DATING APPS ARE DESTROYING YOUNG MEN AND SHOULD BE BANNED

[Pierce Manhammer]

Dating Apps Are Destroying Young Men And Should Be Banned: HOOKSTEAD

Should dating apps like Tinder and Bubble be banned? OutKick's David Hookstead argues the apps are terrible for young men.

www.outkick.com

Makes a number of very good points.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

At the very least get rid of the match requirement so we can use more game on these broads via direct message.

 

[BadBoy89]

Author of the article: David Hookstead has a 30-year-old girlfriend. So she is fertile and can get pregnant any time in the next 5-6 years. Her net worth is $500,000. His is $1,000,000.

Who Is Shelby Talcott? Insights Her Wikipedia, Parents, & Boyfriend Details

Shelby Talcott is a tennis player, tennis instructor, and news reporter. She doesn't have Wikipedia page.

glamourbiz.com

Now why would a 30-year-old male blogger, whose net worth is in the millions and who has a fertile girlfriend, care SO MUCH about young men not learning how to court women and talk to them and have sex with them? My guess is he got paid at least 5 figures to write that article to attract more followers to the website.

I'm not saying dating apps are good or bad.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

One could say that writing is his craft and that men’s issues are one of his passions.

I’m not here because I’m not getting laid (which I am). I am fascinated by the interaction between the sexes and also I get a glimpse into the minds of young men, it’s utterly fascinating.

My biggest reward is to see other men succeed.

 

[characternote]

At the very least get rid of the match requirement so we can use more game on these broads via direct message.

if she saw you and decided to swipe left, then no 'game' is gonna help, tbh

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

So its again mens fault for not doing what they are supposed to do, what a surprise.
"Men should do this, men are supposed to do that"

Maybe David should write first an article about what led majority of men to rely on dating apps...something like clownlike rejections to brag about it from women? something like faking interest to get free drinks before ghosting the guy? countless flakes....you know that stuff.

Dating apps have a very low rate of return for the average man but also have the lower rate of wasted time and money compared to traditional approaches in 2023, especially after this me2 BS where every man is seeing as a potential predator in the streets.

Worse you get from a dating apps is being ghosted in the convo or flaked on the date that's all.

The fact that if something doesnt work, men stop doing it, apparently its alien to many.

 

[SW15]

At the very least get rid of the match requirement so we can use more game on these broads via direct message.

You can still do that on Match.

What you're suggesting is a return to the 2000s-early 2010s model of online dating. Circa 2010, women's inboxes on OkCupid, Plenty of Fish, and Match were getting pounded from horny and thirsty guys.

Maybe David should write first an article about what led majority of men to rely on dating apps...something like clownlike rejections to brag about it from women? something like faking interest to get free drinks before ghosting the guy? countless flakes....you know that stuff.

He does mention the rejection and glosses over them too easily.

I got shot down A LOT doing this in college. In many ways, you could argue my friends and I carried the spirit of Bob Seger when he sang, “Ain’t good lookin’, but you know I ain’t shy. Ain’t afraid to look you girl, hey, in the eye.”

Getting shot down was the nature of the beast. It led to laughs among friends and variations of, “Did you really think you had a shot with that woman?”

No, but you never know until you swing. Even if it fails 99% of the time, you just need that 1% to feel like you’ve accomplished something. Young men crave adventure and difficult tasks to complete….or at least, they used to.

Depending on how much rejection a man is taking, it can really affect him psychologically. Few men are going to survive those 99 rejections to get one acceptance.

Men today would rather take their 99 rejections from behind an electronic screen.

Dating apps have a very low rate of return for the average man but also have the lower rate of wasted time and money compared to traditional approaches in 2023, especially after this me2 BS where every man is seeing as a potential predator in the streets.

Yes, you're correct dating apps have a low rate of return for the average man.

