Date/Kino Results - I'm confused

[skinnydart]

I decided to use some kino on this next date with this girl I like to gauge her IL. (3rd date) I figured it would go as most of the kino posts read, if she pulls back, low il/friend zone, returns kino means your in. So we're sitting there in the play and after a short inward battle I forced my hand to start moving, I put my hand around her shoulder, looked at her and smiled. Other than a slight instinctive-like flinch and a light touch to my hand when I first touched her, she didn't do anything, didn't move her head or anything, but didn't pull away or lean closer at all, just kept sitting there with her arms folded looking straight ahead as she was before. She didn't even look at me. So I'm sitting there thinking uhh, ok what do I do now?

2 min (seemed like 20) later it was the intermission, she immediately asked if she could go make a phone call real quick, then she dissapears. As I'm coming back from the restroom I pass her in the hall on the phone and by the way she's talking/acting and looking at me when I pass, she's saying somethng about me and hugging. I mean why the heck would she have to "make a quick phone call" during the intermission of our date. I'm all confused at this point. So now I have shown her where I'm at by letting her know the nature of my interest for her but she hasn't reciprocated so I'm still in the dark.

When she got back to our seats and were chatting a little before the play began again, I noticed she was playing with her hair more. (or maybe I just wasn't paying attention before?)

I would have tried that "Don_Joffe movie tactic" but her hands were between her crossed legs. I had never paid attention but when I looked around I saw lots of girls doing it... and I'm not about to go digging her hands out of her crotch... girls are wierd.

It wouldn't be that big of a deal but this is kinda symbolic of the whole "relationship". Her IL just appears completely neutral, it's so weird. She won't turn me down for no reason when I ask her out but at the same time it's almost impossible to get anywhere with her, and she'll never call me without me inniciating it. I mean, it appears like when she has nothing else to do she'll go out with me, but if she has anything "in the way" at all she won't go out of her way even a little bit to make a date happen.

I've been waiting for clear low or high interest signs to dictate my next move but I don't really get anything, no high IL or rejection. Is there another way of gauging the interest?

Note: she's quiet.

Also, we both have classes all morning, I work all afternoon and she works all evenings, even on the weekends, so it makes it really hard to get together and do anything. She's trying to graduate in 3 years and she doesn't have rich parents that provide her with money so it's kinda understandable why she's so busy. Maybe she's just to busy to be someone's gf? (what I'm looking for).

 

[Wiesman44]

quiet or not she'd show interest if she liked you. Believe me, they're all the same. She's clearly not interested. Ditch her for a better girl.

 

[Mojo604]

just ask her "do you like me"? ...if she says "no"- well then, there u go... but if she says "yes"- then ask "how much"

or something

 

[Skweints]

Okay, one kino move comes off as awkward. So all you did was put your arm around her shoulders, looked at her, and smiled... creeeeeeeeeepy... that would make me feel weird if I was her...

Look man, when you kino a girl, you have to kino her when it seems like it would go unnoticed, as if it was SUPPOSED to happen. If she's talking about something, and says something stupid, roll your eyes and touch her on her leg. As you touch her more and more, you'll be able to grab her and pull her towards you, etc. You won't see immediate results, but they are there, trust me. Kino has more of a subconcious effect on people then anything else.

Start off little, and before you know it, you can make BIG moves on her... all it takes is a LITTLE patients... yes, only a LITTLE... you can go from no touching at all to leaning, holding, hugging, snuzzling, etc in a matter of 2 hours. What you did was a big move, and you didn't make any of the little moves required before that.

Also, using kino to judge IL is bad. Kino is just an effective way to make her feel more comfortable with you, that's all. You can't use it for gauging IL...

"and I'm not about to go digging her hands out of her crotch... girls are wierd."

If I were you, I would have! Then I would have teased her on what her hands were doing there. If you want something from a woman, you almost have to TAKE it from them. If you leave it up to them, you will never get anywhere. If you want to hold her hand, YOU have to grab it... not wait for her to give it to you.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

You would have received your answer if you would have gone for the kiss at the end of the night!!

 

[skinnydart]

just ask her "do you like me"? ...if she says "no"- well then, there u go... but if she says "yes"- then ask "how much"

I've always been under the impression from this site that it's a big no-no and really AFC to do that.

Okay, one kino move comes off as awkward. So all you did was put your arm around her shoulders, looked at her, and smiled... creeeeeeeeeepy... that would make me feel weird if I was her...

Well, I've known her for a while and on the last date did the exact same thing before I left after walking her back to her dorm, just put my arm around her shoulder and said thanks for coming, which she repsonded really positvely too, hugging me back, but then again, that good-by hug only lasted a few seconds.

 

[skinnydart]

so Skweints, putting my arm around her shoulder and smiling is "creeeeeeeeeepy" but digging her hands out of her crotch and then asking what they were doing in there is not?

 

[Kaine]

just ask her "do you like me"? ...if she says "no"- well then, there u go... but if she says "yes"- then ask "how much"

As you know, worst advice ever.

On with the show:


Sweints gives some great points. The pulling hands out of crotch thing is weird to you because it is not congruent to your character. I only disagree with his point about been unable to discern IL from Kino.

Kino needs to be congruent to your character.

I would not begin touching a girl in this way until as it was BUILT up her perception of my character as something I would naturally do and expect.

