Dealing With The Baggage

[Fantasy]

I am dating this woman I used to date back in college. I eventually broke it off with her although she was a pretty decent person and we got along well. The problem back then was that she was too controlled by her family and I just couldn't deal with her being 21 years old and having a curfew and having to clear dates with her parents and crap (she lived with them).


So now it's 11 years later and we had become friends after losing touch for years. She divorced her husband about a year ago whom she has a 3 year-old boy by. He is a sick kid that needs a lot of health attention. By looking at the kid run around and kicking up dust, you can't tell that he is sick but he requires much medicine and frequent trips to the ER at times.


I really like this chic and we get along quite well. I even stopped giving my ex who lives only 7 minutes away booty calls because I wanted to concentrate on our relationship and didn't want to risk my ex texting me while I was visiting her.


The problem is her kid is just...irritating. First of all, it is hard to have a phone conversation with her because the kid is yelling right next to the phone the whole time busting out my freakin ear drums. He always demand to speak to whoever is on the phone. Then she always ask me if it is okay if he says "hi" to me. Then I wind talking on the phone to a 3 year old who I can hardly understand just so I won't seem like an a--hole. Then, later, if he wants to talk again and he gets a fit if she says "no," she will wind up asking me again if he can talk to me.


When I visit her, the kid is up in our face the whole time because he can't stand to see his mother give anyone attention but him. He is falling all over us and everything ands won't allow us to have a conversation without constant interruption.

When we try to have sex after she puts him to bed, right in the middle of screwing, he will wake up because he needs his medication or he notices that his mother is not next to him so he starts calling out for her. Anyway, she winds up disappearing into his room to give him his meds. Now here is the real deal: some of the medication he gets are stimulants so the kid is literally bouncing off the walls and doing cartwheels after he gets his meds and it's hard to get him to go back to sleep. On top of this, there are bad stretches where she has to take him to the ER once or twice a week. He has a really bad case of asthma.


I really feel that this woman is right for me and we get along so well and share a lot of similar interest and the good thing about it, we were friends for a while. I really do love kids and never used to mind women with kids. I have my own boy who is a teen now but he was a very well-behaved child and still is.

I really wanted some feedback on this situation. For one, I don't believe in giving a kid anything they want and I feel like I shouldn't have to talk on the phone with him every time he wants it but I don't want to seem like an ass. Having to deal with him is obviously putting a damper on things and no one wants to babysit him because he is so hyper & spoiled on top of being sick. I feel sorry that his dad gave up his rights to the kid.

It seem just when I find a woman I actually could see myself being with for a good length of time, there is this heavy baggage. How would you all deal with this?

 

[Max Power]

I really wanted some feedback on this situation. For one, I don't believe in giving a kid anything they want and I feel like I shouldn't have to talk on the phone with him every time he wants it but I don't want to seem like an ass. Having to deal with him is obviously putting a damper on things and no one wants to babysit him because he is so hyper & spoiled on top of being sick. I feel sorry that his dad gave up his rights to the kid.

It seem just when I find a woman I actually could see myself being with for a good length of time, there is this heavy baggage. How would you all deal with this?

I don't date women with kids -- ever. That's how I deal with it. ONS, okay, but no relationships. I knew this before I was a recovering AFC. It didn't feel right.

My instinct to not deal with women with children was so firm that even in my AFC days when I was still holding out hope my Oneitis' marriage would fail the minute I heard she was pregnant I wrote her off completely.

Here's the Great Rollo's thoughts on this from a previous thread. It's very harsh, but it's very true. It just reinforces my belief system.

Proactive cheating is the single Mommy dillema. This form of 'cheating' relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him, or having him abandon her, (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security.

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously recognized, master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. I fervently believe that for the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to it's influence. For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she's able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring's survival with the best provisioning partner, this is an evolutionary jackpot.

The Cuckold

On some level of consciousness, men innately sense something is wrong **** Max: I KNOW I DID *** with this situation, though they may not be able to place why they feel it or misunderstand it in the confusion of women's justifications for it. Or they become frustrated by the social pressures to 'do the right thing' and are shamed into martyrdom/savior-hood and committed by feigned responsibility to these conventions. Nevertheless, some see it well enough to stear clear of single mothers, etiher by prior experience or observing other male cuckolds saddled with the responsibility of raising and providing for - no matter how involved or uninvolved - another man's successful reproduction efforts with this woman.

