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Dealing with a very confident girl

filerfiler

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So the situation was the previous girl is still ongoing...

We are now seeing each other once every 5 days or so, on my terms. She remains super clingy though in a way that sometimes turns me off. There is no way in hell I'm going to girlfriend this girl - recreational use only like somebody said in the other thread, and we both agreed on that. The demanding via text has stopped but she still seems a little too insecure to me in a way that is offputting. I also discovered she likes to keep an army of shmucks around her orbit (which is an indication of insecurity). She was all too happy to talk about how she exploits them.... She literally came out of an expensive theatre show someone took her to, to come straight to my place...

At the same time I've been dating this other 26 year old early professional...

1) She is supremely confident. Like complete opposite of this other girl. Carries herself extremely well. She doesn't try to qualify herself, and I sense she is ultra aware of her image.

In text, so far, the only texts we exchange are logistics about meets - that is all, very dry in text. We agree date logistics 4-5 days before a date, and she just turns up on time as we agreed without even the need to further confirm after the agreement. I love it.

We meet once a week. She has shown no desire to meet any more often, if anything an indication that it's ok for her. She has show slight resistance to any hint that we might meet more often.

I've seen her a grand total of 6 times. f-close on the third date. Actually it could happened on the 2nd date but I didn't have the logistics at the time. And I literally thought I blew it because it was quite clear she wanted to come to my place and I told her I couldn't (no privacy at the time). In my experience a lot of girls will be extremely insecure at this but she was fine, which increased her stature in my eyes a bit.

2) She has her choice of men and she knows it. And therefore she is no hurry for anything. She talks vaguely of future plans but she is extremely careful to never overcommit herself. Whenever future possibilities come up she talks about them in a way that disqualifies. e.g. "I don't think you're ready to settle are you". or "you don't like having more kids do you". To me it seems like she's testing what I want with her, and she is used to men qualifying themselves back. I swat these tests straight away and i never qualify back, and I think that's the right thing to do. In a way I'd like her to show her hand first because I sense that if I indicate too much attachment and future plans she'll feel trapped and bolt.

3) She is however, quite compliant and non-resistant in a feminine and confident way. She is extremely pleasant and polite in person. 100% follows my lead, but is confident enough to state what she wants in a clear and blunt way and I like that.

I tell her to show up at a certain at a certain time, and everything else is me and she's in for the ride. She doesn't try to resist or one up me or anything like that. I have the dates planned out and all goes well according to plan.

e.g. as a test in a change of venues i told her we're going to walk an hour to our next destination, and although I sensed unease on her face she was happy to comply, then when we showed up to our next venue literally 1 minute later I cracked a joke about it and we had a laugh.

4) In my eyes she's prettier than the other girl. She's almost as tall as me and a bit of a head turner - almost always the standout in any group. At my age 41 I thought I never had it in me but on the first time she came over to my place I never thought I could do that many rounds in a single night since I was in my early 20s. She turns me on quite a bit.

5) Before you flame me for the age gap - i don't give a ****. I didn't know her age before dating her, and she seems to enjoy the gap. On our second date, she asked me what I think about the age gap, I said "I don't even think about it, but for me you've got to have some emotional intelligence and in my experience age, although a factor, it doesn't define that". I then asked her "anything you want to tell me about it?" and she said "no". That was the end of it. We do tease each other sometimes about generational differences in taste in a hilarious way.

6) I'm finding it very difficult to get a read on her as a person. Although she's pleasant and feminine, I can't tell whether she sleeps around for example, whether I'm just one of many she's rotating. She has given me no hint either way, but every time she mentions something she is doing she only talks about girl friends.

Also the non-clinginess, although a plus in my book, I'm finding it difficult to interpret. Is she just confident? is this all fake? she claims to never had a long term relationship - which at her age is what the **** worthy, although she has had to travel a lot for family reasons.

In person she's extremely touchy, doting, etc... in text like I said - 100% logistics.

