Dating has changed so much in so little time

[Pandora]

How young are we talking? I find it difficult to believe that women would accept an invitation to some guy's home after only interacting on a swipe app. I could see that happening with a good cold approach, but even that's a stretch.

Happens all the time. You are just not super duper Chad handsome so you never experienced it ( no offense brother). I am average looking and it's happened to me with below average/average girls ( i went to their house).

I hung out with legit male model caliber dudes in my 20s. Girls would come over and smash just from a dating app. These were attractive girls too.

When I tell guys that women are sluttier than we think they don't believe me. This is because if you were a true Chad or Tyrone you would not be on this site. Sosauve self selects for a lot of men that never experienced this level of debauchery.

 

[bat soup]

I remember when texting first became mainstream. This was right before i phone 1. If you texted a women she would say " don't be a bytch just call like a man". Now it's the exact opposite. If you call then you are a creeper.

The same can be said for online dating. If you were dating online in the early 2000's you were a weirdo. Now if you approach in real life you are a weirdo.

The GenZ guys truly can't imagine how different it was back then. Women we're almost....fun. An average guy could have decent success well up until around 2012ish. Much of the rift between some posters is just a generation gap. The world has changed so much so quickly that it's hard for us to relate to each other.

The fact that up to 30% of GenZ guys are still virgins is astounding. This was almost unheard of in the Millennials. Back in the day some chick would give you some puzzy.

You have to laugh at this stuff sometimes. Its truly a dark comedy

I'm not sure that online dating has really been successful. To me it seems to have been mostly a failed experiment. It doesn't work for either men or women. Women go online and get 1000 messages per week from guys saying "wanna fuk" whilst men go online and get absolutely nothing. So neither side gets what they want.

 

[Toddz]

Yea i agree

Women are still turned on by guys who take risks and take what they want from life ( including her)

but Dating always has been a zero sum game

Men primarily date to get sex

Women primarily date to get attention/resources/security

The difference in todays women is that they understand how to utilise their value and play the game a lot better

They understand just how desperate most men are for pu$$y and sex and when demand heavily outweighs supply the price goes up

Of course the price only goes up for those stupid enough to pay it ( modern dating)

End of the day women will still fvck guys on a whim if you press the right buttons.......

It's really not difficult to set yourself apart from the herd these days

just approach confidently in real life , be nonchalant and not needy and you will get sex

Yup I agree, for men these days you really have to have all aspects of your life on point when it comes to dating and having multiple sexual options.

First physique, then grooming and wardrobe, next finances and your lifestyle, finally your game. I'd say the most important aspect of yourself is your fitness and physical presentation. It displays from the very beginning that you respect and take care of yourself.

Women are ruthless these days when it comes to dating and having sex. Being confident, dressing nice, and having a good job are not enough anymore. If you show up to a date 20lbs overweight, she's going to blow you out. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to be good looking with facial features, but you do have to maximize with what you have and that means hitting the gym.

During covid and lock down, I put on some weight and got soft. I noticed I wasn't getting the looks from women that I used to. I'm back in the gym and training everyday because by summer I want to be back where I used to be.

 

[SW15]

How young are we talking? I find it difficult to believe that women would accept an invitation to some guy's home after only interacting on a swipe app. I could see that happening with a good cold approach, but even that's a stretch.

Happens all the time. You are just not super duper Chad handsome so you never experienced it ( no offense brother). I am average looking and it's happened to me with below average/average girls ( i went to their house).

I'm not overweight. I'm good looking but I don't think I'm considered upper tier otherwise it'd be happening to me as you describe.

 

[Pandora]

I'm not sure that online dating has really been successful. To me it seems to have been mostly a failed experiment. It doesn't work for either men or women. Women go online and get 1000 messages per week from guys saying "wanna fuk" whilst men go online and get absolutely nothing. So neither side gets what they want.

I agree brotha. It is not successful at all. You are right. I was just saying how it used to be taboo. Now approaching in real life is the taboo.

 

[Pandora]

I'm not overweight. I'm good looking but I don't think I'm considered upper tier otherwise it'd be happening to me as you describe.

Yeh I'm sure you are good looking. I was not coming at you personally. I was just pointing out that the top 5% of guys in looks live totally different dating lives.

