Dating a girl who has 'a guy' as a friend

[odysseus84]

Hi!

This is my first post so please bear with me. I've been lurking around on this forum (and blogs such as heartiste, tomassi & dalrock) for quite a while. Despite having a moderate success with women and having been red-pill aware for years, I don't consider myself worthy a title of any kind of 'DJ'. I associate my ease of getting girls more with my good looks and general personality than "good" game. Furthermore, I'm not much into the practice of spinning plates - partly because it doesn't fit into my world view and partly because I don't feel the need for constant ****ing. My goal is more aligned with finding STRs/LTRs and meanwhile, enjoying the single life (without the hassle of juggling multiple women).

Nonetheless, I've wandered here today to seek advice from people who are senior to me in their knowledge of the womanly ways.

For some reason, me approaching the magical 3 - 0 has really made the girls in the age bracket of 18 - 23 to have hots towards me. This suits me, and in the beginning of this month I met a very cute girl who is just turning 20. She seems to be quite a sweet person, low notch count, isn't interested in ****ing around, no army of male orbiters in her FB, history of pretty much only STRs/LTRs (3 of them). No red flags had popped up before this weekend except the constant need for texting that is typical to younger girls.

Now, we've had very good time together and her IL has been extremely high. She has been pushing me towards exclusive dating saying that she simply can't stand it if I'm seeing other women. She thinks I'm having a queue of women waiting in line and she's been very anxious about it. I have kept up the veil of ambiguosity on purpose and moreover I've established strong boundaries (about fidelity, honesty, not making new male acquaintances, etc.) and said that I WILL walk if she ever crosses those. Apparently because of me being quite strong about the boundaries, she has been in a constant worry of me giving her boot if she makes a wrong move. However, last weekend I told her that I don't want to see other women (I know, a mistake maybe).

Now, one thing I think some people here would disagree with is that I've not told her to cut contact to all her male friends (and exes). In my social circle it tends to be usual to be in good terms with your ex and this doesn't mean anything - an ex is an ex.

I'm not concerned about her exes. However, the thing that troubles me a bit now is someone she calls just "a guy". This dude is a bit older than me and has ****ed her multiple times in the past (maybe even before her LTRs). After her last relationship ended in January she rekindled the contact with this "guy". It's only my speculation, but when I heard about this "friend" I got immediately some "A Guy" (http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/15/the-a-guy/) vibes.

Last weekend this girl was staying over at my place and at some point she gets a message and disappears to my bedroom for a while with her cell. I didn't think this as strange at that time and she's been very openly showing me her all texting conversations. However, around 4 am when we are sleeping her phone beeps multiple times. I open my eyes and see her being on her guard and looking at the messages. This seems a bit strange to me when compared to her normal behaviour.

In the next morning she tells me that "the guy" texted her and tried to get her into his place for a ****. I ask her if she told this guy that she's now seeing me. She said that no, she told him that she's on her periods (not true) because in the past every time she's been involved with someone, as soon as this "guy" has found out he has tried to come between her and her bf.

I know it was a weakness in me, but I couldn't just keep my cool completely after hearing this and I told her that I'm a bit pissed off that she is disrespecting me by answering to a text from a guy who she has been ****ing with while she is spending time with me at my place. She seemed anxious and told me that she now fears that I'll give him the boot and said that she's sorry. I restated my boundaries and we parted in good terms a couple of hours later.

The aforementioned incident decreased my own IL towards her and left me thinking. Yesterday, after some pondering, I communicated with her via text that from now on it's ok for both of us to be seeing other people because if she is having this guy around so will I be having my gals around. She seemed to be really saddened by this and said that she doesn't wants to be seeing only me, not him. I told her that in my relationships we'll be playing with equal rules and she said that she wantsto keep this guy as a friend but that she's going to tell him that she's seeing me. She also restated that she doesn't want us to be seeing other people. I only answered her that I'm good with both options, seeing other people or not.

O' wise sages, do you think this "guy" is a serious threat or not? I know the best play would probably have been to just disregard that dude entirely... But I'm merely an aspiring "alpha male". Did I only achieve a "pyrrhic" victory by forcing her to make a clear choice? Any other insights about the situation? I really wouldn't want to just NEXT her because she has been displaying good qualities otherwise.

Thank you!

 

[odysseus84]

Ha, too late.

She sent me a message that she wants to return a certain item she borrowed from me and also have a "talk" about us in the next weekend... I felt anxious of losing her and, in a moment of monumental stupidity, caved in and called her upon reading the message and told her that I don't want to see other people. IOW, she called my "bluff" of seeing other people by upping the ante. Which probably was what she wanted.

