do women know what they want?

[joekerr31]

hey folks,

just thought id throw this out there for discussion.

do you think most women know what they want? or rather do you think they have absolutely no clue and make their choices based solely on emotion?

im thinking the later is the case.

if you agree what do you think this is the case? why do women seem to lack so little insight into what they really want in a man and rather end up with men based on a combination of emotional triggers?

J

 

[WestCoaster]

Most do not know

I would say the majority of women do not know what they want. They SAY they know what they want and usually gravitate towards the first guy the direct opposite of what they want. I've seen this so many times my head is spinning. (If they get married to such a dude, one can set their watch to a divorce at approx. 3.5 years down the road, one or two kids in tow.)

About 90 percent of U.S. women say they want a guy with a sense of humor, a "soulmate" (hate that word), one who understands them, is a listener, blah, blah, blah, blah ... heard it all.

The guy they fall for is about as funny as a bad sitcom on Nick at Nite, hasn't bathed in days, is an a-hole, doesn't listen or understand them.

Now I'd have no problemo with them dating these dirtballs if they just said that's who they want to date.


Guys are simple: They say they want to date hot chicks with big boobs and gravitate toward them.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Women and men are iintimately aware of their own conditions, whether this is a conscious recognition or an unconscious motivation, we are all aware of the conditions that we are individually subject to. In this, women know what they need in respect to their own conditions.

Human beings are natural optomists; it is in our evolutionary best interest to opt for the best choice that ensures our own survival and the survival of our offspring. To effectively and consistently make the best choices we have developed (evolved) both conscious and unconscious ways of comparing and estimating the value of specific options that benefit our own conditions and/or solve specific problems our conditions confront us with. Meaning that all things being equal, we will opt for the large red shiny apple in preference to the small pale bland apple and we do this unconsciously.

That said, and to answer the question, yes, women do in fact know what they want as it applies to meeting their given requirements for the condition that they find themselves in with regard to mating. Unfortunately these conditions also dictate that she maximizes her options (or prospective options) in the event that she loses one and/or her ability to have these options in a social setting. In otherwords, it is imperatively within a woman's best interest, both biologically and socially, to in fact confuse men with 'mixed signals' in her words and behaviors in order to keep a consistent level of sufficient anxiety in order to have a larger pool of mate from which to compare and select from.

Human cultures globally have societal institutions, ethics, traditions and rituals that serve latent functions for intergender selection; confusing men with regard to intent is one of them for western cultures. Like a constant sh!t test, essentially it serves as a filter for women to help determine which man is preferable to another by judging response to their contradiction in behavior and stated intent. And the very fact that it is a topic on this forum is a testament to it's proven efficiency.

 

[flexion_]

Women know what they want EMOTIONALLY.

But they don't know what they want in the sense of how men think.

 

[WestCoaster]

Have to disagree ...

... with Flexion and Rollo, though both posts are good.

I've yet to meet more than perhaps 10 women on this earth who can distinctly identify what they want emotionally. They can reiterate the hollywood cliches of "soulmate" and "companion" and the guy has to have a sense of humor. Pushed a little deeper and asking them to identify it, they really can't.

In my internship at grad school, I counseled some college women and men having difficulties with various things. In relationships, the guys could always identify why they liked a woman and what went wrong in a rather detailed, deep way. The women said what they liked about a guy was something as off-beat as "we were out with a group of people and he was soooooo funny." Yeah, that's a good reason to date someone. They also couldn't pinpoint deeper things about what makes a good mate ... oh, they talk forever, but without substance.

I can also tell you dozens of stories of women who told me, "I thought this is what I wanted in a man, but it wasn't. I was wrong." Most in America are incapable of taking emotions/thoughts/feelings to the next level. They're limited by hollywood cliches.

Women act emotionally on the spur of the moment. I would agree with the sh-t test Rollo talks about, but really in reality, women date, mate, marry a guy because it feels good at THAT MOMENT. I haven't met one woman who has thought about long term possibilities of a mate. "He made me laugh" isn't a good enough reason to marry someone, yet that's the numero reason to marry someone. One of my best friends is hilarious and the women he "made laugh" divorced him (twice divorced) saying, "They tired of his jokes" ... the same jokes that made them marry him.

Why did they marry him? He made them feel good AT THAT MOMENT. With women it's about feeling and emotion at that moment. Most are incapable of looking down the road long term ... sadly, it's not all their fault. They've been sold a bag of goods from fairy tales, movies, books, and their own equally clueless girlfriends.

If you think I'm wrong, go out and meet 10 American women and try to get them to deeply identify their feelings, goals, and what they look for in a mate. Being witty and dressing nice aren't things to hang lifetime relationships on.

 

[booga]

Originally posted by TheGotDamnHNiC
why dont you just find out what she wants be become it? why do you treat every ***** the same way?

I'm no behavioral scientist, I'm just some dope, but in my experience women are hard-wired to want someone stronger than they are, someone they can lean on. If you become some sort of spineless chameleon/metamorph, you have just made yourself into something she will not want. And if you ask them, no, they are not aware of this.

