Do you think women whose men have become a "househusband" lose sexual attraction for them?

[SteR]

When we were dating and got married he owned the hottest high end nightclub in a well known nightlife city. So that was who he was (or who he put himself out there to be) until AFTER we were married and AFTER his partner (a childhood friend since they were in gradeschool) screwed him over. He was also naturally charming and we got along very well. So I thought "Gee this is great, I'm marrying a fellow business man & we both really enjoy the nightlife industry...this is wonderful." But when the chips were down he wouldn't get up. I didn't find that out until after getting married.

That's the whole problem. You don't really know much about who someone really is until life dishes out some hardship. He was utterly unprepared to handle hardship. I didn't have a way to know that going in and looking back I think he honestly had no idea what he didn't know. So he was completely congruent in his behavior and thus utterly believable.

When I began to understand who he really was, I was about to give birth to our son. So at that point I thought..."OK, we are in serious sh1t, but we are about to have children. That changes everything. We need to make this work" so I actually redoubled my efforts and fortunately I was already earning six figures as a self employed professional so I simply figured I would carry the family financially until he got his stuff sorted and figured out his next move. Only he didn't.

So yeah. I always felt that he presented himself as someone he was not, but he did so more out of ignorance rather than malice, and I picked him, so I also figured I had made that choice and therefore I needed to make that choice work.

My story is in various places around the forum. Even as I look back on it, I'm not sure there would have been any indications differently beforehand. So it is what it is.

The problem is, this is how it should happen for both genders ie. If (heaven forbid) it doesn't work out, both parties can go their separate ways without too much damage. The trouble is nowadays the guy gets totally screwed and it's nearly always the woman who walks away with everything.

Hell, even a week or 2 ago I was in the supermarket and I overheard the guy working the tills talking to his colleague about how he got divorced and his wife took everything. He doesn't even get to see his daughter any more. It made my blood boil.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I have a buddy doing it but he do it from the gigilo / suave stud angle. Most men will lose masculinity over time doing it.

 

[Fruitbat]

When we were dating and got married he owned the hottest high end nightclub in a well known nightlife city. So that was who he was (or who he put himself out there to be) until AFTER we were married and AFTER his partner (a childhood friend since they were in gradeschool) screwed him over. He was also naturally charming and we got along very well. So I thought "Gee this is great, I'm marrying a fellow business man & we both really enjoy the nightlife industry...this is wonderful." But when the chips were down he wouldn't get up. I didn't find that out until after getting married.

That's the whole problem. You don't really know much about who someone really is until life dishes out some hardship. He was utterly unprepared to handle hardship. I didn't have a way to know that going in and looking back I think he honestly had no idea what he didn't know. So he was completely congruent in his behavior and thus utterly believable.

When I began to understand who he really was, I was about to give birth to our son. So at that point I thought..."OK, we are in serious sh1t, but we are about to have children. That changes everything. We need to make this work" so I actually redoubled my efforts and fortunately I was already earning six figures as a self employed professional so I simply figured I would carry the family financially until he got his stuff sorted and figured out his next move. Only he didn't.

So yeah. I always felt that he presented himself as someone he was not, but he did so more out of ignorance rather than malice, and I picked him, so I also figured I had made that choice and therefore I needed to make that choice work.

My story is in various places around the forum. Even as I look back on it, I'm not sure there would have been any indications differently beforehand. So it is what it is.

Did he earn his way to owing a huge nightclub or did he receive financial help i.e. from parents etc to get started?

I've seen many an "annointed" man pass off success to work out they're actually a loser later in life.

I know Doctors who had grade A support from parents to get there....basically no acumen whatsoever but the appearance of great success.

I may be miles off the mark, but I've seen this play out a lot. People that raise their social/financial status are the real winners in life. A poor mechanic who owns a medium sized garage and runs it successfully is actually more solid than a boy who got daddy's empire. However, this isn't how the world works when dating, you can't explain to people where you came from and women don't seem to care about this dynamic, the only dynamic which measures real worth or ability.

 

[Fruitbat]

Being a meathead doesn't equal attraction. It certainly may help in many instances.

And I don't care what individual women's preferences are. All women must be attracted to their men, to stay with them (and have a successful relationship).

The only exception to this are those really sheltered, stupid, weird girls that are 25 years old and never kissed anybody. Those girls usually marry a gay guy who's trying to be straight. These are the only types of people they feel comfortable enough around to let them see themselves naked. This never ends well either.

