Discerning a Woman's Motives

[MacAvoy]

Alright, here's my thoughts. This relationship is likely doomed. Mainly because of the old adage about women withholding sex after marriage / in an LTR. Look at the main forum for threads about guys not getting enough sex in an LTR. If your not getting enough now, its not going to magically improve in the future.

What I would do is what someone on page 1 recommended. Use your knew found knowledge and skills and just get out there and start banging women. Avoid relationships for a bit, get good at the game. However if a keeper comes along that does everything for you, then consider it.

However this girl obviously has issues, she's using her child as a pawn so she doesn't have to have sex with you.

Welcome to the forum. As for the bible, skim through the titles and read 2-3 articles a day. Don't over do it. Slow and steady won the race.

edit: the really good thing about this is you've found the site and gained the knowledge before its too late. Your not madly in love with this women yet and you can still turn things around. However this relationship likely has its habbits already formed.

 

[Popeye]

Alright, here's my thoughts. This relationship is likely doomed. Mainly because of the old adage about women withholding sex after marriage / in an LTR. Look at the main forum for threads about guys not getting enough sex in an LTR. If your not getting enough now, its not going to magically improve in the future.

What I would do is what someone on page 1 recommended. Use your knew found knowledge and skills and just get out there and start banging women. Avoid relationships for a bit, get good at the game. However if a keeper comes along that does everything for you, then consider it.

However this girl obviously has issues, she's using her child as a pawn so she doesn't have to have sex with you.

Welcome to the forum. As for the bible, skim through the titles and read 2-3 articles a day. Don't over do it. Slow and steady won the race.

edit: the really good thing about this is you've found the site and gained the knowledge before its too late. Your not madly in love with this women yet and you can still turn things around. However this relationship likely has its habbits already formed.

I'm on the same page, but just thought that I might be able to get some practice time in with her before I move on... if not, that's cool, too.

 

[MacAvoy]

Practice away, just be careful not to get sucked in. If you can manage to not get emotionally involved, then by all means, go for it, its perfect practice.

 

[Popeye]

Practice away, just be careful not to get sucked in. If you can manage to not get emotionally involved, then by all means, go for it, its perfect practice.

Right, but what to practice....

 

[guru1000]

Right, but what to practice....

Being a MAN is the foundation of what you are searching for. To truly embrace your masculinity takes time like any other unpracticed art.

Changing from IamaWHIMP to I AM A MAN, is most significant. You are what your internal dialogue tells you.

Your thoughts manifest into actions and become who you are. Just thinking as a MAN and not a whimp, will help direct and guide you to your goal.

Remember it is not the finish line you are running after. It is what you pick up along the way. This is what builds true CHARACTER.

Don't get too hung up on BIBLE STUDY. You are a 31 year old MAN. Now go be a MAN.

 

[Luveno]

Beyond that, I'm still at a loss as to how to get her into the physical side of things. She's physical in public, holding hands etc., but that's already old. Maybe it's too late for this chick and she's not physically interested, in which case I will end up dumping her anyways, as I have before. Only this time it will be faster. Unless there's some implementable steps I can take to test HER.

You are close to the truth here, but your optimism is blinding you.

Actions, or the lack thereof, speak louder than any words.

You think this is salvageable. It is not.


Think about it. Compare each of your situations.

You are: a wealthy(two degrees? Doctor? Lawyer?) man who has been used in the past and has not learned the ways of setting definite boundaries in relationships. You are extremely accomodating and NICE but lack animal instinct and self-worth. You feel the only way to heal the wounds from your previous relationships is to find a woman who can be your "one and only". You also think that if you open up to this woman completely, and try to spend as much time around her as you can, that she will love you more for it.
You respect these women just as you would expect your father to respect your mother. It's only fair, right? (answer: wrong).

