DJ technique turns sour - need help deciphering illogical ********

[duke007]

This was the fourth date with the older woman. After making out twice already, time is running out for me to lay this girl before I get in too deep. You can read about what has happened so far here:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65752

The date went fine, nothing out of the ordinary to report except that she confirmed her age for me (28).

So let's fast forward to the end of the night when we snuck past the c0ckblocking roommate by entering the backdoor and going straight to her bedroom. At this stage I wasn't overly excited because she'd already told me that it was a work night and couldn't stay up too late like last time. In fact I shouldn't even have accepted the invite.

We start making out and I'm kissing and breathing on her neck from behind. Way better vibe than last time when she kept giggling. This is really turning her on - heavy breathing, racing heartbeat - but I screw it up by changing position and she falls back to earth. Still, I continue to caress her but when I try to put my hand up her dress (up to belly not to grope crotch) she pulls it out and acts as if she's finished!

It's hard to remember exactly what was said but it went something like is:

Me: "Isn't that turning you on?"
Her: "I was turned on when you were doing that to my neck"
Me: *moves to do it again*
Her: "No not now, but remember it"
Me (pissed off but not showing it): "How come?"
Her: "I'm satisfied"
Me: "Really?"
Her: "Yeah"
Me: "You mean satisfied satisfied?"
Her: "Yeah"
Me: "Impossible"
Her: "OK more like content"
Me: "Oh for a moment I thought you were implying you orgasmed"
Her: "I don't need to have sex to orgasm"

It seemed she was happy with that . She notices my boner and makes some comment so I say with a smile, "Are you being a d1cktease?" She doesn't take this as a hint to make a move but asks something stupid like, "Aren't you just happy with kissing and touching?" Once again I should have asserted myself but I just defused the situation by saying, "I'm always happy, remember?" (We talked about this before)

Soon after she mentions the time when I cold approached her and said I came across as a player. I mocked surprise and then she said that since she met me I didn't act like a player. But then she comes out with a terrible sh1t test - "What are your beliefs on monogamy?"

I ducked out of the question with something general - that cheating is wrong in LTRs. Then I managed to shift the convo and felt quite relieved until she said, "But you never answered the question" So I told her I hate it when women have numerous "cuddle b1tches" (didn't use that term) who they use to feed their own egos. Once again the convo shifted but still she said, "Hang on, you didn't answer the question"

I told her it's a bit forward to be asking these kind of questions and said I make it a point to be vague when women try to run tests on me. Then I turned the tables by mentioning her unwillingness to divulge her age as being similar. This might have been bad but what else was I to do....she was so bloody persistant.

Maybe 10 minutes later something really gets to me. She says, "I might have to kick you out soon because I need to go to bed at a reasonable hour" It wasn't yet midnight. I needed to reclaim all the power I lost! We mindlessly chatted for 5 minutes, before I pulled her closer and said, "Let's kiss once more"

But I didn't just kiss. I made out with her as passionately as I could. I went faster and faster and got her more turned on than she was before! She was basically writhing around and breathing out of control when I pulled back and said while smiling cheekily, "OK bedtime for *name*.........would you like me to tuck you in?"

It took a while to put my shoes on and walk to the door, by which time I could tell how upset she was. I told her she was going to kick me out anyway so it was time to leave. She had sad puppydog eyes and looked on the verge of tears! Sh1t I was taken aback at how effective my move was. She said I acted plain rude and wanted me to apologise, so I looked her in the eye and said, "I'm unable to apologise when I feel I've done nothing wrong"

I left and soon after got this text message:

"That's so weird, confusing and upsetting to up and leave in the middle of being intimate! All that building of openness and trust stomped on in a rush to get out the door - yes it may have been time to go but in the appropriate manner, anyway, yes time 4 sleep and I know you dislike SMS so talk later, aahg!"

Sheesh, talk about double standards! Dealing with 18-21yo female sh1t is simple but you need a f*ckin degree to handle a 28yo who doesn't want to take control like older woman are supposed to do!

Should I answer this bullsh1t SMS or just ignore it and pretend it never happened? How should I handle this situation?

 

[So Many Ways]

I dunno, but it seems like you handled the situation well to me.

