Do a large percentage of Western men want to get married?

[azanon]

Azanon. Do you feel the benefits of marriage are INTRINSIC values your wife has or how you feel about BEING married itself?

And as a corollary..should your marriage end 2 years from now acrimoniously, would you look back and feel the benefits of the marriage were worthwhile?

As for myself, I'm 30/70 on marriage. Should the right girl come along...maybe I'd think about it....but the way the state just owns your azz as a man after marriage is just heinous.

Burroughs, the benefits of my marriage are definitely based the intrinsic values my wife has. The (A) marriage itself can range anywhere from a tremendous benefit, to your worst nightmare, depending on who you marry.

If my marriage ended, yes it would have been a benefit for sure. In short, my life is better, easier, and more pleasant with her than anything I would gain if I were to suddenly become single. I would lose a lot of money in a divorce, but in line with what I posted earlier, she is deserving of half anyway so I think of it as hers anyway. I also save enough that I would have what I needed if I were to only get half.

Regarding the "state owning your ass", just do as I said originally. If you're already rich, by god get a pre-nup and a great lawyer to ensure its rock solid. If you're not rich, but you slowly become it IN the marriage, always make sure she is worth half. The moment she is clearly not worth half and it can't be fixed, cut your losses and move on.

I'm sorry, but if "your wife" takes half and she ripped you off in doing so, then YOU (meaning anyone) screwed up because you were married to some girl who wasn't pulling her weight in the first damn place! And to be clear, I don't necessarily mean she has to make as much money as you do, but if not, then she should clearly being doing other things to compensate and bring equality in the marriage.

 

[azanon]

Azanon,

So if you are a smart, ambitious man who gets ahead in the Corporate world, continuing to bring larger and larger sums of money into the household......

How would you recommend that your wife "keep up" with contributing equally to the marriage?

To be able to answer this question, I'd have to price full time maids for starters. I haven't, for instance, washed clothes or ironed any clothing in 15 years. Then I'd have to somehow price sex on demand from a fit and STD free woman with a BMI of about 20 while considering that I can safely do so without a condom. Then I'd have to price what it would cost for someone to virtually have and raise my child (not to say I don't contribute). Then somehow I'd have to price the emotional and loving support that has most certainly contributed to my ability to succeed in the corporate world. Then, I'd have to, of course, add the salary that she makes which is about half of mine.

I could do all of that, or just know without doing the math that it, at worst, is an even tradeoff and, at best, comes out in my favor.

To say a bit more about the finances, as long as we are married, I would find it far easier to build net worth collectively than I would single. It is, for example, much cheaper for two people to live together than it is for 2 individuals to live separately. That is well documented, if not common sense, especially when both earn a living.

Do I sometimes daydream what it would be like to be single and be able to game women? Sure I do. But then the little things occur to me, such as having to wear a condom (I hate that), and I'm reminded that wasn't so great after all. I was never able to get the sex part from a woman without getting some sort of unwanted drama along with it. To you guys who can pull that off, I tip my hat to you.

For you guys who get married, the key to having a fit wife long-term is staying fit yourself. If you marry a young one, you can literally raise her in a manner of speaking. My wife never worked out before I met her.

Why would she suddenly feel the need to contribute more when she never had to before?

The answer to your second (presumably rhetorical) question is that she probably won't suddenly contribute more. That's why I'd advise whoever is in that position to find a good lawyer and get a divorce. Danger, there are a truckload of men in a failed marriage that are wasting their time, money, and energy on an undeserving woman. Or probably more accurately, there are a truckload of men who married a woman that they should have never married in the first place.

 

[Strelok]

Im completely fine being myself the breadwinner and the only one bringing goods at home as long as she does her part as woman.

However two parts cannot deal the appropriate way if theres a stronger third part who always face with one of the two.
I'm talking about the law who always side with the woman, no matter what no matter how, in fact I'm sure this is the biggest reason to avoid marriage.
The balance is simply doped from the system that expect a part to take most of the duties while grant the other part most of the rights, let alone the case of divorces.

Law in many cases is to marriage what socialism is to economy, some kind of fairiness uthopia that degenerated into something stupid and senseless even for a sci-fi movie.

 

[azanon]

Im completely fine being myself the breadwinner and the only one bringing goods at home as long as she does her part as woman.

However two parts cannot deal the appropriate way if theres a stronger third part who always face with one of the two.
I'm talking about the law who always side with the woman, no matter what no matter how, in fact I'm sure this is the biggest reason to avoid marriage.
The balance is simply doped from the system that expect a part to take most of the duties while grant the other part most of the rights, let alone the case of divorces.

