Denied first request for second date; seeking advice on how to recover

[d0g]

Hi all,

I'm going to give the full story here, for those who want the details. If you just want the girl's rejection, and my questions, skip to the end.

The full story

After meeting a girl through mutual friends, I asked her a few days later to get lunch with me last Saturday.

That first date went very well; she never seemed bored and we had a ~4 hour chat across two different venues. Full body hug on parting.

I called her cellphone on Tuesday (3 days later), but it went through to voicemail, where I just left a brief message saying, "hi", and that I'd try get hold of her later. I waited an hour to see if she'd call back, and then sent an e-mail.

In the e-mail, I said I'd enjoyed meeting her on the weekend, and that I was calling to ask if she'd like to meet up for dinner this Friday. I said she should let me know if she's up for it, and that I'd call to arrange the details if she was.

The girl's reply to an invitation for a second date

What I got was the following reply, approximately a day later: "Hi d0g, I'm sorry I missed your call yesterday. I really appreciated you taking the time to have lunch with me on Saturday. I actually have plans on Friday, but hopefully we'll be able to meet up some other time. Have a great week! Kelly"

My Questions

1.) Since she didn't suggest any other times when she might be free (e.g. Saturday, next week, etc.), is she basically just trying to get rid of me subtly?

2.) What's my best strategy for recovery here?

The way I see it, I have a few options:

Option A: reply back within the next day, asking her when she will be free (seems desperate, so I'm disinclined to do this, but I will be curious to hear dissenting views)

Option B: reply within the next day, saying, "No problem. I'll give you a call next week." (and then call or e-mail her next week) If I do this, should I ask her when she's free next week, or should I again propose some specific day?

Option C: no reply now, but reply in 6-7 days, and ask her out to dinner again.

Option D: reply somewhere between 6 and 11 days from now, and ask her out to a concert I know is coming up 2 weeks from now (EDIT: free concert).

Thanks in advance!

- d0g

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Ugh, this situation blows.

What sucks is, since you met through a mutual friend, she can't just flat out reject you 'cause it might get back to said friend. But you have to really, REALLY read the wording in her statement:

"I'm sorry I missed your call yesterday." - So, she knows you called, but responds back via email? That means she got your call, heard your message, and didn't feel it was urgent enough to call you back. Very telling...

"I really appreciated you taking the time to have lunch with me on Saturday." - But she didn't say "I had such a great time," which is what most girls say when bringing up previous dates. Again, very telling...

"I actually have plans on Friday..." - But didn't give specifics to what the plans were? Saying she "has plans" is a generalization statement that she knows she can throw out there without being questioned about it. Plus, you hit her up on Tuesday - most people don't really have plans set up for Friday until about Wednesday or Thursday... but even if she DID already have plans...

"...but hopefully we'll be able to meet up some other time." - Hopefully?? As if the stars must somehow align in order for you two to get together again? She didn't give you an alternative date that WOULD work. Why? 'Cause she's not really trying to make future plans with you!

Unfortunately, sometimes the male ego will not allow us to accept this info right away, and thus needs further proof before moving on. My suggestion: wait a week, then call her up again. Don't invite her to a concert (if she said "no" to dinner, why take her to an even MORE expensive event??); instead, ask her to do something simple, like bowling or miniature golf. If she replies with "Oh, I'd love to go," then you've got a date; if she replies with "oh, I'd love to go, but I've already got plans... hope we can plan something another time though," throw the number away and move on to the next!

 

[d0g]

Thanks, Harry. I forgot to mention: the concert is free and is pretty low-key. I wanted to pick an event that's more low-pressure than dinner, and definitely less expensive!

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Ah, a free concert? Definitely - if she ain't down for that, she's only in it to see what you can buy for her.

 

[d0g]

Given that the concert is on Thurs 1 November, what's the optimal time to ask her? Next week? Or should I wait until the week after (the week of the concert)?

 

[The Gambler]

Given that the concert is on Thurs 1 November, what's the optimal time to ask her? Next week? Or should I wait until the week after (the week of the concert)?

You've gotta plan something with her before the concert on November 1st... It's simply too far away. Making plans two weeks ahead with a girl you barely know leaves a HUGE possibility of her flaking/losing interest. I would invite her for coffee in an interesting part of town where the two of you can also walk around a bit. If the talk you guys had on the first date was great, maybe you can pick up where you left off (but keep boundaries regarding what you'll listen to... you don't want to be an emotional tampon stuck in the friend zone... this site gives plenty of pointers on conversing with gals).

If she is wishy-washy about getting back together, well.... Take the hint.