Yes, but I think for many it is more of a cerebral thing than a physical "oooh, handsome" type thing, your mind can be as attractive as your body. I certainly find some attractive women have offputting personalities, I'm sure women get the same.

 

[speed dawg]

Yes, but I think for many it is more of a cerebral thing than a physical "oooh, handsome" type thing, your mind can be as attractive as your body. I certainly find some attractive women have offputting personalities, I'm sure women get the same.

I'm not sure what we're arguing here. I think it's common sense that the attractiveness of a person is based on the whole package.

 

[BeExcellent]

Did he earn his way to owing a huge nightclub or did he receive financial help i.e. from parents etc to get started?

I've seen many an "annointed" man pass off success to work out they're actually a loser later in life.

I know Doctors who had grade A support from parents to get there....basically no acumen whatsoever but the appearance of great success.

I may be miles off the mark, but I've seen this play out a lot. People that raise their social/financial status are the real winners in life. A poor mechanic who owns a medium sized garage and runs it successfully is actually more solid than a boy who got daddy's empire. However, this isn't how the world works when dating, you can't explain to people where you came from and women don't seem to care about this dynamic, the only dynamic which measures real worth or ability.

He earned his way up but had some good fortune along the way as well. One problem was that once the partnership soured (including the ensuing legal fight) he had no desire to operate in a partnership again.

The bigger problem was that in the market where he operated he had been effectively priced out by rapidly rising rents and building costs while he was operating his club. He was understandably gun shy about partnership arrangements, having been screwed over by a childhood friend, so there he was with a bad partnership experience, and not enough money to do something on his own. I couldn't help him as somebody had to support us and pay off his remaining debts from the deal.

So did he get a little help? Yes. But he was not spoiled by any stretch (undisciplined, yes, but not spoiled...until he married me. At that point (within the marriage) it was easier for him NOT to get out there & struggle...because in being married to me, he didn't have to. He isn't an independently ambitious man although he appeared to be BEFORE we married and BEFORE the crap hit the fan in his business.)

I mean this was a man who lost his dad suddenly as an adolescent. He hadn't had some cushy life.

My whole point in all this is that you really cannot know how the dynamic can change AFTER you marry someone and AFTER some major life stuff happens. Had my ex simply carried the load at home with keeping up on the kids and the household we would still be married and things would be OK. But it made NO sense for me to stay in the marriage with someone who became utterly lazy/entitled, copped an attitude if I mentioned that things were NOT satisfactory, and refused to contribute to the team beyond the absolute barest minimum he could get by with.

I divorced him more because I was getting seriously concerned about the example I was setting for my children by tolerating his laziness and staying in the marriage. Even now I am constantly battling his bad habits because my kids are picking up procrastination and getting by from him.

 

[Fruitbat]

He earned his way up but had some good fortune along the way as well. One problem was that once the partnership soured (including the ensuing legal fight) he had no desire to operate in a partnership again.

The bigger problem was that in the market where he operated he had been effectively priced out by rapidly rising rents and building costs while he was operating his club. He was understandably gun shy about partnership arrangements, having been screwed over by a childhood friend, so there he was with a bad partnership experience, and not enough money to do something on his own. I couldn't help him as somebody had to support us and pay off his remaining debts from the deal.

So did he get a little help? Yes. But he was not spoiled by any stretch (undisciplined, yes, but not spoiled...until he married me. At that point (within the marriage) it was easier for him NOT to get out there & struggle...because in being married to me, he didn't have to. He isn't an independently ambitious man although he appeared to be BEFORE we married and BEFORE the crap hit the fan in his business.)

I mean this was a man who lost his dad suddenly as an adolescent. He hadn't had some cushy life.

My whole point in all this is that you really cannot know how the dynamic can change AFTER you marry someone and AFTER some major life stuff happens. Had my ex simply carried the load at home with keeping up on the kids and the household we would still be married and things would be OK. But it made NO sense for me to stay in the marriage with someone who became utterly lazy/entitled, copped an attitude if I mentioned that things were NOT satisfactory, and refused to contribute to the team beyond the absolute barest minimum he could get by with.

I divorced him more because I was getting seriously concerned about the example I was setting for my children by tolerating his laziness and staying in the marriage. Even now I am constantly battling his bad habits because my kids are picking up procrastination and getting by from him.

