Do good women exist?

[rugby11]

Work effort and Sometimes Dog's

I'll chime in as a guy who has "one of the good ones".

I'll start by saying that people in general are a disappointment to me, and that's perhaps because I have set my expectations too high. The older I get, the more self-absorbed friends seem to become and the less I can rely on them for camaraderie and genuine moral support. I've always known that most friendships in life are temporary, but I remember when I was younger it was more of a brotherhood rather than a convenience. Part of getting older I suppose, but it's disheartening when you can barely get a buddy to give you his undivided attention for 30 minutes when you are going through some sh!t. People just become too absorbed in their own life to divert their attention, and ultimately you can only rely on yourself, family, and friends, in descending order.

That aside, this is probably a good time in your life to internalize the fact that women are constitutionally different than men, negatively so in many ways. Trust me, you are not the first man on earth to realize women can be deceitful, fickle, superficial, spiteful, and mind-blowingly unaccountable. Men in the Bible were writing about this stuff thousands of years ago.

I think as mentioned above, the overall character of women has taken a turn for the worse in recent decades due to feminism, technology, and societal permissiveness. The reasons really are irrelevant, because this is what we have to deal with today. But back to your point, are there any "good women" left? Of course there are, but you need to adjust your expectations.

Anybody is capable of anything under the right conditions, and if you don't believe that you are deluding yourself. What we can do is mitigate certain factors that dramatically increase the odds of a negative outcome with a woman in the future. There are some obvious ones, like choosing a woman who has never been married, has no kids, has a modest relationship history, no drug/alcohol abuse, etc.....then there are some traits that take a bit more time and life experience to uncover.

How does her mother treat her father? Are they still married?
Does her father wear the pants?
How does she relate to her siblings? What is her birth order?
How many sexual partners has she had? What did she do with them? This will come out eventually if you read between the lines.
Is her father a positive influence on her? How does she relate to men in general?
Does she come from a morally sound background? What were her teen and college years like?


Even if she ticks ALL of these boxes, don't get a false sense of security thinking she is immune to corruption. Remember, anyone is capable of anything under the right conditions. You DO have to manage your female. I know some guys don't like the idea of that, and I didn't use to either, but I've learned this is a reality of life if you don't want your relationship to one day become a pile of sh!t while you are sitting there, a day late and a dollar short, wondering what the hell happened.

Think of a relationship with a woman as you would a dog, or a garden. You wouldn't plant a garden and then leave it completely untended would you? Sure it may be beautiful at first, but eventually nature will take over and the garden will be rife with weeds and pests, spoiling your rewards. A garden needs maintenance to flourish. Similarly with a dog, if you let him just run wild all over the house, jumping on whomever he pleases, getting in to his or that, and sh!tting at his leisure, well, you would have one unruly and undisciplined dog who gives you more headaches than joy. He wouldn't respect you. A dog needs the right measure of discipline, and he will love you for it.

Women were made to be led. And with the right measure of discipline, affection, and leadership, you can cultivate a relationship where she respects you, loves you, and cares for you. Of course you need to start with good stock---the adage you cant turn a ho into a housewife is incredibly true. But I think the problem many guys run into who have found ostensibly "good" women is that they relax and sit back on their laurels. They think their work is over once they've secured her. They think they can be themselves, let her be herself, and everything will be just wonderful for the rest of their lives. Brother, nothing could be further from the truth.

Proper selection of your female is a critical, rate-limiting step. But without LEADERSHIP (influence), discipline (consequences for violating boundaries), and affection (the lovey stuff that's easy), even the most well-bred female will eventually lose respect for you and be seduced by the gynocentric hordes we are surrounded by today. This isn't 1814 and we don't live on secluded farms anymore. Women are constantly being influenced, and they are easily corruptible. If you don't lead an active dominant role in her life, than you are just biding your time until the next bad outcome.

At 26 this resonates with me wonderfully. Thank you for the words that comes with it.

 

[BadNews]

http://returnofqueens.com/what-to-do-if-youve-slept-around-but-have-finally-found-the-right-guy/

The evil is real. The more I think about it, the less good women I believe there actually are in this day and age.

Lets be so bold as to say 20% of females aren't *****s. Of that 20% you're probably only going to find 1% of them to be what you're looking for physically. Even less so when you take personality into consideration.

I believe for me to find the "right woman" I'm likely looking at less than 0.1% of the female population. Not looking good.

 

[BadNews]

I honestly don't see my standards lowering, ever. I have extremely high expectations for what I want out of a woman, and honestly, I am simply not willing to forego them. I know what I can get, and what I deserve...just seems like it's going to be nearly impossible to find. NEARLY..I guess I have to retain some hope that I'll find it.

 

[BadNews]

It just occurred to me that once you factor in women that are in your age range, and considering that most of the "good ones" are probably already married or in a committed relationship the numbers drop drastically. In my city, of roughly 1.2 million people, I'm probably looking at 500, maybe 1000 women tops that will be compatible with me...