The man in this position is (or at the very least interpreted as) a Cuckold. He will never enjoy the same benefits as his mates short term partner(s) to the same degree, in the way of sexual desire or immediacy of it, while at the same time enduring the social pressures of having to provide for this Good Genes father's progeny. It could be argued that he may contibute minimally to their wellfare, but on some level, whether emotional, physical, financial or educational he will contribute some effort for another man's genetic material in exchange for limited form of sexuality/intimacy from the mother. To some degree, (even if only by his presence) he is sharing the parental investment that should be borne by the short term partner. If nothing else, he contibutes the time and effort to her he could be better invested in finding a sexual partner with which he could pursue his own genetic imperative by his own methodology. It is simply not worth his effort to couple with a single mother when compared to a woman without children.

However, needless to say, there is no shortage of men sexually deprived enough to 'see past' the long term disadvantages, and not only rewarding, but reinforcing a single mother's bad decisions with regard to her breeding selections and schedules in exchange for short term sexual gratification. It's important to bear in mind that in this age women are ultimately, soley responsible for the men they choose to mate with (baring rape of course) AND giving birth to their children. Men do bear responsibility for their actions no doubt, but it is ultimately the decision of the female and her judgement that decides her and her children's fate.

 

[NewMan]

It a package deal

Without boring you with the details - let's just say, I've been there.

I'm not going to date another women with kids - having experienced it, I know from first hand, that taking on some of that responsibility does not make me, personally, feel good. I never felt good about sharing the burden of her child, and that I think is what ultimately led to our break up (among other things). Her son had medical issues as well - and it's a lot to ask.

The bottom line is, this feeling of yours will not got away - and it's a package deal, so her child will always come first and foremost (naturally) - if you are feeling this way now, it will only lead to negativity and resentment in the future.

you know deep down what you need to do - and if you re-read your post, you will see it clearly.

enough said.

 

[Fantasy]

Without boring you with the details - let's just say, I've been there.

I'm not going to date another women with kids - having experienced it, I know from first hand, that taking on some of that responsibility does not make me, personally, feel good. I never felt good about sharing the burden of her child, and that I think is what ultimately led to our break up (among other things). Her son had medical issues as well - and it's a lot to ask.
package deal, so her child will always come first and foremost (naturally) - if
The bottom line is, this feeling of yours will not got away - and it's a you are feeling this way now, it will only lead to negativity and resentment in the future.

you know deep down what you need to do - and if you re-read your post, you will see it clearly.

enough said.

Thanks for the replies. You are probably right, Newman. The things is that it is very difficult to find a woman with her qualities that don't have children that's over 30. By this age, women have been married & knocked up. I figured that I would never get "it all" but the baggage is a bit overwhelming.


I can't say I won't date women with kids anymore because that would cut out so many in the pool that's in their late 20s and up but maybe if the kids are older liek my son is, it would be okay. This makes the last two relationship where I had to deal with women with kids that were so demanding and unsusually whiny but I guess I have to do what I have to do.

 

[hithard]

I would put my kid first over some blow in lay, wouldnt you?

Understand this and you can pretty much sum up the relationship with a single parent.Unless they are a weak excuse for a parent that is.

 

[Warrior74]

This woman's child needs discipline that you can't provide and she doesn't know how to provide. (sounds like he needs his lil ass whipped to be honest). So in that situation you will just be stuck being frustrated, trying to coach her on how to discipline her child and the child will come to resent you for it.

 

[Desdinova]

I really feel that this woman is right for me

If she can't be a good parent, she's not the right woman. That kid of hers needs discipline and she's not giving it to him. If he demands to talk to whoever's on the phone, she should say "NO" instead of giving him what he wants.

A parent who spoils their kid is a lot like an AFC who spoils their woman. The one being spoiled turns into a demanding disrespectful a55hole.

 

[Demodulate]

I would never date a woman with a kid again. Kids make it impossible to be spontaenous, they are needy.. etc..

plus the one I was hanging out with had a psycho ex.. ended up putting her in the hospital for a week sometime later.

there are plenty of other girls out there without kids..

move on.

 

[Fantasy]

there are plenty of other girls out there without kids..

This may be true but it is definitely not that simple.

For one:

How many women are out there that our in the mature age range such as our selves that are single?

Ok, if they are mature & single, what is the likelihood that they are also at least mildly attractive?

If they are mature, single, attractive, what is the likelihood that they will be all of the above and have a nice personality?


If they are mature, single, at least mildly attractive with a decent personality what is the likelihood that they also have their head on straight enough to hold something like a stable job or career?

If they are mature, single, mildly attractive, with a decent personality, have their head on straight what is the likelihood that they would make a decent partner in a relationship?

If they are all the above what is the likelihhod that they would be all of this and not have attracted other men besides you and not have a child by the time they are 30 years old?

I am sure many men who have been out there on the dating scene knows that the pool of decent women without children gets a lot smaller when you get up into the 30s and older.

Yes, there are plenty women out there without children just like they are plenty of men out there without children but once you cut out all the ones with major issues or one you could never really settle down with, there aren't many that are worth your time.