She hasn't shown any desire to self invest more, and so far it seems like she can break it any time she wants. This I admit is a bit difficult for me to handle, having been firmly in control of previous relationships I've had.


I'm thinking to just continue being easy, seeing her once a week or so, but I have no ideas on how to ramp up the tempo, as this seems like something that will possibly fizzle out slowly if not upped up...

am I reading too much into her behavior and too scared to progress things... In my experience though you lose a lot of respect and stature by being too eager...

So why this post, just looking out for thoughts or your read on this situation given past experiences with this type/calibre of women...Yall have given me very good input in the last thread.
 

filerfiler

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yeah don't see why not just yet... there is some more vetting though

also I've gotta make sure she wants that too, in my eyes it's very unattractive to a girl to be wanting to progress things more quickly than she does.
 

Clockwerk50

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Maybe plan a weekend trip. Or a night at a hotel in another city. See if more characteristics of her personality show up like planning or what items she brings. Not sure where you live but maybe something near a casino or beach or a cottage where you can ice skate and hike, or near a monument, camping, or a stadium, etc.
 

BackInTheGame78

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So the situation was the previous girl is still ongoing...

We are now seeing each other once every 5 days or so, on my terms. She remains super clingy though in a way that sometimes turns me off. There is no way in hell I'm going to girlfriend this girl - recreational use only like somebody said in the other thread, and we both agreed on that. The demanding via text has stopped but she still seems a little too insecure to me in a way that is offputting. I also discovered she likes to keep an army of shmucks around her orbit (which is an indication of insecurity). She was all too happy to talk about how she exploits them.... She literally came out of an expensive theatre show someone took her to, to come straight to my place...

At the same time I've been dating this other 26 year old early professional...

1) She is supremely confident. Like complete opposite of this other girl. Carries herself extremely well. She doesn't try to qualify herself, and I sense she is ultra aware of her image.

In text, so far, the only texts we exchange are logistics about meets - that is all, very dry in text. We agree date logistics 4-5 days before a date, and she just turns up on time as we agreed without even the need to further confirm after the agreement. I love it.

We meet once a week. She has shown no desire to meet any more often, if anything an indication that it's ok for her. She has show slight resistance to any hint that we might meet more often.

I've seen her a grand total of 6 times. f-close on the third date. Actually it could happened on the 2nd date but I didn't have the logistics at the time. And I literally thought I blew it because it was quite clear she wanted to come to my place and I told her I couldn't (no privacy at the time). In my experience a lot of girls will be extremely insecure at this but she was fine, which increased her stature in my eyes a bit.

2) She has her choice of men and she knows it. And therefore she is no hurry for anything. She talks vaguely of future plans but she is extremely careful to never overcommit herself. Whenever future possibilities come up she talks about them in a way that disqualifies. e.g. "I don't think you're ready to settle are you". or "you don't like having more kids do you". To me it seems like she's testing what I want with her, and she is used to men qualifying themselves back. I swat these tests straight away and i never qualify back, and I think that's the right thing to do. In a way I'd like her to show her hand first because I sense that if I indicate too much attachment and future plans she'll feel trapped and bolt.

3) She is however, quite compliant and non-resistant in a feminine and confident way. She is extremely pleasant and polite in person. 100% follows my lead, but is confident enough to state what she wants in a clear and blunt way and I like that.

I tell her to show up at a certain at a certain time, and everything else is me and she's in for the ride. She doesn't try to resist or one up me or anything like that. I have the dates planned out and all goes well according to plan.

e.g. as a test in a change of venues i told her we're going to walk an hour to our next destination, and although I sensed unease on her face she was happy to comply, then when we showed up to our next venue literally 1 minute later I cracked a joke about it and we had a laugh.

4) In my eyes she's prettier than the other girl. She's almost as tall as me and a bit of a head turner - almost always the standout in any group. At my age 41 I thought I never had it in me but on the first time she came over to my place I never thought I could do that many rounds in a single night since I was in my early 20s. She turns me on quite a bit.