 

[johnny_chase]

Booyakasha! I dont want to sound like a Keyboard Jockey, but i'll take a swing at this...

Playing it good so far. Not pressuring the sex. Getting her hot and ****, and then just up and leaving. But, she is 28, and you are 21. She must realise this. Asking you questions about monogamy (marriage) and **** like that is just awkward. The worst part is that she nagged your a$$ about it.

She wants to make sure she isnt just a trophy on the wall, that you want to fcuk and dump. You know, she figured you are a "player", trying to impress your friends. Now, from your last posts, it's obvious you jsut want something physical, correct?

"I dont need to have sex to orgasm". I've yet to meet a chick that dosent need some sort of direct stimulation orgasm. I agree, a lot of it is mental, but still. Maybe she is just getting really excited and enjoying the moment, but she is definitely not cumming. She is "content".

All i can say, is make the transition right. I dont know how, i dont know this girl, but dont stop all of the sudden. Go to her neck, and then keep on going, dont stop there, but dont be too direct all of the sudden, gradual teasing.

Be careful though, this one wants more than physicality. "Arent you jsut happy with kissing" means i want to get to know you before we do anything serious.


As it stands though, i think you played it out good, tease the fcuking **** out of her, so her brain is ready to explode

 

[duke007]

Update

I didn't answer the SMS - no need to lower myself like an AFC.

Just this evening she sent me another one:
"Ciao duke007! If ur still up for a chat/clearing of the airways, I'll be home at 9:30pm, going to bed at 10:30pm "

Hmmm no thankyou I sent her this:

"No need for that. I'm at a mate's place tonight, I'll be in touch sometime midweek. Ciao bella!"

And she replies:

"Well I guess that means ur fine, i'm still confused, been feeling ****ty, but not all day - italian was a laugh."

Talking about this "event" is probably unavoidable. I might try to imply that she's only upset because I didn't please her enough. Something like, "So if it's just SEX you want, you should just ask.....sheesh you women are only after one thing! "

 

[Golden Arms]

LOL, good job

But it'd be funny if you replied to her SMS with "Aren't you happy with just kissing?"



I am sure you'll be laying her in no time, just don't let her go too cold

 

[Desdinova]

She wants to make sure she isnt just a trophy on the wall, that you want to fcuk and dump.

I agree with this point. She's got her head focussed on a LTR.

Now, since she doesn't just wanna be another fvck, your best bet is to play into that. She wants the fvcking ball in her court, throw it at her head. It involves a lot of self-control. Do everything you can to get her all hot and bothered, but don't fvck her. Make her beg for it. Become the one in control of whether the two of you have sex or not. After she begs you to fvck her, fvck her. After the first time, you'll be the one deciding whether to have sex or not.

 

[Kaine]

Good observations and feedback in the last few posts

She is definately playing mind games with you, she using s3x to increase her value and take back control Do not let her percieve that is what you want (verbally).

Keep pushing physically. Try not to talk about it, unless you are seducing her with words. Do not talk about it, just do.

This was a mistake::
Me: "Isn't that turning you on?"
Who is qualifying who here?

Desdinova is half right, DO get her hot and bothered. S3xually Tease her so she is aching for it. BUT if you can lay her, DO IT.

The good thing is she is still VERY interested.

Keep it up and the updates

Kaine

 

[AverageFC]

sounds like you handled it well

Booyakasha!

I's be Ali G makin *****es touch their poonnanny

 

[A-Unit]

Ways to Handle it.

Pretty good, though you seemed a little tense or anxious at points.

Me (pissed off but not showing it): "How come?"

In a hot, heavy moment, a quick way to deflate it is to ask semi-serious questions.

"Are you being a d1cktease?"

Don't know if I'd have gone that route either, because it generally implies 'player.' Might have been smarter to turn her on, OR, just be ok with whatever the outcome is. At some point, you'll build enough tension that she'd burst and do anything.



Deflecting questions is never a good idea. Sure, you can play with them and say...

"Monogamy? Don't you mean polygamy? Remember, I'm a man baby, and we get better with age. So with me, it's all up from here."

AND THEN...work your way into succinctly answering her questions.