 

[joekerr31]

west,

great post.

perhaps it all comes down to our childhood. Men generally want traits that they saw in their mother. They want a woman who supports them through thick and thin, who shows them attention and love, etc.

and women want traits that their fathers had. so they want a man who bust his butt to provide, who doesnt complain and who is the foundation upon which everything else is built.

i think the big problem that the sexes face is that neither side is prepared to offer these things. women want to raise kids, not their man. and men want to be the pillar of strength for their kids, not their wife.

at the end of the day most people in general act like children - 'gimme gimme gimme'. people fail to recognize that the only way to make a relationship work is 'give give give' - and that ONLY works if both parties have the same attitude.

we knock a lot of guys for being AFCs. I think a lot of AFC traits are good, they only become harmful when they aren't paired with a strong sense of self and a willingness to stand up for your beliefs.

want to give a woman a rose? go ahead i say. and if she doesn't appreciate it, then next her.

the only AFC trait that will kill you is letting a woman have her way. its your life and like burger king says - have it YOUR way. Give because it feels good to give. And don't give to those who don't appreciate receiving.

this 'gimme gimme gimme' society is killing us all in so many ways.

J

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Good points, but you're basing your ideas on personal observations - which in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but try to remove yourself from correlations made from personal experience and look at the whole picture.

As I said before, conditions are what influence judgement and decisions, and these conditions change the importance and priority women place on certain aspects that they say they want under the influence of these conditions. The societal idiom that "changing her mind is a woman's perogative" is yet another socially acceptable failsafe to insure that when a woman contradicts her stated intent with opposite behavior she is held blameless by society and her own ego. From a ground-level, personally involved view this seems to be 'as it should be', but when you look at it from a whole you can understand that it is a very useful tool women have used for centuries to excuse their responses when it appears that they really don't know what they want.

They do know what they want in relation to their personal conditions, even if only subconsciously. When a woman gets drunk and fvcks her BF's best friend, she is only doing something she wanted to do, but the alcohol is a convenient failsafe to excuse the behavior if in fact she is ever discovered. "We got drunk and one thing led to another,.." is simply a rationalization for doing what she 'wanted' to do in the first place, and she could probably pass a polygraph test with regard to whether or not she actually believes the occurance was an accident.

When a woman's conditions change her desires change to reflect them. Go and read through what 18-25 y.o. single women post as being desirable in a male on any singles website. Then look through the profiles of women 30-40 y.o. and then 45+ you'll see a lot of the same, templated, requisites, but each will reflect the commonalities of conditions each demographic finds desirable. The prerequisites for a 20 y.o. girl's intimacy are dramatically different from a 30 y.o. because the younger girl will more likely subscribe to a short term mating schedule whereas the 30 y.o. is interest in a long term schedule. A fat girl knows her condition dictates that her mating options are limited and therefore will adjust what she 'wants' to accomodate this limitation. On the other hand, a more attractive girl will be used to male attention and alter her wants according to her condition. So when a woman uses the " I thought I knew what I wanted,.." defense to justify her behavior, it's not that she doen't know what she wants, it's that her conditions have changed and familiar behaviors no longer satisfy those conditions..

While I will admit that women impulsively react on an emotional level, but this is due far more to their increased capacity for communiccation than a genuine emotional need.

 

[WestCoaster]

Good stuff joekerr

I hate to quote Dr. Laura as I think she's an over-zealous, conservative beyotch, HOWEVER, she has an interesting book called the "care and feeding of husbands" or something like that.

Basically, the entire book is about how men are pretty low maintenance, want a supportive, positive wife, who doesn't fly off the handle, can cook, and be a great mother. They don't ask for a ton more.

Then she reiterates that women (at least American ones) try to fix their man, always complain about their man, nothing is right, they read bad romance novels, watch man-hating TV, and so forth, and get programmed into man hating.

The book shows that women REALLY don't know what they want, but that they are following the whims of society. I don't like Dr. Laura, but in browsing that book, she's right on the money.

Also, women have been given a free pass in terms of some stupid "intuition" they possess, and that they're the kinder, more thoughtful of the sexes. I would disagree totally on that. If women are so intuitive, why do they gravitate towards scum when one can see the break-up/divorce before they barely start dating? Every guy I know is wiser, kinder, and more intuitive than most women I know.

Women's souls today (sadly) are sold to the emotion of the moment, to hollywood, or to appease the opinions of their girlfriends. If you find one who is a deep thinker and can think for themselves, hold on to her because she'll be 1 out of 200.

Wondering what Penkitten's take is on this? She seems to be a rare one who can thnk. I think she said she had a couple of major breakups. I'm wondering what attracted to those men in the first place? Pen? Are you out there?

 

[joekerr31]

rollo,

great post.

let me throw somethign else at you. i think men look at life as a building exercise.

we approach life as a set of goals and challenges. we strive to reach a plateau.

i mean, im 31, and i definitely find myself contemplating my life, mostly career, look down the road to when im 50 and thinking "I want to have 2 million bucks saved and be a Senior VP blah blah" Like as life goes on ill get more money and more power. So for me i assess things in terms of whether something adds or subtracts from that path that im on.

whereas with women, i think they judge things in a much smaller context. They basically are just looking at whether guy a or guy b is who they want to procreate with.

women tend not to have any great ambitions. they are just floating through life. they may take their jobs seriously, but you won't hear a woman talk about "when im 50 blah blah blah"

the other day I was walking with a guy my own age at work and we pass a 100K car and hes like "5 years buddy. 5 years and were going to be driving one of those".

women just don't get same the same thrill out of acheiving goals the way men do. to them life is just one big soap opera.

anyway, im rambling now, but there's something important in what i just said. perhaps someone can better refine it.



J