I think I will monkey swing on this one and hold on to her until I search a bit more.

By the way, I agree that that kid needs some heavey discipline and I have to resist myself from telling the chic that she needs to put him in his place. I know I don't want to play into him getting any thing he wants so I don't want to have to keep having to speak on the phone with him every time he acts up and wants to speak on the phone. Any suggestions on how to handles this is welcomed.

 

[NewMan]

Yes, there are plenty women out there without children just like they are plenty of men out there without children but once you cut out all the ones with major issues or one you could never really settle down with, there aren't many that are worth your time.

So be it.

Settling for 'Good enough' is not my design - and shouldn't be yours either.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Fantasy]

So be it.

Settling for 'Good enough' is not my design - and shouldn't be yours either.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

I see your point. Another thing to consider is to not have your standards too high so that no one is able to fulfill them and accepting some flaws that are "acceptable" and common and not accepting too much so that you will actually lose in the end.

This chic that I talk about is cool in many aspects but her kid is just a huge burden. Too bad.

 

[MatureDJ]

The bottom line is that you should never get into the situation in which you would be officially living with this woman (and under no circumstances whatsoever, get married) so long as her child is dependent on her.

You could pursue the relationship on a boyfriend-girlfriend basis. You could even sleep over there often. But you lay down the law that her child is not welcome sleeping over at your place (emergencies notwithstanding.)

It's as Rollo says - a man with another man's child living under his roof will always feel a little uneasy.

 

[joekerr31]

here is the real problem.... you can't stand having your life controlled by a 3 year old.

that's what it boils down to. this kid, by controlling his mother, actually has power over you, and you can't stand it.

its a very normal reaction, i mean, what grown man would want to be controlled by a 3 year old child?!!!

this is what's getting under your skin and driving you insane.

this woman is DROPPING THE BALL. she's not dropping the ball on purpose mind you. she has no clue what to do. most people have poor parenting skills with healthy normal children - its even harder when you have a sick child.

on the plus side, she sounds like a saint. she's got to put up with him 24/7. while its annoying to you to stop having sex right in the middle of things, its probably just as annoying to her - but she doesn't complain about it because she can't let herself go there. if she were to let it get to her, she wouldn't be able to do her job as a mother who has to be around this behavior 24/7.

so here is the deal. the situation is what it is.

1) because its not your kid you have very limited ability to change her behavior, or the kids.

2) she probably feels guilty that the kid is sick (ie. a result of her genetics) and that his father is out of the picture (ie. a result of her poor decision making). so she probably feels she's already screwed this kid over in life and will bend over backwards to try and make it up to him by being there for him.

3) you have to decide this 'mess' is something you can live with. if you are going to stay in this relationship, then you HAVE to accept its limitations. because if you can't accept that her life comes with these inconveniences, then you are going to end up resenting her and the kid. (ironically by over mothering him she'll probably produce a major AFC later in life).

there are no 'bad guys' in any of this you know. the kids not a bad kid, shes not a bad mom, and you're not a bad guy. this is just a tough situation - one that both the kid and her are TRAPPED in whether they like it or not.

for you though, its frustrating you more than them because you have a choice. you don't HAVE to be there. which then makes all the inconveniences 1000 times more annoying, cuz you say to yourself 'why am i putting up with this bullsh*t.'

but its not bullsh*t - its their lives. if you accept that and then take personal responsibility for the choice to be a part of their lives, you will be less frustrated by the situation - because you will have made a choice to be a part of it all.

right now you haven't made a choice. right now you feel 'trapped' by circumstances. but in reality you aren't actually trapped. you have a choice, you can stay or you can go.

if you go, that's ok, that's your right and you don't have to feel guilty. if you stay, then you accept that the situation for what it is. once you do that the 'control' that this kid has over you will disappear because your perception of his behavior will change.

 

[Fantasy]

here is the real problem.... you can't stand having your life controlled by a 3 year old.

that's what it boils down to. this kid, by controlling his mother, actually has power over you, and you can't stand it.

its a very normal reaction, i mean, what grown man would want to be controlled by a 3 year old child?!!!

this is what's getting under your skin and driving you insane.

this woman is DROPPING THE BALL. she's not dropping the ball on purpose mind you. she has no clue what to do. most people have poor parenting skills with healthy normal children - its even harder when you have a sick child.

on the plus side, she sounds like a saint. she's got to put up with him 24/7. while its annoying to you to stop having sex right in the middle of things, its probably just as annoying to her - but she doesn't complain about it because she can't let herself go there. if she were to let it get to her, she wouldn't be able to do her job as a mother who has to be around this behavior 24/7.

so here is the deal. the situation is what it is.

