Dealing with Sh!t Tests

[Rollo Tomassi]

I recieved this as a PM and thought it would make a good thread.

You have said before that marriage is one long sh!t test. My guess is that if that is true then you should be one hell of a master at handling them.

So what's your secret to it? Is there a trick to it that works most of the time? And if you don't want to write a thing explaining it all I can understand that, in which case do you remember the titles of any threads of your which explain your techniques?

I have heard basically two lines of thought on how to handle sh!t tests.

1. Is to make a big deal out of it and yell at her like a father would a badly behaving child. The idea being that a. it shows you don't back down and that you fight back when provoked and b. you give her drama which most women love. Basically it's the VERBAL version of the clint eastwood/john wayne b!tch slap from all those old movies.

2. Is that you leave the house/don't answer phone calls asap even if it means walking out on her. And thus by making yourself scarce you show her that your attention is conditional.

Very few advocate the first one obviously and I find it crude anyways but the second isn't really ideal either especially if you live with a chick. So I was wondering if you had developed an ideal sh!t test passing technique

Dealing with a sh!t test takes practice, but the art isn't in what you do so much as simply becoming able to recognize them in the first place and then how you go about addressing it.

The problem with the examples you give is that both rely on OVERT communication. This is predictable because men default to OVERT communication in almost everything we do. We mean what we say and we say what we mean (and even when we think we're not). We have to make a conscious effort to be subtle or indirect in our meaning.

Women hate OVERT communication because their default is to communicate COVERTLY. They imply meaning and feeling in gesture, 'dirty looks', intonation in voice, posture and many other forms of sub-communication. This is how they are used to receiving and conveying feelings and information with other women. How often have you beena at a crowded social gathering and had a GF pull you aside to say "Oooh, did you see that dirty look that b!tch just gave me?" when a you didn't see a thing?

This is exactly how most sh!t tests are delivered - COVERTLY. They insinuate things, they use double meanings and innuendo because they know how easily it can be misinterpreted by men to test their perceptiveness to their form of communication. They also know how easily she can prove the opposite of her original intent by simply being OVERT and accusing the man of being presumptuous. Yes, women will resort to OVERT communication when either it serves their purposes to do so or they've exhausted (or have been exasperated to) their ability to make their point COVERTLY and the message is more important than the delivery. It's exactly this ability to discern when a woman has reached the point of OVERTLY communicating, and why she has, that's primary in understanding and passing a sh!t test. Remember in the same way that men must make a conscious effort to be COVERT in their communication, women also must make an effort to be OVERT - they can speak it, but it's not their native language.

The second part of identifying a sh!t test is determining feeling. Women communicate feelings primarily and information secondarily. Always ask yourself what feeling is this woman conveying to me by acting, speaking, gesturing to me in this way? Rarely do women give men OVERT sh!t tests and when they do it's in the form of an ultimatum (which is always a statement of powerlessness). Generally sh!t tests are COVERT so it's necessary to struggle with what it is she's feeling and how she wants you to address it. Remember women convey emotion first and thus you're dealing with an emotive state. Most often sh!t tests are based in insecurity; emotional, financial, practical, long or short term security issues are at the root of most, not all, sh!t tests.

The next most common is a test of quality and this is generally a confidence test. This type of sh!t test is a filter to determine a man's condition and his knowledge of self-worth. This is easily recognizable in the "I already have a boyfriend" disclaimer (really a proactive LJBF). A woman slipping this into a conversation (again COVERTLY, or so she thinks) is subcommunicating that she may be unavailable, but the test is to see whether a man, who she's shown a definite IL in will be confident enough to push past it or even display confidence in his mannerisms that he has other plates spinning and she's not the only one vying for his attention. Quality tests are designed to determine a man's acceptability for her intimacy, and are used (mostly unconsciously) when a man refuses to automatically and OVERTLY qualify himself for a woman from the start. This is a fall back for the woman who is cuaght by Neg Hits and realizes (maybe subconsciously) that she is qualifying herself for the guy and perceives an imbalance she's not accustomed to.