5) Before you flame me for the age gap - i don't give a ****. I didn't know her age before dating her, and she seems to enjoy the gap. On our second date, she asked me what I think about the age gap, I said "I don't even think about it, but for me you've got to have some emotional intelligence and in my experience age, although a factor, it doesn't define that". I then asked her "anything you want to tell me about it?" and she said "no". That was the end of it. We do tease each other sometimes about generational differences in taste in a hilarious way.

6) I'm finding it very difficult to get a read on her as a person. Although she's pleasant and feminine, I can't tell whether she sleeps around for example, whether I'm just one of many she's rotating. She has given me no hint either way, but every time she mentions something she is doing she only talks about girl friends.

Also the non-clinginess, although a plus in my book, I'm finding it difficult to interpret. Is she just confident? is this all fake? she claims to never had a long term relationship - which at her age is what the **** worthy, although she has had to travel a lot for family reasons.

In person she's extremely touchy, doting, etc... in text like I said - 100% logistics.

She hasn't shown any desire to self invest more, and so far it seems like she can break it any time she wants. This I admit is a bit difficult for me to handle, having been firmly in control of previous relationships I've had.


I'm thinking to just continue being easy, seeing her once a week or so, but I have no ideas on how to ramp up the tempo, as this seems like something that will possibly fizzle out slowly if not upped up...

am I reading too much into her behavior and too scared to progress things... In my experience though you lose a lot of respect and stature by being too eager...

So why this post, just looking out for thoughts or your read on this situation given past experiences with this type/calibre of women...Yall have given me very good input in the last thread.
Why would anyone flame for the age gap? If you can do it then do it...as long as she fits what you actually want.

I never thought I would be dating a 27 year old at my age, but things have gone pretty great for many months now.
 

Sega Genesis

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What's happening imo is you're used to clingy insecure girls, it makes you feel in control while at the same time it does nothing to inspire you to move closer and it turns you off.

With this girl, she's secure and confident (or appears to be), so the tables have turned a bit. YOU are the one feeling a bit insecure and questioning her motives and what she wants!

That's my read on it anyway.

For me I can relate a lot to this girl except to say I do sometimes feel insecure and uncertain but I contain it (within myself).

I do not burden a man I'm dating with all that, it's not his problem, its for ME to work out. This does confuse them as they're used to clingy insecure girls who chase!

Anyway, I simply follow his lead, observe his actions and how we vibe on our dates. I find things flow better that way at least during early stages before exclusivity.

Yin/yang, masculine/feminine polarity and all that.

I don't know her but this may be what she's doing. Allowing YOU to lead. In turn she responds and complies. Challenging you at times but in a feminine way.

I think IF you want something more with her than dating once a week with no communications (texting) in between, you are going to have to be the one to broach that subject.

Tell her what you want and where you envision things going. That's confidence and it's what most "quality" girls desire. Be direct and sure of yourself.

It's the other side of Mode One. Being straight and direct when your goal is a relationship versus simply banging a chick and acquiring plates.

It's not weak. It's strong but it does depend on your delivery.

It's a risk for sure but nothing worth having comes easy in my experience.

EDIT: PLEASE don't play games like "pulling back" to see if she reaches out, that may just backfire on ya. It's manipulative and most intelligent quality girls will see right through that. I would!

It reflects your insecurity and 9 x out of 10, it's a next.

Good luck, hope it works out!
 
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CornbreadFed

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This girl is not confident, she just does not see you as high value. Let's see how confident she is towards guys she sees a 10/10....Exactly! Right now, you are in the loser's seat because you like her more than she likes you.

You have 3 options...

(Option 1(Recommended))- Accept that his ride is short, have fun, and start looking for other rides to hop on when it ends. This will lessen the blow for when she's done with you or might expand her interest when she realizes you are pulling back.

(Option 2)- Apply the pull back method and let her reach out to you first. If she has high interest, then you will hear from her within 1-2 days. Anything later means she isn't that interested in you and that you should move on.