1) because its not your kid you have very limited ability to change her behavior, or the kids.

2) she probably feels guilty that the kid is sick (ie. a result of her genetics) and that his father is out of the picture (ie. a result of her poor decision making). so she probably feels she's already screwed this kid over in life and will bend over backwards to try and make it up to him by being there for him.

3) you have to decide this 'mess' is something you can live with. if you are going to stay in this relationship, then you HAVE to accept its limitations. because if you can't accept that her life comes with these inconveniences, then you are going to end up resenting her and the kid. (ironically by over mothering him she'll probably produce a major AFC later in life).

there are no 'bad guys' in any of this you know. the kids not a bad kid, shes not a bad mom, and you're not a bad guy. this is just a tough situation - one that both the kid and her are TRAPPED in whether they like it or not.

for you though, its frustrating you more than them because you have a choice. you don't HAVE to be there. which then makes all the inconveniences 1000 times more annoying, cuz you say to yourself 'why am i putting up with this bullsh*t.'

but its not bullsh*t - its their lives. if you accept that and then take personal responsibility for the choice to be a part of their lives, you will be less frustrated by the situation - because you will have made a choice to be a part of it all.

right now you haven't made a choice. right now you feel 'trapped' by circumstances. but in reality you aren't actually trapped. you have a choice, you can stay or you can go.

if you go, that's ok, that's your right and you don't have to feel guilty. if you stay, then you accept that the situation for what it is. once you do that the 'control' that this kid has over you will disappear because your perception of his behavior will change.

joekerr, I just checked up on this response and didn't know you posted this reply. Thanks for your very articulate and level-headed input.

 

[PTC]

I was in the same situation. I met this girl that had two kids by DIFFERENT dads. At first it was just good sex and I stood my ground keeping it just that. But eventually my esteem got sucked out of me,...Literally and Physically,..HAHA and I ended up being engaged to her. Both her kids behaved terribly. I have a young daughter as well that didn't act anything like her kids did. One reason is that my ex-wife and I get along better now than we did when we were married. This girl on the other hand has had a turmoil of relationship problems with both dads. When all this was goin on I was blinded by it because of her. I thought many time to myself,.."What am I doing"??? Her kids!!! She would leave them with me sometimes just for a few minutes and I could not control them. They were SO BAD!
I finally had to quit thinking of myself but think about my own kid. Did I wany my little girl growing up in this kind of enviroment? Or even myself?? Of course this chick had other problems too which finally made me decide I couldn't do it anymore. I loved her and her 5yr old little boy was starting to grow on me but I just couldn't do it anymore.

It's tough when there are kids involved but the older you get the more you are going to run into it.

Hope this helps some

 

[jophil28]

If she can't be a good parent, she's not the right woman. That kid of hers needs discipline and she's not giving it to him. If he demands to talk to whoever's on the phone, she should say "NO" instead of giving him what he wants.

A parent who spoils their kid is a lot like an AFC who spoils their woman. The one being spoiled turns into a demanding disrespectful a55hole.

That about sums up my experience with single mothers.
They are mostly hopeless at discipline because they want to be "popular" with their kids.
Out of control kids = weak parent who allow the children to decide if YOU can sleep over..

Once bitten..

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I'm sorry, but the DJ Math just doesn't add up on this one. You said you dated this girl 11 years ago, back in college. Your profile says you're 27, that put's you dating this girl in college when she was 21 and you were 16?

Clarify?

 

[Fantasy]

I'm sorry, but the DJ Math just doesn't add up on this one. You said you dated this girl 11 years ago, back in college. Your profile says you're 27, that put's you dating this girl in college when she was 21 and you were 16?

Clarify?

I must have screwed up on my profile when I signed up somehow but I am actually 35. I am just too lazy to change it.

 

[Effington]

It's definitely not cool that she involves her kid in your life. She should be getting a sitter while you two go out. You're not a father, you shouldn't be dealing with him. I'm actually surprised she doesn't...of all the single moms I know, all of them shield their kids from their boyfriends so they don't grow any attachment. Plus, it's a huge turn-off, which is why you're writing this post.

For this one, it sounds like the name of the game is compromise. Can't she convince grandma to take the kids once a week so she can spend the night? Maybe find an uncle another time during the week to watch him for a couple hours? Playing dad is not what is going to make you fall in love with this girl...at least I hope not.

If she's just looking for someone to play dad, then you have to decide if that's what you're looking for.

 

[Scaramouche]

This Brings back bitter sweet memories....its tough but you just have to downsize this relationship...If you don't then down the track,you will be the one crying....It may seem that she is the only one available,but she isn't,so learn from our mistakes,gracefully slide out...there is not one positive response here is there?why?...