The examples of reactions you've listed here are in theory both correct for certain situations, but I'd warn against looking at them in binary terms (i.e. one extreme or the other) and putting them into practice as such. In reaction #1 I think the maturity superiority (be her daddy) reaction is definitely a good tact for some types of sh!t tests, but "making a big deal out of it" or OVERTLY calling her on her behavior as a sh!t test not only makes you out to be a potential abuser, but it also opens you up to her simply making you out to be an ogre who didn't "get what she meant" and allows her to change the frame back to herself.

Remember, anytime you are dealing with a sh!t test, do so COVERTLY. The moment you tip your hand and OVERTLY identify a test as a test, you lose all manueverability and the frame reverts back to her. Far better to stay ambiguous and pass a test, giving her pause and doubt for doing it (assuming they realize it) than to blurt out "FINE, I'LL JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT!" in as loud a voice as you can muster. This is the hardest part for a guy to do because it takes patience, confidence (which is generally what she's looking for anyway) and the mental effort to stay intentioanlly subtle.

As for reaction #2, removing yourself from a sh!t test is almost universally a failure, again if you do so OVERTLY. This reaction presupposes an LTR or at least a dating familiarity and so some kind of relationship is at play, thus this would come as a response to a sh!t test based on securities. If you OVERTLY storm out of a sh!t test situation like this you fail. You look like a spoiled child who'll take his toys and go home, basically confirming for her what her sh!t test was designed to determine - can she break you? Yes she can.

The reaction in theory is sound - increase value through scarcity, but the time to be scarce was BEFORE the test was administered. In fact the test might be to determine just how clingy and insecure you really are. In practice however, you can systematically and COVERTLY remove your attention, thus removing it over time. Think of it as a protracted takeaway method. If suddenly you blow her off and tear away after a sh!t test, she'll see this as OVERT and immature, but if you are gradually unavailable due to your being needed by other people (job, school, family, pursuing a passion, etc.), not only do you effect a takeaway, but you also increase your (at least perceived) value. You become unavailable, but in demand.

I could go on (and I'm sure I will), but I hope this helps.

 

[Bourne]

Wow.
Thank you, very insightful.

 

[azanon]

By my 3rd year of marriage, I wouldnt say i even got sh*t tests. If i did, they're so predicable that i respond appropriately without so much as having to pause to think. Eventually, you learn a person inside and out, and rarely are you surprised after that.

When i flirt with different women though, i (to a large extent) dont know what to expect specifically from said woman, and since there are a lot of unknowns there for her too, then sure the woman does what i think of as s*it testing, and i use a lot of what i've learned here in response.

SO i'd say married men who dont respond in a very efficient way with their wives, ........ automatically, probably just have general AFC issues. Calling any part of dealing with her as a test would be giving it way too much emphasis.

 

[DJDamage]

Good Post.

The question is where is the balance? Shouldn't the man have more power??!! It seems to me that it is always the woman who constantly gives out the sh1t tests and the man always require's to be in a defensive mode and if he doesn't come up with an appropriate response he ends up losing the battle. It seems as if the man comes into an LTR or marriage in a weaker position, always have to prove himself.

I think that is probably why many marriages start great but seem to fail. The woman ends up chipping away slowly at the man (just like a sculpter would with a nail and a hammer trying to chip away at a statue) with her sh1t tests and the man ends up losing in the end (statue is destroyed).

Should men be using sh1t tests of their own in order for their women to prove themselevs worthy on a constant basis?? You never hear in North America about women trying to prove their worth to a man in marriage but its always the other way around. Why can't the husband use his natural OVERT communication to say stuff to the woman, to make himself happy like a man wants to be happy, instead of trying to understand her and act like a mouse. I guess there is no such thing as a woman going out of her way to try to make her man happy like the housekeeping guide of 1955:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIKsQ127BWM

 

[azanon]

Good Post.

The question is where is the balance? Shouldn't the man have more power??!! It seems to me that it is always the woman who constantly gives out the sh1t tests and the man always require's to be in a defensive mode and if he doesn't come up with an appropriate response he ends up losing the battle. It seems as if the man comes into an LTR or marriage in a weaker position, always have to prove himself.

