Diplomacy toward the Kingdom of AFC

[RedPill]

As I sit here at my desk at home, having just kicked off my shoes and loosened the silk leash around my neck after another intense day of trying to evolve in my career, I remember being reminded again this week that. . .

Man there are a lot of fukkin AFCs out there in the Business World!

Many of these guys are dedicated professional types too. They haul in monster incomes, and work their asses off, but for what purpose? There's so many people that I've encountered over the last few years who have very few dreams of their own, who are somehow compelled to excel in their field so that "their better half" stays content, and their suburban legacy of chumpism can be passed on to the next generation.

I bring this up not because I care how other people choose to live. Instead, I'd like input from the Mature Men of this forum on how to be tact and diplomatic around those who EXPECT that you are on-board with the AFC game plan.

Most of you guys have to know what I'm talking about. No matter where you live (Westernized countries), or what you do for a living, chances are you have life obligations and situations which require you to play along with anti-masculine groupthink so as to not rock the boat. It isn't always necessarily in the context of business relationships, but certainly that is one environment where conflicting values are often unavoidable.

For instance, it might be when some old fart who is an important business customer is scrutinizing you for not having the marriage-as-goal mentality. Or perhaps you're seated at a table full of strangers such as at a wedding or business dinner, and some friends of people you're associated with are trying to enlighten you with advice on how to properly supplicate to a woman. These are just broad examples. I'm sure you guys have all come across your share of these types of scenarios.

Yes yes, I know, the high road is to grin and bear it. It's the responsible thing to do. But when is enough enough? Better yet, how does one minimize getting into these situations in the first place? Where and at what cost should one draw the line between standing up for their unpopular values and saving face?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yes yes, I know, the high road is to grin and bear it. It's the responsible thing to do. But when is enough enough? Better yet, how does one minimize getting into these situations in the first place? Where and at what cost should one draw the line between standing up for their unpopular values and saving face?

Thoughts anyone?

Yo RedPill,


Diplomacy?

DIPLOMACY???

To expound upon the analogy that your screenname implies:

UNHOOKING from the Matrix of male/female relationship misconceptions is an ACT OF WAR.

And there IS no diplomacy ONCE war has been declared, soldier!

But seriously dude, ONCE you took the "Red Pill" and woke up, there is no going back. To paraphrase what the Bible says, (the OTHER one, that is...):

Once you KNOW the truth, if you turn back from it, it's like a dog returning to his VOMIT.

And I would also interject that the same is true for our views on the entire AFC mindset. There is no way to make friends with, feel good about, or have peace with ideas that we NOW know is counterproductive to our cause of becoming more self-actualized men.

There seems to be two camps here in the Mature Man section of Sosuave. One is moved to feelings of ridicule and disdain whenever they see their brothers clinging to self-limiting, and ultimately self-defeating AFC beliefs.

And then there's another faction of men who are moved with righteous indignation (JUSTIFIED ANGER) at the injustice of seeing other guys dying daily from the effects of AFCism. These particular guys are moved with compassion to help those who WANT to be helped----IF the opportunity presents itself.

How you handle interactions with AFCs you meet in everyday life depends upon the depths of the AFCism you see in them. If they are OPEN to suggestion, perhaps it is wise to step in and show them a better way. Yes, I say that EVEN in this world of "I don't give a fukk about nobody but ME.".

But if they are TOTALLY gone----given over to the mindset hook, line, and sinker, THEN it's probably best to keep your mouth shut and protect JUST your OWN best interest. The only things I've found that eases my own internal pain over situations like that is to make funny, yet SARCASTIC remarks about the situation---but NOT directed at the individual.

And to answer this question in specific:

Better yet, how does one minimize getting into these situations in the first place?

I can only offer you THIS rhetorical question as an answer:

"How do you continue to walk on earth WITHOUT ever getting your feet dirty?"


Peace...one day.

 

[joekerr31]

the worlds a mess, deal with it.

the world is FILLED with people who have no real clue about whats ACTUALLY happen in any given situation. they are sheep. whether it comes to work, relationships, raising their kids, managing their finances, etc.

they have no clue why x,y, or z happens the way it does. they blindly follow the explainations of Lou Dobbs or various other "tv" experts.

as a result, they learn the mantra (the bah bah bah) that the rest of the sheep are using, or that you see on tv or in movies, and they parrot their lives accordingly.

how do you put up with a world filled with unathentic human beings?

laugh at it all.

to quote shakespeare "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

99% of the time its all i can do not to bust out laughing when 'sheep' start spouting advice.

to give you a glimpse of the state of america (and the west as a whole) I personally think there is more honesty, truth and insight on world news events from the Jon Stewart Daily Show than there is from outlets like CNN. I mean, how f*cked up is it when a COMEDY show provides more rational insight than the major news outlets.

