A1 when it comes to verbal seduction.

I want to stop wasting my time with small talk but I also don't want to become a socially retarded person again.

Nothing wrong with talk, but it has to lead you to where you want to go.

Women will gladly engage in bullshiit small talk with you all day long if you let them.

No small talk unless it is swinging the pendulum towards making shiit happen.

How do you go about balancing the two? Or, are you able to completely stop small talk while still retaining social skills?

I don't have trivial small talk with women unless we are in a work environment.

If I talk to a woman, I am trying to directly/boldly get at them.

Besides that, there is nothing to talk about.

That is the balance; if I am attracted to her, I talk.

If not, I don't.

 

[JuanSama]

...

Correct, I'm still in Mode Two and I'm going to start going Mode One. Last time, I met a girl and invited her to walk in the park. I actually wanted to tell her "I want to kiss you, let's go somewhere quiet". Instead, I said "Let's go somewhere quiet" because I was scared she was gonna take it the wrong way. But I messed up, of course, and need to be more direct and explicit with what I'm expecting out of the encounter.

Part of me is still scared of rejection and I'll have to work on that.

 

[inquisitor]

A woman should only be spreading her legs because she's horny and likes your vibe.

But I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?".

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

She is not dating you because of your qualifications.

She is dating you because of the implications of your qualifications.

She dates you because she's been taught in media and society that when you are accomplished outwardly, then you must have mastered the sexual aspect. You are tall and you are employed; therefore, you must be great at sex.

There is a simple remedy: be great at fūcking her. You hit two birds with one stone - she'll be more inclined to stay with you, and you get to have great, animalistic sex.

Also, no. She won't leave you for someone better on these qualifications. She just needs more of that masculine you.

I don't know any Modes, but I can tell you that Modes need not be chosen over like a on/off switch. Modes are more fluid - use one sometimes, use both sometimes. Both are helpful especially when in sync.

You are already seemingly accomplished at all aspects except sex... so, just add sex. Be better at sex. Let her know you are the one she wants, AND while still living on your own terms.

 

[inquisitor]

I cold approach too but I end up revealing my job when they ask about it during the first date. I tried telling two of them that I'm currently unemployed and they don't want to meet again after that. So I've been using my job to get ***** but it's not the right way obviously.

I also tend to talk a lot because I used to be a socially awkward dork and I used small talk to improve my social skills. That's why I was able to start approaching in the first place but I have trouble knowing when to stop. I also tend to use a lot of the techniques in How to Win Friends to make the woman feel comfortable, which probably makes me look too beta.

I want to stop wasting my time with small talk but I also don't want to become a socially retarded person again.

How do you go about balancing the two? Or, are you able to completely stop small talk while still retaining social skills?

Looks like you have trouble with determining what you want.

What do you want?

Sex? A relationship? A mutual friend? Just to understand women more?

If you know what you want, you'll know better what you have to do.

 

[zekko]

But I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?"

Whether or not you think it matters why a woman dates you, the reason you give is not a bad one. I'm sure women would get their panties wet over a tall guy who has a decent job, who gives them social validation because other women freak out over him.

As for worrying about if she will dump you for a better guy, that is always a danger no matter why she is dating you. The manosphere calls it hypergamy.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I was reading the "Mode One" book that posits the idea that your relationships with women shouldn't be transactional but based purely on sexual attraction.

A woman should only be spreading her legs because she's horny and likes your vibe.

But I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?".

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

So I'm thinking that I need to start making use of Mode One so that I can have raw monkey sex (which is what I want) and also be more outcome independent when it comes to women losing interest after they encounter and better mate.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

Using OLD is a good way of finding out why women are attracted to you. And thus why they are willing to date you. I asked the girls I matched with why they swiped right on me.

Also. Once you start having sex. They’ll tell you why they like fvcking you.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Correct, I'm still in Mode Two and I'm going to start going Mode One. Last time, I met a girl and invited her to walk in the park. I actually wanted to tell her "I want to kiss you, let's go somewhere quiet". Instead, I said "Let's go somewhere quiet" because I was scared she was gonna take it the wrong way. But I messed up, of course, and need to be more direct and explicit with what I'm expecting out of the encounter.

Indeed.

Since my direct approach is my shiit test for women, if they take it the wrong way, then they've failed the test and is therefore unworthy of any date(s).

I recommend you to give women similar tests, as that is the only way to tell if she is feeling you or not.