 

[dasein]

I honestly don't see my standards lowering, ever. I have extremely high expectations for what I want out of a woman, and honestly, I am simply not willing to forego them. I know what I can get, and what I deserve...just seems like it's going to be nearly impossible to find. NEARLY..I guess I have to retain some hope that I'll find it.

1. First question to wrestle with is how important is having a family and children to you and why? If it's "just because" or "something I want," or "time to settle down," then you need to really get down and wrestle with that question, as it is the most risky choice you will ever make. You are basically making a bet at 5:1 odds with uncertain payout... if the courtship and dating are perfect, 10:1 with ANY material issues or problems. How strongly do you need to feel about a life goal to make a 5:1 or 10:1 bet? Are there other higher payout goals you could consider, or must it be family and children? For example, "have wife and children with little control of longterm outcome or success," or "live in 8 different places for 5 years each at a high standard of living, always having the nicer things in life and never worrying about obligations to others with much more control and chance of success?" Have you really thought out your goals? Once you have and the answer is still "wife and kids for me!" then so be it.

2. The tiny smidgen of women who are suitable to give a man that goal in current US culture are almost never out in bars or clubs. You will find them in gyms at 7, or out running. They will be involved in local social circles and charities. They may have made some mistakes in selection in the past, but key is that they learned early, didn't have kids or get married, and do not repeat their mistakes. They will not have "party people" and especially not drug dealers, ravers, etc., in their social circle... none, and they won't tolerate that in your social circles. They will often be school teachers, secretaries, midlevel corporate, HR, marketing, not corporate ladder climbers, doctors, lawyers, finance. They will absolutely, certainly, without a doubt -not- proclaim themselves to be feminists. Most will vote Republican.

A biggie is that they won't be perceived as "fun" or "cool," maybe even plain other than health and physical shape. People may say they are stuck up or snobby. They aren't going to go run around town with you getting drunk and partying, they don't do that. They may be very busy and constantly on the telecomm during work hours, but after work, they won't be glued to a phone or FB. Their standards will be just as high as yours, so you better measure up in every way too. They are generally from traditional two-parent homes, they will have a solid, but not spoiled relationship with parents, and they will generally be upper middle class background but paying their own way or most of it. IME there may be 5 of these in your age range per 100,000 population in your reach. 4.5 of them and their families will think you are not good enough. So basically you're looking at .5 per 100,000. If "1" is REALLY and TRULY your goal, you have TONS of work ahead.

... to get to make a 5:1 bet against your success that you have little or no control over (she has 90% control once the ring is on). Think carefully. We are all creatures of history, and subject to the hand we are dealt. As good as this moment is in history for men in many ways, it is LOUSY in others. Going against the grain is a longshot, but the good news is that happiness is found in 100 different paths, not just one. Think carefully.

 

[logicallefty]

http://returnofqueens.com/what-to-do-if-youve-slept-around-but-have-finally-found-the-right-guy/

The evil is real. The more I think about it, the less good women I believe there actually are in this day and age.

Lets be so bold as to say 20% of females aren't *****s. Of that 20% you're probably only going to find 1% of them to be what you're looking for physically. Even less so when you take personality into consideration.

I believe for me to find the "right woman" I'm likely looking at less than 0.1% of the female population. Not looking good.

^^^I agree with this^^^

Thinking there are no good women is extreme.

But thinking that good women are out there everywhere per se means you are blind. Normal women are out there everywhere, but not good ones.

The "normal" women of 2014 are liars, cheater, wh0res, emotionally scared, vindictive, etc, etc, etc.

The good women of 2014 are like finding a lost marble on a sandy beach.

Sure, its possible to find the marble, but be prepared to work your a$$ off and sift through a lot of nearly useless sand before finding the marble.

I say 'nearly useless sand' because the sand has a few good uses for you.

- You can take a $hit in it and 'bury your load'

- You can build a temporary sand castle and have some fun with it, for a limit number of days, but it won't be there forever.

- You can lay in it and have some temporary relaxation for the day


That's about it I think

 

[Colossus]

2. The tiny smidgen of women who are suitable to give a man that goal in current US culture are almost never out in bars or clubs. You will find them in gyms at 7, or out running. They will be involved in local social circles and charities. They may have made some mistakes in selection in the past, but key is that they learned early, didn't have kids or get married, and do not repeat their mistakes. They will not have "party people" and especially not drug dealers, ravers, etc., in their social circle... none, and they won't tolerate that in your social circles. They will often be school teachers, secretaries, midlevel corporate, HR, marketing, not corporate ladder climbers, doctors, lawyers, finance. They will absolutely, certainly, without a doubt -not- proclaim themselves to be feminists. Most will vote Republican.