I am not questioning he had it easy, I am saying that the first thing you said about what drew you to him was owning a big nightclub. You've then described he actually could not innovate or find solutions and had a financial leg up getting there in the first place, or some luck.....which kind of descibes my point. Where you are today, your SMV as a man is on what you boast now. You could be entirely made by circumstances, but that's how it seems to work.....while some men who would have been a good father and husband owned nothing like that, but did not have the big assets to flash....I'm just saying the measure of a man is in his achievement, not his possessions or social rank. These are often not derived from virtue. If they aren't earned, they produce exactly the spoiled attitude you suggest. However, I cannot criticise as I chose poorly, but that was mainly because as I was working my way from poverty, all the good women were chasing dudes with nightclubs or other superficial charms....not bitter, not at all!

 

[BeExcellent]

I am saying that the first thing you said about what drew you to him was owning a big nightclub.

That's not what I said. You asked:

So you picked a total loser and decided to have kids with him?

What was the attraction?

Let's look at what I actually did say:

When we were dating and got married he owned the hottest high end nightclub in a well known nightlife city. ......... So I thought "Gee this is great, I'm marrying a fellow business man & we both really enjoy the nightlife industry...this is wonderful."

His business happened to be the nightclub business. It was never about the cache of the nightclub. I really liked HIM as a person (hence why I stayed steadfast for over 10 years after everything fell apart.) I enjoyed the nightlife. We were highly compatible.

As an entrepreneur myself I wanted to pair off with another business person or a professional who was likewise self employed. Why? Because people who are supporting themselves think differently. They understand the ups and downs of being in business, the lack of a security net, the struggles and the successes. They have success thinking (usually). You assume that I would pass over a successful mechanic running his own shop. Not true. My father was a self employed attorney, my grandfathers were an independent oilman and self-employed physician, respectively, I am from a family of entrepreneurs and professionals (who were typically self-employed.)

Here were some the various notable men vying for my attention or who were in the dating field when I chose my ex-husband:

1. A political adviser who later worked at the White House
2. A #1 ranked salesman for a national corporation
3. A professional male model who was also a car dealer
4. An owner of a video game start-up that has since become nationally well known
5. An attorney

That doesn't count various other men who didn't fit my specific criteria. All the men above were physically attractive and successful or working toward becoming successful. When you have this kind of abundance as I did (and still do) EVERYBODY is accomplished and EVERYBODY is good looking. You pick based on other stuff because looks and success are simply par for the course. I didn't "go chasing" my ex husband at all, quite the reverse. I was the woman everybody wanted.

Dating used to mean that you go on dates to get to know someone to decide whether or not that other person is a good fit for you for the long term. I still see dating that way. It's not about getting laid right away, its not about superficial crap at all. It's about whether or not you are compatible with someone long term, it's about whether or not you like that other person and really enjoy spending time with them. Does there come a time when knowing whether or not the sex is worthwhile becomes important? Yes. But that comes AFTER you know you like someone and find the other person to be a good match, not before.

I didn't have sex with my ex husband until we were engaged. At that point I wanted to know what sort of lover he would be (as I was going to "forsake all others" forever to marry him - that was the plan.) I know that for a while as we were dating he was in fact still having sex with at least one other woman. I wasn't the least bit jealous. Either he would see my value, which he did, or he wouldn't...but I wasn't sleeping with him while he was fooling with another woman. I wanted to be sure he was serious about me as a life mate. I still really like him a lot. We get along beautifully and our children are exceptionally well adjusted to our divorce, happy, and secure as a result.

Yes he was a nightclub owner. It was never about that. You asked why I married and had kids with a loser. I didn't. It's what happened AFTER the vows that mattered for the topic of the OP.

 

[Von]

This post sums up my long term fear in an LTR.. I fear marrying, the dynamic changing and I end up losing half my stuff that I've worked for.

@BeExcellent has been very fortunate that her ex didn't take half of what she's worked for along with alimony!

I think 'house husbands' will become more and more common. Women can support a family nowadays & gender roles aren't as stereotypical as they once were. It isn't a given that the man is the provider and the woman is the carer in a household.

Certainly in the UK, you need a six figure income to comfortably support a family of 2 adults & 2 kids.

Funny, how in Norway... country next to Sweden: the gender equality country of the world... they published a story that showed... the more the man was involved in house shore...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...k-are-more-likely-to-divorce-study-finds.html

True, the middle class have crashed thus increasing the need for both parents to work and with society evolution... women are more ''equal'' than man in every aspect.

If manual labor was important or valorized now... sure the ''alpha male would come back'' however, I believe we going back to the caveman... strongest will survice only

 

[Fruitbat]

That's not what I said. You asked:



Let's look at what I actually did say:



His business happened to be the nightclub business. It was never about the cache of the nightclub. I really liked HIM as a person (hence why I stayed steadfast for over 10 years after everything fell apart.) I enjoyed the nightlife. We were highly compatible.