Law in many cases is to marriage what socialism is to economy, some kind of fairiness uthopia that degenerated into something stupid and senseless even for a sci-fi movie.

I'm no divorce expert, but of the few that I have personal knowledge of, the finances are typically split in half, with slight variation. This gets into my advise of always making sure your woman is worth half. If she gets half and isn't worth it (regardless of whether she actually works), then that's your fault anyway, not the state's. MAYBE the state requires half because when they think of a marriage, they are assuming both are contributing half, like they should be?

If you marry a woman with significant net worth, and she doesn't have anything (or worse, debt), then that's you're own damn fault. Don't blame the state for requiring you to pay stupid tax.

The other part you mention - "rights" - I presume to be related to children. Here's my thought on that. If you can come up with a better way to have and raise children than through a marriage, then let me and everyone else here know how to do that. Until then, I fail to see any point you're making other than perhaps an argument that one should never have children. But some (like me) want children, so we do that the best way we know how. I get a s***load of joy raising my son who looks like a mini-me. Try to put a price tag on that one!

 

[Strelok]

I'm no divorce expert, but of the few that I have personal knowledge of, the finances are typically split in half, with slight variation. This gets into my advise of always making sure your woman is worth half. If she gets half and isn't worth it (regardless of whether she actually works), then that's your fault anyway, not the state's. MAYBE the state requires half because when they think of a marriage, they are assuming both are contributing half, like they should be?

If you marry a woman with significant net worth, and she doesn't have anything (or worse, debt), then that's you're own damn fault. Don't blame the state for requiring you to pay stupid tax.

The other part you mention - "rights" - I presume to be related to children. Here's my thought on that. If you can come up with a better way to have and raise children than through a marriage, then let me and everyone else here know how to do that. Until then, I fail to see any point you're making other than perhaps an argument that one should never have children. But some (like me) want children, so we do that the best way we know how. I get a s***load of joy raising my son who looks like a mini-me. Try to put a price tag on that one!

Read what danger said, he made a synthesis of what I was going to reply.

Point is the fact that there is only a way to do something doesnt mean that way is fair and doesnt need anyone to try to improve it.

I blame the state because if she decides that Im boring and leaves me, the gov is gonna make sure she gets the custody and half of my money while I did no wrong.
The woman always gets the kids, they say the kids are more attached to the mother than the father however when their diapers need to be changed they "somehow" forget what they think and call me sexist if I say its a mom thing.

 

[azanon]

I find it interesting that you presume that the wife is performing full-time maid duties, giving sex on demand while also being attractive, and that the woman is somehow entitled to some benefit merely for sharing in the raising of the child. Not to mention that the Man must pay somehow for the Woman having his child, as opposed to the Woman having to give something for the Man's donation to the baby.

It's unfortunate (for you) that I'm familiar with the psychology of the straw man argument. That accusation is more complementary than merely presuming that you didn't comprehend what I actually said. In any event, my interest in continuing the discussion has come to a close.

 

[AAAgent]

Not sure if I'm considered Western or Eastern, but i'm Asian but born and raised in the US.

Do I want to get married, I think so but just not right now. As a child all i thought about was finding my soulmate and when i got into my first serious relationship it was great to have a companion. When it ended that's when it got ugly and I've since learned alot of things and haven't been in a serious relationship since or even had a relationship at all.

The main reason is that I know I get emotionally attached so now i always limit my involvement if i see a sign of danger. Knowing that when i get attached, the woman will have the power to dictate/destroy my life. This clearly isn't something I want to happen again. Since then, i've dated, hookedup, fvcked, etc. Anytime a girl tried to move somewhere where i was uncomfortable i told her polite no and moved on.

The reason i do this is because, my career is just starting out. If i get emotionally involved, i lose my clear sight of my goals and they are harder to achieve when you have other priorities. So my first goal is to get my career in order so that i can properly juggle both when the time comes.

The second goal before settling down is to amass a fortune or as much of a fortune that i can so i can be stable and provide. Not only does this benefit me and my family but if i were to get married and she left me, i wouldn't be some bum on the street. When my last relationship ended i had no money and couldn't even go out to meet people/have fun because i couldn't afford it. That sucked.

Third, i'm still pretty young in my mid twenties, i don't plan on settling down before 1 + 2 are reached and not until i've learned to master/control my emotions at a reasonable level. If I can maintain control over myself, i will be able to dictate the terms of my relationships/marriage. So my third goal is to wait till i'm older and more experienced. So my next step is to move on from meaningless encounters and to have controlled relationships where i can learn and improve myself before i get married.