So now she got what she wanted (exclusivity) but I lost the frame and have no idea how to get it back. Relationship over or still opportunity of salvaging it? Her IL was extremely high, not sure about that anymore.

Moreover, I really hate my moments of weakness. I can keep myself in check pretty well but then I just sometimes get these anxiety attacks out of the blue and lose my cool and ability to think clearly and just act. Advices?

 

[backbreaker]

I have a female friend, probably my best friend actually. she has a BF and while she's attractive, it's just not like that between us. I don't see her like that and I seriously doubt she sees me like that. But I have a woman and she has a man. I guess it's beucse I don't have reason to entertain the thought of her like that and her the same.


However your situation is different. The dude is not so much a friend as much as a **** on standby lol.


There's lines I don't cross with my friend. I don't call her at night unless it's work (my company built her website that's how we met) related and by work related I mean, oh **** you'r site's gone lol". When I know she's with her BF I leave her alone. When she knows I'm with my wife she (unless it's work related) she leves me alone. We don't make innuendos we don't flirt with each other.


You're dating a young confused girl who wants her cake and to eat it too. I'm not going to call you alpha or him alpha, she just isn't old enough / mature enough to "choose". She is leading him on enough to where he thinks he has a hcnace and that's disrespectful.


I could not take her seriously i don't care what she wants. I would not even so much mind if she came out and said look here is hte deal. I like you but i like him too, i don't know yet. I can respect that, honesty. What I can't respect is the whole I want to be exclusive / hiding in the closet talking on the phone beeps at 4am in the morning. YOu can go somewhere with that


Think about it like this. I have a fast rule of thumb I apply when I am assessing what I should do with a woman when I was single and that is, would I do what the girl just did / how would I expect a woman to react if I did this? If I was hanging out with a chick and I went into another room and shut the door to talk on the phone with another braod the girl I was with would probably start throwing knives at me lol. Nor would I do that. I spun plates when I was single but i was never that brazen to just, say hold on and go in the other room to talk to someone else lol.

I mean, if a girl is over my house spending the night I had the wherewithal to cut the phone off so it doesn't blink. this girl is so obsessed with this dude, that she can't even give you that.


And you just said you wanted to date this chick. best of luck man. i don't know what to tell you.


as a man, if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything.

 

[odysseus84]

Thanks for the reply backbreaker!

I appreciate your input, especially your rule of thumb seems like a sound way to measure the actions of a girl. However, I think I might have misrespresented the situation a bit. The girl had told me about this friend "guy" before (no details but I smelled something when she was peculiarly referring to him only as "a guy" of a past). Nevertheless, this was the first time the guy texted her while we häd been hanging together. Moreover, according to her she hasn't seen this guy after she met me (which is plausible as this guy lives in another city far enough).

I know he isn't an immediate threat (her IL was extremely high) but I was originally wondering what would be the effect of this kind of "a guy" stalking in the background. He is surely a "**** on standby", but is she suspectible to biting the bait in the long run? Disregarding him would've probably been the best strategy for me, as now I've given too much value to him but I can't change this anymore.

Anyway, the whole dynamics now changed as I failed to keep the frame. A mistake I sorely regret as before me freaking out about this guy everything was chugging merrily along.

She knows already a lot about my boundaries and in the past was fearful of not stepping on them (minus the "a guy" texting incident which I think she didn't understand as dispespectful at first). I'm now contemplating that upon seeing her the next time I will discuss this new "exclusivity" with her and state all my boundaries firmly and then tell her that if she isn't ok with them it ends here and now.

I know my position is now significantly weaker without as strong frame as I held before, but I don't see many paths out of the situation and to re-establish quickly even some frame. What's more, I feel that I have a tendency to give up too easily when facing these kind of challenges (lost the upper hand) and I wouldn't like to just take the easy out and run from this situation (unless it truly is doomed). Any advice appreciated!

 

[odysseus84]

She's a hor that enjoys fvxking multiple men and rubbing it in your face. This girl is LOW quality, not high quality. Waif-type. You don't have exclusivity, its been what, a month? She won't stop seeing this guy.

Thank you for the reply!

In the past I dated a BPD chick and made a wow to not make that mistake ever again. I'm on my guard for the typical BPD behaviour to surface. That said, it seems really interesting that you think this is a waif-type girl. Hmm. Care to elaborate on those warning signs that you can read from my description of the situation because for some reason I'm somewhat unable to do that although I've read about the BPD Waif characteristics before.

Also, I know that in this forum it is (very well understandably) common to categorize a girl quickly as a hor or something like that because in many cases it's true. I'm just wondering if it's a bit too quick categorization as she's been showing only positive qualities before this incident. She also told me that she has told the guy about the situation now. Of course that's what she is saying and I don't have a proof.