A biggie is that they won't be perceived as "fun" or "cool," maybe even plain other than health and physical shape. People may say they are stuck up or snobby. They aren't going to go run around town with you getting drunk and partying, they don't do that. They may be very busy and constantly on the telecomm during work hours, but after work, they won't be glued to a phone or FB. Their standards will be just as high as yours, so you better measure up in every way too. They are generally from traditional two-parent homes, they will have a solid, but not spoiled relationship with parents, and they will generally be upper middle class background but paying their own way or most of it. IME there may be 5 of these in your age range per 100,000 population in your reach. 4.5 of them and their families will think you are not good enough. So basically you're looking at .5 per 100,000. If "1" is REALLY and TRULY your goal, you have TONS of work ahead.

Solid, realistic take. All of the above bolded blue points my gf (now fiance) has, and had BEFORE I met her. In addition to all that, she grew up in a tiny Michigan town, went through a short "party" phase that wasn't really a party phase by modern standards, was very involved in church youth groups as a teen which kept her social circle clean, didn't do the whole college experience (some college but not 4 year uni), had dated VERY minimally (was still a virgin when we met, at 25), and had rather high standards when we met as well.

Like you said, she could be glossed over in a crowd. Not because she isn't pretty (she is quite pretty), but she just doesn't fit the standard mid-20's American female prototype. Wears dresses, very demure, not attention-seeking.

We actually met online, but it was her brief and only foray into online dating that had lasted about 1-2 months before we met. I know what Oneitis is, but I'm also experienced enough to know that she is quite literally 1 in probably 200,000. So yes, while the old sosuave adage is 'there are always more women' is true, this is only true of the common ore. Gems like her are, IMO, once in a lifetime if you are lucky. And this is coming from a guy who has dated a large cross section of society and laid dozens and dozens of women. Not to say I was some alpha pimp, but I definitely had a big heaping plateful and then seconds of what is out there.

The only advice I could really give for finding a girl like this is to 1) don't lower your standards, 2) look in unconventional places, 3) be high value yourself, and 4) keep getting back in that saddle.

There is no hidden shortcut, unfortunately.

 

[BadNews]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate them. Dasein - I've had enough experience with different flings and LTRs that I'm quite positive a wife and family is something that is very important to me in life. Moreover, finding that 5:1 or 10:1 odds girl that I can legitimately have a lifelong, rewarding, committed relationship with is what I want. It's a long shot to be sure, but the "undetermined payout" is huge. I felt like I was "there" with my most recent ex. I had never had feelings, or a connection, with anyone in my life like I had with her, ever. Either she wasn't "it" for me, or the timing was just completely off for us in life (see my other post,) either way, after having felt what that COULD potentially be like, I want it. It's hard to explain, but for me sharing a connection like that with someone is hard to beat.

This whole idea of trying to find a "good woman" has really been getting me down since our breakup as, like you say, the odds aren't good. It's depressing to think I may not find a good woman who fits into my extremely high standards, or that I may never genuinely feel the same way about. Before I'd met her I had been in a 5.5 year relationship, and a few relationships lasting between 1-2 years, and I had NEVER felt how I did with any of them as I did with this one. I honestly didn't even know that I could feel how I did, it wasn't even something that was imaginable, as I had never experienced a connection like that. I know I know, there's plenty of fish in the sea, but honestly, there really aren't THAT many that are going to fulfil my specific desires in life.

 

[Prime_Beef]

This is decent advice. I found and married a decent one by dating within the parameters. ..i.e. I had high expectations; I wanted someone with a degree, a stable job, preferably homeowner or at least living on her own with ability to own, no kids, no divorce, past cohabitation patterns, above all, honest, diligent,generous, flexible and with integrity. My first date focus shifted from getting laid and fun to finding someone capable of being serious, being a mother to my future child.

I refused many a second date on screening them. Also refused many sexual advances. Why? I didn't want to take a chance at being addicted to great sex with wrong person, and I wanted to ensure I was cooked, locked, ready to rock when the right one appeared. In a word, I became serious.

These women are out there sorting thru flakes just like you. Be aware, most WANT CHILDREN at some point. Date women whose jobs and day to day activities don't place them in direct contact with lots of men. Female cop with male partner for example. Sales woman with traveling buddies..

Also be prepared to date out of your ethnicity. Here in CA, many of the local white chicks are not up to snuff. I met my future wife locally, she is Asian. Had I not been open to the idea of dating out my race I would have missed out.

Luck = opportunity (random mtg) + preparation ( you being a man with your act together and thus desired )

 

[Bible_Belt]

I don't see women as good or bad, because I don't see people that way. No one is purely either one. It's a spectrum and a lot of gray areas that vary with circumstances.

I grew up with a kid who ended up being a serial killer/mass murderer. I never did think he was that bad of a guy. He just got caught up with the wrong crowd, did the wrong drugs, and made the wrong decisions. I wouldn't call him a great example of morality, but I've met a lot of much worse people who were not in jail.

I'd say every woman has a certain percentage of wh0re in her. That sounds jaded, but on the bright side, that percentage does go up and down over the course of her life. Lots of college girls who were hos to frat guys grow up to be faithful wives to their wage slave husbands. Maybe it's hormones.