Dating has an upside down logic

abcd_z

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DonGorgon said:
Either:
1. Lower your standards and accept that fat uglies are your only choice or
2. Try to become as physically and intellectually attractive as you can then suppliment the deficit with wealth ie. cars house etc..
Wait. You mean nobody else looked at this post and said "wait a minute, that's not right"?

Women are attracted to certain things. Confidence. Social value. Challenge. And guys that have cars, money, etc. tend to have those things. The problem is, most guys look at just the surface connections. The money, the cars, the muscles. And they think "well, if I just had those, I would be attractive to women." Except, it doesn't work, because that was never what they were attracted to.
 

orly

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There you go, you've answered your question. You cannot tell a woman you are attracted to: "I work hard, I'm rich, I'm funny, I'm ripped, so now you must date me." It all depends how you get to her emotions. The analogy would be studying for a test. You can't tell the examiner "I've studied for 5 hours so you must give me an A". Doesn't work that way and you know it.
The answer to a question on a test wouldn't change whether I studied or didn't study. 1+1 is still 2. George Washington is still the first president of the USA. Elephants are still mammals.

I've "studied" what it "supposedly" takes to get a girlfriend, but the answer to this problem is never constant. Again, the only constant seems to be that it is constantly eluding me.

It seems like you are doing everything that you are doing to have sex with a woman and that is the worst thing you could do. Everything you do should be done for yourself, and a woman should just come along for the ride.
This is true to a certain extent, but I think it applies to every man out there short of gay men and eunuchs. I read an interview with a comedian who pretty much said every single act a man commits - even the most trivial like brushing his teeth or eating breakfast - is ultimately to further his chance to have sex with a woman. I totally agree.

That said, sex isn't my priority. I'd be overjoyed just to have a girlfriend, even if she's the type who is totally abstinent until marriage.

But, judging from your last statement, it seems like you have deeper issues with woman altogether and may need to seek some professional help. To hurt a woman who really likes you for who you are, just to get back at the girls who rejected you when you were younger, seems very misogynistic and bitter, and will in no way help you get a woman or sleep with her.
Ah, but at that point, does she like me for who I am? Or because her biological clock is ticking down? I wasn't good enough for her when she was younger and "having fun", but now that she wants to settle down and have kids, I'm suddenly magically "attractive" and that guy who took her out dancing and drinking every weekend isn't?

I don't consider my beliefs negative at all. Just very realistic, shaped by the evidence that I've been presented with throughout my life. I admit I can be -more- positive, but that would be a complete sham.

I've never had any (and I mean ANY - absolute zero) romantic attention from any women (and I mean ANY - absolute zero) in my life. Although I appreciate all advice and will try to incorporate it into my life, if you've so much as even just held hands with a girl outside of kindergarten, I really don't think you can understand my situation fully.
 

Alle_Gory

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slaog said:
You have to attract things into your life. You can attract women by making yourself more attractive. I'm sure all the people on sosuave who have put the effort in are better with women now.
Yeah. But do you see how its backwards?
You can't pursue women, like other things in life.
orly said:
I've "studied" what it "supposedly" takes to get a girlfriend, but the answer to this problem is never constant. Again, the only constant seems to be that it is constantly eluding me.
This is not something you can apply. Its not an act you can just do.
It has to come from inside of you. That's the natural way.

Or if you're really so desperate, take some acting classes and learn how to do the superficial well.
orly said:
I read an interview with a comedian who pretty much said every single act a man commits - even the most trivial like brushing his teeth or eating breakfast - is ultimately to further his chance to have sex with a woman. I totally agree.

That said, sex isn't my priority. I'd be overjoyed just to have a girlfriend, even if she's the type who is totally abstinent until marriage.
LOL. Yeah, that's pretty true. Its true in the reverse too. Why do you think chicks wear makeup, and nice clothes, and perfumes...

Your priority should be to have fun. Sex comes in when its time. It just kind of happens, and you can't push it.
Make the conditions right, and things will fall into place.
 

Single_Sucks

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Not in this field.

Money. Think about money. Get a job at a bank, work your ass off. You make money.
Cars. Think about cars. Get good at driving cars, and work your ass off. You're a pro driver.


Chicks. Think about chicks. Pursue chicks, and work your ass off. You're an AFC.

It's completely backwards.
EXACTLY !!! YOU SAID IT BETTER THAN ME EVEN
 

DonJuan11

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orly said:
The answer to a question on a test wouldn't change whether I studied or didn't study. 1+1 is still 2. George Washington is still the first president of the USA. Elephants are still mammals.

I've "studied" what it "supposedly" takes to get a girlfriend, but the answer to this problem is never constant. Again, the only constant seems to be that it is constantly eluding me.