As an entrepreneur myself I wanted to pair off with another business person or a professional who was likewise self employed. Why? Because people who are supporting themselves think differently. They understand the ups and downs of being in business, the lack of a security net, the struggles and the successes. They have success thinking (usually). You assume that I would pass over a successful mechanic running his own shop. Not true. My father was a self employed attorney, my grandfathers were an independent oilman and self-employed physician, respectively, I am from a family of entrepreneurs and professionals (who were typically self-employed.)

Here were some the various notable men vying for my attention or who were in the dating field when I chose my ex-husband:

1. A political adviser who later worked at the White House
2. A #1 ranked salesman for a national corporation
3. A professional male model who was also a car dealer
4. An owner of a video game start-up that has since become nationally well known
5. An attorney

That doesn't count various other men who didn't fit my specific criteria. All the men above were physically attractive and successful or working toward becoming successful. When you have this kind of abundance as I did (and still do) EVERYBODY is accomplished and EVERYBODY is good looking. You pick based on other stuff because looks and success are simply par for the course. I didn't "go chasing" my ex husband at all, quite the reverse. I was the woman everybody wanted.

Dating used to mean that you go on dates to get to know someone to decide whether or not that other person is a good fit for you for the long term. I still see dating that way. It's not about getting laid right away, its not about superficial crap at all. It's about whether or not you are compatible with someone long term, it's about whether or not you like that other person and really enjoy spending time with them. Does there come a time when knowing whether or not the sex is worthwhile becomes important? Yes. But that comes AFTER you know you like someone and find the other person to be a good match, not before.

I didn't have sex with my ex husband until we were engaged. At that point I wanted to know what sort of lover he would be (as I was going to "forsake all others" forever to marry him - that was the plan.) I know that for a while as we were dating he was in fact still having sex with at least one other woman. I wasn't the least bit jealous. Either he would see my value, which he did, or he wouldn't...but I wasn't sleeping with him while he was fooling with another woman. I wanted to be sure he was serious about me as a life mate. I still really like him a lot. We get along beautifully and our children are exceptionally well adjusted to our divorce, happy, and secure as a result.

Yes he was a nightclub owner. It was never about that. You asked why I married and had kids with a loser. I didn't. It's what happened AFTER the vows that mattered for the topic of the OP.

1. A political adviser who later worked at the White House
2. A #1 ranked salesman for a national corporation
3. A professional male model who was also a car dealer
4. An owner of a video game start-up that has since become nationally well known
5. An attorney

Don't stop, believing.....

There are some clearly articulate men in there but they have all been listed for what they are. It's this logic which is why it breaks down.

I was dating:

1. A woman with a size 8 figure
2. A woman with a size 6 figure
3. A 22 year old with 36f breasts
4. A blonde woman with 36-22-34 stats
5. A woman with big blue eyes.

I met a woman who was slightly chubby but amazing character....oh, character...please! NEXT!

 

[Masculinity]

I was reading this, and it got me interested:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...g-wives-ditch-men-em-em-wanted-stay-home.html










And man, has this poor guy gotten REAMED!

Absolutely. The guy is no longer a challenge, fun, unpredictable, a leader. He basically becomes her b!tch.

 

[playa99]

Funny, how in Norway... country next to Sweden: the gender equality country of the world... they published a story that showed... the more the man was involved in house shore...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...k-are-more-likely-to-divorce-study-finds.html

True, the middle class have crashed thus increasing the need for both parents to work and with society evolution... women are more ''equal'' than man in every aspect.

If manual labor was important or valorized now... sure the ''alpha male would come back'' however, I believe we going back to the caveman... strongest will survice only

Interesting article!

Society has changed immensely over the past 50-100 years, with equality for everyone being at the center of this change.

50-100 years ago a woman was shunned socially if she got divorced, she was seen as 'bad goods'. Now it is socially accepted and roughly half of all marriages end in divorce. Men had more value than women as they were more often than not the breadwinner & if they walked away, the woman stood to be left with nothing.

If you are a breadwinner in either a marriage or relationship with kids now, you are vulnerable as hell! You could wind up supporting your ex financially for the rest of her life.

This leads to hook up culture, branch swinging etc etc. Men simply do not have leverage over women like they used to.

If I were to get married, I would insist on a water tight pre-nup that is fair for both of us. It is suicide not to do that.