She is: a single mother who probably has it a little tougher than she's letting on. She sounds responsible but is kind of sick of having to pay her own bills and settle her own debts, even more now that daddy is out of the picture. She is jealous of her friends because all of her friends are married and living opulent lifestyles without working. However since she is both older, and a mother, her value is decreasing by the second and she knows it! Lo and behold, you are wealthy, accomodating, and interested, which makes you a great insurance plan! So, she's gonna take it slow with you and establish the frames in your relationship, such as when to have sex, and money spending. She's bringing the daughter along to meet her new paycheck...er I mean daddy. Meanwhile, her entitled, young, party persona is meeting and sleeping with other less monetary successful men on the side - they just happen to be more manly. She wants to be violated by these men. She wants the sensitive womanheart (that's you) to support her and her daughter once her sexual value drops.


End this relationship now and work on your self respect.

Start by changing your username to something that isn't so obviously disrespectful to yourself.

 

[betterthandead]

Thanks for this post!

indeed, change the name.

it seems obvious that you are attracting chicks that want you for financial and emotional security. you are a beta male.

while you are giving them the financial and emotional security, she will be fukking ME. btw, i have a PhD in Economics and i make a sh!tload of coin. you are smart and make good money. that's great, but it's also a curse because you have to filter out gold diggers. actually it's pretty easy, but you can work on that later.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ARE YOU TO EVEN CONSIDER AN LTR FOR AT LEAST ONE YEAR.

first things first. ditch your current chick friend, like you did with the other one. she is becoming what the others became. just cut it clean, she's a waste of time.

i will revive an old-school SS idiom that might shock you if you are from LoveSchmuck:

GO OUT AND FUKK 10 CHICKS.

anyhow, anyway, just do it. shoot for the best you can, but...fat, ugly, or whatever, do it. the purpose of this is many fold, but mainly to put you in the right frame of mind regarding women.

read the Bible Material. the link is at the bottom of all pages. many of the posts/concepts are also in the Archives (a wealth of information). TooCold would suggest the following reading material...

Pook's material. he is an infrequent visitor these days, but his material is legendary and spot on.

The Secret of the Jerk.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17008

Kill That Desperation
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16926

Be A Man
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16903

all of Pooks "Anti-Dump Machine" posts. i think there's 8 parts. also read Anti-Dump's original post (i can't seem to find it). do a search for Pook and look for the threads that he originated. same with Anti-Dump.

you must KILL the beta male within you. but you can never completely kill it, it's still within all of us, and it's an on-going process. also remember a DJ is not a Player. a DJ is James Bond. a Player is an insecure loser who lives a miserable life. that is what the hags on LoveSchmuck do not understand.

report back and guys will be glad to help you out. be careful to not get addicted to this site. some guys here live on these boards, theorizing endlessly. get out there and do it. it is also easy to become a bitter woman hater. there are many guys on these boards that are like that (not so much on the Mature Man's though). just watch yourself and don't become one of those.

i am going to disappear for a few months, so good luck to you.

 

[CGE333]

Dash, what do want from this woman? LTR, possibly marriage, or is it just someone you want to fool around with for awhile? Once you know what you want from her, then you can ask yourself if you can get what you want from her the way that she is. I.E. if you want LTR or possible to marry her, think about the type of woman that you would to marry and ask yourself honestly if this woman is what you are really looking for. Heck, maybe even write out a list and ask yourself if she possess the qualities you are looking for and if her behavior is what you'd expect/ want. Her recent actions may be fine if all you are is looking for someone to fool around with for 6 or 12 months....

Also, no disrespect but without knowing you, I can't be convinced that you are just not projecting your own insecurities on her and into the situation.

 

[Popeye]

Also, no disrespect but without knowing you, I can't be convinced that you are just not projecting your own insecurities on her and into the situation.

That's probably part of it.

 

[KarmaSutra]

You are close to the truth here, but your optimism is blinding you.

Actions, or the lack thereof, speak louder than any words.

You think this is salvageable. It is not.


Think about it. Compare each of your situations.

