Dating has an upside down logic

[Single_Sucks]

When I study hard I get a good job TRUE
When I work hard I get lots of cash TRUE
When I go gym I get bigger muscles TRUE
When I drive I get better at driving TRUE
When I dress well I appear better looking TRUE

In all things in life, when you put in more effort you get more rewards. This is the mindset intelligent and successful people. So naturally we all start with another conclusion:

If I make a big effort to court chicks then they find me attractive FALSE!!!

For some reason the world of DATING IS UPSIDE DOWN. This is why losers always seem to get chicks anyway, because they are naturally lazy. Because when you try hard for her love she is automatically turned off by it, spread rumours about the guy being needy with her friends. Because chicks always want the ******* who plays it cool the whole time, and dosnt give a **** about her.

If I disregard chicks and play hard to get they will want me TRUE

Maybe it's because the effort-reward system only works when the subject is yourself, and breaks down when it involves a chick.

This is what I think.

 

[AwNaw]

I see what you're saying, but I think it depends on the person.

For someone who isn't naturally good with women, and didn't grow up with a lot of examples/solid role models of how a DJ conducts himself, dating can require a lot of effort. For a lot of AFCs and recovering AFCs like myself, it can take a lot of effort to get yourself out there on the dating scene. Also, once you experience a little success, it takes a lot of effort to not put her on a pedastol and keep her at an emotional distance.

Anyway, that's my two cents. If you're not a natural, it's gonna take a lot of effort, even if you have to conceil that effort behind a "i don't give a ****" attitude.

 

[slaog]

For some reason the world of DATING IS UPSIDE DOWN. This is why losers always seem to get chicks anyway, because they are naturally lazy. Because when you try hard for her love she is automatically turned off by it, spread rumours about the guy being needy with her friends. Because chicks always want the ******* who plays it cool the whole time, and dosnt give a **** about her.

It's a skill. It comes naturally for some and not for others. The more time you spend developing this skill the more success with women you will have. Thats a promise. When you finally 'get it' then you'll understand why it comes naturally for some.


Also I should add that there are different views on what people think sucess with women is. For example the bad boys who are "good" with women often are not really good with women because they can't keep them.

 

[DonGorgon]

Look at this logic...

The greater the attraction she has to you = the less work you have to put in to get her to do what you want (date, F whatever)

Women are attracted to different men at different times for different reasons. BUT in todays superficial materialistic world women are very often more attracted to what you have or what you can do for them than they are to you the person...

Attraction is like a living thing.. it is dynamic it can be affected by external stimuli or it can change completely independent of any logic. it can be born it can die but very seldom can it be reborn.

I recommend that you only put any work time or effort into women who are already attracted to you.

 

[Solomon]

Look at this logic...

The greater the attraction she has to you = the less work you have to put in to get her to do what you want (date, F whatever)

Women are attracted to different men at different times for different reasons. BUT in todays superficial materialistic world women are very often more attracted to what you have or what you can do for them than they are to you the person...

Attraction is like a living thing.. it is dynamic it can be affected by external stimuli or it can change completely independent of any logic. it can be born it can die but very seldom can it be reborn.

I recommend that you only put any work time or effort into women who are already attracted to you.

DG i love your logic

But what if the only women who are attracted to you are uglies?

 

[DonGorgon]

DG i love your logic

But what if the only women who are attracted to you are uglies?

Either:
1. Lower your standards and accept that fat uglies are your only choice or
2. Try to become as physically and intellectually attractive as you can then suppliment the deficit with wealth ie. cars house etc..

 

[orly]

This is how my mind works too.

In most things in life, if I work my ass off, I become successful in it. I acknowledge there is a natural inborn talent factor, but even so, if I were to say, practice the piano every day, I'll most likely become a good pianist even if I never become world famous.

But with women, everything revolves around that arcane, enigmatic X factor known as attraction, which I can't seem to generate.

I'm not the paragon of male perfection, but neither is every other guy, and honestly I don't see why no women seem to consider me boyfriend material. You're right in that different women are attracted to different things at different times, but I never seem to be the type any women are attracted to at any time.

I just don't know what the hell is wrong with me, because frankly I don't think anything is wrong with me. I've seen guys who range the gamut of negative qualities get girls (no, this has nothing to do with the bad boy vs nice guy cliche), so why the hell am I the 27 year old virgin?

At the present rate, I see the odds of my buying a Ferrari before the age of 30 being better than my odds of having a girlfriend- remember the "Work hard = get money" statement.

 

[Warrior74]

When I study hard I get a good job TRUE
When I work hard I get lots of cash TRUE
When I go gym I get bigger muscles TRUE
When I drive I get better at driving TRUE
When I dress well I appear better looking TRUE

When she works hard, she gets a man. She has to do that work. Thats why the lazy guy wins...she has to work for him.

 

[slaog]

But with women, everything revolves around that arcane, enigmatic X factor known as attraction, which I can't seem to generate.