An older gal, 10 years older than I, 34, asked me:

"So I want to get more physical, (this after 1 month of dating, i.e. sex), but I want to know what's going on with us?" Implying she wants some semblance of a committed relationship. To deflect that would be childish and small of me. And to play right into it so seriously would have also been wussish.

I ducked out of the question with something general - that cheating is wrong in LTRs. Then I managed to shift the convo and felt quite relieved until she said, "But you never answered the question" So I told her I hate it when women have numerous "cuddle b1tches" (didn't use that term) who they use to feed their own egos. Once again the convo shifted but still she said, "Hang on, you didn't answer the question"

And I probably wouldn't have gone the route of spouting my male opinions on what women do and don't do. EVEN if you are right (which no person wants to admit being wrong), how does that get you any closer to you 2 hooking up?

Consider your goal:

To get closer to this girl so you could get intimate.

Creating negative emotions or deflecting mature topics, throws it all out of whack.

Another point...I have found mature women to become MORE sexually interested when you develop a deep chemistry through convo. Don't wuss out and be so available, but be able to communicate yourself articulately without stomping on other people's toes.

Communication = what the OTHER person interprets from your speaking.

We communicate to elicit something from someone. Dogs bar to speak commands. Because have a higher level of thinking, communicate is a bit more tricky. BUT, we do have the added benefit of understanding and empathy, something that grants us the ability to know, almost ahead of time, what the outcome of communication will be.

The point is...

Women are shyt testing, NOT by the questions, but by your response to their questions. How you respond to those questions determines how you've been shyt tested. So if you freak on a question or something she does, or you worry, or deflect it, or ignore it, it communicates alot, just as I read about friends, or clients.

It's not really the question that matters, as it is the result and how you handle it.

All in all not bad. I wouldn't worry about texting her or not; she obviously likes you, so getting closer is going to be a matter of your cool AND how she feels about someone younger than her.



A-Unit

 

[duke007]

This is all f*cked

I don't know why I bother anymore.

In theory, the actions I took should make her even hotter for me physically. I was expecting her to MAKE SURE I had a reason to stay next time we were intimate.

I called her midweek and she was happy like a little girl again, as if she'd forgotten all about what happened.

Good. We go the cinema and she does all the hand stroking/leg touching bullsh1t. Even better.

But fast forward to the front gate of her house and she seems tentative to invite me in. The c0ckblock is home and makes herself a huge bowl of food at midnight and gets in the way. I have to sit through a DVD episode of "The Young Ones" which almost makes me puke because it's so frickin unfunny. What did I do to deserve this kind of treatment?

I get up to leave and my older woman follows. Once outside we kiss a little bit but she wants to "resolve" our little issue. It turns out she was withholding herself from me until it was discussed.

I tell her that I thought it was already in the past and forgotten about but not according to her. She says she arrived at work late the next day because of it. She also says it felt like I left "while making love". Her use of that term was not overly welcome.......honeymooners make love, dating partners have sex.

I used the joke about her only getting upset because she was left unfulfilled. "You women are all the same....you only want one thing " This got a laugh but she wasn't satisfied. I just made up a whole bunch of bullsh1t that seemed to satisfy her but she seems way too emotionally sensitive.

Throughout this chat I said, "Don't you like a man who takes charge?" She replies, "Yes, but sometimes I like to be in control too"

She wants to meet during the day on the weekend (today or tomorrow). I bring up the fact that the c-ckblock will be gone on Saturday but that is not what she is implying. She wants to enjoy the sun.

F*cked if I'm going to give up my weekend with no guarantee of action. This chick is like a rock....the sad thing is if I was a pathetic AFC I'd easily go along with it and end up in a long-term relationship. It sucks that AFCs end up with girlfriends and all the sex they want while guys with a DJ mindset have to contend with power struggles and end up missing out.

When I got home my sister was watching some wildlife DVD. A big male kingfisher with an awesome set of feathers flies next to a plain-looking female. He proceeds to knock her over the head several times with his beak, flies behind, thrusts rapidly for 2 seconds and the relationship is done. Another female is sitting on the same branch so he does exactly the same to her.

Then the kingfisher flies away content.