You are: a wealthy(two degrees? Doctor? Lawyer?) man who has been used in the past and has not learned the ways of setting definite boundaries in relationships. You are extremely accomodating and NICE but lack animal instinct and self-worth. You feel the only way to heal the wounds from your previous relationships is to find a woman who can be your "one and only". You also think that if you open up to this woman completely, and try to spend as much time around her as you can, that she will love you more for it.
You respect these women just as you would expect your father to respect your mother. It's only fair, right? (answer: wrong).

She is: a single mother who probably has it a little tougher than she's letting on. She sounds responsible but is kind of sick of having to pay her own bills and settle her own debts, even more now that daddy is out of the picture. She is jealous of her friends because all of her friends are married and living opulent lifestyles without working. However since she is both older, and a mother, her value is decreasing by the second and she knows it! Lo and behold, you are wealthy, accomodating, and interested, which makes you a great insurance plan! So, she's gonna take it slow with you and establish the frames in your relationship, such as when to have sex, and money spending. She's bringing the daughter along to meet her new paycheck...er I mean daddy. Meanwhile, her entitled, young, party persona is meeting and sleeping with other less monetary successful men on the side - they just happen to be more manly. She wants to be violated by these men. She wants the sensitive womanheart (that's you) to support her and her daughter once her sexual value drops.


End this relationship now and work on your self respect.

Start by changing your username to something that isn't so obviously disrespectful to yourself.

Best post yet. Brother Luveno knows his stuff.

 

[Popeye]

Alrighty.... First and foremost, the kind moderators are helping me with my request to change screen names - that's in process.

I did leave out of my last post that we did have sex about a week ago (it was pretty damn good), and after reading more of the DJB and doing some research on interest level, she is exhibiting signs of pretty decent interest level that I was pretty much blind to before coming here:

1) She initiated the sex pretty damn forwardly,
2) After I stopped calling, she still calls every day regardless,
3) She's brought me a gift (a pretty nice wooden duck decoy, which I collect as an avid duck hunter) - this seems to show that she pays attention to what I like?
4) She has bragged about me to her father, sister, and people at her work (her admission)...

After reading some of the posts, I'm getting the impression that it is (in part) my insecurities causing doubt about her interest level.

So, I'm reading through the DJB, I've read some really great stuff, and still having trouble getting the theory into practice.

I have dated a lot before this girl. I don't necessarily go out and bed girls, but I don't have a problem getting enough first dates that I can't be selective.

BUT, I'm STILL having trouble, being gameless, on how to initiate sex.

I'm getting the feeling that she's just a slow mover. She keeps commenting over and over that she's extremely faithful (as if I need to hear this). She doesn't know much about my prior relationships except that I have been married and am divorced.

So - any specifics about how to initiate sex and do this smoothly? It seems a lot of the advice is high level, no specifics, etc....

As far as my goals - want to date her and have fun and see where it goes. I work to much to juggle, but I'm pretty guarded because of past relationships so I don't think I'd get depressed or anything if this doesn't work out.

 

[crashbutnotburn]

Don't worry about where it goes. It's going nowhere, now.

I agree that you need to go out and bang a dozen girls while she's playing with her EZ Bake Oven or whatever the hell it is that immature women do.

And if she calls you late at night -- like, after ten -- tell her you can't talk, you've got company. This, IMO, is the strongest game you could throw at her, short of walking away right the f--k now.

Either way, let her think she's blown it. She'll either fight like hell to get you back, or decide you're not worth playing games with. Because that's what she's doing: playing a game with you. I don't know what game, but it's what women do: games.

Forget about having sex with her. It won't happen until she thinks you're worth it. And whatever you're doing now, being Mr. Nice Guy, is not tripping her trigger, Mr. Duck Hunter.

One other thing: I had a chick friend, a one-time lay in college (spectacular sex, btw) who pulled this crap on me for two solid years -- I was Mr. Nice Guy, study buddy, come-over-and-cuddle-but-no-sex-"I don't think of you that way" -- while she was banging other guys -- and finally I told her to jam it.