 

[Vulpine]

to give you a glimpse of the state of america (and the west as a whole) I personally think there is more honesty, truth and insight on world news events from the Jon Stewart Daily Show than there is from outlets like CNN. I mean, how f*cked up is it when a COMEDY show provides more rational insight than the major news outlets.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one this thought has occured to.

Or this one:

the world is FILLED with people who have no real clue about whats ACTUALLY happen in any given situation. they are sheep. whether it comes to work, relationships, raising their kids, managing their finances, etc.

Or even this one, for that matter:

as a result, they learn the mantra (the bah bah bah) that the rest of the sheep are using, or that you see on tv or in movies, and they parrot their lives accordingly.

:cheer:

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo JOEkerr,



I think that the reason why supposed comedy shows like THE DAILY SHOW (and I would also include REAL TIME with Bill Mahr), are so evenhanded and SANE is because of the essence of what makes for good, THOUGHT-PROVOKING comedy:

There is ALWAYS a foundation of TRUTH underneath the joke. That's what makes it funny. It's the recognition, its the familiarity that we have with those truths that allows us to GET the joke.

And I feel that big new stations are more obviously driven by profit margins, and pandering to political correctness rather than the UNDERLYING TRUTH. And it is this very REASON why I believe that a vast number of us out here actually TRUST comedians more than commentators.

Because for the MOST part, we find it easier to believe that the comedian APPROVES and/or BELIEVES in the "jokes" he's telling, but the news commentators often come across as the "scripted-news READERS" and the commerce-driven, puppets of sensationalist propaganda that MANY of them actually ARE.

Whenever you NAME your news stories like a Hollywood movie that you're trying to sell tickets to, then your credibility ALWAYS comes in to question:

We NOW return to our regularly scheduled program:
MASSACRE AT VIRGINIA TECH!


AFCism takes on MANY forms, and is woven throughout our entire society. If we're to DEAL with it effectively on ANY level we have to ALWAYS choose our battles wisely.
Peace...one day.

 

[joekerr31]

news stations also like to hide under the guise of "just the facts" , so they don't branch out in to 'opinion' commentary.

meet the press is pretty good. they typically add context to get at the heart of the story.

but the primetime news is more about showing bombs going off and people crying than it is about looking at WHY x,y, or z is happening. its basically just the 'headlines' - "60 dead in iraq" "man shoots up school" blah blah.

and can someone tell me why the hell depook chopra has been on cnn like 50 times since the school shootings? why is dr. phil on larry king live? these people are 1) not experts on this kind of thing and 2) have nothing to do with virginia tech.

ill tell you why they were on - because they are celebrities! how the f*ck is that news?!

why not bring on tom cruise to talk about why that sh*t happened from a scientology point of view.

society today is turning in to a joke.

if they wanted to actually educated their viewers on WHY this happened, bring on guys like Noam Chomsky or Ralph Nader who will provided mountains of statistical and theoretic proofs as to how western society is evolving in one direction or another.

 

[grinder]

This dovetails with RT’s thread on the Self-Righteous AFC.

On both issues there is no diplomacy because for diplomacy to occur you must have at least a tenuous acknowledgment of the legitimacy of both sides. Our side is not recognized as legitimate.

Specifically, regarding dealing with AFC’s in a career, I see this as nothing more than another variable to deal with in being successful. What I have learned here has helped my career.

Practicing approaching women and trying out different things has helped me immensely. Approach skills are tremendously underrated.

The ability to charm a stranger is a wonderful capacity to have.

Now, my personal life, my friends have not been as easily charmed by the changes I have made. They are Self-Righteous and so utterly and completely certain of their position it is difficult to not be influenced by them to slip back into AFC thinking.

They wield guilt as their primary defense. They throw the guilt out and try to get me to catch it, because it’s a mental trap. It is so effective, honestly, sometimes it works.

I have developed some new friends who are more open minded and don’t have as much to do with my old friends. The hardest lesson thus far is learning how to be discrete. I’ve learned I just can’t share too many details with my old AFC friends.

On a more global scale, since everyone seems to have an opinion on the state of society, I’ll throw down on that.

Remember, this just my opinion, but I sincerely believe it:

THE WORLD IS THE BEST IT’S EVER BEEN AND IT’S GETTING BETTER ALL THE TIME.

A DJ creates his own reality.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Two words...

Atlas Shrugged.

 

[RedPill]

How do you continue to walk on earth WITHOUT ever getting your feet dirty?"

Walk softly. . . and carry a big stick! Or in these battles, have the market power to openly challenge AFC groupthink without fear of the collateral damage.

On both issues there is no diplomacy because for diplomacy to occur you must have at least a tenuous acknowledgment of the legitimacy of both sides. Our side is not recognized as legitimate.

Specifically, regarding dealing with AFC’s in a career, I see this as nothing more than another variable to deal with in being successful. What I have learned here has helped my career.