(Option3(Not My Recommendation))- Continue playing the Hope Strategy with her. Like I said before, this girl does not see you as high value and I do not predict her value in you increasing on this current path. However, I am not 100% certain, so there is a possibility that she latches on to you later.
 

Divorced w 3

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Insecure women can drive you nuts if you don't have the meddle for it, but those women with their clingy approach can have a love-bombing feel that can fill in your need for security, until it becomes uncomfortable, which can result in the target pushing away the pursuer, increasing efforts from the pursuer. As you can see, it can become a negatively charged feedback loop. If you have someone in your orbit now that is confident, not ****y, and knows what balance looks like, good for you. I hope it works out.
 
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I think IF you want something more with her than dating once a week with no communications (texting) in between, you are going to have to be the one to broach that subject.

Tell her what you want and where you envision things going. That's confidence and it's what most "quality" girls desire. Be direct and sure of yourself.

It's the other side of Mode One. Being straight and direct when your goal is a relationship versus simply banging a chick and acquiring plates.
I think this woman means well... but don't do this.

My experience, combined with the 20+ years I've been helping men with their dating lives, has lead me to the observed conclusion that you, as the guy, bringing up the topic of being in a relationship is more likely to make her lose interest and ghost you.

Why? Simple: most men are ready to have the relationship convo much earlier than a woman is ready to have it. And if you bring up "hey, let's be in a relationship" or "hey, let's see each other more" and she hasn't yet felt her way to the same conclusion, she's going to think (a) you're forcing her into it, or (b) that you already know you want her, and since she's still figuring it out it's not fair to "lead you on" since she doesn't feel the same way yet at this point in the dating phase.

Here's the reality: as long as she's saying "yes" to all your date requests and hooking up with you, you're GOOD. Women often need a bit more time to feel their way into wanting to see you more and wanting to be in a relationship with you. Don't think you're losing just because you're only seeing each other once a week - again, she's consistently saying "yes" so you're good. Eventually, she will start to ask you for more time AND, usually around month 3 or 4, inquire about being in a relationship. Just keep showing up consistently as you have been and things will evolve naturally without you having to vocalize anything.

And also: in the meantime, keeping talking to other women. You owe none of these women loyalty yet until they start coming to you asking for more of your time and/or a relationship.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

This is how quality women date (the second girl; the 26 year old). Most women are insecure & will chase because lack of contact creates anxiety; but a secure confident girl won't chase. She will assume the lack of initiative equals a lack of interest, and she will move on.

There is an old axiom about dating that previous generations followed: "The man chases until the woman catches him." There is a reason this is good advice. Allow me to explain (this is how I dated and I've been proposed to 3 times & married twice *I am currently married to my second husband).

1. This reflects the desirable masculine/feminine polarity where the man initiates and the woman responds.
2. If the man is pursuing/initiating then he is investing and he is finding value in the woman. This creates a secure environment for the woman to respond positively, return investment, and allow the sexual conquest, which requires vulnerability with her physical person.
3. This dynamic affirms a man's leadership in relationship.
4. Wise women choose from among the men who demonstrate interest/investment. They do not waste time chasing men who were not initially interested because they know probability is high that they will lose the man when he finds a woman he IS interested in pursuing. You, OP are seeing this dynamic occurring in real time right now. The 27 year old is diminishing in value next to the 26 year old for the reasons I am showing you.

So the 26 year old expects you to behave like a man and make known what you want. She waits for something to respond to; she does not create it or chase it. You are a man doing 'man stuff' and she knows/assumes you are busy & you'll reach out when you have time for her......and she will respond/keep her word/show up like an adult. This is what you want.

If you want to see her? Ask her out & enjoy her company. That's it. No "what are we" talks.

My husband felt like you when he started dating me. I behaved exactly like your 26 year old. He'd ask me out & I'd go. He asked more often; I went. We had fun. Wash rinse repeat. We texted for logistics not to chat. I did not chase him. And I was still seeing other men (this is why its called "dating") even though my attraction to him was growing. After 2 months he asked me to be his exclusive girlfriend. I said yes. Eventually he proposed. I said yes and we are now married.