Girls want validation from these guys so much that they are willing to let them smash at pool parties, and after just talking to them a few days on an app.

If a super Chad guy builds rapport with the chick on an app for like 3 days he can just tell her to come over and she is smashing the first night. It's insane.

 

[SW15]

Yeh I'm sure you are good looking. I was not coming at you personally. I was just pointing out that the top 5% of guys in looks live totally different dating lives.

Girls want validation from these guys so much that they are willing to let them smash at pool parties, and after just talking to them a few days on an app.

If a super Chad guy builds rapport with the chick on an app for like 3 days he can't just tell her to come over and she is smashing the first night. It's insane.

I didn't think you were coming at me. It'd be awesome if I were a 90-95th percentile guy.

I have had to work harder to get laid. I've also dated women close to my own level in looks and have refused to date down. Not dating down might explain some of my experiences.

 

[bat soup]

I agree brotha. It is not successful at all. You are right. I was just saying how it used to be taboo. Now approaching in real life is the taboo.

I think in a way it has always been, but then again it depends on the culture. There are countries where its fairly easy to talk to people you don't know and countries where its very difficult.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Not just dating but society and social norms have changed so much in a very short period of time. Have you ever heard of the term "future shock"? It literally means too much change in too short a period of time. Think about how much society has changed in just the past 30 years. In 1992, you would have been living in a world without smartphones, social media, online dating and socially-acceptable homosexuality.

 

[SW15]

Think about how much society has changed in just the past 30 years. In 1992, you would have been living in a world without smartphones, social media, online dating and socially-acceptable homosexuality.

I'm old enough to remember 1992. I was in elementary school and pre-puberty. It's amazing to think about things in the way you described them. Dating in 1992 was challenging enough but seems easier as compared to dating in 2022.

 

[lost_blackbird]

Better to enjoy what we do have.

You should be a comedian. That's really funny!

 

[Jack22]

My ex-gf thought I was a kidnapper/weirdo because I didn't have a social media. I think it was also alluring because it's so uncommon, but it did make her less trustful. Usually, the thought process is that if someone doesn't have a social it's because they did something so bad they had to nuke it. Honestly, sh*t's f*cked. If you've ever joined in a game as a noob in a lobby where the vets are sniping spawn, that's what dating feels like as a zoomer. Free for all, no idea how to play, and no way to learn as all the vets kill you and take your sh*t. Can't compete for chicks my own age if they have a social, they've got rich players and heavily tatted ex-cons hitting up their DMs, I know because I've seen it.

It rubs me the wrong way because my latest girl was a six at best, but her abundance was off the charts. She was c*cky as hell and thought of me as disposable until I checked her and told her "to go ahead and do it then", which shut her up quick. The chips these girls have on their shoulders, I swear. Honestly though, f*ck this sh*t. I feel like a Ukranian, I'm here fighting with a water soaked AK, meanwhile the Russians have all sorts of sh*t up their sleeve from being years in the game, one moment my latest prospect is being intimate, and then the next I turn around and I have a cruise missile coming up my ass as a guy with a hellcat swoops up, and takes my girl.

I can pick up and keep average looking chicks easy, but if you're a seven you don't really want to settle for a 5 or a 4. I'm going on the grind for the next 2-3 years and I hope to christ almighty I can get a slightly above average chick that isn't an ego maniac. If I can't even do that, fine. I'll have to find something else to keep me going.

 

[Zimbabwe]

My ex-gf thought I was a kidnapper/weirdo because I didn't have a social media. I think it was also alluring because it's so uncommon, but it did make her less trustful. Usually, the thought process is that if someone doesn't have a social it's because they did something so bad they had to nuke it. Honestly, sh*t's ****ed. If you've ever joined in a game as a noob in a lobby where the vets are sniping spawn, that's what dating feels like as a zoomer.

I always say "I only use social media for buisness, or that I have no time for it".

 

[Jack22]

Just accept their delusion. My fwb is a 5 at best. She is rejecting all kinds of guys on dating apps that are above her smv. Very picky. She's got more abundance than most men on this site. She showed me the messages guys were sending her. It is what it is. They all think they're the shjt because all kinds of guys are willing to fvck them... They will get knocked down off their high horses when they try getting commitment from those men.