At the end of the day that's what I chalk it up to - just another variable to work around in the creation of your desired reality.

Two words...

Atlas Shrugged.

This guy phrases my sentiment well:

As soon as I get an extra 2136 hours to spare I'm gonna finish reading that sucker.

But really Francisco, you're such a huge advocate of that book, and this is at least the third time you've directly suggested it to me, so I'm honestly going to go pick it up at the library and get started within the next 48 hours. I'll let you know how it goes. No bullshyt.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...But really Francisco, you're such a huge advocate of that book, and this is at least the third time you've directly suggested it to me, so I'm honestly going to go pick it up at the library and get started within the next 48 hours. I'll let you know how it goes. No bullshyt.

Hehehehehe... I hope you aren't expecting to read it over a weekend; STR8UP wasn't that far off with his statement....

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I encounter AFC mentalities all day long in my line of work, and I don't encounter them strictly from men either. More often than not I find myself in some social/work environment where it's women fomenting an AFC attitude and it's men (small 'm' noted) who jokingly play along with them in an attempt to identify. It's this pop-culture 'agreeability' factor that is taken as an unquestioned norm that prevades westernized society. It's expected that female social conventions should simply be a matter of fact without any need for critical thought.

Nothing annoys me more than when an AFC, whom I've only just met, discreetly says to me, "heheh,..women 'eh? guess we'll never understand them" as if any other guy would naturally agree with him out of hand and there ought to be a necessity to whisper this to me in secret.

For a DJ there is no better opportunity to set yourself apart and start to plant the seeds of critcal thought into AFCs than when you're presented with these social situation. I think most men lack the balls to be a firestarter at the risk of being perceived as some caveman, but with consistency and keeping your rationality about you can become more comfortable in swiming upstream.

Personally, I've become more sensitve to this AFC aquiescent tone when I'm in social/business conversations and my natural response now is to disagree in a questioning way. As odd as it sounds, Socratic method is an excellent tool for changing people's minds about things. When you 'tell' someone how things 'really' are you'll almost always be met with resistance; particularly when it's something as deeply ego-invested as an AFC mindset. But when you ask men (and women) the right questions in order to lead to your point of view and they do so of their own accord it seem as if they're making a genuine self-realization. Call that diplomacy if you want, but I've used it on countless occassions to bring men into thinking more critcally about why they believe as they do.

 

[squirrels]

AFC mentalities are everywhere.

Stop focusing so much on them. Whining about them does as much good as acquiescing to them...you just reinforce them.

Lead by example.

 

[RedPill]

to quote shakespeare "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Damn bro, you busted out Shakespeare for this one! Very apt quote.

I suggest that you don’t say anything. It is very risky to discuss things that will rock the boat. However, there comes a time when you will not be able to contain yourself as if your soul was burning.

It's not so much the emotional or moral quandry of whether or not to get impassioned about fighting the crabs that gets me thinking about diplomacy, so much as it is protecting valuable "relationship capital" that exists in both professional and family spheres.

Let me give a perfect real-life example where this applies. A couple weeks ago I was attending a business luncheon, and there were 6 women and 3 men at the table with me, a few who would make decent customers for my business. At the end, there was a raffle and my name was pulled. The prize? A bouquet of flowers. I felt like I had won second prize in a beauty contest, except no $10. Instead, every broad in the room was eyeing me thinking "ooh who's he gonna give those to?" Well I sit back down at my table, and the fat chick across the table says very assumptively "You can use those to get out of the doghouse." As the other ladies at the table nod and giggle, the chump next to me chimes in "ain't that the truth." Of course, what do you think my reaction was? With a smirk I said, "Lady you want flowers you gotta earn ‘em.” I could immediately tell that was a poor choice of words from a business standpoint as I got a couple “excuse me? did he just say that?” looks from a few of the other women at the table. I didn’t win friends or influence the bottom line with that comment, but I left feeling great having said it.

So there's an example of the challenge of operating in environments where chump-think is the norm. It’s situations like these where I see "diplomacy" and tact being preferable to rocking the boat… but only in situations where one stands to benefit by earning relationship capital. It won’t always be that way. (time to dust off 48 Laws...)

As grinder said, just another variable to work around.

As odd as it sounds, Socratic method is an excellent tool for changing people's minds about things. When you 'tell' someone how things 'really' are you'll almost always be met with resistance; particularly when it's something as deeply ego-invested as an AFC mindset.

Yes, the Socratic method is probably a better means of reframing the interaction, as it's much less abrasive than a ****y retort.

Stop focusing so much on them. Whining about them does as much good as acquiescing to them...you just reinforce them.

This isn't about whining or getting bent about all the sheep out there, it's game theory applied to social dynamics - taking the best course of action given the conditions of the others.