Either equal or more, is what you want. Of course if you obviously have more power, it might mean that she's not your equal and that you could have done better (gotten a more substantial woman).

To me, you're only in a weaker position prior to having sex with her. A quality woman is simply going to know that you want it, and as long as you haven't gotten it yet, then you have to be at your DJ best.

But going into a marriage, you definitely need parity. A notable unbalance either way probably suggests you aren't a good match for each other.

I think that is probably why many marriages start great but seem to fail. The woman ends up chipping away slowly at the man (just like a sculpter would with a nail and a hammer trying to chip away at a statue) with her sh1t tests and the man ends up losing in the end (statue is destroyed).

Yeah, if we're talking about all men collectively, there are a lot of us men that are AFCs, so those men are vulnerable to that chipping.

Should men be using sh1t tests of their own in order for their women to prove themselevs worthy on a constant basis??

I would say no. You need to identify early on whether she can provide you a challenge for the long term. I wouldn't suggest getting someone who isn't close to your emotional equal and trying to train them. Get one already your equal from the get-go. If you do, no tests are needed. They pass from the start.

You never hear in North America about women trying to prove their worth to a man in marriage but its always the other way around.

A quality woman will do this. If you have a good relationship with someone, and the woman has character and loves you, you can talk with her if you're unhappy about something, and she will make an effort to try to please you more. I've had "sit-downs" with my wife before, and though a complaint usually initially hurts her feelings (no matter how gentle i am), she does try to do better on whatever it is that i'm complaining about.

I guess there is no such thing as a woman going out of her way to try to make her man happy like the housekeeping guide of 1955:

Yeah there are; ya just have to look harder. I know i cant be the only guy that's met/married a loving, caring woman that really wants to please her husband. They're out there, and the really good ones will do it just because they love you, not because you expect it.

Want a tip on where to look for one like this? Try a prodestant church. Quite often the ones that aren't going to give it up the first date, ... the first week/ or month even, are the keepers.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

DJ DAMAGE: There will never be an egalitarian equality among the sexes. Both genders are meant to be complimentary to each other, not adversarial. That said you deal with sh!t test all the time with women without even knowing you are and most often without them really recognizing that they are applying them. Men can pass a sh!t test without 'trying' to pass it and this is where you need to get in a relationship - where your natural reaction, and the identity you maintain autonomously, is sufficient to pass her tests when both of you are unaware of them.

It's not like every little conflict is a sh!t test, and it's a mistake to think that women consciously and deliberately give them to be malicious. As I said, most of the time even they don't know that they're doing it. In fact what may not have been originally a sh!t test can turn into one based upon your own reaction retroactively.

It's not like I'm constantly saying to myself "she's sh!t testing me now" when my wife goes on about something and it's not like she's carefully watching my every reaction, but they are going on all the time and sometimes her (or my own) reaction to them only really registers until well after the fact. 90% of the time my own natural reaction to them is enough to pass them. Try not to think of sh!t tests as some carefully laid trap - those are games some women play - but a sh!t test is almost an involuntary function, a filter that's always on in order to reassure a woman or convince a woman that she's relenquishing her intimacy to the right guy. Also don't think that in failing one sh!t test you're automatically disqualified or ruled out, many different factors can cover a multitude of sins. For instance I've know GQ model good looking guys fumble and flail away with women and still get after it with her based soley on his looks. This is just one illustration, but you get the idea.

 

[azanon]

So there's no confusion, my comments weren't targeted or accusatory towards you RT.

I'm just saying when i'm dealing with a woman i'm not familiar with, it actually does feel like a series of tests, and with my wife it does not (whether those are also tests too). Nothing more.

 

[musclyjerk]

I say be overt and get it out there.

E.G.

"Can you get me some cigarettes from that machine?"

"**** off, get 'em yourself you lazy cow" - Yes, swear. If there's people around, make sure they can hear you calling her lazy. Do not do it in an abusive stern manner, but in a way that you're playing around but you mean business - do not test me, I am not the one to be tested here.

Usually I find the tests stop right there.

If you encounter obvious and concious tests, honestly, you must punish them - make them feel stupid, check other girls out (making them feel stupid works just fine for me). Re-inforce the idea that you are not to be tested.