That is the natural way things should progress. These guys who think women should chase are taking the feminine role and wanting the girl to pursue which is the masculine hunter energy. Wanting the girl to ask for a relationship. What then? Do they expect the girl to propose? When exactly do gender dynamics flip back to normal? Answer, they don't. Follow the logic!

These are the men who end up with women browbeating them for an engagement ring & it builds resentment and will result in a dead bedroom when the man is totally turned off by the masculine energy ball buster chick he thought should be chasing after him.

Wrong dynamic guys!!!!

Again OP, you have both types of women you are seeing now. Which one do you feel more drawn to again? See why that is & how that works?
 

Sega Genesis

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And if you bring up "hey, let's be in a relationship" or "hey, let's see each other more"
Well yeah, wording it that way does sound rather weak. Like I said delivery matters, it must come from a place of strength and confidence combined with action.

So the 26 year old expects you to behave like a man and make known what you want. She waits for something to respond to; she does not create it or chase it. You are a man doing 'man stuff' and she knows/assumes you are busy & you'll reach out when you have time for her......and she will respond/keep her word/show up like an adult. This is what you want.
This^^.
 

filerfiler

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Well I'm willing to listen to you guys but do you seriously not give any hints or anything like that to invite the man to upgrade the relationship? Try to reflect back even to non conscious behaviour, in my mind and in my experience with past flings, the man initiating the talk or any kind of upgrade in the relationship is extremely unattractive and will go punished in lost stature, it can even be fatal to the relationship
 

filerfiler

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I'm happy to lead and plan and carry the relationship in general, I do have the energy, self drive and lack of tit-for-tat expectation, but i don't want to $%$% things up.
 

Bokanovsky

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Well I'm willing to listen to you guys but do you seriously not give any hints or anything like that to invite the man to upgrade the relationship? Try to reflect back even to non conscious behaviour, in my mind and in my experience with past flings, the man initiating the talk or any kind of upgrade in the relationship is extremely unattractive and will go punished in lost stature, it can even be fatal to the relationship
My only piece of advice is to ignore the other advice you've received so far and figure this one out on your own. If what you're saying is true and you can consistently pull 9's who are 10-15 years younger than you, it would appear that you're doing at least something right. Trust your instinct. Every situation is unique and unlike the rest of us, you have the advantage of actually knowing this girl.

Also, keep in mind that some of the posters who have given you advice in this thread (i.e. cornball) couldn't get laid with an illegal migrant from Venezuela, let alone a 9. FWIW.
 

BeExcellent

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Do not come from a place of fear. That is what screws things up. Think about what YOU want. Assess and act accordingly.
 
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Well I'm willing to listen to you guys but do you seriously not give any hints or anything like that to invite the man to upgrade the relationship? Try to reflect back even to non conscious behaviour, in my mind and in my experience with past flings, the man initiating the talk or any kind of upgrade in the relationship is extremely unattractive and will go punished in lost stature, it can even be fatal to the relationship
This is EXACTLY why I advise not to do it. Not to say that there aren't women out there whom will not be turned off if you ask directly, but the probability is much higher that they will be.

Now, I'm not a woman, but I can tell you from personal experience how women will hint wanting to upgrade in status with you (because rarely will they be direct and say "so, let's be in a relationship).

In terms of wanting a relationship, at some point they'll start asking questions like:
  • "So, are you talking to/seeing anyone else?"
  • "What are we?"
  • "Just so you know, I'm not currently seeing anyone else..."
  • "Random question: how do you feel about 'labels?'"
  • (If they're doing something, like cooking or cleaning your place or telling you a secret) "Just so you know, I don't normally do/say this to anyone else..."
In terms of being ready to get engaged, they'll start doing things like:
  • Talking about what a potential future would look like with you
  • Showing you random youtube videos about couples and people who got married
  • "Accidentally" leave her random rings (since most women usually wear hand jewelry) at your place (in hopes of you seeing it and trying to get the measurement for it so you can get the right size)
  • Talking more and more about friends of hers who got married and how their friend got proposed to
  • Asking you how you feel about the whole marriage vs long term partner thing
  • Ask you, "so, where do you see us 5 years from now?" (hoping you'll say "eventually married")
Lastly, there's an idea that you waiting for a woman to ask you to be in a relationship and/or to be married is the woman chasing the man. The reality is, women are ALWAYS throwing hints FIRST towards the men they want. That said, they can't be the ones directly asking for these things because it breaks the illusion we've created in society, which is "men should chase women." Yeah, try telling that to every man that has and has failed. Women ONLY want men chasing them that THEY like, so it has to be signaled by them first.

