Disasterous date sequence - post-mortem analysis for next time?

[Sebastian0001]

Just to be clear, the goal of this post is to learn from past mistakes and not about one-itis. About a year ago, I had a disasterous dating sequence with a woman. I had just got out of a 10 year relationship and had no clue what I was doing. We went on 3 dates (dinner, min-golf, ice-cream) and there were good vibes but I was a pansy and didn't even TRY to make a move. I realized I had messed up so I started texting her more sexually after date 3 and, to my surprise, she responded very well and was into it. She then proceeded to invite me to her apartment for dinner and drinks. I thought I had fixed the situation. However, when I went to her apartment, it wasn't much better. We sat on her rooftop alone and we were on these table chairs. I should have said let's sit on a sofa where it would have been more comfortable to make a move but didn't. I tried to flirt and sexually tease but somehow the topics kept going to boring things like "what is your favorite movie?" and work topics. I moved my seat over close to hers and suggested we look at something on my phone and we did but whenever I tried to pull put my arm around her and pull her closer, she didn't even move. I touched her arm, her wrist, even brushed her hair out of her face, but nothing was happening. We then went from her roof to her apartment room but still no progress. I tried giving her a massage and she said "ooo that feels good" but then 5 seconds later she said "ok now it hurts I'm really boney" and so I stopped. We then just sat on the couch watching a show, and she was so intently watching the show, that I couldn't really make a move. Having been good with women 10 years prior, I could just feel how huge of a fail it was as it was happening. I was invited to a woman's apartment for wine and dinner so how I could I not even get a make-out? I ended up just asking to kiss her at the end of the night and she said yes but it was pathetic. After that, it we were still surprisingly talking but after a couple weeks she said let's be friends.

Here is what I'm wondering for next time:
The obvious answer is to get things intimate ASAP on date 1, but what could I have done better at her apartment to get sex? I should have still had a chance right? Or was I already screwed since I didn't make a move the first 3 dates and it was too late?
Did I put myself into the friendzone after the first 3 dates or could I have still had sex at her apartment had I made moves more effectively?
If she wasn't attracted to me at all, would she have invited me over? If she wasn't attracted to me, would she have been into the sexual texting? A year later, and I'm in a far better sexual/dating rhythm, but I still wonder what I should do in a similar situation if I were at a woman's apartment to get to sex despite the obstacles I created by waiting too long to make a move.

 

[spred]

I can relate since I had a very similar experience a short while ago ( sex talk over text but very cold in person). When I thought like you and escalated on the next date, I almost got rejected. Corey Wayne says that you should move slower than the girl, meaning calibration before escalating.

 

[Dr.Suave]

U asked for a kiss? Bro......Seriously?

 

[dude99]

Just to be clear, the goal of this post is to learn from past mistakes and not about one-itis. About a year ago, I had a disasterous dating sequence with a woman. I had just got out of a 10 year relationship and had no clue what I was doing. We went on 3 dates (dinner, min-golf, ice-cream) and there were good vibes but I was a pansy and didn't even TRY to make a move. I realized I had messed up so I started texting her more sexually after date 3 and, to my surprise, she responded very well and was into it. She then proceeded to invite me to her apartment for dinner and drinks. I thought I had fixed the situation. However, when I went to her apartment, it wasn't much better. We sat on her rooftop alone and we were on these table chairs. I should have said let's sit on a sofa where it would have been more comfortable to make a move but didn't. I tried to flirt and sexually tease but somehow the topics kept going to boring things like "what is your favorite movie?" and work topics. I moved my seat over close to hers and suggested we look at something on my phone and we did but whenever I tried to pull put my arm around her and pull her closer, she didn't even move. I touched her arm, her wrist, even brushed her hair out of her face, but nothing was happening. We then went from her roof to her apartment room but still no progress. I tried giving her a massage and she said "ooo that feels good" but then 5 seconds later she said "ok now it hurts I'm really boney" and so I stopped. We then just sat on the couch watching a show, and she was so intently watching the show, that I couldn't really make a move. Having been good with women 10 years prior, I could just feel how huge of a fail it was as it was happening. I was invited to a woman's apartment for wine and dinner so how I could I not even get a make-out? I ended up just asking to kiss her at the end of the night and she said yes but it was pathetic. After that, it we were still surprisingly talking but after a couple weeks she said let's be friends.

Here is what I'm wondering for next time:
The obvious answer is to get things intimate ASAP on date 1, but what could I have done better at her apartment to get sex? I should have still had a chance right? Or was I already screwed since I didn't make a move the first 3 dates and it was too late?
Did I put myself into the friendzone after the first 3 dates or could I have still had sex at her apartment had I made moves more effectively?
If she wasn't attracted to me at all, would she have invited me over? If she wasn't attracted to me, would she have been into the sexual texting? A year later, and I'm in a far better sexual/dating rhythm, but I still wonder what I should do in a similar situation if I were at a woman's apartment to get to sex despite the obstacles I created by waiting too long to make a move.

Sounds like she had low/minimal interest from the start. I may also have nothing to do with you.
She clould have been going through a spell where she didn't have any other guy lined up and she welcomed your attention, but didn't necesarly welcome you. Chicks will do this when no new guys are lined up

They will go on multiple dates with you even if they have zero intentions on actually "dating" you.

It sounds like she had the night figured out before you got there, to make sure there were too many obsticles in the way. As i heard it put "chicks already know if they are going to sleep with you before you even arrive," hence the way they dress sexy or not, matching panties and bras or not. Etc. They also know before you get there if nothing is going to happen and you will notice obvious obsticles like she did.