Your analogy and logic is off. Does the teacher care if you've studied 18 hours or 1 hour? No. All they care about is if you get the question right. Does the employer care if you've spent 18 hours or 1 hour doing the report? No. All he cares about is if you get the report right. Does the woman care if you've "studied" all your life to get a girlfriend? No. Does the woman care you've never had girlfriend? No. Does the woman care that having a girlfriend has constantly eluded you? No. All the woman cares about is if you can turn her on right.

Yes the answer to getting a girlfriend is not constant, it's not logical, it's about tapping into her EMOTIONS. Again, you are saying "because I've done this and this and this, the good looking girl should be my girlfriend" and that is way off base. You cannot tell the exam marker you've studied 1000 hours for the SAT's, thus they better give you an "A". If you are studying the wrong thing, you will fail each and every time.



This is true to a certain extent, but I think it applies to every man out there short of gay men and eunuchs. I read an interview with a comedian who pretty much said every single act a man commits - even the most trivial like brushing his teeth or eating breakfast - is ultimately to further his chance to have sex with a woman. I totally agree.

If there were no women in this world, you wouldn't brush your teeth? You wouldn't eat breakfast? Yes, men try to look better, get better jobs, dress better, groom better, get more friends, usually in the the pursuit of getting into a relationship or having sex with woman, but in the end its for them to be a better person. When you do something to appease another party in hopes of that party giving you want you want, and if they find out, they can and will make life miserable for you. That's no way to live, that's no way to enjoy yourself, that's no way to try new things.


Ah, but at that point, does she like me for who I am? Or because her biological clock is ticking down? I wasn't good enough for her when she was younger and "having fun", but now that she wants to settle down and have kids, I'm suddenly magically "attractive" and that guy who took her out dancing and drinking every weekend isn't?

Yes you are magically attractive now, use it to your full advantage. Play it up, be happy, be fun, be exciting. All those guys that went out dancing and drinking with her when she was younger may not even be able to afford rent right now. Would you like to be in their position?

Yes, you weren't good enough for her back then, you are A+ material now. Everyone has regrets, everyone wishes life were better, everyone wishes they had done things differently, the point is, you have to look towards the future.




I don't consider my beliefs negative at all. Just very realistic, shaped by the evidence that I've been presented with throughout my life. I admit I can be -more- positive, but that would be a complete sham.

I've never had any (and I mean ANY - absolute zero) romantic attention from any women (and I mean ANY - absolute zero) in my life. Although I appreciate all advice and will try to incorporate it into my life, if you've so much as even just held hands with a girl outside of kindergarten, I really don't think you can understand my situation fully.
It appears as though you are doing something fundamentally wrong and again, on the surface, it seems you are too angry at women all together to be able to have a relationship with them. The last paragraph also seems to me you have a sensitive ego, but you may have to give us specific examples on what you are doing when you are asking them out.
 

Paintballguy

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There is one simple answer to this. Women are not logical based thinkers like guys are. Women are fueled by emotions. Anytime one deals with women, one has to completely throw logic out of the window.
 

orly

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Your analogy and logic is off. Does the teacher care if you've studied 18 hours or 1 hour? No. All they care about is if you get the question right. Does the employer care if you've spent 18 hours or 1 hour doing the report? No. All he cares about is if you get the report right. Does the woman care if you've "studied" all your life to get a girlfriend? No. Does the woman care you've never had girlfriend? No. Does the woman care that having a girlfriend has constantly eluded you? No.
1+1 will always be 2. Whether it's a simple question like that or advanced calculus, the answer will be the same. If I don't know the answer, I can study more, or get outside help. But regardless of the amount or type of effort I put in, the answer I arrive at will always be the same. If I don't want to go through the effort at all, I can cheat or google it or whatever, but the answer will still be the same.

All the woman cares about is if you can turn her on right.
And I don't know how the hell I do that. All I know is what hasn't worked, and the list of what might work is growing shorter and shorter. Adding to the confusion is what has never worked for me, does work for other guys, sometimes even with the same girl. See the dilemma? Unlike 1+1, there is no set answer.

The closest thing to a semi-reliable answer seems to become megarich and find a golddigger. No, I do not want to do that.

I can pursue girls, and they'll be disinterested. I can be just do whatever and not care, and they'll be disinterested. I can be friendly and they'll be disinterested. I can be aloof and they'll be disinterested. I can be ****y and aggressive and they'll be disinterested. I can be passive and aloof and they'll be disinterested. Hot girls, ugly girls, tall girls, short girls, fat girls, skinny girls, it's constant across the entire spectrum. I've been the absolute passive AFC, and I've gone all out saying **** it all and leaving a trail of social destruction and scorched earth in my wake. Everything produces the same results: nothing.