That said, your job as the man is to catch these signals so you know when the woman is ready for you to make a the more direct move. She hints at wanting a relationship in the ways I mentioned, and you go in ready to have the conversation. She hints at wanting to get married, and you go in with the ring. If you're tapped in to how women passively communicate, this will become extremely easy to do over time.
 

filerfiler

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Also, keep in mind that some of the posters who have given you advice in this thread (i.e. cornball) couldn't get laid with an illegal migrant from Venezuela, let alone a 9. FWIW.
Yeah I agree. I think the game playing advice I often see in these boards is extremely obvious to quality girls. It used to be good may be 20 years ago but is now so common place, and the irony is that while guys think they standout by playing those games they actually are literally following a herd of internet users listening to that advice
 

CornbreadFed

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Yeah I agree. I think the game playing advice I often see in these boards is extremely obvious to quality girls. It used to be good may be 20 years ago but is now so common place, and the irony is that while guys think they standout by playing those games they actually are literally following a herd of internet users listening to that advice
Why is @Bokanovsky so obsessed with me?
 

filerfiler

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This is EXACTLY why I advise not to do it. Not to say that there aren't women out there whom will not be turned off if you ask directly, but the probability is much higher that they will be.

Now, I'm not a woman, but I can tell you from personal experience how women will hint wanting to upgrade in status with you (because rarely will they be direct and say "so, let's be in a relationship).

In terms of wanting a relationship, at some point they'll start asking questions like:
  • "So, are you talking to/seeing anyone else?"
  • "What are we?"
  • "Just so you know, I'm not currently seeing anyone else..."
  • "Random question: how do you feel about 'labels?'"
  • (If they're doing something, like cooking or cleaning your place or telling you a secret) "Just so you know, I don't normally do/say this to anyone else..."
In terms of being ready to get engaged, they'll start doing things like:
  • Talking about what a potential future would look like with you
  • Showing you random youtube videos about couples and people who got married
  • "Accidentally" leave her random rings (since most women usually wear hand jewelry) at your place (in hopes of you seeing it and trying to get the measurement for it so you can get the right size)
  • Talking more and more about friends of hers who got married and how their friend got proposed to
  • Asking you how you feel about the whole marriage vs long term partner thing
  • Ask you, "so, where do you see us 5 years from now?" (hoping you'll say "eventually married")
Lastly, there's an idea that you waiting for a woman to ask you to be in a relationship and/or to be married is the woman chasing the man. The reality is, women are ALWAYS throwing hints FIRST towards the men they want. That said, they can't be the ones directly asking for these things because it breaks the illusion we've created in society, which is "men should chase women." Yeah, try telling that to every man that has and has failed. Women ONLY want men chasing them that THEY like, so it has to be signaled by them first.

That said, your job as the man is to catch these signals so you know when the woman is ready for you to make a the more direct move. She hints at wanting a relationship in the ways I mentioned, and you go in ready to have the conversation. She hints at wanting to get married, and you go in with the ring. If you're tapped in to how women passively communicate, this will become extremely easy to do over time.
She dropped some hints but they’ve been breadcrumbs. On our first date she said ‘how is dating going for you’, and on our third date she asked whether I’m on dating apps. She was quite inquisitive about how I spent the previous two nights on our last date. Any of these have perfect social cover , like I said she is extremely careful about her image and to not overcommit
 
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