David DeAngelo, DYD, Women and Basketball

willtmail

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Hi guys. I’ve been wrestling with a model for thinking about females for the past couple of days and I’d like to post it for some feedback. So, let’s see how this model runs:

I see the game of “women” as a half-court game of basketball. You play against the woman. You are represented by a proxy as one player. She can have anywhere from 0 – 5 defenders.

Now, one of the most important lessons that can be derived from such a model is that there are two levels to the game.

Level 1: (most important) Seeing the hoop.
Level 2: Shooting the ball in the hoop.

Level 1 is what I believe DeAngelo would call “getting it.”
Level 2 would be the techniques – e.g. C & F, challenge, aloof, etc. etc.

Let’s say, getting the ball in the basket is, well… getting the ball in the basket. Hitting the rim is making out, and hitting backboard is number close (maybe kiss, distinction not very important).

(1) girls rated 5 and up have defenders. Defenders = (ratings – 5), e.g. a 5 would have no defenders, a 7 would have 2, etc.
(2) strength/ability of defenders => the strength of her reality
(3) likewise, the skill and strength of your proxy => the strength of your reality
(4) you only get one shot at the basket => shot = close (one attempt to close)
(5) however, you also get a “beat-the-defense” mode to get a better look => done through techniques

If we run the model, we get some very interesting results:

(1) You can practice techniques all you want, but without knowing where the basket is, your shots have an extremely slim chance of ever hitting the backboard or rim, much less getting the ball in the hole. Sure, there’s a chance, but it’s slim. DeAngelo sounds like he believes most guys are blind or blindfolded (which may or may not be true - that's besides the point.) They have no idea where the hoop is. Thus, they don’t “get it.” They don’t understand the game.
(2) If you “get it” and know where the hoop is and that you’re trying to get the ball in the hoop (take that any way you want), your chances SKYROCKET. Even if your skills suck – let’s say you have NO skills at all, you’ll still do better than most other guys because they are blindfolded.
a. Think about it => even a little kid can hit the backboard almost 90% of the time.
(3) Pay attention: YOU WILL MISS SOMETIMES. Nobody makes all their shots. Nobody. Therefore, using this model, you realize that it is nothing to feel bad about personally. You just need to work on your skills. If you are “rejected” by a girl, it doesn’t mean you are a worthless human being, because just like in basketball, if you miss a shot, you may be frustrated, but you don’t feel like you’re worth nothing. When you miss, you keep taking shots, or call it an off day. Remember: even Jordan missed.
(4) So, what’s the key? What is this "getting it"?

That’s where you guys would come in. I feel like I’m on the verge of “getting it,” but I’m not quite there yet. So, that’s how far I’ve come with the model.

Feedback on the key, the entire model, DYD is appreciated and would make for an interesting discussion.
 

Cheiradawg

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It is good to see a post with some thought put into it.

(This analysis is in term of your model)
This model puts women of pedestals according to their looks. It claims that women above a 5 are harder to "score" against. Take this out of your mind. All women want a peice. Eliminate this then you "strength of your reality" ,as you call it, will improve.

Bigger Picture
The level 1 and level 2 ideas are clear. We as men are give the burden, responsibility, and the pleasure of going after women. Yet no one ever sets us down and tells us how to do it. So some men pick it up early due to reasons and others don't for other reasons. Then one day the ones who don't get it quickly get pissed off and decide to pick up their perveribal 'whoppin' stick' and head out to fight. This 'whoppin stick' can be a number of things including flowers, kind words, and even theoritical models (for those who are econ or stat majors).
The bible explains why the gifts and the "I love you"s don't work but the subject of models is unclear. Understand the paradox of the theoritical model. This model you are trying to construct should only be used as a crutch to train you brain to see reality clearer. You are only one man, and the world is a big confusing and complicated place. You will never be able to construct a theoritical model that explains all the variation in women, and even if you could you could never memorize and apply it all. Is the paradox evident yet??? It is essential that a man construct a model to get laid but the model will never help him get liad. A man must first learn then do, because doing without knowing will always lead to failure. This is what you are calling levels one and two.
If a man were to skip a chapter ahead in his math textbook and try to do the problems without reading the theory and the examples behind it he would not be able to complete the problems correctly. Now say he just read the theory and didn't read the examples. Still he would not have a full grasp of what he is trying to do. Now, say he read both the theory and the examples then he will be able to score a 100% on his homework.
Great CD, but wtf does that mean. It means people learn by both theory and examples. So in my longwindedness way I am saying that you have enuf theory. Now you need examples. Ok... what does that mean.