I disagree with you on the time and money waste though. Plenty of women is wasted through dating apps. Consider all of the low quality "one date, no sex, no second date" dates arranged from swipe apps. Almost none of those dates would have been arranged in the real world, which would save men the cost of those dates. Also, men now need to pay for unlimited swipes to get enough matches to get those low quality dates. That's also a money waste. It takes a lot of time swiping when the match percentage on right swipes is below 1%. Swiping and texting time is inefficient and chews up a lot of time.

A man can easily do free approaches outdoors or inside of indoor retail settings or gyms. A lot of nightlife venues don't have a cover charge and you don't need to buy a woman a drink in a bar to approach her. The majority of men of the last 20 years have spent more money buying drinks from tech-based dates as compared to buying drinks on standard approaches. The days of buying a woman a drink during an approach died last century.

 

[SW15]

Dating Apps Are Destroying Young Men And Should Be Banned: HOOKSTEAD

Should dating apps like Tinder and Bubble be banned? OutKick's David Hookstead argues the apps are terrible for young men.

www.outkick.com

Makes a number of very good points.

He does, but he also has some mistakes.

Let's start with his good points.....

In a matter of minutes, a young man or woman can fire up their phone, create a profile and attempt to meet complete strangers. Instead of meeting in bars, at work, in class, at the gym or anywhere else, everything is now on the phone.

Gone are the days of doing this insane thing called “talking to each other in-person,” everyone can now hide behind a computer or phone screen.

The data indicates dating apps are horrible.

All true.

men are 97% more likely to feel addicted (to dating apps).

This point could have been explored further.

these dating apps are doing an incredible amount of damage. It’s weakened people, crushed the ability to communicate with the opposite sex and is leading to multiple issues

This is a good conclusion.

People need to learn how to communicate in person.

Yes. This is a big problem. Unfortunately, he follows this up with an erroneous historical anecdote.

Fortunately, dating apps only really became a thing my last semester of college at Wisconsin. I had to do what young men today couldn’t envision:

Spot a woman in class, at a party or at the bar and walk up to her to initiate a conversation.

That simply doesn’t happen anymore. Now, young men and women can hide on their phones, say egregious things they wouldn’t ever say in person and swipe away if it goes poorly. There’s no consequences, shame or embarrassment.

It appears that David Hookstead forgot the entire dating website era. 2000-2012 didn't exist according to him (Tinder launched in September 2012). Before dating apps became a thing in his last semester at University of Wisconsin, dating websites were a thing. All the things happening on dating apps in the last 10 years were happening on dating websites after 2005. Dating websites had become de-stigmatized by 2005 and plenty of men were using dating websites from 2005-August 2012, In 2007-2011, it would have been entirely possible for a man to do his entire dating life from a dating website on his laptop. There were a good number of men doing that then.

Dating apps only further mainstreamed all the negative things from dating websites of the late 2000s/early 2010s.

Women have horror stories to share.

Don’t believe me? Ask your daughter, sister or female friend you trust who is on these apps to see the kind of garbage men feel comfortable sending from a phone.

The last sentence is beta/blue pill, though you could make the point it is included to placate a more blue pill audience.

Dating apps let men be cowards and not risk it to win.
Instead of having to walk up to a good looking woman and offer to buy her a drink, young men now have the freedom to sexually proposition complete strangers without any risks.

This sounds like a feminist with women's studies major wrote the 2nd sentence. It was better for men in general to do in-person approaches. I agree that men make statements behind electronic screens that they wouldn't make in-person. David Hookstead acts like this is a male privilege to sexually proposition complete strangers behind an electronic screen. It's not. Also, the typical man on dating apps isn't the man sending the most provocative and disgusting message. The typical man on a dating apps is the one having his completely appropriate messages being ignored.

Young men having access to easy sex with the press of a button might sound fun

Most young men are not having easier access to sex in the last 10 years (2013-present) as compared to 1995-2000. Why are male sexlessness rates higher than with swipe apps? This was a major blind spot in his argument. The typical man is ignored on dating apps, which he does not mention once in this article. Where's the mention of the typical less than 1% match on swipe apps?