And the only things that kept me from wacking off to porn that night was I was so frickin tired and didn't feel like looking at another woman's face.

 

[johnny_chase]

LOL, dude, i told you, SHE WANTS A FCKUING LTR, and there's nothing wrong with that, except that you just want to bone her and stone her. I think you had yer chance when you got her real hot the first time, when she thought you answered the question, then you left and she thought about it so much it got her upset.

She DOES NOT want to be a notch on the bed post.

 

[duke007]

yep johnny you are completely right. I f*cked up trying to play childish power games when all I had to do was slide those panties down when I had the chance.

It's just twigged that that's why she said it felt like I left while making love. She was ready and willing when it happened....the "need to go to bed" talk could have been a form of ASD. Actions speak louder than words.

I rejected her trump card (sex) and it probably made her feel unwanted.

 

[johnny_chase]

actions speak louder than words

This is true. All is not lost however. Now, you werent playing power games, all you did was you called her bluff. She's confused now, because you rejected sex, and guys are supposed to really want sex right, so when they dont want it it's weird? This is their last play, when all else fails, have sex with him. Now, at the time she was satisfied with your answer. Now she is not.

Now, "making love" means she wants sex with a connection.

You wanna know why she was late for work? Because she couldnt figure it out, a guy that didnt want sex? Oh dear, what have i found here?

Dont read too much into what she said. Dont overanalyse. Just STFU, go with the flow. Take charge when necessary. Dont bring it up unless she does. Show her a good time. Be mature about it.

 

[Eggchen]

Excellent replies from everyone.

duke007, it's only natural that you hooked up with this girl with the expectation of losing your virginity - she is older and should be at her sexual peak. I can understand your frustration.

I agree with others that you went overboard with the verbal struggle to demonstrate your power - more kissing and less talking! You have acquired all this DJ wisdom and perhaps you are a little overwhelmed with it all. Sometimes it is better to forget about all this DJ stuff exploding in your head and just accept the situation for what it is and go with the flow - no expectations. You are acting like a 21 year old and that is perfectly normal. You're learning and growing with each experience!

I know it must feel like an epic leading up to losing your virgnity but don't let the frustration eat you up. After you have sex you will see that it isn't that fantastic and all the build up just wasn't worth it! Be prepared for a not so good first experience - all this frustration is likely to lead to performance anxiety when the moment finally does arrive and you may have trouble getting it up - I did.

It's quite obvious that this woman really likes you, and you did upset her before. She hasn't used you as a toyboy so you must be really special to her! What an older sweetheart.

The ball is in your court duke007.

 

[escaleraroyal]

Why do you wanna kiss me?

I don't know how to answer this one. She asked me today.

 

[Warrior74]

I don't know how to answer this one. She asked me today.

Ignore it. Subordinates answer questions. Especially silly ones like that. Explaining your motivations removes the mystery and fun that is giving her 'gina tingles.

Ignore it or respond with a command or something funny.

"bring the movies"
"meet at 8"
"your a better kisser than your sister, that's why"

Calibrate to your target and do that. She's on the hook man, reel her in.

 

[Jariel]

I agree with this point. She's got her head focussed on a LTR.

Now, since she doesn't just wanna be another fvck, your best bet is to play into that. She wants the fvcking ball in her court, throw it at her head. It involves a lot of self-control. Do everything you can to get her all hot and bothered, but don't fvck her. Make her beg for it. Become the one in control of whether the two of you have sex or not. After she begs you to fvck her, fvck her. After the first time, you'll be the one deciding whether to have sex or not.

I echo this. You have to respect her for not being a slvt because I'm sure if she put out too soon you (like most men) would have doubts about her being LTR material.

However, it's always bad for you if she has the control and is using sex as a means of retaining power. Like Desdinova said, you need to flip this around.

Mystery also came up with a great technique he called the Freeze Out or something like that which I've used many times. If you're kissing and getting passionate and she stops you from going any further, you need to stop all caressing and kissing, put some distance between you and casually say "No problem. Let's watch TV" or "That's fine. I should be getting back home now anyway." Be cool about it, not angry or sulky. It's basic reverse psychology and I guarantee she'll be craving your attention, which gives you back your power to decide.