Dating is a fight

[jafyk]

I feel like I've been gone from this site for so long but I have something that's eating at me. I feel like some times when guys talk on this site they say do this and do that to establish the frame and maintain control. They often say it as if the women don't even fight back (being dramatic here).

In my case I met Vanessa 27yrs HB 8.5, on a dating site. She first gave me her e-mail. I contacted her. Didn't get any response for over a week. We finally got to talking via text and phone. She agreed to go meet up with me at the end of week. She wouldn't tell me her real name till we met in person.

Come the day she was late (although she called to say she would be and apologized). Got there said she didn't want to eat where I had originally proposed because it was expensive and she didn't want me paying for her. O..k, lol.
We go to a different location we both decide to get different foods from the next two restaurants next door. I got mine and she ended up getting a sloshy, lol. I offered her my food. She wouldn't have it because of how it was made.
Then she told me she forgot her necklace in her car and had to go grab it.

At that point I thought she was gonna bail on me. As the dread consumed me. She did come back with a necklace with her name on it. So, anyway I teased her about how she was late and asked for a massage to make up for it and she gave me one. The rest of the date went well, we talked, there was kino, we walked along the beach and played with some sea weed pod looking thing, took pics and then went to get ice-cream. She let me buy that but suggested we share one. So, we ate out of the same bowl and talked some more. At the end she offered to give me a ride home (as I didn't drive).

We got to my place (she had to go). So, in the car we talked and she told me that even if I didn't like her. I should call to tell her so instead of just not calling at all. So, I tried to kiss her to show her I was feeling her and I got the cheek. I played it off and said my goodbyes.

During the week she would either call or text to see how my day was and vice-versa. I tried to make plans with her for the following weekend but got met with how busy she is with school and trying to catch up (3 weeks from graduation). We agreed to meet at the weekend. Come weekend she cancels due to her school work. Still she'd text or call everyday. So, at least to a certain degree I feel like she's interested. She did call and leave a voice-mail saying she appreciated me calling and being in touch even though she's been busy.

A few days ago I flirted with her and made some comments about sitting next to her in class and running my hand up her thighs. To which she responded she doesn't flirt like that when she's just getting to know someone. (Me, feeling shut down)

Anyway, so finally we are supposed to meet today. I planned for us to go to this night club to get drinks and also dance. This is in keeping with light and fun date. Now I'm being met with another rejection that she will come but will absolutely not dance and even made me promise her not to try to get her to dance. She could hear that I was disappointed and mentioned it. I asked her why? she said she just doesn't dance. Dancing is one of the things I love to do when I go out to the clubs. I'm a bit bummed out about it because it would've been nice to dance with her. It would make for more kino on the sexual side. Although she has agreed to come as long as she doesn't have to dance and said I could dance with other people. It wouldn't feel right leaving my date alone to go dance with others. Then I had I told her the location was a nice upscale type club and then she says how she's so busy with school work this weekend and doesn't want to have to shave her legs since I asked her to wear a dress. So, these little resistances are bugging me. I feel like maybe she doesn't really want to come and if I were to insist on dancing or her shaving and wearing a dress that I may scare her off. I'm rusty and probably catching ONE-itis because this is a quality girl. I know a lot of you would say spin plates. Which I am cos but they are nothing compared to her.

Another reason why this bugs me is because of something I was reading on Rollo's site that says if a woman isn't going out of her way to be sexy for you that she isn't interested enough. So, yeah. I'd like to know your thoughts on my situation. Take it easy on me guys. This dating fight has me all messed up in a good way and bad way. For once in a long time I'm truly excited about somebody but fighting to contain myself so I don't mess things up. Ok, I know it's a long rant. Over to you now.

 

[El Payaso]

This girl is trying to dominate you. If you like being dominated, stay. If you don't, eject. All I'll tell you is that, if you stay, it won't be a fun ride for you.