Of course, you can always play the long game with Mode 2...but I just don't have the patience for it.

If the woman doesn't recognize enough of the G in me during a meet & greet, then I don't recognize her as "date" status.

I understand that this is high level thinking that most men don't have..but I think that we should all thrive to achieve that level of caliber within ourselves.

Part of me is still scared of rejection and I'll have to work on that.

Yeah, rejection s#cks.

No one likes rejection.

But do not fear it.

 

[Learning Curve]

I was reading the "Mode One" book that posits the idea that your relationships with women shouldn't be transactional but based purely on sexual attraction.

A woman should only be spreading her legs because she's horny and likes your vibe.

But I noticed that women only date me because I'm a tall guy who has a decent job. Most of the women I date like to show me off to their parents or friends because they want to receive social validation from the fact that they're able to date someone like me. My current girl brought me to her cousin on the first date, and the latter screamed "Where and how tf did you find that?".

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

So I'm thinking that I need to start making use of Mode One so that I can have raw monkey sex (which is what I want) and also be more outcome independent when it comes to women losing interest after they encounter and better mate.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

Looking good and having a good job will only get you that far with women.

Good looks can open doors and you can get social validation and general validation from women, but if you personality is not on point you will loose the game long term.

You have to be on your A-Game for women to stay even if another guy approaches them. This is today's reality.

 

[Bokanovsky]

At first I liked it because it was good for me ego. After some time, I realized that these women would gladly leave me for someone who's taller and richer if such a man would make moves on them.

Would you have left those girls for someone who was hotter, younger and more submissive if you could? Serious question.

 

[JuanSama]

Looks like you have trouble with determining what you want.

What do you want?

Sex? A relationship? A mutual friend? Just to understand women more?

If you know what you want, you'll know better what you have to do.

Correct, I'm still confused because most of the time I just want to smash but idk why I start to think about starting a family sometimes.

It mostly happens after I interact with married blue pillers who talk about how great married life is when their wives actually flirt with me behind their back.

I think I need to be more careful about who I interact with.

I also think about going LTR when I start thinking about how I'm gonna end up a lonely old man if I don't get married and have kids soon. Still need to meditate on this.

Since my direct approach is my shiit test for women, if they take it the wrong way, then they've failed the test and is therefore unworthy of any date(s).

I recommend you to give women similar tests, as that is the only way to tell if she is feeling you or not.

Of course, you can always play the long game with Mode 2...but I just don't have the patience for it.

I've been reading the "Say it Again" book and Alan talks about how women who are 5s and 4s don't respond well to Mode One because they only want sex after marriage or during a LTR.

I was wondering if it's possible to want to smash but also be open to a LTR with the right woman.

Because it could be too risky because if you end up finding a 2 who's pretending to be a 5, you might end up with a hoe for the rest of your life. I'm still inexperienced at determining where a woman lies on the scale.

Do you just leave the 5s and 4s alone like Alan suggests or do you still pursue them in case they're good for LTR?

 

[inquisitor]

Correct, I'm still confused because most of the time I just want to smash but idk why I start to think about starting a family sometimes.

It mostly happens after I interact with married blue pillers who talk about how great married life is when their wives actually flirt with me behind their back.

I think I need to be more careful about who I interact with.

You must have met a few interesting women along the way. If you think any single one of these women cannot be good for an LTR, then find some more women. No rush.

Whatever you end up wanting - it is a choice for you to figure out. Talk more to the women you find could be good for an LTR, spend some more time with them. Make them your girlfriend and if you hate them a few months or years later, break it up. Only you can decide whether you'll have an LTR or not.

I also think about going LTR when I start thinking about how I'm gonna end up a lonely old man if I don't get married and have kids soon. Still need to meditate on this.

You're thinking too far ahead. The actions now dictate what happens later, so act instead.

I was wondering if it's possible to want to smash but also be open to a LTR with the right woman.

Because it could be too risky because if you end up finding a 2 who's pretending to be a 5, you might end up with a hoe for the rest of your life. I'm still inexperienced at determining where a woman lies on the scale.

Do you just leave the 5s and 4s alone like Alan suggests or do you still pursue them in case they're good for LTR?

No, find an 8 or a 9. If you tried hard enough, at best, you'll get a 7, which is still better... or tolerate a 5, if it floats your boat.

Expect the worst with women. Better yet, just find someone younger and nicer.

If you want more experience, just talk to more women. Law of large numbers.