 

[Gamisch]

One could say that writing is his craft and that men’s issues are one of his passions.

I’m not here because I’m not getting laid (which I am). I am fascinated by the interaction between the sexes and also I get a glimpse into the minds of young men, it’s utterly fascinating.

My biggest reward is to see other men succeed.

That's the whole point.

If a married man says something like: " all y'all lil feggotz cant even get a woman" , he'll get burned. But when he makes a statement for struggling men he also gets backlash.

Its like a millionaire caring about homelessness .

He does, but he also has some mistakes.

Let's start with his good points.....



All true.



This point could have been explored further.



This is a good conclusion.



Yes. This is a big problem. Unfortunately, he follows this up with an erroneous historical anecdote.



It appears that David Hookstead forgot the entire dating website era. 2000-2012 didn't exist according to him (Tinder launched in September 2012). Before dating apps became a thing in his last semester at University of Wisconsin, dating websites were a thing. All the things happening on dating apps in the last 10 years were happening on dating websites after 2005. Dating websites had become de-stigmatized by 2005 and plenty of men were using dating websites from 2005-August 2012, In 2007-2011, it would have been entirely possible for a man to do his entire dating life from a dating website on his laptop. There were a good number of men doing that then.

Dating apps only further mainstreamed all the negative things from dating websites of the late 2000s/early 2010s.



The last sentence is beta/blue pill, though you could make the point it is included to placate a more blue pill audience.



This sounds like a feminist with women's studies major wrote the 2nd sentence. It was better for men in general to do in-person approaches. I agree that men make statements behind electronic screens that they wouldn't make in-person. David Hookstead acts like this is a male privilege to sexually proposition complete strangers behind an electronic screen. It's not. Also, the typical man on dating apps isn't the man sending the most provocative and disgusting message. The typical man on a dating apps is the one having his completely appropriate messages being ignored.



Most young men are not having easier access to sex in the last 10 years (2013-present) as compared to 1995-2000. Why are male sexlessness rates higher than with swipe apps? This was a major blind spot in his argument. The typical man is ignored on dating apps, which he does not mention once in this article. Where's the mention of the typical less than 1% match on swipe apps?

A kinda agree with you.

This ,especially to us, is old news. The thinh is that more and more mainstream media starts to pick up on it. We've reached a point where almost everyone will know some dude who'll tell you the bitter truth about OLD, and how he gave up on it. So everyone got a sister/friend / gf/colleague who has such a friend.

On top of all this dating is now commercialized and monopolized. Dating is a basic need for humans. So another basic need has been monopolized, like finding and funding a house.

Imo a DJ must find ways to NOT be reliant on OLD. A Dj knows hiw to talk to a woman.

 

[SW15]

This ,especially to us, is old news. The thinh is that more and more mainstream media starts to pick up on it.

Outkick is not the mainstream media. Outkick has a lot lower brand recognition than ABC, NBC, CBS, The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, etc.

Outkick founder Clay Travis was a member of the mainstream media as a sports radio host in the past. He has also appeared on Fox News and CNN in the past. Here's his appearance on CNN in 2017 which caused a stir when he irked feminist then-CNN host Brooke Baldwin about boobs.

Fox News conservative pundit Tomi Lahren also has an Outkick podcast/video podcast.

Tomi Lahren has been featured on SoSuave forums for an epic rant she made about men in August 2020 following her failed engagement. 13 months after her epic internet rant, a rich simp puts a ring on her finger. It's like he never watched her viral internet rant where she trashed men.

Tomi Lauren is fed up with players who consider her to be a plate

https://www.dailywire.com/news/a-lot-of-men-are-trash-tomi-lahren-posts-14-minute-psa-for-boyish-men

www.sosuave.net

We've reached a point where almost everyone will know some dude who'll tell you the bitter truth about OLD, and how he gave up on it.