I'm not the paragon of male perfection, but neither is every other guy, and honestly I don't see why no women seem to consider me boyfriend material. You're right in that different women are attracted to different things at different times, but I never seem to be the type any women are attracted to at any time.

I just don't know what the hell is wrong with me, because frankly I don't think anything is wrong with me. I've seen guys who range the gamut of negative qualities get girls (no, this has nothing to do with the bad boy vs nice guy cliche), so why the hell am I the 27 year old virgin?

At the present rate, I see the odds of my buying a Ferrari before the age of 30 being better than my odds of having a girlfriend- remember the "Work hard = get money" statement.

I see what your problem is. Negative thinking.


Do you want to attract women? First thing to do is be an attractive person. At the moment you can't even see yourself with any woman before you're 30!! Thats the reality you're creating. When you change your mindset your life will change. In other words we get what we think about.

 

[Alle_Gory]

In other words we get what we think about.

Not in this field.

Money. Think about money. Get a job at a bank, work your ass off. You make money.
Cars. Think about cars. Get good at driving cars, and work your ass off. You're a pro driver.


Chicks. Think about chicks. Pursue chicks, and work your ass off. You're an AFC.

It's completely backwards.

 

[orly]

I see what your problem is. Negative thinking.


Do you want to attract women? First thing to do is be an attractive person. At the moment you can't even see yourself with any woman before you're 30!! Thats the reality you're creating. When you change your mindset your life will change. In other words we get what we think about.

That doesn't answer my dilemma though. Attraction seems undefinable, the only common factor being that I apparently don't have it. Statistically there ought to be some girl out there who ought to be attracted to me. But thus far I am defying statistics.

I see guys who are in a far more negative state of mind than I am with girls, so while that could be -a- factor, I'm not convinced it is the end-all. And besides, I am not negative, I am generally in a good mood.

I work my ass off to improve myself in every aspect of my life. I see progress in every area except for with women. My only explanation is that other areas have logical progression, whereas becoming better with women does not.

And I see other guys who just do nothing - they're lazy, they're fat, they're broke, they have detestable habits, or any variety of other negative qualities - and they still have girls fawning over them.

So I don't know what I'm missing. I'm fairly certain at some point down the road I'll be able to attract some desperate woman who's biological clock is in countdown mode and is looking for some "stable" guy, or maybe a golddigger of some sort. But if that's the first time in my life a woman comes to find me attractive after ignoring me in when I was younger, I think I'll enjoy rejecting her and/or playing with her far more than contemplating any serious relationship with her.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Statistically there ought to be some girl out there who ought to be attracted to me. But thus far I am defying statistics.

Don't give up. You'll figure it out.

I did.

Now if only I can do the same damn thing with chicks I actually like, I'd be all set.

I see guys who are in a far more negative state of mind than I am with girls, so while that could be -a- factor, I'm not convinced it is the end-all. And besides, I am not negative, I am generally in a good mood.

Maybe they're negative about stuff other than women?
They don't think about women.

My only explanation is that other areas have logical progression, whereas becoming better with women does not.

That's right.
Chicks and logic don't work. Don't analyze why. Just find out what does work for you, and apply it. There's nothing to think about because it makes no sense and it will drive you insane.

And I see other guys who just do nothing - they're lazy, they're fat, they're broke, they have detestable habits, or any variety of other negative qualities - and they still have girls fawning over them.

They don't care about the chicks fawning over them.

I think I'll enjoy rejecting her and/or playing with her far more than contemplating any serious relationship with her.

And you can't do that now because...

 

[orly]

Just find out what does work for you, and apply it.

And that, is the million dollar question that I have yet to find the answer too.

And you can't do that now because...

Because the rejection card is in their hand to play and not mine? Everything tells me that the situation will be reversed as time goes by, but I don't want to wait the 5 or 10 years it'll take for that to happen before I get my first girlfriend. Not that I don't yearn to give women a taste of their own medicine.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

this is why,and I will say it,I hate women....

 

[Alle_Gory]

And that, is the million dollar question that I have yet to find the answer too.

Here's the answer: There is no answer.

It doesn't exist. It's all up in your head. Attraction is something very, very abstract. It has no real definition.

Go out, have a good time. And stop worrying about being attractive.

Because the rejection card is in their hand to play and not mine? Everything tells me that the situation will be reversed as time goes by, but I don't want to wait the 5 or 10 years it'll take for that to happen before I get my first girlfriend. Not that I don't yearn to give women a taste of their own medicine.

WHOA! WHOA!

Stop right there.

If you put your hand on a hot stove, is it your fault? Or that the stove was on?

Same thing here. They don't do these things on purpose. Its nothing against you. Its in the female nature. They don't hate you, they don't despise you... well mostly. Some people are just jerks.

So don't take it personally. Understand them, and act accordingly.

I play the pre-emptive rejection game sometimes because its fun, and I like to see them get all flustered. Its funny. I don't do it to get back at them.




You've got to let go of the frustration and the negativity that's bottled up inside.
Somebody hurt you, and now you feel the need to carry this around? You're hurting yourself more now, than anybody ever could.