What is all this sneaky covert *****footing around? It's despicable.

A man should not have to act like a woman to get a woman.

The reason guys have trouble attracting women in the first place is because most of the time they're acting like one.

Sheesh!

The Muscly Jerk

P.S. Just realised this is about married men having to deal with **** tests - well that's your fault for not putting her and keeping her in place since getting with her, isn't it!!!!! Why are so many men afraid to act like men! Call women on their B.S... if they don't fall in line..... GET RID they're no good!!!!!!!!

 

[ER!C L!VE]

RT, thanks for the information - I feel better equipped to handle models I'll encounter in Vegas next month. :cheer:

"**** off, get 'em yourself you lazy cow" - Yes, swear. If there's people around, make sure they can hear you calling her lazy.

I like alot of your stuff, but this line I'd use only when at a dive bar in Jaco and I'm talking to a prostitute. :cheer:

 

[musclyjerk]

Well if you want to put certain women on pedastals.. (or models in your case) go right ahead - you're setting yourself up for failure in my opinion.

Why should a model or any woman be able to test you?

Don't you find the idea deplaurable?

Why as a man would you accept you have you pass certain 'tests'?

Who'se to say women aren't looking for a man who will stand up not afraid to swear, call them on their B.S. and generally put them in their place?

There are so many spineless men out there today buzzing around women like fly's afraid to even speak, let alone actively insult and try to make them feel stupid out of some rediculous fear of the woman not liking you for it.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've done AND scored for.

Last month a 'HB8.5' as most would refer to them in here came in to a bar I was in with my friends and she sat on a table near-by and had a fairy's wand that was flashing different colors because she'd just come from a local fair here - I ribbed her about it asking if she was a fairy and what powers did the wand give her and persisted until she got a little angry (in a fun sort of way) and she said 'I'll shove this wand up your arse if you don't stop it!' so I said 'Oh, would you? I tell you what, I'll take a photo of you on my phone for records and you can stick it up my arse' - she smiled and went 'nooo!!' .. anyway I pulled down my trousers and went 'Go on then, all the way up! I took a **** earlier and I aren't sure I wiped properly so don't blame me if you get **** on it!' and she poked my arse a little with the wand and that was that.

...She wouldn't leave me alone all night after that and actually grabbed my phone to put her number in to it.

The mechanics of it are unnessasary but I think you get the point!

Women are women.. don't be afraid to be crude, rude, insulting.. as long as you do it in a 'knowing' sort of fun way... don't let them treat you like a cvnt with stupid tests though - you're better then that............ right? Make them feel stupid for it I say. What's to lose?

I never thought I would share that story on here.....

The Muscly Jerk

 

[ER!C L!VE]

[hijack]

Well if you want to put certain women on pedastals.. (or models in your case)

I don't feel like pissing off Hef's girlfriend and having her tell him or anyone else that I'm an azzhole. I've already made that mistake once with a model. It could mean a loss of income for me.

[/hijack]

 

[pagemaster]

I recieved this as a PM and thought it would make a good thread.



Dealing with a sh!t test takes practice, but the art isn't in what you do so much as simply becoming able to recognize them in the first place and then how you go about addressing it.

The problem with the examples you give is that both rely on OVERT communication. This is predictable because men default to OVERT communication in almost everything we do. We mean what we say and we say what we mean (and even when we think we're not). We have to make a conscious effort to be subtle or indirect in our meaning.

Women hate OVERT communication because their default is to communicate COVERTLY. They imply meaning and feeling in gesture, 'dirty looks', intonation in voice, posture and many other forms of sub-communication. This is how they are used to receiving and conveying feelings and information with other women. How often have you beena at a crowded social gathering and had a GF pull you aside to say "Oooh, did you see that dirty look that b!tch just gave me?" when a you didn't see a thing?