Best of luck,

The Gambler

 

[d0g]

Thanks, The Gambler. I'll send her a text message sometime next week and suggest coffee. No contact until then.

 

[thevilittletroll]

i hate to break it to you d0g but she's blowing you off. your date with her did not go very well as you think it did. if the climax of your date was a hug, you have a lot to work on. 4 hours of conversation and no physical escalation equals friend zone. she probably did enjoy your company but she doesnt want to waste onother 4 hours with you without you making a move on her. she can get the same actions with one of her girlfriends. my guess is the only way she will hang out with you again is going to be in a group situation. this weekend go out to a bar with some friends and shoot her a text. tell her you are having a great time there already and that she should join you. dont get into a text convo with her. keep it short and sweet. dont wait for her response, just have fun with your friends. maybe even meet a new girl. if she does ever hang out with you again you are going to have to escalate quickly and probably around her friends. it will be difficult for you but necessary. to fix this problem in the future escalate earlier and more often.

 

[EastWind]

Sorry to say so, but this girl has very little to no interest in you; her behaviour is in no respect that of an attracted girl. Maybe you can take a step back and look at the situation from a distance, you might see it.

Basically, Harry above said it all.

My immediate advice is to delete all contact info of hers you might have to save you the temptation of contacting her. In a few days, provided you're busy, I promise you'll be over it all and probably will be wondering how you didn't see her lack of interest straight away.

The alternative here, I believe, should you go after her, is serious hurting.

To lessen your wondering, from the sound of it, it makes no difference whether or not you kissed her on that first date. In my experience, a truly interested girl will be all open for everything even on the second date.

 

[The Gambler]

My immediate advice is to delete all contact info of hers you might have to save you the temptation of contacting her. In a few days, provided you're busy, I promise you'll be over it all and probably will be wondering how you didn't see her lack of interest straight away.

The alternative here, I believe, should you go after her, is serious hurting.

This is the advice I would give to a guy who just caught his girlfriend of six months banging someone else. Would it really be that devastating to contact this woman one more time? I mean, of course he should take the hint if she blows him off again, and he would have his answer for sure. No biggie and lesson learned (if there even is one).

Some of you people here think that meeting a woman is like walking a tightrope 300 feet above the ground without a net. Make one wrong move, say one wrong thing, slip just an inch or two.... and SPLAT... YOU ARE FINISHED.

So go ahead guys, just keep dissecting every little thing a woman says. Oh, and don't forget to pay attention to the way her feet are pointed during your action date, and CERTAINLY make sure to check the dilation of her pupils.

Fvcking ridiculous.

The Gamber

 

[switch]

quote:After meeting a girl through mutual friends, I asked her a few days later to get lunch with me last Saturday.

lunch=friends zone or creep zone
nuff said

 

[The Gambler]

quote:After meeting a girl through mutual friends, I asked her a few days later to get lunch with me last Saturday.

lunch=friends zone or creep zone
nuff said

Why? Isn't it easier to see how wide her pupils are dilated during the day?

 

[Kbomb]

Why? Isn't it easier to see how wide her pupils are dilated during the day?

Yes, but you also run the risk of her seeing your boner.

 

[switch]

why lunch is friendszone

Why? Isn't it easier to see how wide her pupils are dilated during the day?

well as a master of different zones, i know that a lunch is not sexual enough
a dinner is sexual because there is always the potential for bed activities after the date (if you know what i mean~~)
a lunch rarely leads to sex, maybe a blowj0b but it won't escalate bcuz

1.during day girls are more focused on life activities, therefore she wants to go to work/school after lunch...so she won't be in the mood

2.at midday girls aren't that horney, but night comes and everyone gets a little desperate for meatsticks

3.at mid-day friends hang out together, at night FBs and sluts pound each other like theres no tomnorrow

a lunch WILL always lead to the friendzones....unless you are already fvckin

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Why? Isn't it easier to see how wide her pupils are dilated during the day?

LoL, just thought this was a funny question to ask. But to answer your question: the eyes actually dilate wider when it's DARKER, because the eyes have to open up a bit more to see. This is why "dinner by candlelit" in a dimly-light room is preferable: both people's eyes dilate, making them look more attractive.

Just some FYI for ya!

 

[d0g]

Thanks, guys.

switch suggests that lunch is too non-sexual. I follow the logic, but I'm curious. If I want to get a girl I'm just met to come out, coffee or lunch seems like an activity she's likely to agree too. Dinner seems like it's too much for a first contact.