You're in your prime, and it's still that bad? What's the point of being a man today? Really? Am I just human cattle? If the wall doesn't hit until a chick is 40 she's already spent half her life living in a world most men can only dream of. What am I supposed to do? I'm not even a human being. It's like all that's really left for me is to continue out of spite.

 

[Slowhandluke]

Average women want relationships. Average men want sex. Women date "players" on the dating apps and for most of these women, they will not end up in a longterm relationship. They get "burned out" on OLD. They lose. They become cat ladies if they don't adjust their man "picker" quickly.

Average men do not get picked on OLD. Why would they when there are so many "chads" online? Average men don't get sex.

Both average men and women lose online. Dating that doesn't involve OLD is similar to how it was in the old days for regular people. For players, they moved online. For sluts, they moved online. For introverts, they moved online. The majority of people, they are finding longterm relationship through their "social circle" or just talking to people in real life. This hasn't changed.

Many short term "relationships" are created by OLD... but not many long-term relationships. Social circles keep people in check. OLD promotes hooking up... that is all. In hookup culture, Chad wins.

 

[deadmasterx]

For the older gentlemen here, I'm wondering how was the breakup process back when all you could do was have a phone call (or not even that)? I'm wondering how a woman would try to keep a guy under her spell even after dumping him.

 

[Slowhandluke]

For the older gentlemen here, I'm wondering how was the breakup process back when all you could do was have a phone call (or not even that)? I'm wondering how a woman would try to keep a guy under her spell even after dumping him.

.
The breakup process was hard back when their was no OLD. U had to have a reason to break up or your social circle called you a slut or a player. There were extremely negative ramifications if this happened and you didn't want that label.

While complete stranger to stranger dating did happen, it didn't happen alot. Since this type of relationships were rare, those that were in stranger to stranger relationships tended to treat these relationship better. No ghost, really try to make it work, etc... but a lot of people DIDNT want to be in stranger to stranger relationships. There was a higher number of players, sluts, creeps, social pariah involved in this type of dating because there was less accountability. It also had a stigma because of these reasons.

How would woman back in the day try to keep men under her spell? Not sure what is meant by this? If a woman was a slut, the social circle would kick her out and tell all members she was a slut only good for sex. They would then try and make the dumped guy feel better. Perhaps even look for a new girl for him. It was actually harder for slutty woman to keep regular guys under her spell back in the day. The social circle discouraged this because it wasn't good for the group as a whole.

 

[SW15]

Average women want relationships. Average men want sex. Women date "players" on the dating apps and for most of these women, they will not end up in a longterm relationship. They get "burned out" on OLD. They lose. They become cat ladies if they don't adjust their man "picker" quickly.

Average men do not get picked on OLD. Why would they when there are so many "chads" online? Average men don't get sex.

Both average men and women lose online.

In tech assisted mating, sex gets re-distributed to a smaller percentage of males. This is why male sexlessness has been rising for the past 2-3 decades as website dating and then later swipe app dating got more commonplace. Global male surpluses has worsened this. People focus on China with the male surpluses but the United States has had a bad male surplus since around 2000 too.

Dating that doesn't involve OLD is similar to how it was in the old days for regular people. For players, they moved online. For sluts, they moved online. For introverts, they moved online. The majority of people, they are finding longterm relationship through their "social circle" or just talking to people in real life. This hasn't changed.

Many short term "relationships" are created by OLD... but not many long-term relationships. Social circles keep people in check. OLD promotes hooking up... that is all. In hookup culture, Chad wins.

How people are forming relationships is changing. It wasn't until the 2010s that 30% of heterosexual couples were formed online. It was pushing 40% in 2017. As of 2017, you're still correct that the majority of people were meeting through social circle and real life. The pandemic might have pushed that number up above 50% for 2020-21 though my sense is that couple formation slowed in 2020-21 as we have already seen information showing sexlessness increased in 2020-21.

"Met in Bar or Restaurant" is a problematic classification from this chart. Some of those couples were probably some online couples that had their first date in a bar or restaurant. This might be where the daygame formed also reside, though my sense is that daygame doesn't form a lot of relationships. Daygame is quite difficult. It's always been a niche activity to do non-bar approaching and arrange dates that way.