In 'general' too big a shift in your behaviour is percieved as needy, creepy and generally unattracted. You can break this rule only if you can make it SUBTLE and NATURAL.

Also want to emphasize Skweints point on baby steps.


Here is a new concept you can also try.

Invade her personal space without touching her. Here, you don't need to touch her so it can be a little safer and you can use to pace this into kino.


Do this by standing close to her, reaching for things around here. When you are sitting down, take up more space and put your arm on the couch behind her head (but don't touch). Linger a bit more then it would seem comfortable. Not only does she get a chance to eject without much embarassment but, it also gives her a chance to get used to been close to you and been in her personal space. Of course once again, do this naturally.


Based solely on this post, I'm smelling LBJF

Kaine

 

[Interpol]

You've gone on 3 dates and haven't gone for a kiss yet? FRIENDS ZONE ALERT

 

[Maximus_Decimus]

Originally posted by Mojo604
just ask her "do you like me"? ...if she says "no"- well then, there u go... but if she says "yes"- then ask "how much"

or something

Mojo604, no offense intended, but you need to do some reading up (as we all did when we were at your stage). You can start with the DJ Bible. There is also some good material at www.fastseduction.com.

Maximus_Decimus

 

[skinnydart]

I'm smelling LBJF

That's exactly why I threw in the kino, to let her know that I'm interested in her more than just a friendship level, and she didn't really pull away. I thought that if she really just wanted to be friends, my hugging her would kinda friek her out and make her pull away or at least that would have been the time where she makes it clear to me that she just wants to be friends, verbally or non-verbally.

I've known her for over a year, dated for 4 months, so I only ended up seeing her once a month, not enough to say I'm in a relationship. As for the kiss thing, I go to a really strict university where kissing is a finable offence, (I know, don't laugh). If you get caught several times, you'll end up in the deans office. People still do it, but it's more of a big deal.

I was sitting close/invading her personal space the whole evening, none of which she pulled away from.

In 'general' too big a shift in your behaviour is percieved as needy, creepy and generally unattracted.

I agree, but I had done something similar to this before...

"...on the last date did the exact same thing before I left after walking her back to her dorm, just put my arm around her shoulder and said thanks for coming, which she repsonded really positvely too, hugging me back, but then again, that good-by hug only lasted a few seconds."

 

[skinnydart]

^

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by skinnydart

I've been waiting for clear low or high interest signs to dictate my next move but I don't really get anything, no high IL or rejection.

This is why your "kino" seems unnatural and creepy. Your physicality with her is completely contingent on her approval. When you put your arm around her, then look at her and give her a half-smile, you're making a big event out of it and nonverbally asking her, "Is what I'm doing OK?"

Why wouldn't it be? When you make a big event out of touching and look for approval, then she's going to sense one of two things:

1) You don't think that women like being touched by you...which effectively disqualifies you as believing in your potential to be a good lover.

2) You think there's something "wrong" or "dirty" about the way you're touching her, which makes her feel about your touch like she would about a sleazy old man touching a 12-year-old girl.

In either case, YOU are projecting this impression.

Is there another way of gauging the interest?

Yes.

-When you touch her, tell yourself, "Women like to be touched by attractive, masculine men such as myself."

-When you touch her, touch her naturally. KNOW that there is nothing "bad" about touching a woman you are physically attracted to, as long as you don't go straight for the T&A right away. Read Gunwitch Method for a good progression of touching.

-When you touch her, don't make a big event of it. You've heard the expression, "Act as if you've been there before" with regard to sports championships...the same applies with women. As much as you love this, don't act bewildered by it. It's just part of the mating process.

-When you touch her, don't assume the fact that she pretends indifference means that there is no interest. If she is uncomfortable with a touch, she will make it known to you.

Stop worrying so hard about "gauging interest." If you're worried about whether or not she likes you, all she will sense is "worry". Women are not attracted to "worry".

 

[skinnydart]

If she is uncomfortable with a touch, she will make it known to you.

Ok, so based on that, it's safe to say what I did was not "to big of a move" as some suggested.

Thanks squirrels btw, that makes sense. Actually, the way I did it, it was just like I had been doing it all along, just as if I was doing it to my girlfriend of several years. I didn't make that big of a deal about it or anything, that's why I was confused when she runs out to go "make a quick phone call" to one of her girl friends.

 

[whistler]

Originally posted by skinnydart
Ok, so based on that, it's safe to say what I did was not "to big of a move" as some suggested.

To be blunt:

No, I think she thought it was a big, creepy move.

I'll wager on it.

She flinched; she didn't reciprocate, didn't give a confirmation, but froze instead; she got out of there asap and isolated herself by making a phone call; she mentioned what you were doing; she had her legs crossed; she occupied the space around her shoulders by playing with her hair.

How many more signs do we need to say she was incredibly uncomfortable?

When a girl is receptive to your touch and she's sitting beside you, at a minimum, she snuggles up to you a bit. (She doesn't retreat or put up a wall.)

More importantly, her being creeped out by it on the 3rd date is a sign that you're probably wasting your time with her.

I'd drop her. If she initiates anything more (and I doubt she will), then, and only then, keep going with it.

Sh!t happens. Pursue some other women. There are better ones out there.