Let it go.

 

[orly]

Here's the answer: There is no answer.

It doesn't exist. It's all up in your head. Attraction is something very, very abstract. It has no real definition.

Go out, have a good time. And stop worrying about being attractive.

I did that for 27 years. That has gotten me nowhere. Trying hasn't worked. Not trying hasn't worked. Caring hasn't worked. Not caring hasn't worked.

I agree attraction is very abstract, which makes this whole thing all the more frustrating.

WHOA! WHOA!

Stop right there.

If you put your hand on a hot stove, is it your fault? Or that the stove was on?

Same thing here. They don't do these things on purpose. Its nothing against you. Its in the female nature. They don't hate you, they don't despise you... well mostly. Some people are just jerks.

So don't take it personally. Understand them, and act accordingly.

I don't take it personally, and I understand how human nature works. I'm only frustrated because male-female romantic relationships seems like some "elite" club that 99% of the human population is invited to but I'm not for some unfathomable reason. I am perpetually the observer and not allowed to be a participant because I lack the qualifications (the "attraction") to gain entry.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

Hey,alot of this thread relates to some of my problems. One of them being,how do you be attractive? Is it looks? Personality? Skills? Being the best at everything? Or just that women are dumb?

"I don't take it personally, and I understand how human nature works. I'm only frustrated because male-female romantic relationships seems like some "elite" club that 99% of the human population is invited to but I'm not for some unfathomable reason. I am perpetually the observer and not allowed to be a participant because I lack the qualifications (the "attraction") to gain entry."

Yeah.I feel the same way. And when you do,it is hard not to feel embittered,esp when it has been going on you're whole life.

 

[orly]

how do you be attractive? Is it looks? Personality? Skills? Being the best at everything? Or just that women are dumb?

It's been answered: There is no answer. Being "good" at something, or "improving" yourself in some way, can only increase your odds, but is no guarantee. Maybe if you're absolutely fabulously good in some way, as in world-class level, you can approach something close to a guarantee.

I'm trying to improve myself in various ways. I work hard at my job/career. I pursue my hobbies to try to become extremely good at them. I work out 4 times a week to improve my physique. I try to improve my social skills in all my interactions with people. Maybe some of the effort will pay off. Maybe none of it will. There is no guarantee.

 

[DonJuan11]

I work my ass off to improve myself in every aspect of my life. I see progress in every area except for with women. My only explanation is that other areas have logical progression, whereas becoming better with women does not.

There you go, you've answered your question. You cannot tell a woman you are attracted to: "I work hard, I'm rich, I'm funny, I'm ripped, so now you must date me." It all depends how you get to her emotions. The analogy would be studying for a test. You can't tell the examiner "I've studied for 5 hours so you must give me an A". Doesn't work that way and you know it.

And I see other guys who just do nothing - they're lazy, they're fat, they're broke, they have detestable habits, or any variety of other negative qualities - and they still have girls fawning over them.

Again, you are using logic here when talking about women and it doesn't work. These guys probably give her the best sex ever. These guys make her feel like a million bucks. These guys make sure she has fun every weekend when she's with him. If you have a Ferrari and 18 houses across the land, but sit at home with her Friday night watching tv, yet the guy who doesn't have much money takes her dancing with 4 of his couple friends, who do you think she'll eventually pick?

So I don't know what I'm missing. I'm fairly certain at some point down the road I'll be able to attract some desperate woman who's biological clock is in countdown mode and is looking for some "stable" guy, or maybe a golddigger of some sort. But if that's the first time in my life a woman comes to find me attractive after ignoring me in when I was younger, I think I'll enjoy rejecting her and/or playing with her far more than contemplating any serious relationship with her.

It seems like you are doing everything that you are doing to have sex with a woman and that is the worst thing you could do. Everything you do should be done for yourself, and a woman should just come along for the ride.

But, judging from your last statement, it seems like you have deeper issues with woman altogether and may need to seek some professional help. To hurt a woman who really likes you for who you are, just to get back at the girls who rejected you when you were younger, seems very misogynistic and bitter, and will in no way help you get a woman or sleep with her.

 

[slaog]

DJ's don't think that they'll never get a decent woman. Even most AFC's are more positive then that.


First thing Orly and Capedcrusader08 should do is change their beliefs. What they don't understand is that having negative beliefs is like a mental blockage that doesn't allow them to attract women into their lives.

Not in this field.

Money. Think about money. Get a job at a bank, work your ass off. You make money.
Cars. Think about cars. Get good at driving cars, and work your ass off. You're a pro driver.


Chicks. Think about chicks. Pursue chicks, and work your ass off. You're an AFC.

It's completely backwards.

Nope not at all.


You have to attract things into your life. You can attract women by making yourself more attractive. I'm sure all the people on sosuave who have put the effort in are better with women now. It's just a matter of understanding how.


Not much physical effort is required for women like it is for other things. More mental effort is required to attract women. Changing your mentality is harder then changing your body but it's not that hard.