 

[TheSlasher]

"In his experience, whenever he felt as if he had too much to lose and he held on to others or to deals out of fear of the alternative, he ended up losing a lot more. He realized that the key in life is to always be willing to walk away. He was often surprised that in doing so, or even feeling that way, people would come back to him on his terms, now fearing what they might lose in the process. And if they didn’t return, then good riddance.” - The 50th Law, Robert Greene

 

[jafyk]

This is where this site and opinions can get confusing. I may be saying this because I'm rusty and blind because I'm currently in the situation. Despite the negatives in my story. I have rarely recalled in my 27 women i've shagged history...of anyone who wasn't interested initiating that much contact. I also recall a hectic time in my school life during my portfolio review were things were crazy busy but I know personally if I was interested in a girl at the time. I would've made time no matter how little but maybe that's just the type of person I am. I can't expect the same from others.

So, in response to what some of you guys have said. Is she trying to dominate, just really busy, hard to get or somewhat conservative girl? The reason I'm not jumping into conclusions yet is because this will be the 2nd weekend since our date. Although as a guy we have to set the tone on what we expect of our women and how we want them to be. Is there a reasonable time frame for this. Keep in mind this is a woman I've only been on one date with and haven't even fvcked yet. It's not so much that I'm afraid to walk away as it is that I may be having certain expectations too soon and by applying more pressure too soon could turn her off or make me seem desperate. After all, all women don't move at the same pace. At least this is how I see it.

To the guy who said she might be trying to establish dominance. I see where you are coming from but I'd like to hang around a bit to see if that's actually the case. Obviously if that's how it's going to be then I'd have no choice but to walk away because I'm not that guy to be in a relationship with a woman saying, "Yes dear". So, I guess it would help out if you guys can put a time line on when a woman has to start complying because for example you can't tell your plates to stop seeing other people when you are not yet in an exclusive relationship with them. Although, others may say it's disrespectful for your plates to be seeing others.

In recent times I'm hearing some of the ladies at work are starting to hate me because I come across as (1) Condescending (2) Bossy and (3) Well, one who thinks I shouldn't care what the girls think anyway. The thing is I don't see myself as 1 or 2.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Quality woman? You think you're dating a "Quality Woman?"

:crackup:

Dude, she's NOT interested! Okay, let me re-phrase that: she accepted your date offer, but based on her current attitude it sounds like she agreed to meet with you because either (a) the other prospects she's talking to online have yet to actually ASK her on a date; (b) she had nothing better to do that night; or (c) she's typically picky and was trying to be different by accepting your date request.

Regardless, she's got LOW interest. Beyond that, though, I'm more concerned that she's already showing signs of being controlling. In your own words:

She wouldn't tell me her real name till we met in person.
Come the day she was late
Got there said she didn't want to eat where I had originally proposed
She wouldn't have [my food] because of how it was made.
...she told me that even if I didn't like her. I should call to tell her so instead of just not calling at all.
We agreed to meet at the weekend. Come weekend she cancels due to her school work.
I flirted with her and made some comments about sitting next to her in class and running my hand up her thighs. To which she responded she doesn't flirt like that when she's just getting to know someone.
I planned for us to go to this night club to get drinks and also dance. This is in keeping with light and fun date. Now I'm being met with another rejection that she will come but will absolutely not dance and even made me promise her not to try to get her to dance.
...she says how she's so busy with school work this weekend and doesn't want to have to shave her legs since I asked her to wear a dress.

Now, I ask you: DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE KIND OF WOMAN THAT'S GOING TO MAKE IT FUN FOR YOU TO DATE HER???

Run, man. Run now while you're still not completely involved with her. I've dated this kind of woman and they only get more bossy and more controlling. Cut your losses and GET OUT NOW.

 

[El Payaso]

This is where this site and opinions can get confusing. I may be saying this because I'm rusty and blind because I'm currently in the situation. Despite the negatives in my story. I have rarely recalled in my 27 women i've shagged history...of anyone who wasn't interested initiating that much contact. I also recall a hectic time in my school life during my portfolio review were things were crazy busy but I know personally if I was interested in a girl at the time. I would've made time no matter how little but maybe that's just the type of person I am. I can't expect the same from others.