For next time, remember this. If a chick likes you she makes it easy for you. If she doesn't like you she puts up obsticles.

Have this attitude, when she is difficult, don"t keep getting more and more obsticles put in the way. After your second attempt or 3rd attempt and she is wasting your time, wish her a wondeful night, leave and delete her number


Don't take it personal. Just move on to the next one.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Interest had already expired after the 3rd date. She probably did the last one hoping she might feel a spark. But it was too late.

 

[Sebastian0001]

I can relate since I had a very similar experience a short while ago ( sex talk over text but very cold in person). When I thought like you and escalated on the next date, I almost got rejected. Corey Wayne says that you should move slower than the girl, meaning calibration before escalating.

so what eventually happened?

 

[Toddz]

We're same age and I just returned to the dating scene after taking some time off to focus on some personal things, so I know my game would be a bit rusty...

So far, first dates with 2 women and both went well (make out sessions at end with plans to see them both again).

My advice would be to first relax and enjoy the experience. First date meet for a drink at a bar to loosen up. Hold eye contact and read her body language. Does she bat her eyes at you, laugh and smile a lot, and touch her hair? All good things. Begin to touch here and there very early on, her hand, arm, hip, etc. That doesn't mean to hold it the entire time, just light intermittent touching. It shows that you like them and are confident enough to show that you are attracted to her. At some point you need to try kissing to see if she is receptive. If she's not, then no big deal. You have to do this on the first date.

In your situation, you went on 3 dates with same woman and did not even kiss her. You asked her in the end. She said let's be friends because you made her feel like a friend, not someone that you are attracted to sexually.

 

[Sebastian0001]

We're same age and I just returned to the dating scene after taking some time off to focus on some personal things, so I know my game would be a bit rusty...

So far, first dates with 2 women and both went well (make out sessions at end with plans to see them both again).

My advice would be to first relax and enjoy the experience. First date meet for a drink at a bar to loosen up. Hold eye contact and read her body language. Does she bat her eyes at you, laugh and smile a lot, and touch her hair? All good things. Begin to touch here and there very early on, her hand, arm, hip, etc. That doesn't mean to hold it the entire time, just light intermittent touching. It shows that you like them and are confident enough to show that you are attracted to her. At some point you need to try kissing to see if she is receptive. If she's not, then no big deal. You have to do this on the first date.

In your situation, you went on 3 dates with same woman and did not even kiss her. You asked her in the end. She said let's be friends because you made her feel like a friend, not someone that you are attracted to sexually.

agree 100%. Did your 2 first dates end in a kiss at her front door or how? You went to a bar for drinks so I am assuming you did not kiss her there?

 

[spred]

so what eventually happened?

She apologised after. We shall see this weekend.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I would attempt a kiss no later than 45 minutes into the first date. It is a good way to stay out of the friend zone.

 

[RobbyDog]

Did I put myself into the friendzone after the first 3 dates or could I have still had sex at her apartment had I made moves more effectively?
If she wasn't attracted to me at all, would she have invited me over? If she wasn't attracted to me, would she have been into the sexual texting? A year later, and I'm in a far better sexual/dating rhythm, but I still wonder what I should do in a similar situation if I were at a woman's apartment to get to sex despite the obstacles I created by waiting too long to make a move.

This is of particular interest to me bc I’ve always struggled with flirting/escalation. Often women say/communicate that they didn’t know if I’m interested in them until I kissed them. A chick had me over to her place on the first meet up after we had several FaceTime dates first due to distance. We were making friendly chit chat on her balcony, and during a pause I just grabbed her and kissed her…it was hot. It’s a bold move but the way I see it, a woman wouldn’t have you over to her place if she wasn’t interested in f*cking.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Effective flirting is mastering the art of innuendo. The more subtle, the better. Women get very turned on by that, and much less do that overt comments.

Women speak the language of innuendo. When you make a subtle comment that COULD have a sexual meaning, believe me, she will get it. Pepper your conversation with a few of those and she’s putty in your hands.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Correction:
“Women get very turned on by that, and much less to overt comments.”

 

[King Lion]

Analysis paralysis has got so many of you incel and fvcked up it's pathetic....Learn to serenade a female with music ffs.

 

[Toddz]

agree 100%. Did your 2 first dates end in a kiss at her front door or how? You went to a bar for drinks so I am assuming you did not kiss her there?

First date kiss was at second venue of the evening. Second date was dropping her off at her house.

 

[Sebastian0001]

Analysis paralysis has got so many of you incel and fvcked up it's pathetic....Learn to serenade a female with music ffs.

serenade a female with music?! You are asking me to sing to her?!

 

[derby1]

1 hour in you drop the smooth operations and quit the nice guy nonsense:

"YOUR LIPS LOOK LIKE THEY NEED SOME SERIOUS MANS ATTENTION"

 

[Sebastian0001]

You could still have fukked her at her apartment. A woman doesn't put herself alone with a guy in her place without considering this as a possibility.

However as you know, you should have established a more sexual connection from the start. Best way to do that is avoid dinner and do drinks. Mini golf and ice cream are fine too, as long as you're priming her. Dinner is just not an accommodating scenario for sexual vibes.

At the apartment, you should have taken more of a lead and deflected her anti-seduction ideas. "I'll get cold on the roof, let's chill here." The massage - "No worries, I'm a pro, I'll do it much lighter" then do that. Etc. If she continued dodging then obviously don't waste more time, take your shot (without asking) and then leave if it doesn't work out.

but she invited me to her place for dinner and wine? Ur saying I should have changed it to mini-golf? I told her she didn't have to make dinner, we can just do wine and snacks because she is super busy and i felt bad