This is exactly how most sh!t tests are delivered - COVERTLY. They insinuate things, they use double meanings and innuendo because they know how easily it can be misinterpreted by men to test their perceptiveness to their form of communication. They also know how easily she can prove the opposite of her original intent by simply being OVERT and accusing the man of being presumptuous. Yes, women will resort to OVERT communication when either it serves their purposes to do so or they've exhausted (or have been exasperated to) their ability to make their point COVERTLY and the message is more important than the delivery. It's exactly this ability to discern when a woman has reached the point of OVERTLY communicating, and why she has, that's primary in understanding and passing a sh!t test. Remember in the same way that men must make a conscious effort to be COVERT in their communication, women also must make an effort to be OVERT - they can speak it, but it's not their native language.

The second part of identifying a sh!t test is determining feeling. Women communicate feelings primarily and information secondarily. Always ask yourself what feeling is this woman conveying to me by acting, speaking, gesturing to me in this way? Rarely do women give men OVERT sh!t tests and when they do it's in the form of an ultimatum (which is always a statement of powerlessness). Generally sh!t tests are COVERT so it's necessary to struggle with what it is she's feeling and how she wants you to address it. Remember women convey emotion first and thus you're dealing with an emotive state. Most often sh!t tests are based in insecurity; emotional, financial, practical, long or short term security issues are at the root of most, not all, sh!t tests.

The next most common is a test of quality and this is generally a confidence test. This type of sh!t test is a filter to determine a man's condition and his knowledge of self-worth. This is easily recognizable in the "I already have a boyfriend" disclaimer (really a proactive LJBF). A woman slipping this into a conversation (again COVERTLY, or so she thinks) is subcommunicating that she may be unavailable, but the test is to see whether a man, who she's shown a definite IL in will be confident enough to push past it or even display confidence in his mannerisms that he has other plates spinning and she's not the only one vying for his attention. Quality tests are designed to determine a man's acceptability for her intimacy, and are used (mostly unconsciously) when a man refuses to automatically and OVERTLY qualify himself for a woman from the start. This is a fall back for the woman who is cuaght by Neg Hits and realizes (maybe subconsciously) that she is qualifying herself for the guy and perceives an imbalance she's not accustomed to.

The examples of reactions you've listed here are in theory both correct for certain situations, but I'd warn against looking at them in binary terms (i.e. one extreme or the other) and putting them into practice as such. In reaction #1 I think the maturity superiority (be her daddy) reaction is definitely a good tact for some types of sh!t tests, but "making a big deal out of it" or OVERTLY calling her on her behavior as a sh!t test not only makes you out to be a potential abuser, but it also opens you up to her simply making you out to be an ogre who didn't "get what she meant" and allows her to change the frame back to herself.

Remember, anytime you are dealing with a sh!t test, do so COVERTLY. The moment you tip your hand and OVERTLY identify a test as a test, you lose all manueverability and the frame reverts back to her. Far better to stay ambiguous and pass a test, giving her pause and doubt for doing it (assuming they realize it) than to blurt out "FINE, I'LL JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT!" in as loud a voice as you can muster. This is the hardest part for a guy to do because it takes patience, confidence (which is generally what she's looking for anyway) and the mental effort to stay intentioanlly subtle.

As for reaction #2, removing yourself from a sh!t test is almost universally a failure, again if you do so OVERTLY. This reaction presupposes an LTR or at least a dating familiarity and so some kind of relationship is at play, thus this would come as a response to a sh!t test based on securities. If you OVERTLY storm out of a sh!t test situation like this you fail. You look like a spoiled child who'll take his toys and go home, basically confirming for her what her sh!t test was designed to determine - can she break you? Yes she can.

The reaction in theory is sound - increase value through scarcity, but the time to be scarce was BEFORE the test was administered. In fact the test might be to determine just how clingy and insecure you really are. In practice however, you can systematically and COVERTLY remove your attention, thus removing it over time. Think of it as a protracted takeaway method. If suddenly you blow her off and tear away after a sh!t test, she'll see this as OVERT and immature, but if you are gradually unavailable due to your being needed by other people (job, school, family, pursuing a passion, etc.), not only do you effect a takeaway, but you also increase your (at least perceived) value. You become unavailable, but in demand.

I could go on (and I'm sure I will), but I hope this helps.

I have to agree with most of the stuff her but not all.