I'm not sure that's true. I'm not sure that's permeated the married woman with children social circle bubbles yet. I think you have a valid point that more and more people know some man that has had a bad experience on the swipe apps.

So everyone got a sister/friend / gf/colleague who has such a friend.

Women can have some good experiences on apps, getting validation and bolstering her self-esteem. When women run into problems on apps is when they try to get commitment from Top 10% men.

a DJ must find ways to NOT be reliant on OLD. A Dj knows hiw to talk to a woman.

Yes. Men are better off focusing their efforts into some real life method of arranging dates.

 

[Gamisch]

Outkick is not the mainstream media. Outkick has a lot lower brand recognition than ABC, NBC, CBS, The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, etc.

Outkick founder Clay Travis was a member of the mainstream media as a sports radio host in the past. He has also appeared on Fox News and CNN in the past. Here's his appearance on CNN in 2017 which caused a stir when he irked feminist then-CNN host Brooke Baldwin about boobs.

Fox News conservative pundit Tomi Lahren also has an Outkick podcast/video podcast.

Tomi Lahren has been featured on SoSuave forums for an epic rant she made about men in August 2020 following her failed engagement. 13 months after her epic internet rant, a rich simp puts a ring on her finger. It's like he never watched her viral internet rant where she trashed men.

Tomi Lauren is fed up with players who consider her to be a plate

https://www.dailywire.com/news/a-lot-of-men-are-trash-tomi-lahren-posts-14-minute-psa-for-boyish-men

www.sosuave.net

I'm not sure that's true. I'm not sure that's permeated the married woman with children social circle bubbles yet. I think you have a valid point that more and more people know some man that has had a bad experience on the swipe apps.



Women can have some good experiences on apps, getting validation and bolstering her self-esteem. When women run into problems on apps is when they try to get commitment from Top 10% men.



Yes. Men are better off focusing their efforts into some real life method of arranging dates.

Well, the fact he's invited on CNN means he's more than a random Youtuber. I should've said: it's slowly seeps into the mainstream media. Lets not forget that ths is a highly controversial topic that nobody likes to talk about. I am European so I've never heard of Outkick, but the fact he is connected to such a big platform tells me a lot.

Women mostly will be confronted by this due having a son, a cousin, a neighbor with a son or something like that. "I dont know why he's ALWAYS in his room playing games and he never goes out. Is he ghey?". This types of conversations taking place more and more.

The only reason why this gets more coverage is because of women. They start to notice that men are pulling back. Eventually getting ran through by the same Chad and Tyrone, never being able to get a real connection is like prison for women. And also, lets not forget that never getting approached =the anxiety of not being able to approach. Loneliness =loneliness.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Just like with anything else, OLD is a skill unto itself in learning how to become good and efficient at it. For me it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Easy to get matches, dates and sex.

 

[Gamisch]

Just like with anything else, OLD is a skill unto itself in learning how to become good and efficient at it. For me it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Easy to get matches, dates and sex.

Well, perhaps it about time you share some of your secrets bruh!
-what kinda pictures do you have? How many? Professionally taken ? Selfies or nah? Settings?
- bio?
-subscriptions or not?
-types of apps
-location
- lied about age or nah?
-power swiper or a picky swiper?

I got many more questions but lets start here.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Well, perhaps it about time you share some of your secrets bruh!
-what kinda pictures do you have? How many?
- bio?
-subscriptions or not?
-types of apps
-location
- lied about age or nah?
-power swiper or a picky swiper?

I got many more questions but lets start here.

I am mostly on Hinge and Bumble when I am looking for women to add to the pipeline. POF and OKC used to be pretty good for me going back 5-7 years ago but they totally suck now in this area and POF in general is terrible now. Might as well be a paid site with how limited your options are as a free member.