I'm less worried about the woman as I am myself. I'm going to choose the woman and since i'm not a retard, i will be choosing a woman of great calibur. Not an uneducated whiny gold-digger.

So i'm not sure if I will get married anymore because i need to acheive these 3 goals before I will consider it, that and i need to find that great woman that will meet my criteria as well.

I'm perfectly fine alone as I wouldn't have to worry about the drama that comes with women and can focus on my goals, which are far ahead of me.

 

[The_411]

Marriage is a soceital conceptualization that people do because others before them have done it. Society has become more about squaeezing blood from a stone while ethics have fallen by the wayside. Similar to many of the archaic laws in the US they were created for that period of time but as time changes the laws are no longer relevant and need changing. I'm sure the 50/50 split was designed when women weren't able to get jobs very easily and were basically screwed if and when their husbands wanted to leave the marriage. Problem is that no there is no such dynamic and women have nearly an equilvalent ability to earn a living save for of course the statistical outlier of professional athlete. However 99.9% are just as capable to get a job and a failure to do has nothing to do with gender but rather failings on one's part.

There will be case law that will challenge the current laws regarding the 50/50split as some man will file a lawsuit asserting that he was discriminated against on the basis of gender and therefore said law violates gender equity laws.

 

[FairShake]

I hope more men get married in the West. I look at my generation, especially men, and it isn't "centered." They really have nothing to live for except drinking, video games, and the occasional slut for bedding. This isn't behavior that keeps the world spinning. It doesn't cause innovation or provoke ambition.

As sh!tty as marriage can be, it does ground alot of guys into a positive lifestyle. Regardless of what amateur sociobiologists tell me I think marriage is the natural evolutionary step for men, just because of how ruinous a single life is for so many (company here excluded).

You just have to do it on YOUR terms.

 

[Strelok]

I hope more men get married in the West. I look at my generation, especially men, and it isn't "centered." They really have nothing to live for except drinking, video games, and the occasional slut for bedding. This isn't behavior that keeps the world spinning. It doesn't cause innovation or provoke ambition.

As sh!tty as marriage can be, it does ground alot of guys into a positive lifestyle. Regardless of what amateur sociobiologists tell me I think marriage is the natural evolutionary step for men, just because of how ruinous a single life is for so many (company here excluded).

You just have to do it on YOUR terms.

You actually have a point, marriage serves society in the fact that put men in a certain position where their way to do wrongs is limited while at the same time they are forced to take part in society rules and be part of the system.

Society actually lives on enslaved betas living a crappy life while serving the system, the problem now is the increasing number of unproductive parasites and the number of enslaved betas decreasing for various reasons(among this reasons the fact that living that safe crappy life doesnt even grant anymore to them a woman or some respect as it was in past).

The last thing a society need are men looking for better conditions unwilling to play by the rules, that would lead to unstable times.

 

[Burroughs]

marraige, however, is a relatively new social phenomenon, designed by women, for women, ensuring them a lifetime of financial and social security.

.

Actually in historical terms, marriage is a tool INVENTED BY MEN to SECURE WOMEN AS PROPERTY...In Islam and rural Hindu culture it is still this way. It is the modern westernized version of 'marriage' that gives power to women to render the man A FINANCIAL TOOL OF THE STATE.

What does this do?

It makes the man BEHOLDEN to the SPENDING HABITS of the woman he 'marries'. Since women vastly outspend men (using the man's money no less) this benefits the business and the state. The economy is lubricated by man's desperation to please women.

Don't believe me?

Go Christmas shopping...look at the women and then look at the men who are obediently by their side.

 

[Burroughs]

Espi I agree with what you are saying in terms of modern men...but from a historical context men controlled their woman like a master controls a working dog.

In cultures as diverse as Greece, Rome, S India, China A woman LIVED TO PLEASE HER MAN...any straying from this paradigm and a women was killed instantly or left to starve in the cold. You could look at Islam as a current example. I have friends who just returned from serving overseas, they sound downright shocked when they saw how OBEDIENT Iraqi women were towards their husbands. COoking full dishes of roast lamb, salad, chicken, every day...tolerating multiple wives. And don't believe the hype a lot of those veiled chicks look like Kim K underneath, flawless makeup, everything. I've seen the pictures.

THis is why women developed such POWERFUL COVERT MEANS for controlling men...because MEN USED OVERT MEANS to control women. In the middle ages, A women could use all the subtle mind games she wants but if she went to far you beat her until she learned obedience.

Espi Oprah is a lesbian. ..Stedman was just for show