I was seeing a girl for a good year. At first she FLAT OUT TOLD ME that she liked the games. Many many guys are after this girl but I nailed her over and over and over all year until I got her pregnant.

You have be unpredictable, you have to be different, you have to out think them every once in a while, and you have to know how to deal with the stupid tests and bull****.

For example, she told me within the first month of seeing each (via text msg) that some guy at school ask her to go for a drink, I respond "OK" and nothing else and lived my life. She then told me nothing happened lets go mess around.

Other example is when she used to get pissed off at me and tell me that "We are in a fight" ....I would just turn around and respond with "you are in the fight, it takes two to fight, and I am not in a fight with you" and let me know when you are not made anymore cause I have some other things to do right now.

One last one is when "she is literally yelling at me" I simply "you look so hot right now" and then a few hours later she will call and say that she calmed down.


Women (expecially younger ones) LOVE IT when a guy is confusing, complicated, thought provoking........it stimulates them and they find it incredibly sexy.

 

[joekerr31]

as always, rollo's posts are a great read and very insightful. i agree with the statements he's made.

i'll add a teaspoon of sugar to the mix...

i've found that the easiest way of dealing with a woman is recognizing a very simple and plain reality...

1) a woman's strength is her emotions, these are her sword and shield.
2) a woman's weakness is her (lack of) ability to reason through situations.
3) a man's strength is his ability to reason through situations, reason is his sword and shield.
4) a man's weakness is his emotions

the basic paradigm is reason versus emotion.

AFCs reason very poorly. they actually have embraced emotion to make their decisions. so when the sh*t hits the fan, their reaction is analogous to a monkey with a shot gun. they get angry, then they get sad, then they beg her not to leave, she stays, they get angry again, blah blah blah - DRAMA!

have you ever noticed that people who are highly emotional tend not to get very far in life (well, unless you were an actor or something artsy). the reason is that controlling your emotions is CRITICAL to making sound, good decisions in life. its a HUGE factor for success in your job, relationship, physical, mental and financial health, etc.

sometimes i just want to grab the men in the world and ring them by the next because they have not put any time in their life learning how to enhance their capacity for REASON.

and thats the ONLY reason women have the upper hand on most guys. i mean, most women must go to sleep wondering "what is with the men in this world. they have all the power but f*ck all i have to do is cry, or swish my hips and they do whatever you want them to." and then men wonder why women hold men in such low esteem.

whether its before, during or after - when a woman sh*t tests you there is only ONE appropriate reaction - REASON.

your strength is her weakness.

state your position on whatever the topic is clearly and definitively. then ask her to do the same.

once you have been reasonable, if she continues to sh*t on you, walk away.

Rollo says in his post that neither option 1 or 2 is applicable 100% of the time. and hes completely right. if you could apply a general rule to things in life then life would be easy.

all situations, whether with your woman, or at work, etc. are different because the context is always different. your woman being upset you left your underwear on the floor on monday is completely different than her being upset over it on wednesday - same situation, but two different contexts (monday was the first time she got mad, the fact that you did it again on wednesday makes for an entirely different reason shes p*ssed).

the ONLY thing that will save your *ss with your woman, at work, with your finances, etc. - IS REASON!!!!

women save their *sses with emotions. they can flip between emotional states with the blink of an eye. I've seen women at work go from venom hissing vipers to doe-eyed bambi in a matter of minutes - using different emotional states to manipulate the men around her.

and you know what else ive noticed. the only men that these women are afraid of is men who see THROUGH their bullsh*t. and the only way to see through the bullsh*t is if you don't get dragged down into their emotional game, but dominate the situation with reason - clear, rational, logical thinking.

sounds easy, but most guys can't stay rational for more than 5 minutes in the face of a female emotional hurricane onslaught. not 5 f*cking minutes!

until men pick up and hold on to their sword and shield women will always have the upper hand in all this.

 

[HoneyHitter]

RT :rockon:

 

[treefingers]

as always, rollo's posts are a great read and very insightful. i agree with the statements he's made.

i'll add a teaspoon of sugar to the mix...

i've found that the easiest way of dealing with a woman is recognizing a very simple and plain reality...