Have a couple pics of me and then a pic of my sleeve and some pics from various nature hikes/waterfalls I have been too. Those generate lots of likes and discussion,they are some cool places in the area that a lot of people don't know about. Most women on these apps lead boring lives and it's exciting for them when they see people who go to places they have never seen because they assume you go to new places all the time and they can tag along. Highly recommend adding these, it's like a giant billboard advertising saying "I'm fun and exciting and I am not boring like all these other guys".

Subscription as in paid subscription? Never and won't ever. Completely unnecessary.

I'm in a metro area of slightly over a million people. Big enough but not a huge city.

Nope, don't lie about age. The only "shady" thing I do is add 2 inches to my height. I am 5'8", but I put 5'10". This has only gotten called out 2 or 3 times over the years in the hundreds of dates I have been on.

Not a power swiper. I actually read profiles because it helps in two ways. First it helps me get an idea of the type of person they are. Serious, fun, wiccan, religious, political, etc and that helps me decide if they are even worth my time. Also helps me in determining if we are going to have any type of vibe at all. If some chick is talking about politics on her dating profile it's a hard pass for me, not sure why guys only look at pics and then waste time with women they are completely incompatible with. That's one of the first screening processes guys should be doing. Eliminating incompatible women based on their profiles, but most guys skip this step...clearly to their detriment. They think they are saving time but they are actually wasting more time in the end by going on dates with some of these women.

Secondly, it allows me to craft individually tailored opening messages to something in their profile and maybe ask them a question about something in there. Cannot tell you how many times they have commented that they liked that I actually read their profile and sent them a message worth reading and responding to.

 

[CornbreadFed]

No, just get good

 

[Divorced w 3]

According to AttachmentTheory.com - majority of app users have anxiety. Personal experience is that explains a lot

 

[BackInTheGame78]

According to AttachmentTheory.com - majority of app users have anxiety. Personal experience is that explains a lot

Majority of app users fixate on one women instead of creating deep pipelines, which means they place way too much importance on any on interaction with a woman. This means instead of being able to relax in person on a date they are thinking they "have to do well" and putting pressure on themself because it's their only option.

They go on one date and if it's goes badly they are ruined mentally for 2 weeks.

Instead what they should be doing is working on gathering 3-5 numbers a day, setting up multiple dates during the week and then going on dates and keeping the ones worthwhile for second dates and eliminating the ones not worthwhile.

Me? I have 2 or 3 more dates lined up that week and am getting more numbers daily so I could care less how any one interaction goes because there will be more around the corner.

That's how you build a pipeline...the first thing you should be doing after a first date with a woman no matter how good it went is setting up 2-3 more dates with new women before you see her again. Because no matter how good the date went, even if you fvcked her, there is no guarantee you will ever see her again.

Men are not willing to accept this as reality and it causes them issues because of their unwillingness to simply accept it and then play the game according to this reality.

 

[SW15]

Well, the fact he's invited on CNN means he's more than a random Youtuber. I should've said: it's slowly seeps into the mainstream media. Lets not forget that ths is a highly controversial topic that nobody likes to talk about. I am European so I've never heard of Outkick, but the fact he is connected to such a big platform tells me a lot.

In more recent years, Clay Travis has been on Fox News more than CNN. I don't think he ever appeared on CNN again after that incident in 2017. That incident in 2017 went hugely viral at the time and probably raised the profile of both Clay Travis and Outkick.

Women mostly will be confronted by this due having a son, a cousin, a neighbor with a son or something like that. "I dont know why he's ALWAYS in his room playing games and he never goes out. Is he ghey?". This types of conversations taking place more and more.

This is a legitimate point. It could be seeping into women's consciousness if they see their son, brother, cousin, neighbor with a son, getting sent to the rejection pile by single women. I don't know if women would actively be thinking about broader societal consequences when they see this. I haven't been seeing this conversation happening more in my social circles but it is possible that is happening more.