GO TALK TO CHICKS
 

jbbrain

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funny analogy

but you know deep down you should have been out macking with the time it took to write all that bullshyt.

I'm not calling it "bullshyt" actually. What I'm saying is..dont just think about it.

DO ABOUT IT.
 

Cheiradawg

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Originally posted by jbbrain

What I'm saying is..dont just think about it.

This can cause problems. If you just don't think about it that is like shooting at the basket in a dark gym. A Nice guy brings flowers and say"I love you" all the time just doesn't think about what he is doing. IF you know what you are doing then don't think about it, if you don't then think about it, correct it, make it you nature, then you have the luxury of not thinking about it.
 

willtmail

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Cheiradawg, I can see where your criticism about putting women on a pedestal based on what they look like is coming from. What I meant by saying that women hotter than 5 are harder to "score" against not because they are any better than other women or men, but because that is the way they perceive reality. All their lives they have been pandered and catered to, so that is exactly what they expect from the rest of the male population. Thus, in order to really communicate with a "hottie" (as defined by their reality and society), it's a little more difficult than to talk to a less-attractive (again, defined by society) chick. See, the distinction I'm making here is not that because a chick is hot, she's inherently any better. What I am saying is that she will believe she is better because that's the way she's been conditioned her whole life.

As for your other comment about models, I absolutely agree. A model is never reality. The only criterion I use to judge models is: will this model help me achieve my goal? So when I thought through this model, I didn't mean for it to represent actual behaviors. I meant for it to be a useful analogy, as jbbrain put it.

Originally posted by Cheiradawg:

IF you know what you are doing then don't think about it, if you don't then think about it, correct it, make it you nature, then you have the luxury of not thinking about it.
And actually, it seems to me from your response to jbbrain that you get the intuition behind the model. If you buy into my comparison to basketball, then you can see how practicing and trying out different techniques can help you. But practicing techniques is only marginally useful, if you don't know where the hoop is?

Now, the 64k question is: where's the hoop?
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

willtmail

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jbbrain, true, man. I just wanted to see if there were any opinions on my thoughts.
 

Cheiradawg

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Originally posted by willtmail
Cheiradawg, I can see where your criticism about putting women on a pedestal based on what they look like is coming from. What I meant by saying that women hotter than 5 are harder to "score" against not because they are any better than other women or men, but because that is the way they perceive reality.

Ok neither of us are dumbass AFCs.

First, the model is inherently flawed.

(Wait hold on.... Disclamer: I'm ^ as a kite. There is a possibility that only God and myself will understand what I'm about to type. If in the mourning God only knows, then this post will be deleted.)

You say (^#)HBs are harder to score against because they carry around false assumptions of reality. However in the orginal post it claims a factor in scoring is (2) strength/ability of defenders => the strength of her reality.
Sence her reality is based on false assumptions, the strength of her reality is less not more.
Exploiting this weekness is the idea behind "neg hits."
Another example is in the recent post .http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42545 . The man calls the woman on her false assumption of reality and she wants to drop her pants.

I'll answer the hoop thing tomorrow
 
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Cheiradawg

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The Hoop.

"different techniques can help you. But practicing techniques is only marginally useful, if you don't know where the hoop is?"


The hoops is diffrent for every woman.
 

JJMcLure

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From your post it appears you've been listening to DVD Advanced. I think that people can make better use of that by first applying the techniques of DYD, mASF, DJ Bible or whatever else they choose. Get the field experience and it will help to contextualise the content of DYD Advanced.

To "get it" is an intangible thing, an understanding. With time and EXPERIENCE it will click. But you can't get it by reading books and thinking about it - you need experience.

I wanted to post this to (hopefully) save you some time. From your post you seem to think you need to "get it" before you can try to apply what you call "level 2" (you list as C&F, challenge etc).

Don't overcomplicate things and put obstacles in the way of learning. Go out into the field and see what does and doesn't work for yourself, and have fun doing it. That will push you forward closer to "getting it".

Two words: FIELD EXPERIENCE
 
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