What do you think? Is coffee / lunch always suboptimal for a first date? Should I always prefer to go for an evening activity if it is possible (drinks at a bar, whatever)?

thevilittletroll suggested that one mistake I probably made was that I didn't escalate enough on our first meeting. That's almost certainly true. I'm ****ing awful at knowing when to escalate, and doing so. Regardless of if I ever see this girl again, I'll need to try to do better here. I'm an expert at ending up in the friend zone.

So, question: do you have any suggestions of how to get better at escalating? Obviously "practice by taking girls out", but what's a good set of things to try when I go out for drinks or coffee with a girl?

Thanks again. You guys have been great.

d0g

 

[EastWind]

This is the advice I would give to a guy who just caught his girlfriend of six months banging someone else. Would it really be that devastating to contact this woman one more time? I mean, of course he should take the hint if she blows him off again, and he would have his answer for sure. No biggie and lesson learned (if there even is one).

The point is: why should he? He's contacted her plenty of times already. I don't know - but I hope - if you've ever dealt with a woman who was truly interested in you, but she will not let an invitation unanswered (not accounting for emergency situations). You'll never know how interested a woman truly is until you give her the opportunity to prove it. It's very easy - and I've fallen victim to this many times - to be the one initiating everything and convince yourself she is interested because she accepts every other invitation. But the true test of her interest is her initiative.

Some of you people here think that meeting a woman is like walking a tightrope 300 feet above the ground without a net. Make one wrong move, say one wrong thing, slip just an inch or two.... and SPLAT... YOU ARE FINISHED.

See above. It works like this:

If you feel that the interaction with a particular woman is like walking a tightrope, the cause is probably lost. As has been repeated time and time again on this forum, a woman who is interested in you will make things easy for you.

So go ahead guys, just keep dissecting every little thing a woman says. Oh, and don't forget to pay attention to the way her feet are pointed during your action date, and CERTAINLY make sure to check the dilation of her pupils.

Fvcking ridiculous.

The Gamber

I'm 100% with you on that one.

 

[thevilittletroll]

the best way to get better at escalation is to practice. its a lot like approach anxiety, its scary at first but once you get going its really not a big deal. the way i got over it is like this. go out one night with the mentality that i'm going to be the overly aggressive touchy feely weird guy. every set that you open start touching the girl right off of your opener. thats where you start. keep touching her in an escalating fashing every min or so. try to escalate as fast as you can. keep escalating until she stops you. make sure that you intentionally cross the line. that way you'll see where the line is. you'd be amazed at what you can get away with. you'll start to kick yourself that you havent done more in the past. once you know where that line is you'll figure out how to time it for future game.

the bottom line is this, it only takes about 10 mins to build attraction. so when you add escalation with the attraction, realistically you can be making out with a girl in about 20-30 mins. seriously thats all it takes. the best part is this, escalation is the ultimate ioi test. if she's not into you she's not going to let you touch her, so you dont have to waste a lot of time wondering if the girl likes you. you also dont have to worry about a girl putting you in the friend zone either. if you have any issues where the girls are not letting you escalate, you need to work on your attraction skills.

 

[omega05]

Its like one date and you already feel rejected. Grab your balls and suggest a different day then. If she keeps being "busy" then move on but dont count yourself out already. Be a man

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Never call a new girl, then follow up with an email. It shows too much investment too soon. There's nothing wrong with liking a girl and showing interest when she has high interest as well. But from the sound of things, you came off as a nice guy @lunch and didn't get her attracted/interested in a romantic sense.

Okay on to how you should proceed.

I get your logic in thinking waiting a week or so might be the best option before you ask her out again. But something you will learn with experience is once a woman decides she's not interested, waiting a week, 2 days, 2 minutes etc is not going to make a damn difference.

So yes, it does look like she's not interested since she didn't counter offer and she's trying to let you down gently esp since you guys have mutual friends.

However with that said, if you are set on asking her out again, I'd do it sooner rather than later. Why? Because in this situation waiting will not help you at all, she already has an opinion on you, its not like in the week you wait to call/text she is going to suddenly realize she likes you.

An analogy might make more sense:

In order to trap an animal with bait, they have to have some level of interest in the bait; if they don't no amount of adjustment to that bait is going to change the animal's interest.

So for the future, learn how to change the bait (become more attractive to women). For this situation, load up your shotgun, hit her up and ask her out if you still like her.

Don't bend over backwards, simply tell her you have "Sunday and Tuesday open this coming week, we should go do X activity and 8pm. Which day works better for you?"

Obviously adjust this to whatever two days you are free and then see what she says. If she says she's free on one of those days, your good. If she says she's not free and no counter offer than you move on.

Again its fairly obvious that she is not interested, but if your set on asking her out one more time, that's how I'd do it.







PIMP