About a year after I got married, she called me crying in the middle of the night, sorry for the way she treated me, sorry for everything, for not seeing how great a guy I was.

Three months after I got divorced, she emailed me, having heard about it through a mutual friend. She flew out and spent the weekend. She's become my transcontinental FB -- we're meeting in Vegas in two weeks. It took ten years but she's mine. And how much tail have I had in the interim? I've lost count.

Move on.

If she's worth the trouble, she'll come after you. Eventually. Don't waste a minute until then.

 

[ketostix]

You sound like you as a man have the foundations that interests and attracts women, you just need the icing on the cake. You probably don't need to do anything extreme. It's hard to believe though because you do seem to come across as insecure. But I never was a big believer that being secure or having good inner game was the end all be all to attraction, it's really just a personal end goal. Just be less agreeable to everything and less accomodating and available. As far as initiating sex, when you have isolation you have to look for cues in her body lnguage and just go for it. Maybe ssay something flirty or innuendo like to get her in the mood and to judge her reaction. This question sounds like more insecurity than not knowing what to do lol.

 

[crashbutnotburn]

I wanted to add that, in my experience, women only play games when they think they've got you. They quit with their games once they realize that you may slip away. Then and only then do they have to evaluate whether or not you're worth the effort.

 

[Popeye]

You sound like you as a man have the foundations that interests and attracts women, you just need the icing on the cake. You probably don't need to do anything extreme. It's hard to believe though because you do seem to come across as insecure. But I never was a big believer that being secure or having good inner game was the end all be all to attraction, it's really just a personal end goal. Just be less agreeable to everything and less accomodating and available. As far as initiating sex, when you have isolation you have to look for cues in her body lnguage and just go for it. Maybe ssay something flirty or innuendo like to get her in the mood and to judge her reaction. This question sounds like more insecurity than not knowing what to do lol.

There's no doubt I'm insecure. I've come a long way on my own, but still have a long ass way to go.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Popeye]

Nothing much to add that hasnt already been said but I need to say this:

This site literally changed my life. I hadnt even made out with a chick before I found this site years ago and now I have girls literally begging for my damn number (I get stopped by chicks in the mall if I really look good that day). I am more self confident than I've ever been, and for the first time ever, just truly believe I deserve all the good things I've dreamed about but never thought I'd get due to my low self esteem.

You may seem skeptical of this stuff at first, and yeah a lot of it needs to be taken at face value, but once you can weed out the BS and listen to the guys who know their sh!t (RolloT, Karma, and Interceptor seem to be on the money 100% of the time!), then you will start to see the light. Just PLEASE open your mind and learn and apply this stuff.

Good luck, just finding this site is an improvement over most guys out there.

Deep down, I know I'm a great catch. Something's hanging me up, though.

 

[crashbutnotburn]

Deep down, I know I'm a great catch. Something's hanging me up, though.

It's you.

 

[Popeye]

Lying tramp has been dumped. Moving on.

 

[Mr.Positive]

The medium IS the message.

I hate the term 'Mixed Messages'. More often than not there's nothing 'Mixed' being communicated and rather it's a failure to read what a woman is communicating. The average guy tends to 'get' exactly what a woman has implied with her words, but it takes practice to read her behavior and then more practice in self-control to apply it to his own. When a girl goes from hot to cold and back again, THIS IS the message - she's got buyers regret, you're not her first priority, she's deliberating between you and what she perceives is a better prospect, you were better looking when she was drunk, etc. - the message isn't the 'what ifs', the message IS her own hesitation and how her behavior manifests it. 10 dates before sex? This IS the message. Canceling dates? This IS the message.



This IS the message..

Great post Rollo! and welcome Popeye!

The only thing I'd like to add is your attention, as a man, is your gift to a woman. She needs to earn this. Do not give your time and attention away like a cheap reward by talking to her every single night.

Going on 10 dates with her daughter is not leading...you need to lead more.