Well, maybe I'm being too lenient. I definitely have to meditate on these answers here!

 

[Kailex]

Last weekend this girl was staying over at my place and at some point she gets a message and disappears to my bedroom for a while with her cell.

I thought you said there were no red flags about this girl? How is this NOT a huge red flag?

I didn't think this as strange at that time and she's been very openly showing me her all texting conversations. However, around 4 am when we are sleeping her phone beeps multiple times. I open my eyes and see her being on her guard and looking at the messages. This seems a bit strange to me when compared to her normal behaviour.

HUGE, HUGE, HUGE red flag. What in the BLUE HELL are you thinking? It's not only disrespectful for someone to text anyone at that hour but she actually was LOOKING at the messages at that time?

Get used to it buddy, this is what you signed up for.

In the next morning she tells me that "the guy" texted her and tried to get her into his place for a ****. I ask her if she told this guy that she's now seeing me. She said that no, she told him that she's on her periods (not true) because in the past every time she's been involved with someone, as soon as this "guy" has found out he has tried to come between her and her bf.

This paragraph RIGHT here is exactly why I felt the need to respond.

THINK about this for one second. Just sit there and THINK.

She didn't say:
"No, I don't want to."
"No, I am with someone right now."
"WTF are you doing texting me at 4 AM"
or the preferred option... NOT TO ANSWER A TEXT AT THAT HOUR.

Her response was that she was on her period... so you don't think the guy is going to try again in say... 4-5 days? What's her excuse then? She's not shutting him down AT ALL. She just said, "Her period." And you know... he tries every time because it probably works too. It's only a matter of time, brother.

I know it was a weakness in me, but I couldn't just keep my cool completely after hearing this and I told her that I'm a bit pissed off that she is disrespecting me by answering to a text from a guy who she has been ****ing with while she is spending time with me at my place.

It's disrespectful to you no matter where she is texting from or what time. I'm sure she'd LOVE it if some girl was texting you at 4 AM asking you for a booty call and you got right up and texted back right away.

She seemed anxious and told me that she now fears that I'll give him the boot and said that she's sorry. I restated my boundaries and we parted in good terms a couple of hours later.

She's 20...

The aforementioned incident decreased my own IL towards her and left me thinking. Yesterday, after some pondering, I communicated with her via text that from now on it's ok for both of us to be seeing other people because if she is having this guy around so will I be having my gals around.

She's 20... this is how you should be regardless of the situation.

She seemed to be really saddened by this and said that she doesn't wants to be seeing only me, not him. I told her that in my relationships we'll be playing with equal rules and she said that she wantsto keep this guy as a friend but that she's going to tell him that she's seeing me.

An ultimatum? Let's see how long that lasts. Best way to test it... have her stay over again and see if she gets texts at an ungodly hour and then responds to them.

She also restated that she doesn't want us to be seeing other people. I only answered her that I'm good with both options, seeing other people or not.

O' wise sages, do you think this "guy" is a serious threat or not?

You are going about this the WRONG way. It's not the "guy" you should worry about. It's HER. You have to worry about HER and her actions. It doesn't matter what he does as long as SHE has set boundaries... which she clearly hasn't. She's 20, man. The fact that you have somewhat pedestalized her and are taking her that seriously is kinda worrisome.

I know the best play would probably have been to just disregard that dude entirely... But I'm merely an aspiring "alpha male". Did I only achieve a "pyrrhic" victory by forcing her to make a clear choice? Any other insights about the situation? I really wouldn't want to just NEXT her because she has been displaying good qualities otherwise.

Be careful the woman who becomes comfortable because she thinks you have no other options. I'd warn you about getting too comfortable with a 20 year old woman. You need to stop worrying so much about THIS GUY and start worrying about THAT GIRL.

There is no pyrrhic victory in this. You aren't really getting what you want, she is. And I bet that guy won't stop texting and she won't stop responding either. She LOVES the attention.

You might have said you two are exclusive and whatnot, but if I were you, I'd treat the situation as if you weren't. She's 20... don't take her seriously, go out with other women. Save yourself from future mental anguish.

 

[Greasy Pig]

Welcome OP! Tough situation which has been made worse by you falling for a classic shyt test.
Your girl is actively maintaining contact with this dude in your presence and she lied to him about why she couldn't fvck him.
This is crappy behaviour born of immaturity.
She doesn't want to hurt the other guy's feelings by ceasing contact and that's classic young chick behaviour.
I'd watch her actions closely and if she continues to sneak off to interact with this dude or reply to him at 4am, next her.
I was in your situation a couple of years ago and let the scent of young pvssy severely cloud my judgment and I paid a huge emotional price.
Young chicks just don't get it, but it doesn't mean you should abide it.