So, in response to what some of you guys have said. Is she trying to dominate, just really busy, hard to get or somewhat conservative girl? The reason I'm not jumping into conclusions yet is because this will be the 2nd weekend since our date. Although as a guy we have to set the tone on what we expect of our women and how we want them to be. Is there a reasonable time frame for this. Keep in mind this is a woman I've only been on one date with and haven't even fvcked yet. It's not so much that I'm afraid to walk away as it is that I may be having certain expectations too soon and by applying more pressure too soon could turn her off or make me seem desperate. After all, all women don't move at the same pace. At least this is how I see it.

To the guy who said she might be trying to establish dominance. I see where you are coming from but I'd like to hang around a bit to see if that's actually the case. Obviously if that's how it's going to be then I'd have no choice but to walk away because I'm not that guy to be in a relationship with a woman saying, "Yes dear". So, I guess it would help out if you guys can put a time line on when a woman has to start complying because for example you can't tell your plates to stop seeing other people when you are not yet in an exclusive relationship with them. Although, others may say it's disrespectful for your plates to be seeing others.

In recent times I'm hearing some of the ladies at work are starting to hate me because I come across as (1) Condescending (2) Bossy and (3) Well, one who thinks I shouldn't care what the girls think anyway. The thing is I don't see myself as 1 or 2.

You want to hang around to see if she is trying to assert dominance? If you see smoke billowing out of a house, do you go inside to see if it is actually on fire? Where there's smoke, there's a fire. If you want to hang around and get burned, fine but don't complain you didn't see the signs.

We can't tell you what to do. We can only tell you the consequences of dealing with this woman. She will disrespect you and will use you for a toy then dump you when she meets a real man to put her in her place. Don't be a chump.

 

[Tictac]

Why are you wasting time with this chick?

 

[jurry]

I dont really agree with other posters i think she is interested. She may have just gotten out of a tough relationship or been hurt and wants to take things slower than you are looking to do.. But the amount of contact she is initiating and also her saying "let me know if you dont like me dont just stop talking" seems to also say she is interested. That being said, it does seem you are a bit overly invested in it so i would take a step back date some other girls and let it go where it does with her..

 

[Die Hard]

This woman has psychological problems. They all do, but this one has more than average, and I'm telling you, she is TOXIC! I'm not gonna throw out the BPD/Cluster B label just yet, but you should definitely approach her as if she was one of those. Which means RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

But you're not gonna do that. You're gonna crash and burn, nothing can save you from yourself at this point. So good luck...

If you need me, send me a PM.

 

[nismo-4]

This girl is poison!

Get rid of her ass now, you can do better than this low interest attention wh0re.

Case closed.

 

[jafyk]

DAMN! I am in denial. You guys are probably right and my ego is getting hurt now, lol. I guess I'm invested. She texted she doesn't have time to shave her legs and put on a dress and maybe we should reschedule. To which I responded to her "NO! Vanessa. I will not reschedule. If you don't want to see me say so. You said you had time and were available this weekend. Shaving your legs and wearing a dress is not some amazing sacrifice. Maybe I've been wrong about you".

 

[skinnyguy]

I feel a whole lot better about myself after reading this thread.

 

[Sofomore]

Good for you for standing up for yourself. I personally would have stopped talking to her after she denied my kiss.

Chances are she isn't going to respond positively to your text so it's time to cut your losses and find a girl with high IL.

 

[jafyk]

The one thing I do hate though. Is instead of you guys answering some of the questions I asked with regards to timeline of acceptable expectations from a girl you've just started seeing (in order to put her behavior into context). You are all quick to say she's bad she's toxic.
The other thing is that I suspect some of you guys here are high rollers whatever that means to you. To me that would be in terms of financial earning power, quality life experiences and women you dated. I see some of you here fitting such stereotypes as dating 9's who would be the career type woman. So, should a guy not on the same playing field as you guys still have the same level of expectations that you would have? I don't really care for the banging different chicks every week because to me it gets old.