Sometimes I wonder if my problem is biochemical, if I'm missing some pheromone or other chemical factor that other guys have. Because really, statistically speaking even if I'm totally messed up, you'd think at least one girl would have shown or reciprocated interest at some point in my life. Drug addicts to bums to bipedal land whales get women. So why don't I?

Friends of both sexes in my life express confusion as to why I'm still and chronically single too. They're of no practical help though, of course. I'm never offered opportunities to be introduced to their single female friends, I'm never offered advice as to what could be wrong with me, always claiming I'm a great guy a girl would be lucky to have.

I'm no so much angry with women as I am frustrated, exhausted, and confused.

If there were no women in this world, you wouldn't brush your teeth? You wouldn't eat breakfast? Yes, men try to look better, get better jobs, dress better, groom better, get more friends, usually in the the pursuit of getting into a relationship or having sex with woman, but in the end its for them to be a better person. When you do something to appease another party in hopes of that party giving you want you want, and if they find out, they can and will make life miserable for you. That's no way to live, that's no way to enjoy yourself, that's no way to try new things.
Everyone does a lot of things to appease other people, even in completely non-sexual ways. That's just a part of living in society. The fact that men want to attract women (and vice a versa) adds just another equation to the mix. For example: some guys living together. Do you think they care if they go farting around all day, or wearing underwear, no deodorant, filthy dishes always in the sink? But what happens when a girl enters the picture?

Right now I'm in my room, wearing a plain T-shirt and shorts, coke bottle glasses, hair messed up. An hour ago when I was out, I was wearing slick jeans, polo, and blazer, contacts, hair neat. Why? Because I'm alone in my room now where no one could care less what I look like. I was out before in the middle of society where I had to look presentable to the people I interact with.

Yes you are magically attractive now....Yes, you weren't good enough for her back then, you are A+ material now. Everyone has regrets, everyone wishes life were better, everyone wishes they had done things differently,
The womenfolk apparently think otherwise.

, use it to your full advantage. Play it up, be happy, be fun, be exciting. All those guys that went out dancing and drinking with her when she was younger may not even be able to afford rent right now. Would you like to be in their position?
Honestly, I don't know. Life isn't all about money and material success, is it?

the point is, you have to look towards the future.
I see a very bright future for myself. I am confident of this. Unfortunately, I have trouble seeing a woman in it.

Give me a year's timeframe. I have more confidence in obtaining a Ferrari in that one year than I have in getting a girlfriend. Give me a lifetime. I have more confidence in becoming Omnipotent Ruler of the World in that timeframe than I have in getting a girlfriend. That's what the evidence in my life is telling me.
 
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Yeah. It is a mental thing for me,that has made me increasingly bitter and angry over the years. It always seemed to me you had to have power,status,phsyical or not,etc to get girls. But I have such a negative inner sense,I can't break out of it,it's like I want someone to come and take it away. I mean,it's not like I go around letting it out on people,but it is there nonetheless.

Being happy/positive seems unreal to me. Crititcal,bitter,and cynical does.

I want to believe in getting a decent women,it just seems impossible to me. Due to either insecurities or anxieties,or seeing myself as unatractive. I obviously want to avoid being used by women,and probably fear rejection,I have spent so long living like this, I feel like it is hard to get out of it.

Just how do you be more attractive? I have an idea of how it works,but can't put it together.The tapping into her emotions thing? The being the guy she likes to be around/comfortable with?


"Does the woman care if you've "studied" all your life to get a girlfriend? No. Does the woman care you've never had girlfriend? No. Does the woman care that having a girlfriend has constantly eluded you? No. All the woman cares about is if you can turn her on right."
Is that true? That she doesn't care about you're past experience's or not? Cause it always seemed to me,and this what has had me worried,even since I was like 16,that if you hadn't been with x amount of girls,and didn't have them chasing you,then you were no good. Or if you had't had sex yet,you were a loser etc. I don't totally still think this way,but am still a long ways off from where I would like to be. How do you turn her on?

This whole thread here, http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=152578 , explains some of my frustrations,angers,and revelations.
 

DonGorgon

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abcd_z said:
Wait. You mean nobody else looked at this post and said "wait a minute, that's not right"?

Women are attracted to certain things. Confidence. Social value. Challenge. And guys that have cars, money, etc. tend to have those things. The problem is, most guys look at just the surface connections. The money, the cars, the muscles. And they think "well, if I just had those, I would be attractive to women." Except, it doesn't work, because that was never what they were attracted to.

We agree ...

"2. Try to become as physically and intellectually attractive as you can then suppliment the deficit with wealth ie. cars house etc.."


Same reasoning..
 
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