I do think the "online" formed relationships likely do not last as long as relationships formed through in-person means.

Meeting through friends has been declining since ~1990, showing that people have weaking social circles. Meeting at college seemed to be increasing from 1975-2000 but then started to fall in the early 2000s, just as the early Millennials were starting college. The Millennials have been a group known for having poor social skills.

 

[SW15]

The breakup process was hard back when their was no OLD. U had to have a reason to break up or your social circle called you a slut or a player. There were extremely negative ramifications if this happened and you didn't want that label.

While complete stranger to stranger dating did happen, it didn't happen alot. Since this type of relationships were rare, those that were in stranger to stranger relationships tended to treat these relationship better. No ghost, really try to make it work, etc... but a lot of people DIDNT want to be in stranger to stranger relationships. There was a higher number of players, sluts, creeps, social pariah involved in this type of dating because there was less accountability. It also had a stigma because of these reasons.

As seen above, there are only 2 ways to form romantic relationship that have been growing since the year 2000. Those two ways are online and meeting in a bar/restaurant. Both of those means eliminate social circles as a part of relationship formation.

I'm intrigued at how "Met in Bar/Restaurant" was a constant percentage from 1980-1999. From 1980 until the mid-1990s, there was no online dating. From 1995-1999, online dating was small and stigmatized. I don't know if I can say that meeting women at bars without tech assistance formed more relationships from 2005-2017 as compared to the 1980s-early 1990s.

I think you're right that stranger formed relationships (mainly in-person approaching) was considered less appealing as an option for forming relationships in the 1980s-1990s.

How would woman back in the day try to keep men under her spell? Not sure what is meant by this? If a woman was a slut, the social circle would kick her out and tell all members she was a slut only good for sex. They would then try and make the dumped guy feel better. Perhaps even look for a new girl for him. It was actually harder for slutty woman to keep regular guys under her spell back in the day. The social circle discouraged this because it wasn't good for the group as a whole.

Romantic relationships that form in social circles take on a different dynamic than the ones formed through tech-assisted means or in-person approaching means. Social circles tend to help AFCs/beta males as compared to competing for vagina on swipe apps or through cold approaching. AFCs/beta males in general are too timid to do non-bar approaching. There are plenty of beta males who can approach with alcohol in their systems at bars. The social circle is probably most beneficial to the beta as it allows him to get some attention that he wouldn't get on a swipe app, in a non-bar approach setting, or in bar approaching.

A lot of the guys who tend to have LTRs through social circles are AFCs/betas. Social circles frown upon player or serial monogamous behavior, for both men and women. This tends to encourage longer relationships. For men, social circles will not continuously feed a man prospects. He can probably get away with changing out women every 2-3 years or so without major penalty from the social circle but if he's changing women every 18 months or less, social circles will probably banish him or stop arranging dates for him. A lot of men realize that the social circle is one of the their best option and they choose to behave in a way not to run afoul of the circle.

 

[Slowhandluke]

Without social circles regulating behavior, u will have unchecked hypergamy, ghosting, etc... Chad's will have their way with unsuspecting women.

Even in the past, meeting people at a bar, they would likely be friends of a friend. The cold approach did not work often for those that actually formed longterm relationships that could ultimately lead to marriage.

Just ask those that are in their 50's and asked them how they met their wives or husband's. Alot will be through social circles not cold approaches. Memory is a tricky thing, sometimes we want to think things happened in a certain way... but sometimes it actually didn't happen that way.

Did sluts and players hook up a lot at bars back in the day? Yes. Bars were only one of the few venues where that could happen and since I'm old, meeting your bf or gf at the bar was looked down upon esp. If it was a complete stranger.


Today, because less people are using social circles, less long-term relationships are forming. But even today, social circles are the best methods for finding longterm relationships for EVERYONE. For hooking up, not so much.

Online dating worked initially because it was full of nerds and nerdette. It was full of introverts, scientist, programmers, etc.. etc. Basically normal people who weren't social. Now that sluts and players have infiltrated OLD, it's just a wasteland for people who are trying to find LTR.