 

[zekko]

Girls at that age don't understand what exclusivity is and it is a mistake to pursue it with her. She's too young and immature, and sounds like she has a bit of the hor in her to boot. You should find other options, she clearly has them.

 

[jonhaul]

I only date girls as young as 22 anymore I suggest you may look into doing the same.

 

[cordoncordon]

OP you are really REALLY putting up with a lot if you are willing to not only let this girl disappear into the other room to talk to another guy while she is with you, but also to stay with her after she is texting the guy while in the same bed with you. Add in the fact that she never told him about you but instead told him she is on her period? Cmon man. This is ridiculous.

What you would tell a friend if they had a gf doing those same things as she is to you? I bet you know the answer. Leave her.

And now you gave her exclusivity after her little power play? End well this will not.

You have totally lost any power here. She has you by a rope around your neck and she knows it. And this is a 20 year old girl? And you are near 30?

OP I have seen some sad cases around here but this ranks up near the top of them. And the sad thing is you just told her to be exclusive so going back on that now would just make you look like an insane person. I really don't even know what to tell you to do. I guess just TRY and play it cool. Don't ask about this guy. See if he keeps texting her.

I don't know. You are kinda screwed atm.

 

[AttackFormation]

Stop taking her hamster seriously and judge by her actions.

This girl is seeing you and another guy at the same time, so either drop her or start seeing your other girls too. She can make all the sobbing victim viewpoint stories she wants about it but that's what she's doing. But then again it looks to me like you f*cked up a bit, maybe she'll make the choice for you in the near future.

 

[Colossus]

OP you are getting played like a fiddle. P-L-A-Y-E-D.

SHe is using her assets (looks and youth) combined to with your ignorance to WIN and run roughshod all over you.

Do yourself a huge man-favor and don't ever call, text, or speak to her again. Then breathe the free air, my friend.

 

[Echoes]

She's 20?

I would say keep banging her and don't give a **** about the other guy. Seriously...I know many guys here will say this is bad advice, and maybe it is....but trust me....when you get to be my age (mid 40's) you will say to yourself "damn why did I next that chick? She was providing me with fresh 20 yo ***** and I got all upset about some other dude? WTF was I thinking?"

I would tell her you don't care at all about that other guy, if she wants to **** him then whatever...it's cool. But you have to actually feel that way...not just say it.

This will short-circuit her little brain so fast she won't know what hit her. And she'll probably think "wait....does he still like me?" and start ignoring the other guy because she needs to 'win' with you.

Take my advice or not but....she's only 20. Who gives a ****? Seriously...who cares? If she's banging some other guy who cares? I wouldn't.

I'll probably get flamed for this but I don't care. Speaking from the other side of 40, I'll most likely never see 20 yo ****** again so I would keep getting it on with her and seriously not give two ****s about who else she is banging. Just wrap that **** up...and don't develop any feelings for her. She ain't ready for that.

 

[Malcontent]

Sure.

Any woman who is this:



And somehow also this:



Is obviously running mind-fvck waif game on your sorry a$$. Flush the ho.

Man, I could've used this advice a few years ago (though I probably wouldn't have heeded it).

I got with a 19 y.o. and tried for 2 years to make a relationship work. There were many red flag similarities to the OP's story, but, like a dumb fukk, I kept trying to make it work because I thought she was an HB9.9. I loved the way she looked on the end of my dikk and compromised every principle to keep that puzzy around. My gut kept telling me she was a red flag factory but my little head was yelling for more.

To the OP, my ex started out very sweet. She'd do things like clean my house without me asking, cook dinner, buy me little gifts, make thoughtful cards from scratch. She'd meet me at work at the end of my shift. We'd bang on the balcony, on the couch, on the floor. She'd share expenses at dinner. We agreed to openness, honesty, mutual effort and responsibility.

But...

She kept in contact with her ex and would every few months do the "I think I still love him" thing.
Seemed to know a lot of guys.
Touchy with other guys. Hugs, forearm touches that lasted too long, etc.
Started hiding her phone and taking it with her everywhere -- even to pee.
And much much more!!!

It was the most traumatizing relationship I have ever had with a woman. I usually cry at least a little bit at the end of any LTR, but for some reason I never have with this one. I think perhaps it was my red pill experience.

If you are a stubborn basstard like I am, you will do what you want even if it crushes you.

It just all sounds so eerily familar.

 

[GS750]

She's seeing both of you. She's told you about him, but hasn't told him about you? My guess is that she knows if she tells him about you, he'll walk. So she says "I cant see you, I'm on my period". Seems like she wants to lock you in but continue to play the field herself. I see heartache on the horizon for you if you continue on with this girl.