The only reason why this gets more coverage is because of women. They start to notice that men are pulling back. Eventually getting ran through by the same Chad and Tyrone, never being able to get a real connection is like prison for women. And also, lets not forget that never getting approached =the anxiety of not being able to approach. Loneliness =loneliness.

I don't think most unmarried women are noticing men pulling back. The type of man who is pulling back is a man who was already sent to the rejection pile by most of the women in that geography. After a certain number of rejections, most men will pull out of the market and go MGTOW, only pay directly for sex, etc. I don't think the average woman misses the average MGTOW man because she had already rejected him. Rollo has said many times that the average woman isn't interested in the average man.

Many men are invisible to women. The average woman with a bachelor's degree and a white collar job isn't thinking about how often the average guy flipping burgers at McDonald's is getting laid.

There are many TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube videos with 35-40+ white collar women wondering about where the good men have gone but that's it. Also, the typical 40 year old woman complaining on social media outlets about dating also has 100+ options in her swipe app queue so what's her problem? She still has abundance.

The biggest difference in the mating market of the last ~15-20 years or so is that women are sending a larger percentage of men to the rejection pile than they did before they had abundance. Dating websites and later dating apps gave women more abundance of prospects, making them fussier. Social media and tech-based dating have allowed more women to have more options and demand the Top 10% of men. The top 10% of men have a tool that can enable them to have sex with more women efficiently as compared to solely approaching in the real world, where it would be more difficult to put up higher notch counts. Prior to tech-based dating, a higher value man would be more incentivized to settle down with a higher tier woman close to his own SMV to avoid the hassle of approaching and constantly building a new rotation. Now, swipe apps have made rotation building easier for him. It's the average to slightly above average men who have suffered. A 70th percentile guy in 1985-1990 had a chance of having a decent wife and stable relationships. Now, a 70th percentile guy (not a bad guy) is fighting for relevance and often getting sent to the rejection pile as the thread below discusses. Women sent a smaller percentage of men to the rejection pile prior to tech-based dating.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Divorced w 3]

Majority of app users fixate on one women instead of creating deep pipelines, which means they place way too much importance on any on interaction with a woman. This means instead of being able to relax in person on a date they are thinking they "have to do well" and putting pressure on themself because it's their only option.

They go on one date and if it's goes badly they are ruined mentally for 2 weeks.

Instead what they should be doing is working on gathering 3-5 numbers a day, setting up multiple dates during the week and then going on dates and keeping the ones worthwhile for second dates and eliminating the ones not worthwhile.

Me? I have 2 or 3 more dates lined up that week and am getting more numbers daily so I could care less how any one interaction goes because there will be more around the corner.

That's how you build a pipeline...the first thing you should be doing after a first date with a woman no matter how good it went is setting up 2-3 more dates with new women before you see her again. Because no matter how good the date went, even if you fvcked her, there is no guarantee you will ever see her again.

Men are not willing to accept this as reality and it causes them issues because of their unwillingness to simply accept it and then play the game according to this reality.

No argument whatsoever. Any salesperson knows that the key to keeping their nerves steady and success is having lots of names to meet with, thereby reducing the concern greatly over a single outcome, and also that usually 2/10 of them will turn into a long term client further reinforcing the need for pipelines.. if the numbers fit in personality driven business dealings there is no reason that human dynamics wouldn’t carry over to dating.

 

[kavi]

Is it really true that so many young men and women are not having sex.

Im dubious about this.

In the past more men and women were in ltrs with the odd hookup. Nowadays young ppl have more hookup partners vs ltrs compared to the past.

For sure the market has moved more towards hookups so that will benefit certain types of men (and women) compared to the past with so there will be men getting less sex than in the past if they are not as good or willing to engage in hookups.

But i find it contradictory to say young ppl are not having as much sex as going by my observations there is lots of hookups going on so how can that be.