1) a woman's strength is her emotions, these are her sword and shield.
2) a woman's weakness is her (lack of) ability to reason through situations.
3) a man's strength is his ability to reason through situations, reason is his sword and shield.
4) a man's weakness is his emotions

the basic paradigm is reason versus emotion.

AFCs reason very poorly. they actually have embraced emotion to make their decisions. so when the sh*t hits the fan, their reaction is analogous to a monkey with a shot gun. they get angry, then they get sad, then they beg her not to leave, she stays, they get angry again, blah blah blah - DRAMA!

have you ever noticed that people who are highly emotional tend not to get very far in life (well, unless you were an actor or something artsy). the reason is that controlling your emotions is CRITICAL to making sound, good decisions in life. its a HUGE factor for success in your job, relationship, physical, mental and financial health, etc.

sometimes i just want to grab the men in the world and ring them by the next because they have not put any time in their life learning how to enhance their capacity for REASON.

and thats the ONLY reason women have the upper hand on most guys. i mean, most women must go to sleep wondering "what is with the men in this world. they have all the power but f*ck all i have to do is cry, or swish my hips and they do whatever you want them to." and then men wonder why women hold men in such low esteem.

whether its before, during or after - when a woman sh*t tests you there is only ONE appropriate reaction - REASON.

your strength is her weakness.

state your position on whatever the topic is clearly and definitively. then ask her to do the same.

once you have been reasonable, if she continues to sh*t on you, walk away.

Rollo says in his post that neither option 1 or 2 is applicable 100% of the time. and hes completely right. if you could apply a general rule to things in life then life would be easy.

all situations, whether with your woman, or at work, etc. are different because the context is always different. your woman being upset you left your underwear on the floor on monday is completely different than her being upset over it on wednesday - same situation, but two different contexts (monday was the first time she got mad, the fact that you did it again on wednesday makes for an entirely different reason shes p*ssed).

the ONLY thing that will save your *ss with your woman, at work, with your finances, etc. - IS REASON!!!!

women save their *sses with emotions. they can flip between emotional states with the blink of an eye. I've seen women at work go from venom hissing vipers to doe-eyed bambi in a matter of minutes - using different emotional states to manipulate the men around her.

and you know what else ive noticed. the only men that these women are afraid of is men who see THROUGH their bullsh*t. and the only way to see through the bullsh*t is if you don't get dragged down into their emotional game, but dominate the situation with reason - clear, rational, logical thinking.

sounds easy, but most guys can't stay rational for more than 5 minutes in the face of a female emotional hurricane onslaught. not 5 f*cking minutes!

until men pick up and hold on to their sword and shield women will always have the upper hand in all this.

So you actually have success reasoning with women? Or did I read that wrong?

I agree about not letting women emotionally manipulate you and how nothing scares them like a man that can see through their facades.

However, trying to engage women in logical, rational discussion doesn't seem to ever work

 

[joekerr31]

actually i find it works most of the time.

whats critical though is that you are reason-driven from the moment you meet them.

too many guys try to implement reason after months of engaging in her emotional games (because they were after the p*ssy).

once they get laid enough times, they start to use reason. the woman just sees this as manipulation - ie. when you wanted to f*ck me you were fine with emotion, now that you've f*cked me you're trying reason to control me.

women can only exploit your weaknesses. master reason and you won't have any (that they will be able to find anyway).

 

[treefingers]

Hey RT,


So basically you think the best way to handle **** tests (other than find a chick for whom you can pass **** tests with your natural reaction to them)
is to first don't let it bother you, since she is trying to get a rise out of you to begin with, and second start covertly withdrawing your attention to her (start becoming hard to get in touch with, busy, etc. but covertly. I imagine this is hard to do if you are married).

 

[Bonhomme]

Too much information. Just have some self-respect, and it need not be an issue, and things will sort themselves out.

Who wants to be involved with a gal who wants to keep jumping him through hoops like a circus animal, anyway? Such a gal is a casual lay at best, and will be all the more attracted if you don't take her crap anyway...

 

[Hitman10000]

The one who cares less, wins.