All the same considering everything you guys have said. I feel like such behaviors on her part could be signs of a woman who may be controlling or boring and yet would expect her man to lay down his life for her down the line. Honestly, that's not the kind of future I would want.

My friend and I were discussing that in 2014 American women have some kind of social power now more than ever before. Do you guys agree? Yea, as a beautiful woman she probably has more options and suitors than I do at the moment. So, aren't these factors to consider in today's dating world. Especially if you a guy doesn't fall into the high roller category just quite yet?

AH! I hate this 10 post limits GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR lol.

@ Skinny Guy good for you. Please do enlighten us.

@ Sofomore: sigh! I just had to indulge my fear of taking a stand and risking losing her. I know some of you smart asses would say, "You never had her", lol. Honestly, though given how much my game has suffered socially and other wise in recently. I don't mind this kind of problem. There's a false comfort in knowing that a girl is somewhat interested and it's also a dating exercise for me. Honestly, having moved to a bigger city in Cali. I know I'm playing at a high level. I don't know too many people here. I'm trying to get back on my feet. So, if I can go on a date with a girl here and there or screw a low quality girl here and there. It still beats being on here and talking about theories. It is what it is for now. Till things improve. No?

 

[jafyk]

Here's an update: You guys were right. There I said it and you win. Now, let's add some humor to this and see who can predict what happens next; but before your prediction here's what transpired.

After my last message to her she responded telling me this, "It's an amazing sacrifice for me because I'm extremely busy with school, school is more important and it's more important than clubbing. Someone who cares about me should understand that."

So, I responded, "Do you wanna come or not cos I don't want you doing me a favor. Dress as you may. Did you register yet?"

She calls me while I was out with my cousin and her kid and leaves me a message to call her back. When I did she said she was on the other line and would call me back. Then she calls back about 5-10 mins telling me that I don't understand it takes her an hour to shave her legs and that I'm demanding and making her go online to register for this and that (what she's talking about is the registration that would get us into the club for free that night/free drinks) and she doesn't do well with that. So, she said I made her feel bad about the situation and that she thinks we should take a break for a few days and that I need to think about what I really want from her.

I said ok, we said our good byes and that was it. So, this is an embarrassing situation for me here isn't it, lol? I feel like I just got owned. This is a lost cause as most of you had said earlier right? So, what's your next prediction for what happens? I was supposed to meet up with a few friends and my other plate at the club and no one showed up. All I could do was think about how if I had just not asked her to shave and wear a dress she would've come to pick me up and we'd have MAYBE had a bit of a good time. Yet when I tried to be the man and tell her what I expected of her earlier I got burned. So, yeah this game thing doesn't feel like one to me. It's frustrating.

So, since I'm the butt of the joke on this one. What are your predictions on what happens next. I'm curious. Me, I'm just planning to go no contact. I don't know how long I can hold out for because as pathetic as this sounds I miss her. Ugh!

 

[jurry]

Hahaha thats awesome.. You definitely did get owned. I've had that happen myself where you try to go strong on a girl and put your DJ on and they just dominate you lol. As i said above though i think you guys definitely have good attraction but she is most likely not going to contact you first. My problem - as with you i'm guessing - is that this turns me on incredibly and makes me want a girl more. So the smart thing to do in terms of a DJ, yes never contact her again. Would i do that? Not likely haha but at least go out with some other girls so she is not your only option.

 

[VladPatton]

Always, always simplify. Use Occam's Razor. She gave you the cheek, she is busy, she doesn't wanna shave her legs (seriously), and she doesn't care to dance with you. Seriously, does it look like you're gaining points here? Just put her on the back burner and go for something better. Stop saying a girl is a "quality girl" before you know her at least 6 months. Truth is you have no idea until longevity and a good track record proves her character.

Reduce your attention and focus on a girl who is actually into you.

Good luck.

 

[jafyk]

Thank you Vlad. I like the way you put everything you've said. What is an Occam's razor?